My Experience Extending my Retirement "Visa" last Friday.

[Sheryl]

15 minutes ago, steve73 said:

You could show your bank your TW receipts.  They MAY be able to follow the trial back and re-code.  But Sheryl has said they can perhaps only check back for a short period. Alternatively take a printed statement to your I/O now and ask them if this is satisfactory for what they require.

 

Skatewash's reply explains much better than my feeble attempt...(which I did not previously see) 

No, I was nto referring to TW but to Credit Advice which you can get from your own bank and which should, hopefully, show the entire path the money took, from overseas via intermediary banks to your bank.

 

Credit Advices can be gotten as much as a year later, I have done it, but it involves going through the bank HQ. Whereas within a short time after a transfer arrives you can get them at any branch of your bank, just show the passbook with the transaction listed.  (Have your passport too just in case, though when I last did this they didn't ask for it).

 

A Credit Advice is issued by your Thai bank when fund transfers have been received. It is nto a TW document. TW has there own records, of course, but I would not hold out much hope of TI looking at anything that did nto come from a Thai bank.

 

As it affects many people I am hoping someone here can post a Credit Advice for a TW transfer that used a partner bank in Thailand.

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

That, I can well believe. Normally one would get the Credit Advice from the bank the funds ultimately came through, where oyu had an account.

I'll take a step back here. lol.

I know you get credit advice notices from KK, but as I posted before I spent 2 hours in a KK branch with my friend and his Thai wife speaking to their HQ and their call centre.

He had a KK account, but Credit advice's are only now available to individuals through their HQ, in person only, for 100 baht a pop according to them. Our experience had no resemblance to yours.

 

He opened an account with BKK who were far more helpful.

 

12 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Did the Credit Advice from the other account not show the detail needed?

A typical Transferwise account paid through a bank other than the one you have an account with shows as 'domestic' or 'local' on your statements. After the performance at KK, trying to get a credit advice from a bank you don't even have an account with could be arduous to put it mildly.

[Tanoshi]

12 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

No, I was nto referring to TW but to Credit Advice which you can get from your own bank and which should, hopefully, show the entire path the money took, from overseas via intermediary banks to your bank.

Foreign bank to Thai bank?

 

These payments go through the banks HQ to your local account.

In the case of KK it shows as a 'local' deposit (from their HQ) and you should be able to get credit advices to confirm the overseas origin.

In the case of BKK, it follows the same route through their HQ, but shows as FTT on your statement. No need for credit advices.

[steve73]

29 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Credit Advices can be gotten as much as a year later, I have done it, but it involves going through the bank HQ. Whereas within a short time after a transfer arrives you can get them at any branch of your bank, just show the passbook with the transaction listed.  (Have your passport too just in case, though when I last did this they didn't ask for it).

Sorry - I misunderstood your comments about timing.

I was suggesting using the TW receipt to show the bank that they had mis-coded.. and they could go back through their credit advice notes to re-code.

Immigration don't want to see credit advice slips, or TW receipts - they just want to see a simple bank statement, so we need a way to "encourage" our bank to code it "correctly" (or at least in a way the Imm will accept).

I've not seen any posts by someone showing a bank statement with mis-coded international transfers to Imm. to gauge their response.

[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, steve73 said:

've not seen any posts by someone showing a bank statement with mis-coded international transfers to Imm. to gauge their response.

When I was going through my IO's interpretations, they demonstrated examples.

One was a marriage extension application with 12 monthly bank statements attached.

Each months statement had two deposit, one a direct bank to bank transfer shown as 'International', which they'd highlighted.

The second which they'd question marked throughout was 'BAHTNET'

I immediately recognised it as an overseas transaction and explain what it was.

While we continued our discussion, they had another IO ring BKK, who confirmed just as I told them.

It was smiles all round.

 

They'll be wiser now, next time they get a statement showing a BAHTNET transaction.

