New financial regulations for retirees: Nearly a third of expats may have to leave - but half on Facebook say they're off!

[sambum]

2 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

When I started reading the criteria it started looking promising until they got down to being fluent in Thai and being able to sing.  Well, so much for that one.  I can safely say the later two stipulations are gigantic obsticals.  Where is that poster who thinks it is easy to become a Thai citizen.   

"I can safely say the later two stipulations are gigantic obsticals."

 

I can quite understand that for someone who even has difficulty with his own language! ("obsticals"?)  ????

[Airalee]

28 minutes ago, icare999 said:

Go on flame me but theirs to many low life forang here trying to exist on little. 

That’s kinda harsh calling them lowlifes.  

 

Funny how you want them to raise the minimum to ฿1,500,000, so that even more “lowlifes” are caught offsides, yet you don’t have health insurance and claim it would be a problem if it was required.  When the day comes that health insurance is required and you are shown the door, I hope you look back on your posts and relish the karmic irony of it all.

[how241]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Why not do a simple will and register it?  Many topics on ThaiVisa about this issue.

As Sheryl posted "Even if you HAVE made arrangements, via a will executed in Thailand and clear instructions to your executors, it will be difficult,   time consuming and expensive to get the funds to your beneficiary. they have to go through the courts.  I have informally told mine to feel free to use ATM or online banking to get the funds out, but that was back when it was in an ordinary savings account. Won't be possible if I put the money in a FD."

[spidermike007]

24 minutes ago, dcnx said:

This is a very rational way to look at it.

 

I’ve always maintained a love / hate relationship with Thailand but the love far outweighed the hate. That has shifted due to many reasons and it’s time to move on. Had a great time, it’s just time to move on. Plus, for the first time the pollution is really doing a number on my health. That alone is enough to make me leave. If I don’t have my health, I have nothing.

 

When I was living in Los Angeles, I started developing horrific respiratory issues. I would wake up sneezing, and sometimes sneeze 100 times. Then hacking. Dry mouth. Tickly throat. Itchy eyes. Hard time breathing. It was miserable for a couple of years. I had a good doctor do a thorough workup on me. Everything came back negative. I asked him what it could be. He said he was 90% sure I had a severe allergy to pollution. I told him I have never had any allergies in my life. He told me we can develop allergies as we mature, and there comes a time when the lungs just say no to all of the foul air, dust, particulate matter, smoke, grime and filth. I asked him if he had any suggestions, and he said high quality air filters. I did alot of research, and found one called Austin Air Healthmate. It is used in alot of hospitals and labs. I bought one, put it near my bed, and in 48 hours all my symptoms cleared up. It was miraculous. Apparently, the lungs would regenerate overnight, when I was sleeping, and when I woke up, I was back to 80% or so. Went out into the filth, and no problems. I do not think air filters of that quality are available here. It was an industrial grade, $500 unit, in the US. You can tell how good an air filter is, by how large and complex the replacement filter is. These replacements filters cost $200. I ended up spending over $2,000 for five units, and my place was a different world. My health improved dramatically. If anyone knows of any similarly high end, high quality units, capable to filtering a massive volume of air effectively, that are available here, by all means share the info.

 

I do agree the air here has become a huge health issue, and people are dying from it. And the scary part is, that the same fabulously incompetent administration that is making life hard for thousands of good men here, with silly and draconian visa policies that change monthly, is doing nothing for the people, in the way of addressing the current health crisis. And I mean nothing. Very typical of Prayuth and the army. 

 

 

[totally thaied up]

19 minutes ago, Airalee said:

When the day comes that health insurance is required and you are shown the door, I hope you look back on your posts and relish the karmic irony of it all.

I think 75% of people from 65 years onwards would have trouble getting Health Insurance due to priors. If that happened (they made Health Insurance Mandatory), most of the expats would be forced to leave - no one would be safe unless you had money to burn or no priors. 400K is not going to cover you for very much if something major goes wrong and as I have found out recently, quite a few of my mates have not got a pot to piss in.

