Landlady says I owe her money for damage to condo in Phuket

[Jouner88]

This is in Phuket.

 

I stayed in a Condo for about a year and a half. I am a teacher here so I live here. I recently moved to a location closer to school. When I moved out, there were some things that needed to be fixed. I acknowledged that and told the landlady to keep the 10,000 baht deposit for that purpose. That was more than I think the fixing costs actually were, but I didn't feel like arguing about it and was hoping it would just be let go.

 

Problem is, in addition to the real things that needed fixing she also made up a few things. For example, the lock was completely fine when I left, and she sends a picture of the metal cover knocked off. Wasn't like that when I left, and supposedly fixing that little cosmetic thing is 800 baht.

 

The prices for other things, like a new coat of paint for a small area, seems really exaggerated as well. 3000 baht to paint the (tiny) kitchen.

 

The little plastic door in the refrigerator needed to be replaced, but she wants to charge me for an entirely new fridge (5,000-6,000 baht). The thing works fine. That seems a bit crazy, but I suppose I would be willing to buy a new one if legally that was required. However, I would insist on getting the old one since I am effectively buying it.

 

Long story short, she says I owe 19,000 baht, approximately, (9,000 if you subtract the deposit). The problem is that I have repeatedly told her that actual official receipts for all this stuff would be needed or I wouldn't even consider the requests. And of course, even with receipts I would depute several of the things she claims I broke, because I didn't break them. The only thing she sent me was a piece of paper on which she wrote presumably made up numbers. Ya, that isn't going to work.

 

Well, in addition to refusing to send me receipts to even begin the negotiation, she has continually been a pest. First she called the school. Which I don't think the school cares, but I told them to please ignore her and tell her not to call them anymore. I also let the school know she refuses to provide real receipts.

 

Well, tonight she calls and says she is at the police station and that I need to go there right now. Obviously I am not going to do that.

 

In the US, this would be considered a civil matter and a court case would need to be filed. The police wouldn't get involved at all, and wouldn't have authority anyway. Does that work the same in Thailand, or can the police actually decide on this matter? Are they going to come pick me up tomorrow over it? I would find it very hard to believe that this would happen, but I would rather get it confirmed by someone who knows better.

 

It seems like it is coming to the point where I need to get a lawyer. Or else it might be getting close. Can anyone recommend a Lawyer in Phuket who can help me with this?

 

Money isn't really an issue, I would be more interested in fighting it and spending more in the long run if necessary.

[smutcakes]

Essentially its your word against hers. You say one thing which you cannot prove, and she says something else which she cannot prove.

 

Do you have photos of everything before and after? Perhaps she does?

 

Best thing for ease of body and mind would just settle on maybe 15K and both walk away.

 

Landlords can be total asses, but so can tenants. Landlords try and take the piss but tenants also tend to gloss over things as not important, or minor damage, or completely ignore things they have done to.

[CharlieH]

IIn my experience and to my knowledge, the complaint is made to the Police and they act as a kind of mediator to resolve any dispute, in the first instance.

Problem there, is you dont know who she knows there or is connected to.

If you go make sure you have good and effective representation by a Thai.

 

Get some Thai help, always better to let Thai deal with Thai. Try to negotiate it out,

[Jouner88]

Yes, my girlfriend and her mother have been doing most of the talking.

 

I agree that some tenants are bad, and I in principle am not necessarily unwilling to pay more. If there is valid reason and evidence. However, I think expecting actual official receipts is basically a minimum expectation. I plan on retaining a lawyer and having all future communication go through the lawyer.

[Puchaiyank]

I once had a dispute with condo real estate office...I refused to pay for made up scam charges...Receive a knock on door...real estate lady with policeman...now get this...he was in full swat-team gear...bullet proof vest...the whole bit...makes me smile even now to think about it...told her I would see her on Monday and closed the door in their faces...repeated knocks were ignored...Thais love drama...

[Jouner88]

Well, that is what I think is happening. If these were legit complaints, she'd hand over the receipts. They aren't legit, so no receipts, so she is attempting to create drama in various ways to extort an extra 9000 baht.

[YT3k72Em]

What did your contract say about "normal wear and tear"?

