Marriage/Retirement - Interpretations explained.

[Tanoshi]

29 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

OK so just to be clear: In combo method you do not need to maintain a cash balance of 800K at all times, in fact you never need a cash balance of 800k. But you need to maintain in the bank at all times a sum equal to 800k minus your monthly income over the past 12 months.

The shortfall of whatever deposit you hold in the bank must be proved by income totalling 800k for the year.

 

If you can show proof of incomes deposited for the last 12 months of 50K per month (which you can immediately spend).

50 x 12 incomes = 600K (for the year) then only 200K is required to be deposited for the year.

Anything above the 200K can be withdrawn.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Tanoshi

[Sheryl]

Got it.

 

2 other questions:

 

1. Which provinces does this division cover? May be more chance of thsi understanding prevailing there than elsewhere...we have already heard accounts of at east 2 other (Petchabun and Chiang Mai) lwhose interpetations/practices significantly differ from what you describe.

 

2. Related to the above,  did you  get the impression there will be any formal, systematic training of provincial IOs on this? Many/most of them will otherwise not know what to look for on a bank statement. And as we all know all too well, left to one's own devices it is possible to interpret parts of these orders in different ways.

[Sheryl]

17 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

So say on the retirement combo method I bring in 40k every month, totalling 480k....just before I go for my 12 month extension I top up with and extra 320k in the bank. Is this acceptable or is there seasoning on the combo method and do I still need 400k year round?

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From what he has explained, the 320k would have to be seasoned 3 months before and then remain in the bank throughout the year. Your balance could not go below the amount that, together with your income over the year, equals 800k.

 

Must say, they certainly did not word the police order at all clearly on this point.

[Tanoshi]

30 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

So say on the retirement combo method I bring in 40k every month, totalling 480k....just before I go for my 12 month extension I top up with and extra 320k in the bank. Is this acceptable or is there seasoning on the combo method and do I still need 400k year round?

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If you had bank statements showing monthly deposits of 40K = 480K over the 12 month period, then you'd need to show 320K deposited in a Thai bank over the same 12 month period, totalling 800K for the year.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Tanoshi

[Sheryl]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

If you had bank statements showing monthly deposits of 40K = 480K over the 12 month period, then you'd need to show 320K deposited in a Thai bank over the same 12 month period, totalling 800K for the year.

That's a balance of 320K maintained over the year, not deposits totalling 320k over the course of the year, isn't it? Except for the first year of extending under these rules when presumably just 3 months seasoning?

[pontious]

That will be the problem - many IO had different interpretations under the old rules - under the new rules this will be a real muddle.

[Kenny202]

That's a balance of 320K maintained over the year, not deposits totalling 320k over the course of the year, isn't it? Except for the first year of extending under these rules when presumably just 3 months seasoning?

Dont understand? The deposit side of the combo method (320k) needs to be in the bank for the full 12 months prior to extension or only seasoned 3 months prior?

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[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, keemapoot said:

The good thing is that now all using transferwise should be able to have their banks prove up that that the transfers came from abroad.

Where do you get that from?

 

If your bank was the bank that TW used for the transaction then yes, it should show as coming from abroad in your statement. But if TW used another bank, that bank will have made a domestic transfer to your bank and the only information your bank will have, as far as I know, is that a domestic transfer came from Bank X in Thailand.

 

Now, Bank X would have a record of the incoming transfer from abroad, so one recourse would be to try to get a statement from them and show that together with your own bank statement. And maybe have the paperwork from Transferwise as well for backup.

[Tanoshi]

10 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

1. Which provinces does this division cover? May be more chance of thsi understanding prevailing there than elsewhere...we have already heard accounts of at east 2 other (Petchabun and Chiang Mai) lwhose interpetations/practices significantly differ from what you describe.

Joe could probably tell you all the offices in Division 4 at the click of a button.

 

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

2. Related to the above,  did you  get the impression there will be any formal, systematic training of provincial IOs on this? Many/most of them will otherwise not know what to look for on a bank statement. And as we all know all too well, left to one's own devices it is possible to interpret parts of these orders in different ways.

The 2 senior officer spoke in unison and agreement with each other - very clear.

I was the one feeling stupid at times asking for clarifications, when it appeared clear as mud to them.

They invited two of the standard IO's into the meeting and ran through my questions and there replies in Thai, using the orders in front of us, which I supplied in both Thai and English, thanks to TV.

[Sheryl]

6 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Dont understand? The deposit side of the combo method (320k) needs to be in the bank for the full 12 months prior to extension or only seasoned 3 months prior?