[Sheryl]

56 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I'll take a step back here. lol.

I know you get credit advice notices from KK, but as I posted before I spent 2 hours in a KK branch with my friend and his Thai wife speaking to their HQ and their call centre.

He had a KK account, but Credit advice's are only now available to individuals through their HQ, in person only, for 100 baht a pop according to them. Our experience had no resemblance to yours.

 

I just spoke to their call center last week, wondering if something had changed in light of what you reported. They said no problem at all, just go to any branch, which I did, and got it. Free.

 

And have repeated this several times a year for the last 20 odd years.

 

But this was a fresh transfer, just a few days later.

 

It is only when a certain amount of time has passed that it has to be gotten from HQ and costs 100 baht. 

 

Was this a brand new transfer? As I cannot imagine they would say it costs 100 baht and has to be gotten from HQ if the funds had just come in.. That is only for transfers older than a certain time period (?a week, a month? I forget. It could be as short as a week.).  And I re-confirmed this on the phone with Kasikorn HQ just last Thursday.

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I just spoke to their call center last week, wondering if something had changed in light of what you reported. They said no problem at all, just go to any branch, which I did, and got it. Free.

 

And have repeated this several times a year for the last 20 odd years.

 

But this was a fresh transfer, just a few days later.

 

It is only when a certain amount of time has passed that it has to be gotten from HQ and costs 100 baht. 

 

Was this a brand new transfer? As I cannot imagine they would say it costs 100 baht and has to be gotten from HQ if the funds had just come in.. That is only for transfers older than a certain time period (?a week, a month? I forget. It could be as short as a week.).  And I re-confirmed this on the phone with Kasikorn HQ just last Thursday.

I absolutely don't doubt you Sheryl.

Speak to different bank officials, get a different answer. TIT.

 

He was looking ahead to preparing for his next extension after the BE ceased the Income letters.

His UK transfers showed as 'local' on his local KK statements.

He moved to BKK, and transferring the same way his deposits now show as FTT on his local BKK statements.

[Sheryl]

So they were old transfers, then? (i.e. not just newly made).

 

In that case it does indeed have to some from the bank HQ and yes, it costs.  My experience also.

 

I did not have to go in person to get it though, they sent it at my request to my local branch to pick up.

 

I just located an email exchange I had with KK on this subject a few years ago, says as follows:

 

"According to your enquiry about credit advice, we would like to inform you that there are 3 process for requesting credit advice by following;
- Requesting credit advice within three months from now, the customers can contact any Kbank branch that you are convenience receive in Bangkok and Vice city. No fee for this service
- Requesting credit advice within three months from now, the customers can contact any Kbank branch that you are convenience receive in outside Bangkok, please directly contact K-Contact Center at Tel. (66) 2888 8800 press 0 press 2 24 hours everyday. No fee for this service
- Requesting credit advice exceeding three months from now, please directly contact K-Contact Center at Tel. (66) 2888 8800 press 0 press 2 24 hours everyday. You will receive the document at Kbank branch that you are convenience and there are 500 Baht for this service.
The process takes about a business days."

 

That is several years old, I think the woman I spoke to the other day said fee now 100 baht for older CAs.

[steve73]

The thing is we (as customers) don't particularly want to see the Credit Advice note, and we know Immigration aren't interested in seeing them, so we shouldn't actually need to request one.

 

We know we sourced the money from overseas using TW, or whatever.

 

What we do need is for the bank themselves to use the information from the CA note to ensure the deposit is coded in a way that can be recognized by Immigration to suit its needs.

 

Let's keep pushing our banks to provide the CORRECT information.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

8 hours ago, steve73 said:

Let's keep pushing our banks to provide the CORRECT information.

The problem with that is that the CORRECT information for TransferWise transfers is that they are LOCAL transfers, not as coded in most Bangkok bank transfers as international. 

 

If you dont don't believe me just look at the many emails from TW stating that. And if you don't believe the emails ask them yourself.