 

Two of my friends are leaving in June once their Visas are finished. I asked them why are they going and it came down to simply, we don't have the money to tie up now for five months and 65,000 a month is too much. Other friends of mine have now put off purchases.

 

Sure in the big theme of things this is not going to affect too many Thais unless they start to go after those on Marriage Extensions, but just to see two people in my circle of friends going home or elsewhere in Asia, whom I thought had money, made me think about things again. A lot of people living on the 'felt' in their pockets and not much else. 

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, mngmn said:

In my view, leaving just because of this latest change to the visa rules would be a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. A more balanced view could be based on a SWOT (strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats) for retiring in Thailand.  This is my view.

 

Strengths

Reasonable cost of living

Cheap rent

Good health care

City, country, beach, life styles available

Good base for travel throughout the region

Thai culture

 

Weaknesses

Can't easily work part time to supplement retirement income

Double pricing for foreigners increases cost of living

Poor environmental management

Communication problems

Non-uniform immigration requirements that depend on local 'interpretation' 

Thai culture

 

Opportunities

Can own/build property for a reasonable price

Establish a business for reasonable cost

Live in Thailand but work offshore or remotely

Learn Thai language

 

Threats

Future changes to immigration requirements (with compulsory health insurance being the showstopper for many)

Appreciation of the baht against retiree's currency

Rising cost of living

Increasing pollution leading to health problems

Future political instability

 

For me, overall the weaknesses and threats are beginning to outweigh the strengths and opportunities.

 

What do others think?

 

Good approach, but:

 

'Establish a business for reasonable cost' - It needs to be BOI for a foreigner to own it 100% and to not need four Thais for a work permit, not that reasonable, at least time and effort wise. 

'Live in Thailand but work offshore or remotely' - Not strictly legal without a work permit, see above for work permit issues.

'Can own/build property for a reasonable price' - Can't own the land for a house.

 

So that sort of shoots most of the opportunities out, turning the balance to negative. The cost of living too is subjective, if you live like a European, it's more expensive than Europe. Not every one wants to live the life of a somchai.

 

To the threats you might want to add Traffic.
 

 

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, HHTel said:

You can apply for Thai citizenship if you are working in Thailand or are married with a Thai spouse and/or have a child born in Thailand.

In all cases you will also have to fulfil the following conditions to apply for Thai citizenship:

• You must have lived in Thailand continuously, for at least five years before applying.
• Be a permanent resident.
• Be 18 years old or older and have reached legal majority in your country of origin.
• Be well behaved and have a good background (criminal record; political background; involvement with illegal drugs and, in the case of Vietnamese applicants, personal behaviour will be checked).
• Know the Thai language, including speaking, listening and understanding.
• Be able to sing the National Anthem Sanserm Phra Baramee and pass an interview in Thai conducted by government officers.

 

The law changed some years back.  The criteria is the same regardless of gender although it's not easy as suggested:

 

 

The threshold for citizenship is very high. Apparently there is a loophole for Americans, under the Amity treaty, that allows an American who is considered an "expert", in specific fields, to become a legal resident. I have a friend who did just that. He never has to get a visa again! But, he was in aeronautics, and was able to qualify as an expert specialist. 

[Airalee]

12 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

I think 75% of people from 65 years onwards would have trouble getting Health Insurance due to priors. If that happened (they made Health Insurance Mandatory), most of the expats would be forced to leave - no one would be safe unless you had money to burn or no priors. 400K is not going to cover you for very much if something major goes wrong and as I have found out recently, quite a few of my mates have not got a pot to piss in.

 

Two of my friends are leaving in June once their Visas are finished. I asked them why are they going and it came down to simply, we don't have the money to tie up now for five months and 65,000 a month is too much. Other friends of mine have now put off purchases.

 

Sure in the big theme of things this is not going to affect too many Thais unless they start to go after those on Marriage Extensions, but just to see two people in my circle of friends going home or elsewhere in Asia, whom I thought had money, made me think about things again. A lot of people living on the 'felt' in their pockets and not much else. 

