Disgruntled

[overherebc]

26 minutes ago, Pravda said:

 

Amen. 

 

The forum is spammed with old people crying 27 times a day about retirement extensions that  only changed barely enough. 

 

What would happen if the retirement extensions actually followed the rate of inflation? The extensions would have to be at least 1.2mil these days in the bank account.

 

It is very obvious that Thai immigration is doing a favour to retirees and taking into consideration a very strong baht.

Looking at the figures of 800,000 and then 400,000 for the rest of the year ( in a simplistic way ) there is the 1.2 million.

[GeorgeCross]

20 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

I considered this "reason", but it just doesn't make sense.

 

BTW, my question is serious. I'm sure there's a good reason but I haven't figured it out yet.

 

it doesn't make sense that 2 people who are both allowed to work (the immigrant can get a work permit) have a higher earning potential than a retiree on a fixed income (pension) who can't supplement it by work (not allowed to work on extension/visa) IF they choose to?

 

what bit of that don't you understand? 

 

or are you hinting that only rich retirees should be allowed to marry thais and thus the BAR needs to be set higher?

 

 

[farcanell]

2 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Young people have only 1 way to stay here long term, buying an elite visa. So shut up, your post is utter non sense. 

 

You old grumpy retires have it way easier than any of us. 

Whoa....

 

grumpy old retirees have, in the main, worked a lifetime to become eligible to retire grumpily

 

what have you done to become so angry?

[CMNightRider]

12 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

So many of the retirees complaining are out of touch with reality. It's sad, because they just don't get it. Totally lost and  rooted in a different era.  The Thais made a business decision and wish to get rid of the low end of the foreign demographic. That's all it is. Nothing sinister.

 

As a frequent flyer, I read a forum dedicated to travelers and frequent flyers.  I noticed  this post today;

I booked a trip to Trisara in the seven-bedroom Villa No. 5 because the views look terrific. There is only two of us going on this trip, but I like the option to have more bedrooms so others can join. However, everyone keeps saying that we should go to the Amanpuri. I do have a few concerns: 1) The views aren't as good and 2) Trisara is $5,330 a night, whereas Amanpuri is significantly more unless we get the two-bedroom ocean view villa for $5,200 a night................................... 

 

My take away is that on a 10 day trip this  guy is going to spend US $53,000, on just his lodging. Compare this to the people  who can't meet the  800,000 baht (approx. US$23,000) deposit requirement. Thailand is looking for the aforementioned  big spender, not the guy of limited financial means.

If Thailand was a restaurant it would be  like transitioning from fast cheap food like KFC to a more of a middle market typ e of operation like a Wine Connection.  The writing is on the wall for the poor people and the smart ones should be planning to leave now, instead of waiting for the other shoe to drop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the truth were known, there are a lot of foreign retirees on retirement visas who could easily deposit 800,000 baht (approximately $25,400) in a Thai bank to collect dust.  Most of these people have monthly incomes far exceeding 65,000 baht (a little over $2,000) that don't see the need in transferring this monthly income into a Thai bank, when all they have to do is draw money from a debit card when they need it.

 

Thailand is nice but isn't nice enough to park this much money in their third world banking system.  Thailand is upscale compared to countries like Cambodia, and is practically on equal footing with countries like Vietnam, and Philippines.  

 

Immigration may want people who can afford spending over $5,000 a night for a hotel room like you pointed out but most with that kind of money are not looking at retiring in Thailand, lol.  

[overherebc]

5 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Whoa....

 

grumpy old retirees have, in the main, worked a lifetime to become eligible to retire grumpily

 

what have you done to become so angry?

All this thread has reminded me I have to dismantle some shelves in the garage and mantle them on the other side.

Disgruntled now but will I be gruntled when I've finished??

[ThomasThBKK]

If you worked your lifetime and don't 800k THB, i guess you <deleted> up.

If you then blame the youth for your <deleted> while retirees used fake income statements for years then you shouldn't complain that people are getting annoyed about reading the same shit all over again.

 

What i have done to become angry is quite clear, i've read the statement from the topic starter. 

[carbine1125]

5 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

If you worked your lifetime and don't 800k THB, i guess you <deleted> up.

If you then blame the youth for your <deleted> while retirees used fake income statements for years then you shouldn't complain that people are getting annoyed about reading the same shit all over again.

 

What i have done to become angry is quite clear, i've read the statement from the topic starter. 

Quire obvious you are one of the ones who cannot work here legally, spend a bit of dosh and go the ''elite'' route and bobs your uncle eh? So don't preach to others about the legality of their visas

[ThomasThBKK]

I have the elite visa as already written pages ago, i don't need to work here.

Like most young people here - we know how to get along.