Edited February 25, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

From what I was advised in the case of a discrepancy where the funds originated the IO will simply call the bank to confirm it was from overseas.

So the bank will respond to some random call from someone claiming to be an immigration officer and give out personal information about anybody's account? And they will tell them that the money arrived in Bangkok Bank as a Smart domestic transfer from TMB. Then they will call TMB to backtrack the transfer further? I'm guessing some IOs won't.

Edited February 26, 2019 by jacko45k

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, sfokevin said:

Weren’t they mulling the idea of allowing us to do our 90 day reporting at the 7-11?... We could bring our bank statements too and the 7-11 lady could take a picture of it with her cellphone and forward everything to Immigration!... Easy Peasy!...

You mean she would have to interrupt the call she is making and do some work and stop hiding between the shelves? A bit of a dreamer.

I will try it the day after March 31st.

Edited February 26, 2019 by jacko45k

[wgdanson]

19 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

You provide the evidence from the previous 12 months to obtain your next extension.

Correct mate. You cannot provide evidence from the next 12 months.......LOL????

[skatewash]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The problem with that is that the CORRECT information for TransferWise transfers is that they are LOCAL transfers, not as coded in most Bangkok bank transfers as international. 

 

If you dont don't believe me just look at the many emails from TW stating that. And if you don't believe the emails ask them yourself.

I disagree.  TransferWise are clearly international transfers.  Money is debited in one country and credited in another country.  No different than what happens in a SWIFT transfer.  The problem is that they are not marked as international by the Thai banks.  The many emails from TW confirm that.  They state that they have no control over how their partner banks in Thailand mark the incoming transfers.  Bangkok Bank seems to mark it correctly for the most part and the other partner banks don't seem to.

 

If it's not an international transfer, then what is it?  Two domestic transfers?  I think people have an unrealistic picture of what happens when a SWIFT transfer occurs.  The money doesn't fly through the air from country to country in little bundles carried by storks.  It happens in much the same way that a TW transfer occurs, offsetting accounting entries are made in the appropriate accounts according to an established protocol.  Participants in the SWIFT system have agreed to mark the incoming transfers as what they are, international transfers.  TW apparently doesn't have the clout to compel their partners in Thailand to do the same.

 

TW has never claimed that the transfers they do aren't international, just that they can't force their Thai partner banks to mark them as such.

Edited February 26, 2019 by skatewash

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

So the bank will respond to some random call from someone claiming to be an immigration officer and give out personal information about anybody's account?

Apparently so!

But isn't that exactly what TI was expecting the Embassies to do, ring your Pension providers to verify your income.

 

[jacko45k]

19 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Apparently so!

But isn't that exactly what TI was expecting the Embassies to do, ring your Pension providers to verify your income.

 

I am unsure what TI was expecting the Embassies to do, but the previous expectation was far removed from that as they openly accepted Stat Decs and affidavits, which clearly did nothing of the sort. 

Then there is perhaps the perception of a military Government who cannot grasp that other countries cannot demand information wrt all nationals. 

Edited February 26, 2019 by jacko45k

[DepDavid]

If you are using "ACH" transfer from Chase Bank  to Bangkok Bank you will no longer be able to use that method beginning 1 Apr 19 unless Chase uses ACH "IAT" format---and it highly, highly doubtful they use IAT format.  Now if you are using SWIFT then that will continue to work.  

I researched this and set up a wire to BKKNY and a global wire of Thai baht to BKKNY. For a $200 wire I was charged $40. The actual money going into my Thai account was 262 baht more using the wire of USD. I researched Schwab Chase and a couple of credit unions. They do not nor do they plan to use IAT transfer protocol.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, skatewash said:

If it's not an international transfer, then what is it?  Two domestic transfers?

Yes,  you are correctly quoting the way TransferWise states what it is

[skatewash]

10 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Yes,  you are correctly quoting the way TransferWise states what it is

Well, the international money laundering problem has just been solved then. ????