I was only pointing out the irony of him calling people with insufficient funds “lowlifes” and then in a subsequent post stating that he hopes that they don’t start requiring insurance as he would have to leave also.

 

To me, a “lowlife” would be someone who is perhaps a criminal on the run from the law in their own country, now currently hiding out in Thailand.  A persons bank account isn’t an indicator of their quality or true value as a human.

[marqus12]

I have not been granted a visa recently (multi entry NON O 1 year

at the consulate) as father of a Thai citizen.

And they suggested to my girlfriend that we should get married

and deposit money into a Thai bank.

 

I treat marriage and sh*t extension as too much restriction on

my personal freedoms .  So even though I bravely endured being

a father in Thailand for 5 years, I think there will be another single mother soon !Our 7 year relationship is difficult and probably will

not survive the next unnecessary problem !

[totally thaied up]

9 minutes ago, Airalee said:

To me, a “lowlife” would be someone who is perhaps a criminal on the run from the law in their own country, now currently hiding out in Thailand.  A persons bank account isn’t an indicator of their quality or true value as a human.

I agree with that as well. A person is much more than a bank account but it seems a number has been put on it here by the Government. That is up to them now and we just follow the rules.

 

Still, I was told a story by a Thai girl this week on what some people will do to stay here for a Visa and nothing frankly shocks me now. We do have some real lowlife scumbags here that will do anything for a Visa and this is going to shake maybe a few of them from the tree but in doing so, also affect the honest ones in the process.

 

You only got to look at a lot of Facebook groups for Visas and you will see just how many are trying to circumnavigate the rules. The amount of people working here illegally is a lot and so many young guys just trying to make there stays longer, it just surprises me. 

 

 

[GinBoy2]

To me at least, one of real unknown's is what if they decide to require health insurance.

 

Even us Americans with our bizarre system, once you reach 65 and Medicare age, things actually stabilize.

 

The reverse is true in the Thai health insurance market, where past 60, 70 rates rocket for anything that actually covers you for more than a case of 'man flu'

[Peterw42]

I am surprised with the number of ex-pats that i am running into who are blissfully unaware of the financial requirements. Of course its the topic of conversation at the moment amongst ex-pat friends, acquaintances even random conversations with a guy in a queue etc. Turns out many have been doing the income letter for years, or using an agent for years etc, and are completely unaware of the financial requirements. 

A lot of the outrage etc seems to come from the belief that the 65k/800k is some sort of new requirement. 

A few people in for a shock it seems.

[stud858]

11 minutes ago, marqus12 said:

I have not been granted a visa recently (multi entry NON O 1 year

at the consulate) as father of a Thai citizen.

And they suggested to my girlfriend that we should get married

and deposit money into a Thai bank.

 

I treat marriage and sh*t extension as too much restriction on

my personal freedoms .  So even though I bravely endured being

a father in Thailand for 5 years, I think there will be another single mother soon !Our 7 year relationship is difficult and probably will

not survive the next unnecessary problem !

Quite appalling when people tell you to get married for a visa instead of the ancient tradition of love. Im glad you kept calm and didn't wack anyone.

[mngmn]

1 hour ago, dcnx said:

This is a very rational way to look at it.

 

I’ve always maintained a love / hate relationship with Thailand but the love far outweighed the hate. That has shifted due to many reasons and it’s time to move on. Had a great time, it’s just time to move on. Plus, for the first time the pollution is really doing a number on my health. That alone is enough to make me leave. If I don’t have my health, I have nothing.

We must be twins! At least in our thinking. 

[mngmn]

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

Well good list of assessments

 

Trouble is unless anyone is a psychic, and if you are buy me a lottery ticket, that's part of the problem.

 

I'm one of those that decided to hedge my bets and give up on Thailand full time. We're just snowbirds now.

 

The political climate, attitude to foreigners, it could all change on a dime, as anyone with a brain about Thailand knows.

