New retirement extension rules forces expat, 90, to leave Thailand

[oldrunner]

Other than wanting to fleece those who have settled in Thailand, the rules about how much money must be in the bank for how long, etc..is malarky. If you don't like what is going on, hold your breath, it will change next week.

[alanso]

In the beginning the new rules made me angry. Then an educated Thai person said to me: "Where is the difference when I want to go to your country? " The Netherlands in this case. And it is true, I complained about new rules in Thailand while Europe is much more difficult for Thai then the Thai is for people  from Europe. In the Netherlands they can even refuse a Thai having a visa without giving a reason. So we can complain but our goverments are not any different they are even worse.

[ttrd]

6 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Without more details, this article is just worthless 

Everyone on Retirement Extension today was supposed to already have 65k/monthly or 800k in bank,

so why exactly can't he stay anymore after these rather small changes in rules ? 

It can be that he previously has used the agents to provide an fictive bank statement for 800k and that it will be difficult to prove the same amount 3 months after he got the visa and as well 400k during the remaining 9 months.

[JayBird]

They may simplify it: 800k govt bond. Can not touch. As long as you no touch you can stay.

[davidstipek]

Okay as I stated yesterday in another post about  changes. They do not exist, at least not as yet! I went yesterday to Main Immigration Office, next to Airport in Chiang Mai. for the sole purpose of getting the correct information on this at this time... "So Called Rumor".

 

Director here said this is not true.. They have not yet, as of Feb. 5th 2019 and this includes Every Immigration Office in Thailand. "Have not yet received any orders" to change any of the Rules that have been in place and being still currently being used in the regards to Funds required for Expats who wish to retire or renew their current Visa Standing. "PERIOD!"

 

"None of these Rules have changed since everyone's last Visa Application or Renewal

 

There is no order referring to any funds remaining in account after Visa is issued. There is no order about getting deposits recorded in Bank Book monthly. period! Only thing that is required is the funds need to be in Account 90 days prior to visa renewal date, or the in-place rules regarding the mix matching of income and Bank funds to match (65K monthly) the stated amount in rules now in place... No changes here either, same as last year!

 

The only thing I found that had changed was the 90 day report paperwork that is required!

 

All that is needed is the Form filled out (get the correct one... My stack of old one's have changed. Something was changed on the form) and the previous 90 day report slip they stapled in the back of your Passport the last time you visited there! Took me exactly 4 minutes to do my 90 day reporting!! I spent 25 minutes with Chiang Mai's Director of Immigration... I am in either a walker or wheel chair... so my wife dropped me off at front door. Took 1 minute 45 seconds to get my Q... then at desk #1 it took 2 minutes 15 seconds. I was done before my Wife parked car... She only had to back in a slot in front of the door... I was talking to Director when she came waltzing in...

 

So now 90 Day Reporting is just that... Reporting that you are still here and their Records regarding your stay in the "Kingdom" are all current and correct. Nothing more... 

 

So Bob... Do your renewal of your retirement Visa in Chiang Mai.... And a word to the wise (I was informed...) that either someone is overstepping the required rules... or just passing around a Bias Rumor!

 

Hope this settles your Nerves "Bob"!

David 

Edited February 6, 2019 by davidstipek

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, JayBird said:

Would be interesting if they got rid of retirement visas and pointed everyone to Thailand elite.

Would solve a lot of their problems and paperwork.

Could be another trap if they did that. Think about it. 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Originally, yes, without the cheap women none of us would have come here.

Now tell me you ain't banging a local lady?

How repulsive.

 

 

[marcusarelus]

54 minutes ago, peterb17 said:

Personally I have a suspicion the whole income letter fiasco was do with Americans- all they had to is stand there ( lie through their teeth) and declare an income. No checks whatsoever. 

At the British embassy they required copies of your bank statements and income letter clearly stated that the information was supported by bank statements 

 

Of course I may be wrong , but I doubt it. I think you are correct- it’s always the few rotten apples that make things more difficult for the rest of us. 