[carbine1125]

21 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Whoa....

 

grumpy old retirees have, in the main, worked a lifetime to become eligible to retire grumpily

 

what have you done to become so angry?

Actually he seems more disgruntled than the old fart that started the thread!

[farcanell]

16 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

If you worked your lifetime and don't 800k THB, i guess you <deleted> up.

If you then blame the youth for your <deleted> while retirees used fake income statements for years then you shouldn't complain that people are getting annoyed about reading the same shit all over again.

 

What i have done to become angry is quite clear, i've read the statement from the topic starter. 

Gazza was having a poke at romance scammers and folk working illegally..... if that set you off, you are either a scammer or illegal... or in need of mental health medication.

 

and.... how do you get to the conclusion that anyone, specifically, was  using fake income statements, when the hoo ha is about changes to requirements and how they effect existing retirees, by requiring them to tie up more off their money.

 

and... what if, after working a lifetime, a retiree has 1million usd tied up long term, and can only access a pre arranged stipend, whilst juggling unexpected and unwarranted changes to the immigration rules

 

and.... how about giving greater consideration to grandfathering in changes

 

and... well... there are a lot of ways to approach this, but I would suggest that you avoid immigration threads that discuss retiree requirements, if it makes you angry to read comments made by retirees about retirement visas.... that’s probably the best way forward for you.... or large doses of Valium.

 

[Psimbo]

Oh goody- yet ANOTHER thread on the same subject. Someone pass me the Mess Webley.

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

ED Visa extensions often involve agent-type payments to immigration every 3 months.  That is how they "fixed" that so-called "problem."  Similar may be coming our way for retirement.

 

Not until every last one of us is paying agent-money or elite-visa money tribute to stay.

No, until you start showing the money you always said you had.

[brokenbone]

1 hour ago, geriatrickid said:

...

 

 

 

 

 

 

come off it

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Vacuum said:

They can get married....

I understand that is even more expensive in the long run.

[mtls2005]

50 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

it doesn't make sense that 2 people who are both allowed to work (the immigrant can get a work permit) have a higher earning potential than a retiree on a fixed income (pension) who can't supplement it by work (not allowed to work on extension/visa) IF they choose to?

 

what bit of that don't you understand? 

 

or are you hinting that only rich retirees should be allowed to marry thais and thus the BAR needs to be set higher?

 

 

 

I guess if this is the "reason" then so be it.

 

I freely admit that I must be missing something, just not sure that the potential for two incomes is a factor?

 

I'm not hinting ANYTHING. Simply asking why the BAR is lower when supporting two people.

 

I must be thick.

[JimmyJ]

44 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

If you worked your lifetime and don't 800k THB, i guess you <deleted> up.

If you then blame the youth for your <deleted> while retirees used fake income statements for years then you shouldn't complain that people are getting annoyed about reading the same shit all over again.

 

What i have done to become angry is quite clear, i've read the statement from the topic starter. 

 

Perhaps the mods can arrange to have a ThomasThBKK post pinned automatically to every thread that has the words "retirement" and/or "immigration" so he cannot miss a chance to unhelpfully rail against those who have less cash than the does.

 

(Although admittedly he's doing a fine job of injecting his hatred into every thread on these topics.

Just that if this was done automatically perhaps he'd have time to go outside and kick a few soi dogs  or spit on some beggars instead).

[dbrenn]

3 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Young people have only 1 way to stay here long term, buying an elite visa. So shut up, your post is utter non sense. 

 

You old grumpy retires have it way easier than any of us. 

This is a misinformed post. Lots of young people stay in Thailand by virtue of the work that they do. Work permit holders are allowed to stay with no need to buy an Elite visa. 

 

[Tropicalevo]

3 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Young people have only 1 way to stay here long term, buying an elite visa. So shut up, your post is utter non sense. 

 

You old grumpy retires have it way easier than any of us. 

Not quite.

 

2 - get a proper job, with a work permit and pay taxes

 

3 - start a small business, get a work permit and pay taxes

 

"So shut up, your post is utter non sense. "

[Golden Triangle]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Closing the loopholes was only a small part of the recent reforms. They are largely aimed at reducing the ex-pat population, in my opinion, and discouraging more Western ex-pats from moving here.

 

Returned from immigration recently, after renewing my marriage visa. The upside to this visa, is that only 400,000 is needed as a deposit, and it does not have to stay in the bank, once your visa is granted. The downsides are:

 

The hurdles you need to jump over, in order to get a marriage visa are stupid, ridiculous, unnecessary, draconian, wasteful, and silly. I understand the need for them to verify that you are a legitimate couple. Upon the first application. But, the dumb requirements should not relate to renewals. You should not be required to show fresh images of the house each time, copies of the marriage papers, the house documents, either come with a local Thai witness, or bring a signed affidavit from a local Thai each time, provide new maps to the house, and dozens of other requirements.