 

It's not that cheap a place to live anymore, and without that certainty of the future, it becomes tough to commit, especially if for most of us, we are at best in our twilight years

 

 

 

The 'threats' are really risk factors and it is normal to try and find ways to mitigate them.  In this situation I agree with you that it is almost impossible.

[Sydebolle]

On 2/4/2019 at 8:05 PM, Jingthing said:

Nope. That was years ago. It's banging on our doors with barking German shepherds at 3 in the morning.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I stand corrected Sir - right on the money! 

[mngmn]

50 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Good approach, but:

 

'Establish a business for reasonable cost' - It needs to be BOI for a foreigner to own it 100% and to not need four Thais for a work permit, not that reasonable, at least time and effort wise. 

'Live in Thailand but work offshore or remotely' - Not strictly legal without a work permit, see above for work permit issues.

'Can own/build property for a reasonable price' - Can't own the land for a house.

 

So that sort of shoots most of the opportunities out, turning the balance to negative. The cost of living too is subjective, if you live like a European, it's more expensive than Europe. Not every one wants to live the life of a somchai.

 

To the threats you might want to add Traffic.
 

 

Good points. I guess if you have a burning passion to establish a beer bar with tii laak, it is way cheaper here than in US/Europe/Australia.  Insurance and rent alone would cost a small fortune over there.

 

Some of those things, such as land ownership, may become easier if you are in a long-term, stable relationship? 

 

Certainly agree that road accidents and in general lax law enforcement are serious issues.  I would add them to weaknesses as they are things that already happen rather than things that are future threats. 

[CMNightRider]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

"I can safely say the later two stipulations are gigantic obsticals."

 

I can quite understand that for someone who even has difficulty with his own language! ("obsticals"?)  ????

Lol, what are you the spelling police ????

[stud858]

10 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

Lol, what are you the spelling police ????

Seplnilg si vrey iorptmnat ot smoe. 

[HuskerDo]

8 hours ago, ginjag said:

Thanks for you stupid reply,  my cats are 16 years 10 years etc,  you are not an animal lover or you would understand what an ordeal it would be to take them on a 10 hour car ride to BKK,  then onto an aircraft for a 12 hour flight and a four hour journey to the north of England......who takes care of them during if the older ones survive the flights and journey's.   Think before you call people silly, mind your manners.

Are you kidding me? People take their animals all over the world. Many have taken theirs to Thailand when they moved there. You talk about your animals like they are 129 year old grandpa and grandma's. Animals are tougher and more adaptive than humans. They will survive the trip just fine. Looks like you are making excuses for yourself via your animals.

 

 

[bkkcanuck8]

10 minutes ago, HuskerDo said:

Are you kidding me? People take their animals all over the world. Many have taken theirs to Thailand when they moved there. You talk about your animals like they are 129 year old grandpa and grandma's. Animals are tougher and more adaptive than humans. They will survive the trip just fine. Looks like you are making excuses for yourself via your animals.

 

 

My sister takes her cats everytime she is posted to a new country (about every 3 years) (last two were Vietnam and Ukraine so not close to each other).

[ginjag]

13 minutes ago, HuskerDo said:

Are you kidding me? People take their animals all over the world. Many have taken theirs to Thailand when they moved there. You talk about your animals like they are 129 year old grandpa and grandma's. Animals are tougher and more adaptive than humans. They will survive the trip just fine. Looks like you are making excuses for yourself via your animals.

 

 

You have no idea, no love, I do not make excuses I do not need you to tell me.  I posted what I believe about the long haul and trauma...So no way do I take them to the UK.  Take your insensitive attitude to another poster...end of talking to you.  I would pay 500,000 baht for the elite to keep them here.  That's love for them.

[lamyai3]

10 hours ago, ravip said:

This fact is avoided like the plague, here at TVF (for obvious reasons, I guess)! Racism exists here in the forum more, than one find out in the streets in Thailand.

If you spoke a bit of Thai you'd realise this is nonsense, though most racism is directed at their fellow countrymen. There's very few examples on the forum of real racism and the mods would quickly deal with it if so.

