Using the transfer-B65k-each-month method, and repatriating the funds

[JLCrab]

9 minutes ago, Pib said:

Just pointing out how Christophers200 post at the top was incorrect.....about it being impossible....leaving a trail....the withdrawal(s) from your account to send back would appear as any other withdrawal/transfer you are doing to pay day-to-day living costs.

Sure and it is the nature of the beast that, if they suspect that you are doing something they don't want you to do, it will be up to you to prove that you aren't rather than them having to prove that you are.

 

... just as it is when a Thai citizen goes to the US Embassy - Bangkok for a visa to travel to the US of A.

Edited February 6, 2019 by JLCrab

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Sure and it is the nature of the beast that, if they suspect that you are doing something they don't want you to do, it will be up to you to prove that you aren't rather them them having to prove that you are.

I expect the chances of that occurring are very low.  It would probably be the same risk level as to when people would walk in with only an embassy letter saying they earned X-amount and then the IO asked for additional proof to back up the letter.  Happens sometimes at some offices but not very often considering all the extensions processed.   

 

Heck, they can always ask folks who use the Bt800K deposit method when the balance doesn't really change or just basically increases every year due to interest earned and no to few withdrawals ever occurring.  I've been using that method for around 8 to 9 years now...have never been asked to show how I'm supporting myself/paying day-to-day bills...never been asked why there are no or only a few withdrawals for small amounts each year for that Bt800K account.

 

Your results may vary.   Risk level will no doubt vary from immigration office to office.....person to person.

[JLCrab]

10 minutes ago, Pib said:

I expect the chances of that occurring are very low.

It is until it isn't. But there certainly has been enough discussion on here as to how to make it look like you are not doing what you are actually doing.

Edited February 6, 2019 by JLCrab

[Kenny202]

4 hours ago, Christophers200 said:

It is impossible to recycle the same 65K as each transfer involves fees which are deducted. The continual repatriation of cash would also show on Thai bank statements/account books which would prompt questions about what was being used to support daily living costs.

Transfer the money to another Thai bank account or withdraw the cash as if you were living off it. Of course you wouldn't show recycled transactions in the same account. If you want to send anything back home transfer it from your other Thai account and transfer from there. Its not rocket surgery. In any case based on what we know now you're not doing anything wrong. "Why have you withdrawn this cash every month sir?" Living expenses.

 

I think only the desperado's will consider recycling the funds anyway and it's not going to be widespread. Pointless debating it really particularly as we don't know if there will be any conditions to the 65k transfers. Certainly not a thing you would do if you had even a modest amount of money. But it is an option. Nothing wrong with just bringing the 65k in every month and living off it. I'd rather do that than have a large sum sitting over here doing nothing.

[wpcoe]

3 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Its not rocket surgery.

 

????  I love that statement!

 

Thanks to the many folks who have made some very interesting comments and suggestions.  As someone else alluded to above, I don't think we should speak publicly very much about potential workarounds, but I think I've enough ideas now on how to make the $65k/month method work.

[Kenny202]

4 hours ago, wpcoe said:

 

????  I love that statement!

 

Thanks to the many folks who have made some very interesting comments and suggestions.  As someone else alluded to above, I don't think we should speak publicly very much about potential workarounds, but I think I've enough ideas now on how to make the $65k/month method work.

And a thread with no backbiting or points scoring. Well done ????

 

[JLCrab]

5 hours ago, wpcoe said:

As someone else alluded to above, I don't think we should speak publicly very much about potential workarounds,

So why would you need a workaround to workaround something that does not need a workaround especially as, if there is need of a workaround, it would be up to you to show that there is not a workaround being used to work around something needing a workaround rather than the IMM folks having to prove there was a workaround being used to workaround something that the expat thinks needs a workaround?

Edited February 6, 2019 by JLCrab

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

So why would you need a workaround to workaround something that does not need a workaround especially as, if there is need of a workaround, it would be up to you to show that there is not a workaround being used to work around something needing a workaround rather than the IMM folks having to prove there was a workaround being used to workaround something that the expat thinks needs a workaround?

Don't take the bait 5555

[mikebell]

20 hours ago, wgdanson said:

To transfer £1616 today via Transferwise  (= Bht 65,005.50) will cost £10.82 which x 12 = £130 or about Bht 5200. Where's your 13440 from please.

Bank letter, Bht 100, photo copies??? Bht 5 or 10 each, unless you do them yourself.

My apologies - The latest transfer fee was 28.84 GBP.  I see now it was for 5K UKP.  Doing it monthly would be cheaper (your figure.)  Can't remember how much I paid for an embassy letter annually; probably not far short of your 5200 annual figure.

Thank you, I feel happier already.  My visa renewal is due in May.  I obtained an Embassy letter late December so if this is honoured at Jomtien I am OK for this year.  It means I will have to start my monthly transfers then so as to comply in 2020.

[Henryford]

On 2/5/2019 at 10:30 PM, Lacessit said:

If the OP can save 40,000 baht/month out of the 65,000 baht/month, good luck to him. Given the strength of the Thai baht, IMHO he would be better off leaving it here, or buying gold as a currency hedge. Fees and exchange rates transferring back and forth are going to eat up some of the funds, and Immigration officers are not idiots. The money is supposed to be spent here, not repatriated. That would raise red flags with them. 