 

I just do not even know what to say about the process. I felt like a street dog by the time I left. After hours of paperwork, copy after copy after copy, each page having to be signed, and then being grilling by the surly officer, I literally felt like a street dog. The level of disrespect that immigration shows married couples here, and foreigners in general, is totally uncalled for, beyond the pale, and inane. The copy woman, the guy sorting our papers, they were all nice. But, the officers? Such sourpusses. The woman who was helping us was so difficult to work with, when she finally rejected us over the tiniest thing she did not like, after nearly an hour of reviewing every document with a microscope, so to speak, and said no, I responded by saying yes. YES, you are going to do this. Yes, you are going to do this right now. YES, you are going to stop saying NO to me right now. This ends now. She looked at me and did not know what to say. I asked for the manager. The top brass came over, and we had it sorted in 30 minutes. Took nearly 3 hours. And as usual, it will be a month, until I have final approval. Is it worth it? NO. It is my last marriage visa. I will go back to a retirement visa next year, or leave the country, before I subject myself to that abuse one more time.

 

There is absolutely no need, that I can think of, to do this each and every year. It is nonsensical for everyone involved, to keep repeating the same steps over, and over, and over. It is humiliating, it is demeaning, it is disrespectful, it is petty, it is churlish. It is so wasteful. It is so unnecessary. It accomplishes nothing. It causes inconvenience to both foreigners and Thais. Immigration here really has it wrong. They could be doing so much better. 

 

I totally blame Prayuth, and the biggest joke. Immigration has gotten worse under their tutelage and their arrogance, and their insufferable xenophobia knows no bounds. This whole thing leaves a bitter, sour, nasty, foul taste in one's mouth, and the stench can be smelled for kilometers. It also leaves a rather bad feeling toward our hosts. They could be doing so much better. In my opinion alot of us bring alot to the table here. Thailand is moving backwards on so many levels, I do not even know where to begin. 

This is one of the most intelligent and articulate posts on this subject that I have read for a long time, I had considered going down the marriage visa route, but after reading some of the stories on here about the way people are treated at various immigration offices I decided against it.

 

spidermike007, I understand completely your frustration with immigration, after many years of doing my retirement extension totally legally I was or less pushed down the agent route due to the shabby treatment I received from immigration. It now looks, for the moment anyway, that the use of an agent has been denied to many people, I have the required 800k sitting in various investments, bank accounts at home & other places, the reason I have not moved it here is due to the crap exchange rate at the moment, so those who say people have not planned sufficiently are talking out of their ar***s. They don't know every individual's circumstances so they need to keep quiet.

 

I also feel extremely sorry for those guys, and girls, that moved here, bought a house, raised a family and provided well for that family, the goal posts have been moved beyond many  people's reasonable expectations.

 

Here's a hypothetical example: A guy moves to Thailand 10 years ago, has a long term GF, they get married, he buys a house and a car, they have kids he raises them well and sends them to a not inexpensive private school, so over time his capital sum is reduced by quite a bit ? No problem, he has pensions to live quite comfortably on, the exchange rate plummets due to circumstances beyond his control, and then at the drop of a hat immigration change the rules, the guy is now cattle trucked, he doesn't have the funds for a retirement visa or maybe even the marriage visa, who's to blame here ? 

 

I know what all you retiree knockers will say, but the guy planned for his future and we can't predict what will happen, so all this crap about inadequate planning is BS. 

 

 

    

[ThomasThBKK]

Just now, Tropicalevo said:

Not quite.

 

2 - get a proper job, with a work permit and pay taxes

 

3 - start a small business, get a work permit and pay taxes

 

"So shut up, your post is utter non sense. "

 

Has already been discussed in here, you should learn how to read.

 

 

Retirees have all visa option these young hated people have, and one more.

So stop complaining old people, just get a job or start a small business.

 

 

Oh and i pay taxes here, i have a tax id with the elite visa. So spare me that.

 

 

[Metapod]

Love watching all these poor fossils complain. You guys didn't seem to care much when it was us younger guys feeling the heat.

 

Time to shape up or ship out Gary7616. Good guys in, Gary7616 out!

[Tropicalevo]

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

My company works in IT and will stay in singapore.
There's no IT talent in thailand, it would be impossible to even setup a subsidy here.
I couldn't even fully own it without bs thai nominees.
 

I suspect that you have some narrow views and you seem to be a tad angry

 

I had a regional head office, for the UK software company that I worked for, in Singapore and I set up a subsidiary office in Bangkok. No problems. Lots of very good IT people. Great on the technical but lacking on the 'business' experience.