 

The term Thai bashing is often used to attack people making any constructively critical assessment of things here. This is known as free speech and free thinking in the west, something the Thais (and an increasing number of forum posters) could sorely benefit from. 

[lamyai3]

9 hours ago, yogi100 said:

As he says he's not too worried about his own future as he's meant to have a very well paid position lined up back in the UK as a BBC news presenter.

I understand Eastenders is very keen to audition him for the role of Frank Butcher's long lost nephew. 

[ocddave]

39 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

My sister takes her cats everytime she is posted to a new country (about every 3 years) (last two were Vietnam and Ukraine so not close to each other).

Brought my dog with me when I came here as well, cost me about 130,000 baht from the East Coast of the US to here. That included delivering him to my townhouse, and 2.5 weeks boarding in the US while I setup everything here (new housing/etc).

[CMNightRider]

59 minutes ago, HuskerDo said:

Are you kidding me? People take their animals all over the world. Many have taken theirs to Thailand when they moved there. You talk about your animals like they are 129 year old grandpa and grandma's. Animals are tougher and more adaptive than humans. They will survive the trip just fine. Looks like you are making excuses for yourself via your animals.

 

 

A lot of pets die on long flights and some countries want them quarantined.  Why are you harassing this person over their pets. ????

[HHTel]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The threshold for citizenship is very high. Apparently there is a loophole for Americans, under the Amity treaty, that allows an American who is considered an "expert", in specific fields, to become a legal resident. I have a friend who did just that. He never has to get a visa again! But, he was in aeronautics, and was able to qualify as an expert specialist. 

As far as I'm aware, the Treaty of Amity lapsed (expired) in 2005.

[ginjag]

10 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

A lot of pets die on long flights and some countries want them quarantined.  Why are you harassing this person over their pets. ????

He is harassing me because he cannot contribute to the topic, and needs to argue other peoples business........I understand each of the 5 pets I have and would never put them through a journey from Udon to Manchester.

[dontoearth]

8 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Even if you HAVE made arrangements, via a will executed in Thailand and clear instructions to your executors, it will be difficult,   time consuming and expensive to get the funds to your beneficiary. they have to go through the courts.  I have informally told mine to feel free to use ATM or online banking to get the funds out, but that was back when it was in an ordinary savings account. Won't be possible if I put the money in a FD.

 

I would be a lot happier with this new rule if this were not the case. i.e. if it were possible to designate a "payable on death" clause for the funds.

 

If only a  Thai bank would pick up on this and develops a banking product aimed specifically for expat retirees, with features like:

 

- competitive interest rate with options for say 3, 5 and 10 year fixed deposit

- automatic issuance of letter for immigration (you provide them with the date needed)

-"payable on death" option, in which case on presentation of death certificate bank will directly release the funds to the beneficiary you indicated, no need to go to court

- loans available against the deposit as collateral (this would be very helpful for those for whom these monies represent all or most of their emergency funds).

 

Arrangements like that would make parking the money much more palatable. At least then it could be used for your cremation/burial expenses and provide a source of quick cash in an emergency without losing your extension.  As it currently stands it does none of those things and unless you decide to leave Thailand you can't use it for anything.

     I wouldn't hold my breath!  This is just about what I thought would happen.  Money dangled around until it evaporates.

[sandmonster]

On 2/4/2019 at 6:16 AM, farangx said:

Chinese numbers are not big yet.  If it becomes huge which IMO is unlikely, the rules will adapt.

I think ferang totally underestimate the numbers of Chinese retirees here. "They all look the same" innit ????

 

Can't speak for all of Thailand, but anecdotal evidence from my trip to CM IM last month. Was having a pleasant chat to the IO who was dealing with my Non Imm O for retirement... how many do you process a day etc etc, where are retirees from etc etc.  She said about 50% of cases from China. I would hazard a guess the retirees started coming in huge numbers around 2012-13 after that movie prompted them to visit, followed by them buying condos in bulk. Since China doesn't have much of a welfare state or pension schemes, the average Chinese retiree here will be cash rich and won't be worried about 800K baht on deposit.