 

As mentioned before, always take photos before you move in and after you move out.

[scorecard]

On 2/21/2019 at 5:04 PM, smutcakes said:

Essentially its your word against hers. You say one thing which you cannot prove, and she says something else which she cannot prove.

 

Do you have photos of everything before and after? Perhaps she does?

 

Best thing for ease of body and mind would just settle on maybe 15K and both walk away.

 

Landlords can be total asses, but so can tenants. Landlords try and take the piss but tenants also tend to gloss over things as not important, or minor damage, or completely ignore things they have done to.

• And the law in the US is not relevant.
• Is it possible to replace the small door in the fridge? Maybe not possible to buy replacement parts?
• Tradespeople here, like everywhere, don't accept small jobs meaning it's often expensive to get small jobs done.

 

     What subject do you teach?

 

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by scorecard

[Formaleins]

You should have had a walk around with the landlady before you left and photographed and documented everything that needed repair, then there would have been no argument. Now, as others have said it is your word against hers. Also, the fact that you just walked away from the 10K deposit probably gave her a very warm feeling in her bones, she must have thought it was her lucky day! If you gave up that money without even any questions, imagine how much she must have expected to get away with.

[meinphuket]

Ignore it, it will just go away. Most of what you mention comes under normal 'wear and tear'  The police can't even summon you, though they may try, as it is a civil case. If you believe that that police station is being incentivized by her,  go to see a senior officer at police HQs in Phuket town, and ultimately there s always the Damrongtum/ombudsman at City hall/salaklaan.

[kamalabob2]

If the OP searches on line he can find a news story or forum posting about the expat who moved out a rental after a small fire. He claimed he was not at fault. He was a smoker. He left the Kingdom for several months. Upon his return to Thailand he was thrown in jail. Seems his landlord went to court and won a judgement of sorts. It is a cautionary true tale of not blowing off a Thai landlord. Police can be incentivized and you will be at a great disadvantage. 

[Golden Brown]

Even should she produce receipts, that means nothing in Thailand.   You can buy a book of receipts and write your own.   I cannot understand why you have to pay for the painting when that should be the owners upkeep.   You are lucky she didn't scam you for the electric bill too!   I have never known anything like it.   If the cost per unit of electricity is say Bt4, they charge Bt6.   An absolute scandal and they see nothing wrong with doing this.   Good luck pal.   Your not the first and won't be the last to be scammed here.

[Bangkok Barry]

7 minutes ago, Golden Brown said:

If the cost per unit of electricity is say Bt4, they charge Bt6.

 

I believe this was made illegal a year or so ago. But whether something is illegal or not has absolutely no relevance in Thailand.

[worgeordie]

I suspect you were never going to get your deposit back anyway,

and she is trying to scam you for even more,they cannot help

themselves,we are landlords and we accept wear and tear but

not wanton damage.tenants are repaid their deposits less any

charges for electricity,water,internet,as  soon as they vacate we

repaint all internal walls,fix whatever little things that need doing.

you have to look after your tenants,that's how i was brought up

in business to do,the customers always right (even when they are not )

especially now there seems to be less expats here.

 

regards Worgeordie

[The Theory]

What you don’t understand is:

it’s not only about cost of repair. 

Time and deal with different kind of repair. 

I’m wondering if you want to replace that little door inside your fridge how will you do it !!!! ????????

A backpacker kind of thinking not a real teacher. 

[PerkinsCuthbert]

7 minutes ago, The Theory said:

What you don’t understand is:

it’s not only about cost of repair. 

Time and deal with different kind of repair. 

I’m wondering if you want to replace that little door inside your fridge how will you do it !!!! ????????

A backpacker kind of thinking not a real teacher. 

Seek help.

[Number 6]

Just tell her you've had enough and leaving Thailand.

 

 

Change your sim. Move to Bangkok and get a real job.

 

Cops will be lazy. She'll need money to push the issue.

 

What a con.  I hate Phuket do much in 30 years I've never been further than transiting thru the bus terminal.

[The Theory]

25 minutes ago, PerkinsCuthbert said:

Seek help.

 

Help ?!!!!!

You see, this is another reason that shows how you think. 