If you just withdrew the 65k each month but used some of the cash to send back via say Dee Money how would Immigration know how the money was used? You could have spent it here in a bar.

[mikebell]

21 hours ago, SooKee said:

 

I might be missing something here but how do you get 13,440 baht in transfer fees from TW at 65k baht per month? A single transfer currently would be £10.34. For 12 transfers it would be under 5,000 baht at current rates.


Posted using Tapatalk

 

True.  My estimate was based on a recent transfer of 5K UKP.  I have replied at length on page 7.

Edited February 7, 2019 by mikebell
omission.

[cmarshall]

21 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Most countries would provide a decent notice period  of such changes and/or a grandfathering-clause for those who were encouraged to "retire" here under an existing set of rules.

 

I am unaware of any Thai govt program to encourage retirement here.  Can you provide an example?  Did you speak personally with a Thai retirement recruiter before arriving?

 

Some of us knew, and all of us should have, that in settling here we were giving up citizenship rights and could not reasonably expect stability.

[Kenny202]

3 hours ago, Henryford said:

If you just withdrew the 65k each month but used some of the cash to send back via say Dee Money how would Immigration know how the money was used? You could have spent it here in a bar.

Buy gold currency as a hedge? What a bad investment that would be. At best you'd be lucky to get your money back. I've been watching gold for the last three years and if anything it has gone down. Better off investing back home or simply put the money in the bank.

[Kenny202]

2 hours ago, cmarshall said:

I am unaware of any Thai govt program to encourage retirement here.  Can you provide an example?  Did you speak personally with a Thai retirement recruiter before arriving?

 

Some of us knew, and all of us should have, that in settling here we were giving up citizenship rights and could not reasonably expect stability.

I don't know why anyone should expect encouragement to retire here. I'm not even sure it is in Thailand's advantage? Not to the extent some people seem to think Thailand is living off the back of farangs. Even Tourism Europeans make up a very small percentage compared to say Chinese. I think they do however make it reasonably easy to live here retired or otherwise and generally I feel more than welcome. Unlike the dissing most foreigners receive back in Australia. Really I don't know that we have anything to complain about.

 

As far as stability I would agree. I would never invest more here than I could afford to lose as the saying goes.

[Kenny202]

Was talking to a friend this morning who has a very close contact in the provincial immigration and she said nothing yet is set in stone re new changes and even if they are implemented they are far from finished. The documents touted around so far are just the broad strokes. As far as they are concerned everything as it is now until further notice. The mail from her is always spot on 

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Was talking to a friend this morning who has a very close contact in the provincial immigration and she said nothing yet is set in stone re new changes and even if they are implemented they are far from finished. The documents touted around so far are just the broad strokes. As far as they are concerned everything as it is now until further notice. The mail from her is always spot on 

Hilarious considering we have multiple reports already (before the effective date) of expats being told they are under the new rules staring NOW. 

[moe666]

Why not leave the money in Thailand and open a Brokerage account here to invest the money. I get a good sum in yearly dividends I spend on various things, or just start spending more.

[Sheryl]

16 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Transfer the money to another Thai bank account or withdraw the cash as if you were living off it. Of course you wouldn't show recycled transactions in the same account. If you want to send anything back home transfer it from your other Thai account and transfer from there. Its not rocket surgery. In any case based on what we know now you're not doing anything wrong. "Why have you withdrawn this cash every month sir?" Living expenses.

 

I think only the desperado's will consider recycling the funds anyway and it's not going to be widespread. Pointless debating it really particularly as we don't know if there will be any conditions to the 65k transfers. Certainly not a thing you would do if you had even a modest amount of money. But it is an option. Nothing wrong with just bringing the 65k in every month and living off it. I'd rather do that than have a large sum sitting over here doing nothing.

What bother with that if using Dee Money when transfers will show up anyhow as domestic bill payment?

 

i don't think it is only "desperados" who have reason to want to send some of the money back.  65k a month is more than the average SS income for an American and more than the average government pension in many other countries, especially at current exchange rates. Quite probable that there are many whose total income is not much more than 65K and that they have bills they need to pay back home. Nothing wrong with that.

 

People needing to repatriate almost all of it in order to fund the next transfer because their actual income is way below 65K - yes, that's a desperate situation and not a very good solution to it either as their limited funds will eventually be eroded by transfer fees and currency exchanges. 

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, moe666 said:

or just start spending more.

Well there's a solution to many people's problems I never considered.

[Kenny202]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Hilarious considering we have multiple reports already (before the effective date) of expats being told they are under the new rules staring NOW. 

That is hilarious. How can they be in effect now? Maybe under the interpretation of an officer or office. Do you just throw out these rhetorical one liners (that mean nothing) to score imaginary points or sound intelligent?

Edited February 8, 2019 by Kenny202

[jacko45k]

7 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

That is hilarious. How can they be in effect now? Maybe under the interpretation of an officer or office. Do you just throw out these rhetorical one liners (that mean nothing) to score imaginary points or sound intelligent?