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As I understand it, for your first extension after 1 March (when these rules come into effect), it has to have been in there for at least 3 months. Then it has to remain there continuously for the whole year and they will check that it did so at the next extension. So basically after the initial seasoning it always has to stay there.

 

But maybe Tanoshi can confirm I've got that right,

[Tanoshi]

10 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

That's a balance of 320K maintained over the year, not deposits totalling 320k over the course of the year, isn't it? Except for the first year of extending under these rules when presumably just 3 months seasoning?

Just to be clear, that would be funds deposited in a Thai bank of 320K for the year, and bank statement showing incomes of 40K per month throughout the year.

Same seasoning period requirements as for the funds deposited in a Thai bank.

[keemapoot]

Where do you get that from?
 
If your bank was the bank that TW used for the transaction then yes, it should show as coming from abroad in your statement. But if TW used another bank, that bank will have made a domestic transfer to your bank and the only information your bank will have, as far as I know, is that a domestic transfer came from Bank X in Thailand.
 
Now, Bank X would have a record of the incoming transfer from abroad, so one recourse would be to try to get a statement from them and show that together with your own bank statement. And maybe have the paperwork from Transferwise as well for backup.

Yes you are right in the case where your bank uses another domestic advising bank for the international part. We have heard bkk bank shows those ok as international transfers.

What I was responding to is the information that immigration is aware of the issues with transfer coding and they are working with bank hqs to allow account holders to have more detailed letters as to the origin of those transfers. Admittedly not a guarantee using tw.


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[Kenny202]

Just to be clear, that would be funds deposited in a Thai bank of 320K for the year, and bank statement showing incomes of 40K per month throughout the year.
Same seasoning period requirements as for the funds deposited in a Thai bank.

Sorry. Still lost. If the deposit has to be in the bank 12 months how is this seasoned? Or are you saying you need to show the extra 400k also deposited for 6 months?

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[skatewash]

Combo Method Worksheet:

If you know how much you'd like to transfer into your Thai bank account per month

Go To Line 1.

 

If you know how much you'd like to keep in a Thai bank account year-round

Go To Line 4.

 

1.  Minumum Monthly Transfer:                                 _______

2.  Multiply Line 1 amount by 12 = Annual Income:      _______

3.  800,000 minus Line 2 = Minimum Bank Balance:    _______

 

4.  Minimum Bank Balance:                                       _______

5.  800,000 minus Line 4 = Annual Income:                _______

6.  Line 5 divided by 12 = Minimum Monthly Transfer: _______

 

Minimum Monthly Transfer is the amount you have to transfer into your Thai bank account each month.

 

Minimum Bank Balance is the amount you have to maintain in your Thai bank account

for the whole year.

[Tanoshi]

17 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Dont understand? The deposit side of the combo method (320k) needs to be in the bank for the full 12 months prior to extension or only seasoned 3 months prior?

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You need to prove funds deposited in a bank + annual income revenues amount to 800K for the year

If your only remitting 40K a month = 480K over the course of a year, then the shortfall of 320K must be maintained in your funds deposited account for year. Funds and income must total 800K for the year.

[Kenny202]

You need to prove funds deposited in a bank + annual income revenues amount to 800K for the year
If your only remitting 40K a month = 480K over the course of a year, then the shortfall of 320K must be maintained in your funds deposited account for year. Funds and income must total 800K for the year.

So no need to season anything as such?

No 400k baht year round required over and above 800k on the combo method?

So say I deposit initially 200k first month. This stays in the bank for 12 months untouched.

Then for the next 11 months I make monthly deposits of 40k. Would mean my last monthly deposit would need to be 160 baht to make up the 800k

Is there anything to say the monthly deposits need to be equal? Ie 12 x 40k?

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[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, MikeN said:

I don't suppose you asked them to clarify the reason for leaving 400K in the bank ? I know many are assuming it is to cover any medical bills, but what happens if it is and then you do use it for a hospital bill, or whatever its supposed use is? 

If it is just dead money they might as well just charge us 400,000baht for a visa and be done with it.

The reasons behind many of their decisions would require logic. TIT.

 

Maybe it's in case you fail to meet the requirements next time round.

You've always got your airfare out and some loose change to take home. ????

[steve73]

10 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

You need to prove funds deposited in a bank + annual income revenues amount to 800K for the year

If your only remitting 40K a month = 480K over the course of a year, then the shortfall of 320K must be maintained in your funds deposited account for year. Funds and income must total 800K for the year.