 

There is nothing difficult in resolving the issue of Thai nominees. My current business has one and I am hoping to give her the business when I retire (again).

 

I have happily lived here for 19 years with no issues on either visas or work permits. Just follow the rules.

 

As far as I am aware, the 800,000 baht in the bank for retirees has always been the case. It is just that some people 'flex' the rules a bit. The law has not changed. It is the application of the law that has changed.

[Tropicalevo]

2 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

Any young western expat coming to Thailand to find a job would have less than lofty goals in life. ????  

So you do not know any teachers, IT/web people, self employed etc?

 

Or are you just talking about young western expats who do not want to pay taxes?

[KiChakayan]

2 hours ago, Vacuum said:

They can get married....

Or they could get a legitimate job in Thailand, no?...

[Tropicalevo]

55 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I understand that is even more expensive in the long run.

Getting married is not the expensive bit. It is getting divorced that costs a lot.

[JimGant]

Quote

But they did checks before not the swearing without checks. Its all about that the swearing without proof is just not credible anymore. 

Of the four embassies that threw in the towel, only the US and Oz embassies didn't require some evidence from the applicant as to the truth of his income statement. Britain and Denmark *did* request to see documentation supporting the income statement -- but apparently their *take* from the lecture received from Immigration was that they had to guarantee the accuracy of the income documentation presented by the applicants. This they, understandably, said they couldn't do, so they stopped the service. The US and Oz probably would have changed policy and asked for some evidence of income -- but when told they had to *guarantee* its validity, adios mofo. We're out of the income statement business.

 

We don't know how the embassies were notified about Immigration's new concern about income statement validity. Was there a written statement, saying the same thing to all embassies (but worded such that it could have several interpretations)? Or were several Immigration officers sent to the various embassies, each officer with his own verbal presentation? We don't know, but somehow four embassies heard "guarantee, " while all the other embassies heard "do your best to authenticate presented documentation."

 

So, here we are -- the end result of semantics, (mis) translations, and possibly different presentations. With 'business as usual' for the large proportion of embassies.

[bkk6060]

38 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

 

 

I also feel extremely sorry for those guys, and girls, that moved here, bought a house, raised a family and provided well for that family, the goal posts have been moved beyond many  people's reasonable expectations.

 

Here's a hypothetical example: A guy moves to Thailand 10 years ago, has a long term GF, they get married, he buys a house and a car, they have kids he raises them well and sends them to a not inexpensive private school, so over time his capital sum is reduced by quite a bit ? No problem, he has pensions to live quite comfortably on, the exchange rate plummets due to circumstances beyond his control, and then at the drop of a hat immigration change the rules, the guy is now cattle trucked, he doesn't have the funds for a retirement visa or maybe even the marriage visa, who's to blame here ? 

 

I know what all you retiree knockers will say, but the guy planned for his future and we can't predict what will happen, so all this crap about inadequate planning is BS. 

 

 

    

I feel sorry for a child who is struck by a car.

I do not feel sorry for an adult who made his own life choices..

 

I guess on your hypothetical they can sell one of their cars or house and rent if they are so poor they cannot afford the new changes..

 

Have you ever surved in the military or had adversity in your life?

You know, adapt to change like a mature adult.

All of this is so minor on the big scheme of things. 

Grow up, be a man or woman, adapt to change and be an adult.

In the long run it may make you a stronger person.

[Mark1066]

14 minutes ago, KiChakayan said:

Or they could get a legitimate job in Thailand, no?...

What if I don't need a job? I have a visa based on marriage, money in the bank and a wife that earns more than enough to pay all the bills if she had to. I'm not sure what's wrong with that or why ThomasThBKK thinks visas based on marriage are "not an option for legit people".

 

To be honest, I don't know why anybody is concerned about how other people are obtaining the visas they have.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 after nearly an hour of reviewing every document with a microscope, so to speak, and said no, I responded by saying yes. YES, you are going to do this. Yes, you are going to do this right now. YES, you are going to stop saying NO to me right now. This ends now. She looked at me and did not know what to say. I asked for the manager. The top brass came over, and we had it sorted in 30 minutes. Took nearly 3 hours. And as usual, it will be a month, until I have final approval. Is it worth it? NO. It is my last marriage visa. I will go back to a retirement visa next year, or leave the country, before I subject myself to that abuse one more time.

 

Yes, been there and done that many times, and they're always the same, it drove me to the multiple Non-o VISA at Suvannakhet, which is no problem at all.

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Plus this is only 4 four embassies who used the swearing method instead of checking real evidence.

No swearing at the UK, they wanted to see and check every claim with documented evidence.