Well perhaps they aren't because you say so. I just know someone who has been told to ensure he keeps his 800k there for 3 more months and suggested they want to see it when he does his next 90 days. A rogue office, maybe, does he need to comply, I suggest yes.

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

That is hilarious. How can they be in effect now? Maybe under the interpretation of an officer or office. Do you just throw out these rhetorical one liners (that mean nothing) to score imaginary points or sound intelligent?

You may find current thread an interesting read.  "Retirement extensions Chiang Rai" seems to indicate some offices have picked up new regs with gusto

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

That is hilarious. How can they be in effect now? Maybe under the interpretation of an officer or office. Do you just throw out these rhetorical one liners (that mean nothing) to score imaginary points or sound intelligent?

I made that point to underline the reality that this recent set of police reports is creating very serious problems for many expats, and I'm sure for a good portion, the consequences will be devastating. I don't think this situation should be glossed over or sugar coated. It is real. 

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

You may find current thread an interesting read.  "Retirement extensions Chiang Rai" seems to indicate some offices have picked up new regs with gusto

Harsh realities aren't what the Pollyanna brigade wants to here. Nothing has changed. The new police orders are but a trifle. There is no confusion. All officers know exactly how to enforce things, they all do it all the same, and this has been clearly communicated to all expats. Nobody will end up as an illegal in the middle of a current extension for paying an emergency medical bill, nobody will be forced to give away their condo while fleeing the country under duress on short notice, happy happy joy joy!

Edited February 8, 2019 by Jingthing

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Nobody will end up as an illegal in the middle of a current extension for paying an emergency medical bill, nobody will be forced to give away their condo while fleeing the country under duress on short notice, happy happy joy joy!

Are you for real?

 

I just noticed your tagline..... "enjoy each miserable day"

Misery loves company. 

Edited February 8, 2019 by Kenny202

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Are you for real?

 

I just noticed your tagline..... "enjoy each miserable day"

Misery loves company. 

I think I am for real. I'll leave the cherry coating and denial to others that are happy to play that role. 

[wpcoe]

Another angle I hadn't thought of is how these changes will be embraced by retirees who are only part-year residents of Thailand.  e.g. Someone who comes here six months each year, Oct-Mar.  Will they want to transfer B65k each and every month to Thailand?  Will they want to keep B400k on ice in a Thailand bank account year-round, and an additional B400k for five more months, just to keep a part-time residency?

 

Every time I've had a big transfer to Bangkok Bank from overseas in USD, I've received a phone call from their main office asking if I wanted to convert and deposit it immediately.  I've been under the impression that they are calling to see if I wanted the funds converted/deposited at today's rate or to wait for a more favorable rate.  What do they do with transfers that arrive while the account holder is overseas and doesn't have global roaming active and their Thai SIM in their mobile phone?

 

 

[stevemac]

 
Every time I've had a big transfer to Bangkok Bank from overseas in USD, I've received a phone call from their main office asking if I wanted to convert and deposit it immediately.  I've been under the impression that they are calling to see if I wanted the funds converted/deposited at today's rate or to wait for a more favorable rate.  What do they do with transfers that arrive while the account holder is overseas and doesn't have global roaming active and their Thai SIM in their mobile phone?
 
 

I transfer money from the UK using the Post Office International Transfer service. There are live transfer rates on screen and you accept it at that rate or wait for better. It is transferred in Thai Baht. You can choose a given amount of pounds or a given amount of Baht and it does the calculation back to pounds. I then do a bank transfer to Post office. All very easy once set up. I'm sure there'll be equivalent systems elsewhere. Process takes about one week end to end. Dont get any phone calls.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[jacko45k]

8 hours ago, stevemac said:

 

 

I transfer money from the UK using the Post Office International Transfer service. There are live transfer rates on screen and you accept it at that rate or wait for better. It is transferred in Thai Baht. You can choose a given amount of pounds or a given amount of Baht and it does the calculation back to pounds. I then do a bank transfer to Post office. All very easy once set up. I'm sure there'll be equivalent systems elsewhere. Process takes about one week end to end. Dont get any phone calls.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

Most people shy away from services where the money is transferred in Thai Baht as historically the UK has offered  far inferior rates than Thailand. So how do  these rates compare? As to equivalent systems it all sounds similar to Transferwise except taking 3-4 times longer for the money to make it. 

Edited March 22, 2019 by jacko45k

[Aceman80]

20 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Most people shy away from services where the money is transferred in Thai Baht as historically the UK has offered  far inferior rates than Thailand. So how do  these rates compare? As to equivalent systems it all sounds similar to Transferwise except taking 3-4 times longer for the money to make it. 

Problem with TW is that their money is already in Thailand. It just shows bank transfer from thai account to another in receipt.

By the way, very good business idea(TW).

Immigration needs proof that money comes from outside Thailand.

 

When i transfer money from europe to thai bank,i usually do it before high season when baht is weakest/€, TW is little bit more cheaper than my bank/kasikorn but i have proof that money comes from outside Thailand and takes 3 days with fee 6,9€ from my bank and kasikorn takes 500thb.