I think it was the Brits because they were the first ones to pull the plug. 

[Jingthing]

Just now, davidstipek said:

Okay as I stated yesterday in another post about these so-called rules. They do not exist, as least not as yet! I went yesterday to Main Immigration Office, next to Airport in Chiang Mai. for the sole purpose of getting the correct information on this at this time... "So Called Rumor".

 

Director here said this is not true.. They have not yet, and this includes Every Immigration Office in Thailand. "Have not yet received any orders" to change the rules that have been in place and being still used in the regards to Funds required for Expats who wish to retire or renew their current Visa Standing.

 

There is no order referring to any funds remaining in account after Visa is issued. There is noorder about getting deposits recorded in Bank Book monthly. period! Only thing that is required is the funds need to be in Account 90 days prior to visa renewal date, or the in-place rules regarding the mix matching of income and Bank funds to match the stated amount in rules now in place... No changes here either

 

The only thing I found that had changed was the 90 day report paperwork!

 

All that is needed is the Form filled out (get the correct one... My stack of old one have changed something) and the previous 90 day report slip they stapled in the back of your Passport the last time you visited there! Took me exactly 4 minutes to do my 90 day reporting!! I spent 25 minutes with Chiang Mai's Director of Immigration... I am in either a walker or wheel chair... so my wife dropped me off at front door. Took 1 minute 45 seconds to get my Q... then at desk #1 it took 2 minutes 15 seconds. I was done before my Wife parked car... She only had to back in a slot in front of the door... I was talking to Director when she came waltzing in...

 

So Bob... Do you renewal of retirement Visa in Chiang Mai.... And a word to the wise (I was informed...) that either someone is overstepping the required rules... or just passing around a Bias Rumor!

 

Hope this settles your Nerves "Bob"!

David 

Come back in a month or two with the same ostrich head in the sand bull. 

[CMNightRider]

3 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

I just find it amusing how there's this coterie of posters on these threads who keep saying "if you can't afford the 800K, go home", as if they are members of a higher social strata. Before continuing, trust me, I can easily meet this requirement many fold over.

 

I just want to point out that having a bonafide 800K in a Thai bank in no way guarantees that you are going to spend any more in Thailand than someone who circumvented the rules to make it appear that they do.  For example, how about a 66 yo retiree who came to Thailand last year, bought a 2 mm baht condo (for more than he originally planned to spend), and figured that he could scrape by with his remaining savings until he started collecting a 65K SS payment at age 70. The new requirement that 400K remain permanently on deposit effectively removes $12.5K from his available cash for the next 4 years so he will be forced to spend less. Is that person a "less desirable" retiree than someone who has 800K on deposit, but rents a room for 4K baht/month and lives on 10,000 baht/month? I don't think so.

 

And how about guys who had no problem meeting the income requirements previously but got hit with sudden devaluations of their home currencies? Yes, they should have planned for this contingency, but not everyone has that level of financial sophistication.

 

Big Joke and Co's forte may be rounding up overstayers and closing loopholes, but I don't sense they have a clue about economic behavior.

 

For example, if there's a demographic who found ways to circumvent immigration rules, they're probably going to find a way to continue doing so - just paying more to unscrupulous agents and immigration officers in the process. These people will only have less money to spend as a result.

 

Those who can meet the requirement will also have less money for consumption, because 800K is tied up for 5 months and 400K is tied up year round. Because this is "dead money" it will have an impact on the "wealth effect", which says that the more money a person has the more likely they will spend money.

 

And everyone is now going to have to start considering the possibility that Thailand is planning to make retirement here progressively more difficult than in the past by imposing more and more restrictions or requirements. In the same way as uncertainty about whether social security will be available in the future causes people to hold back on consumption, fears about having to repatriate voluntarily or involuntarily because of Thai immigration changes is likely to cause people to cut back on consumption as well.