 

So for the next extension in 2019, you would only need to demonstrate a few months of income deposits (i.e. from Jan) of say 40k, plus the shortfall of 320k in your account for 3 months.  Then at next extension you would be expected to show all 12 months of 40k, plus the minimum balance of 320k throughout.

 

One problems with a fixed income such as a pension is that the THB actually arriving will vary.  In the case of GBP over the past year, the FX has dropped from over 44 to less than 40.  Clearly you'll need to plan carefully and keep a close watch on incoming funds, and be prepared to trim expenditure in the last few months if the rate is going against you.. and don't cut it too fine.  

[Tanoshi]

14 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

So no need to season anything as such?

Seasoning still required same as funds deposited in the bank method.

Whatever amount of funds you decide on, it should be deposited 3 months before the application, unless it's your first retirement extension application, then it's only 2 months.

14 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Then for the next 11 months I make monthly deposits of 40k. Would mean my last monthly deposit would need to be 160 baht to make up the 800k

12 months is annual, 11 months is not.

 

14 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Is there anything to say the monthly deposits need to be equal? Ie 12 x 40k?

No, not for the combo, but if you make their life difficult in calculating the figures, it could rebound 3 fold.

Try and keep it plain and simple would be my advice.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Tanoshi

[Tanoshi]

8 minutes ago, steve73 said:

So for the next extension in 2019, you would only need to demonstrate a few months of income deposits (i.e. from Jan) of say 40k, plus the shortfall of 320k in your account for 3 months. 

They'd probably go back to the date of your previous extension, but if you only started making regular income deposits from March, then this is where the discretion comes into play. If you explain what your doing for 2020, I wouldn't expect to much hassle.

 

12 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Then at next extension you would be expected to show all 12 months of 40k, plus the minimum balance of 320k throughout.

✔️

 

13 minutes ago, steve73 said:

One problems with a fixed income such as a pension is that the THB actually arriving will vary.  In the case of GBP over the past year, the FX has dropped from over 44 to less than 40.  Clearly you'll need to plan carefully and keep a close watch on incoming funds, and be prepared to trim expenditure in the last few months if the rate is going against you.. and don't cut it too fine.  

Nah! Be back up to 50 when those clowns get their act together.

Another topic, but yes allow for fluctuations, especially UK members.

[steve73]

One major advantage of Transferwise (or similar methods) is that you can calculate EXACTLY how much you need to send to arrive as (say 40k or 65k bt).  This would make the IO's job MUCH easier when doing his sums - and yours when working out how much you need to put on deposit for 3 months.

 

But on the flipside, a round number might look as if you are transferring it from another domestic account unless the banks are able to sort out the international codes correctly. 

[steve73]

4 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Nah! Be back up to 50 when those clowns get their act together.

 

I'm gonna hold you to that Mr T... 555

 

btw - Thanks for all your hard work today.. Much appreciated by me, and I'm sure many others.

Edited February 11, 2019 by steve73

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, steve73 said:

I'm gonna hold you to that Mr T... 555

I can't vouch for the clowns though!

I preferred 'Deal or No Deal' with Noel Edmunds. At least it had an ending.

[Kenny202]

No, not for the combo, but if you make their life difficult in calculating the figures, it could rebound 3 fold.
Try and keep it plain and simple would be my advice.

Sorry. I have to be misinterpreting something here? I thought you said the lump sum amount needed to be deposited for the 12 months prior to applying for extension. Now you seem to be saying 3 months prior?

On the rest I think you missed my point. And this is hyperthetical based in Imm rules....

Say I dont want to have 800 / 400k sitting around over here. I use the combo method which means I dont have to have min balance of 400k all year round.

So I make small monthly deposits of say 10k per month... A total of 120k for the year. Month 9, I deposit a lump sum of 680k giving me 800k for the year.

This would be minimizing a large amount you would need to have here for only 3 months as opposed to 800k for 6 months then 400k for 6 months.

I hear what your saying re maybe they will think youre a smart a$$ but technically am I reading this right? There is no limits or rules on how much monthly and how much lump sum?

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[skatewash]

12 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Sorry. I have to be misinterpreting something here? I thought you said the lump sum amount needed to be deposited for the 12 months prior to applying for extension. Now you seem to be saying 3 months prior?

On the rest I think you missed my point. And this is hyperthetical based in Imm rules....

Say I dont want to have 800 / 400k sitting around over here. I use the combo method which means I dont have to have min balance of 400k all year round.

So I make small monthly deposits of say 10k per month... A total of 120k for the year. Month 9, I deposit a lump sum of 680k giving me 800k for the year.