The fact is you caused damages more or less (your story is all we know about it). It shows that how you treat a rental property. Even if you rent a property in US you have to pay for damages. If  the owner takes you to court, you will be responsible for court fees as well since you are the one who caused damages. If you get lucky you just don’t pay for the time that landlord had to spend for dealing with repair.

Why don’t you fix them by yourself ?

I tell you why:

Because it takes time and headaches and you even have no idea where to start. 

Next time you rent a property take photos and email the landloard at the time you moving in. And feel more responsible for others property. 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by The Theory

[Jaxxper]

Tell her that first you are going to make a inquires at the revenue department to ensure she has been declaring the rental income recession fed from you. Might put the frighteners on her to back off...just a thought.

[nahkit]

1 hour ago, The Theory said:

1 hour ago, PerkinsCuthbert said:

Seek help.

 

Help ?!!!!!

You see, this is another reason that shows how you think. 

The fact is you caused damages more or less (your story is all we know about it). It shows that how you treat a rental property. Even if you rent a property in US you have to pay for damages. If  the owner takes you to court, you will be responsible for court fees as well since you are the one who caused damages. If you get lucky you just don’t pay for the time that landlord had to spend for dealing with repair.

Why don’t you fix them by yourself ?

I tell you why:

Because it takes time and headaches and you even have no idea where to start. 

Next time you rent a property take photos and email the landloard at the time you moving in. And feel more responsible for others property.  

 

You do realise that the guy who posted "seek help" isn't the same person as the one who rented the property don't you? 

[baansgr]

the joys or renting. What may seem like a small area to paint, if it's coloured a good thing can cost 1.200 baht,  so 1.800 labour isn't excessive if the painter uses there own brushes,  rollers,  cleaning equipment  plus travelling. 

it's difficult to purchase fridge parts so yes maybe a new fridge is required but you are entitled  to the old one. try and meet her halfway 

[PerkinsCuthbert]

1 minute ago, nahkit said:

You do realise that the guy who posted "seek help" isn't the same person as the one who rented the property don't you? 

The guy's out to lunch without a Kit-Kat.

[HLover]

1 hour ago, The Theory said:

if you rent a property in US 

Irrelevant.

[The Theory]

13 minutes ago, nahkit said:

You do realise that the guy who posted "seek help" isn't the same person as the one who rented the property don't you? 

Who cares !!!

must be the same kind.

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by The Theory

[The Theory]

5 minutes ago, HLover said:

Irrelevant.

Did you read the OP ? ????

Definitely not all.

Edited February 23, 2019 by The Theory

[HLover]

1 minute ago, The Theory said:

Did you read the OP ? ????

Of course. 

[HLover]

On 2/21/2019 at 4:56 PM, Jouner88 said:

Money isn't really an issue, I would be more interested in fighting it and spending more in the long run if necessary.

Brilliant strategy.

Your not in Kansas anymore Toto.

[snooky]

Not all landlords or agents are scammers.  A friend of mine went back to the US after selling everything in his apartment.  Several weeks later, I ran into his landlady who asked me to stop at the office wherein she handed me his deposit back, minus a few small repairs that had to be made.  

[LomSak27]

Good luck and post up if you get anything back. Yep, they always do this. My previous Condo owner owes me for the repair of the Air Con unit (5700) and a new matteress (6000). Both of which she suddenly became hard to find and unable to return my calls when I tried to get her to take care of it, replace etc.

 

She of course took all my damage deposit and what are you going to do? Hang out in Nakorn Nowwhere trying to hunt the owner down. BTW, left that condo in far better shape than I got it. Screened the porch balconey from the pigeons, put in reflective material on the upper windows etc etc. I did this she didn't. Never could find her when her paying money was involved. Bet she is happy she rented to me. ALways paid on time, her other tenants in her other condos did not. Always a lot of drama with them. 

 

This one, took about 65 picture when I moved in, but truth is, when I do move out, I doubt I will get a satang, TIT     

 

 

[nausea]

Pretty normal landlord behaviour, I had this problem with the flats I rented in the UK. I must admit, they didn't go over and above the deposit amount though. I guess it was already spent, and, basically, they didn't have it to give back.