 

These changes may look to Thai immigration like they are going to improve the consumption patterns of retirees here, but it may end up having the exact opposite effect of inhibiting consumption based on uncertainty about the future.

Great post on how many expats could and will be effected by different possible scenarios.  I feel for the people who have just purchased nice condos who find themselves unable to deposit money in a Thai bank.

 

I'll guarantee immigration doesn't care how much foreign money these people had sent over to Thailand to purchase these condos.  I'm sure to some of these people, this is some sort of amusement for them, like it is for some of these pompous posters agreeing with what immigration is doing. ????

 

 

 

 

[sambum]

7 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Absolute maudlin rubbish.

What is - the fact that "Don" has to go "home"? Or the fact that money is more welcome than the owners of it?

[ginjag]

1 minute ago, alanso said:

In the beginning the new rules made me angry. Then an educated Thai person said to me: "Where is the difference when I want to go to your country? " The Netherlands in this case. And it is true, I complained about new rules in Thailand while Europe is much more difficult for Thai then the Thai is for people  from Europe. In the Netherlands they can even refuse a Thai having a visa without giving a reason. So we can complain but our goverments are not any different they are even worse.

Anyone can row ashore in the UK and get housing,  benefits.  BUT you missed one point most do not change the goalposts every month.

[ZeVonderBearz]

7 hours ago, jmd8800 said:

Ya know.... the west does this too:

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/man-deported-separated-wife-home-office-ill/

I'm glad you posted a story about a white westerner rather than those caught up in the windrush scandal. 

[stanleycoin]

33 minutes ago, alanso said:

In the beginning the new rules made me angry. Then an educated Thai person said to me: "Where is the difference when I want to go to your country? " The Netherlands in this case. And it is true, I complained about new rules in Thailand while Europe is much more difficult for Thai then the Thai is for people  from Europe. In the Netherlands they can even refuse a Thai having a visa without giving a reason. So we can complain but our goverments are not any different they are even worse.

Mate , what does the average Thai going to Europe bring to the table ?

          3 illegitimate children and no money.

          What does the average ex pat going to Thailand bring to the table ?

          Loads of money into Thailand.

          ( but now its not enough for the Thais)

 

See,  it's a little bit different. 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by stanleycoin

[sambum]

6 minutes ago, alanso said:

In the beginning the new rules made me angry. Then an educated Thai person said to me: "Where is the difference when I want to go to your country? " The Netherlands in this case. And it is true, I complained about new rules in Thailand while Europe is much more difficult for Thai then the Thai is for people  from Europe. In the Netherlands they can even refuse a Thai having a visa without giving a reason. So we can complain but our goverments are not any different they are even worse.

 "In the Netherlands they can even refuse a Thai having a visa without giving a reason"

 

And I've seen the same happen here!

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Sonhia said:

Thailand transliterated simply means land of the free, but for many falang who have resided within the Kingdom, they know far too well the real truths:

I think you mean translated, and anyway it doesn't. It means the land of the people.

Similar to pat Thai, the food of the people, invented by a nationalistic leader called Paw Piboonsongkram in the 30s, when it was the fashion around the world.

 

I have lived here for many years and find it has much, much more freedom than my own country, Scotland.

 

I've even applied for naturalization, which is easier than most countries, especially now under the current government.

[legend49]

No sympathy at 90 he should have planned his retirement better.

I have just wasted 4 hours at CNX IO trying to renew my yearly extension and obtain a multi entry permit. Why 4 hours I ask after so many TV people reported it was a lot better than the old office. The 3 separate expats in front of me refused to accept the new banking rules and held up the whole  renewal department with useless arguments. So its back again tomorrow I just hope that dodgy Yank agent and his 3 Trump colleagues dont show again. Call it unity Donald in todays speech; I call it anarchy there are 4 of your friends you can take back home.

[SenorProletariat]

Shameful. Big Joke and his cronies should hang their heads in shame with this one.