This would be minimizing a large amount you would need to have here for only 3 months as opposed to 800k for 6 months then 400k for 6 months.

I hear what your saying re maybe they will think youre a smart a$$ but technically am I reading this right? There is no limits or rules on how much monthly and how much lump sum?

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My understanding of the OP might be faulty, but if I'm right there really isn't a seasoning period for the minimum bank balance unless you want to think of the whole year as the seasoning period.

 

If you're right and there's the standard seasoning period (ala the lump-sum method) that applies to the combo method rather than an actual minimum bank balance, then you really could game the system in the way you suggest.  That is, use the combo method to escape from the onerous minimum bank balance associated with the lump-sum method, but pick a minimum monthly transfer amount that's really tiny so that the vast majority of your 800,000 is, in fact, the bank balance component and very little is the monthly income portion.  I think what prevents this avenue is the that there really isn't just a three-month or six-month seasoning period involved in the combo method but a 12-month minimum balance.  So if your monthly transfers were only 10,000 you would need to keep the 680,000 in the bank year round.

Edited February 11, 2019 by skatewash
posted before I'd finished ;-)

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Sorry. I have to be misinterpreting something here? I thought you said the lump sum amount needed to be deposited for the 12 months prior to applying for extension. Now you seem to be saying 3 months prior?

On the rest I think you missed my point. And this is hyperthetical based in Imm rules....

Say I dont want to have 800 / 400k sitting around over here. I use the combo method which means I dont have to have min balance of 400k all year round.

So I make small monthly deposits of say 10k per month... A total of 120k for the year. Month 9, I deposit a lump sum of 680k giving me 800k for the year.

This would be minimizing a large amount you would need to have here for only 3 months as opposed to 800k for 6 months then 400k for 6 months.

I hear what your saying re maybe they will think youre a smart a$$ but technically am I reading this right? There is no limits or rules on how much monthly and how much lump sum?

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I think you have to base your decision on either how much funds do I want to tie down, as opposed to how much income I want to transfer monthly. Everyone will have their own balances depending on circumstances.

There is no fixed amount of funds in the bank or monthly income deposits, the only requirement is that together they must total 800K annually.

 

If you can get a better interest rate back home, keep funds deposited here to a minimum, as long as you can make the difference up with regular monthly income deposits. If you can get a better interest rate here, the opposite may apply as long as you still have a sufficient income stream to live on.

It's a minimum of funds and income totalling 800K.

[Kenny202]

Sorry. I have to be misinterpreting something here? I thought you said the lump sum amount needed to be deposited for the 12 months prior to applying for extension. Now you seem to be saying 3 months prior?

On the rest I think you missed my point. And this is hyperthetical based in Imm rules....

Say I dont want to have 800 / 400k sitting around over here. I use the combo method which means I dont have to have min balance of 400k all year round.

So I make small monthly deposits of say 10k per month... A total of 120k for the year. Month 9, I deposit a lump sum of 680k giving me 800k for the year.

This would be minimizing a large amount you would need to have here for only 3 months as opposed to 800k for 6 months then 400k for 6 months.

I hear what your saying re maybe they will think youre a smart a$$ but technically am I reading this right? There is no limits or rules on how much monthly and how much lump sum?

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Well its a no brainer. Combo method. Transfer over what you need to live monthly. Pop the lump sum balance in the bank last 3 months

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[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, skatewash said:

My understanding of the OP might be faulty, but if I'm right there really isn't a seasoning period for the minimum bank balance unless you want to think of the whole 

Depends on the situation.

If your changing from funds deposit to combo method then presumably the seasoning part is already completed and no difference to using the funds in the bank method. You have the option of using monthly income to a point where you may now be able to withdraw on some of those deposited funds.

For first time applicants the seasoning is the same as for funds deposited method anyway.

If your changing from income only to the combo, then the seasoning period pinch will be obvious for the first year.

[skatewash]

6 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Well its a no brainer. Combo method. Transfer over what you need to live monthly. Pop the lump sum balance in the bank last 3 months

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You're right that would be the way to go... which is exactly why I think that's not allowed.  You couldn't just simply pop the lump sum balance into the bank for the last 3 months.  You would have to have that balance in the account the whole year.  Otherwise, what you're effectively doing is a more favorable lump-sum method without the nasty minimum balance requirements of that method and you're instead doing a nominal monthly transfer just to be able to use the more liberal rules of the combo method.

 

 

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, kannot said:

yeah maybe TV could remove the other 25 topics on the same subject

In the category of Marriage and Retirement extensions, best nomination for post of the year goes to Kannot!   

UJ already gave it 10,00 likes.