 

Poor old chap - and I thought the elderly were highly respected in Thai society?

 

Mustn't apply to foreigners then.

 

SP.

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, stanleycoin said:

Mate , what does the average Thai going to Europe bring to the table ?

          What doe the average ex pat going to Thailand bring to the table ?

See its a little bit different.

 

Ps Don't ask so called educated Thai's questions like that.

 

 

The average Thai can't retire to Europe.

Can't you see the hypocrisy?

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Khaeng Mak said:

Don

 

If you are a member could you please post the details of your situation here.

Come on, over 90s don't post here. It's for young people over 50.

[ttrd]

9 minutes ago, davidstipek said:

Okay as I stated yesterday in another post about these so-called rules. They do not exist, as least not as yet! I went yesterday to Main Immigration Office, next to Airport in Chiang Mai. for the sole purpose of getting the correct information on this at this time... "So Called Rumor".

 

Director here said this is not true.. They have not yet, and this includes Every Immigration Office in Thailand. "Have not yet received any orders" to change the rules that have been in place and being still used in the regards to Funds required for Expats who wish to retire or renew their current Visa Standing.

 

There is no order referring to any funds remaining in account after Visa is issued. There is noorder about getting deposits recorded in Bank Book monthly. period! Only thing that is required is the funds need to be in Account 90 days prior to visa renewal date, or the in-place rules regarding the mix matching of income and Bank funds to match the stated amount in rules now in place... No changes here either

 

The only thing I found that had changed was the 90 day report paperwork!

 

All that is needed is the Form filled out (get the correct one... My stack of old one have changed something) and the previous 90 day report slip they stapled in the back of your Passport the last time you visited there! Took me exactly 4 minutes to do my 90 day reporting!! I spent 25 minutes with Chiang Mai's Director of Immigration... I am in either a walker or wheel chair... so my wife dropped me off at front door. Took 1 minute 45 seconds to get my Q... then at desk #1 it took 2 minutes 15 seconds. I was done before my Wife parked car... She only had to back in a slot in front of the door... I was talking to Director when she came waltzing in...

 

So Bob... Do you renewal of retirement Visa in Chiang Mai.... And a word to the wise (I was informed...) that either someone is overstepping the required rules... or just passing around a Bias Rumor!

 

Hope this settles your Nerves "Bob"!

David 

What to expect when the new rule is announced to be in force from 1st of March ....

 

When this is said I have my doubts that it will be carried out how it originally was presented - hopefully we know more when additional 3 weeks has passed ....

[crazygreg44]

6 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

 Now he frantically trying to change his Retirement Visa to a Marriage Visa, which allows for a combined income of husband and wife.  He's a nice guy, and I wish him luck as, according to him, he has nothing to go back to in the States. 

the marriage extension does not allow any combination method. It is either 400,000 in husband's bank account or 40,000 per month from abroad (for 12 months)

[davidstipek]

As a further Note: Seems that when Reporters and Newspaper reporting needs to check and confirm when they are posed with this "Style Story". 

 

This would add a huge amount  of Credibility to Everyone involved!

 

As reported reporter just added more fuel to the already Burning Fire! His or Her  Publisher did nothing to calm the Storm either.

 

Both have just added to the turmoil... Period!

[Danthai]

Don't know what agents you all use or know about. The the agent I used a few times was for accomplishing paperwork and getting appointment. Sometimes easier to have all paperwork done properly than be denied visa and return again with this form or that form. All times very professional, my qualifications all legal, and no money was paid out to IO. It not right to lump all agents into same basket, yet many of you want to blame the agents for new rules. Over the many years I have lived here I have come across many here that cheat the system without ever using agents. No I don't work for an agent! 

[DrTuner]

2 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

It's still a very desirable place to come, visit, work, live and retire. 

There will still be newcomers, sure. Probably in smaller numbers and from different countries than before but still.

 

The real problem for those already long term here is the perception of a steady and relentless decline. It's like death by a thousand cuts. Newbies won't start feeling it until after a few years, when they have constructed a new frame of reference and then they'll be swarming out and cursing under their breath. Thais are really good at duping people in and extracting the cash out, have to give credit to them.

 

So the advice to n00bs: look elsewhere, don't bother with Thailand. 

[Danthai]

3 hours ago, garyk said:

After reading threw many threads here. Personally I think the U.S., SS administration should start cutting benefits for people retiring to Thailand. Basically treating them as Foreigners having worked in the US, and returning home to collect US benefits. That should help shore up the SS monies, and deter retirement in Thailand.

Of course anyone with a current extension of stay would be grandfathered in, but it would essentially stop all people from considering Thailand as a retirement destination, even more that the new rules put in place by Thailand. 

 

BS

[sambum]

33 minutes ago, davidstipek said:

 

33 minutes ago, davidstipek said:

Okay as I stated yesterday in another post about  changes. They do not exist, at least not as yet! I went yesterday to Main Immigration Office, next to Airport in Chiang Mai. for the sole purpose of getting the correct information on this at this time... "So Called Rumor".

 

Director here said this is not true.. They have not yet, as of Feb. 5th 2019 and this includes Every Immigration Office in Thailand. "Have not yet received any orders" to change any of the Rules that have been in place and being still currently being used in the regards to Funds required for Expats who wish to retire or renew their current Visa Standing. "PERIOD!"

 

"None of these Rules have changed since everyone's last Visa Application or Renewal

 

There is no order referring to any funds remaining in account after Visa is issued. There is no order about getting deposits recorded in Bank Book monthly. period! Only thing that is required is the funds need to be in Account 90 days prior to visa renewal date, or the in-place rules regarding the mix matching of income and Bank funds to match (65K monthly) the stated amount in rules now in place... No changes here either, same as last year!

 

The only thing I found that had changed was the 90 day report paperwork that is required!

 

All that is needed is the Form filled out (get the correct one... My stack of old one's have changed. Something was changed on the form) and the previous 90 day report slip they stapled in the back of your Passport the last time you visited there! Took me exactly 4 minutes to do my 90 day reporting!! I spent 25 minutes with Chiang Mai's Director of Immigration... I am in either a walker or wheel chair... so my wife dropped me off at front door. Took 1 minute 45 seconds to get my Q... then at desk #1 it took 2 minutes 15 seconds. I was done before my Wife parked car... She only had to back in a slot in front of the door... I was talking to Director when she came waltzing in...

 

So now 90 Day Reporting is just that... Reporting that you are still here and their Records regarding your stay in the "Kingdom" are all current and correct. Nothing more... 

 

So Bob... Do your renewal of your retirement Visa in Chiang Mai.... And a word to the wise (I was informed...) that either someone is overstepping the required rules... or just passing around a Bias Rumor!

 

Hope this settles your Nerves "Bob"!

David 

"Posted Thursday at 07:13 PM

CONFIRMED: Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted"

 

Just what part of the word "CONFIRMED" do you not understand? Suggest you also read the attached  police order No. 35/2561 from January 2019 for details of this "So Called Rumor".

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by sambum

[balo]

He can still use an agent . Only 15k 

[alzack]

7 hours ago, Soupdragon said:

Has anyone here actually been made to feel they are welcome in Thailand by Immigration Officials ???

YES every year for 20 years  VERY UNWELCOME POLICE STATE mentality and it will get worse, best vote with your feet

Edited February 6, 2019 by alzack

[jacko45k]

6 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

Anybody ever considered the 400 K maybe in lieu of trying to enforce compulsory heath insurance? In which case it would actually be a damn good idea as far as the Thai's are concerned.

It has been mentioned, but the concept fails as when the account falls below 400k, he is in violation of the terms of his extension and potentially on overstay at worst, or his subsequent extension application fails.