 

No international transfer occurs, just two domestic transfers, and yet money moves from one country to another.  It's magic!

[sometimewoodworker]

6 minutes ago, skatewash said:

Well, the international money laundering problem has just been solved then. ????

 

No international transfer occurs, just two domestic transfers, and yet money moves from one country to another.  It's magic!

Email TransferWise since you clearly don't believe me. Or go back to the threads showing emails from TW telling you how it works.

 

The money DOES NOT MOVE COUNTRIES.

 

Genius congratulations???? you now understand. Yes there are just two domestic transfers. There is an internal calculation to determine the amount of the second.

Edited February 26, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The money DOES NOT MOVE COUNTRIES.

It's a wire transfer, a Foreign Telex transaction, exactly the same as foreign bank to Thai bank transactions.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It's a wire transfer, a Foreign Telex transaction, exactly the same as foreign bank to Thai bank transactions.

That is not the information that they give

 

email them and post the results as several have already done. If they have changed their system they do not give it on their website. 

 

There is no mention of any international transfers.

Quote

• We allocate (or reserve) the money required in the recipient currency to pay the transfer out. Here, our treasury systems ensure that the required funds are available in the right account at the planned payout time. This is where a big part of the TransferWise magic happens.
• We actually execute the payout. Again, this takes just a few seconds.

 

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is not the information that they give

I have made several transactions through my UK bank to my Thai bank, then several transactions through Transferwise and in each and every case they appear as FTT transactions in my passbook and statements.

That is all that really matters for Immigration purposes.

[sometimewoodworker]

12 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I have made several transactions through my UK bank to my Thai bank, then several transactions through Transferwise and in each and every case they appear as FTT transactions in my passbook and statements.

That is all that really matters for Immigration purposes.

That is the information that many people have. Though there is no guarantee that every transfer will be coded as FTT as some people have posted, 10 out of 12 were FTT. 

 

It is certainly possible that TW has an agreement with Bangkok Bank (the only one that is somewhat consistent) that a TW transfer BB to BB is coded as FTT. 

 

As as I have said email TW. Unless there has been a very very recent change in the system you will get exactly the same answer.

 

here is a Telegraph article that you should believe.

UK TW system

Edited February 26, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[cmarshall]

I have limited experience with the retirement visa, having just made my first annual extension earlier this month for which I had the 800k in the bank as required for the 3 months prior to applying.  Later this year I will start receiving SS benefits above the THB 65k level per month.  I would like at some point to switch to the income method.  But at which point and how?:

 

So, my question comes to this: let's simplify it by saying I got the last extension using the deposit method and then I start receiving the required deposits every month from the first month of the new extension period.  So, I plan to qualify by income at next year's renewal.  That being the plan, what if I were then immediately to draw down the balance below 800k and then below 400k.   At the time of next year's application when I have 12 months of monthly foreign transfers, will I have a problem because I didn't maintain the minimum balances under the deposit rule?

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is the information that many people have. Though there is no guarantee that every transfer will be coded as FTT as some people have posted, 10 out of 12 were FTT. 

 

It is certainly possible that TW has an agreement with Bangkok Bank (the only one that is somewhat consistent) that a TW transfer BB to BB is coded as FTT. 

 

As as I have said email TW. Unless there has been a very very recent change in the system you will get exactly the same answer.

Transferwise have 3 accounts in Thailand with BKK, Kasikorn and TMB.

 

The issues surrounding the transfer methods is compounded by how the Thai banks record such transfers.

There are at least 5 different methods to transfer funds that I'm aware of.

Bangkok Bank appear to be the only bank that records the source of the transfer, or can supply that information effortlessly.

 

If your with Kasikorn as an example and you make a bank to bank transfer, it goes through their HQ, then into your local account. Your local statement will record it as a domestic or local transfer, it came from their HQ in Thailand.

Only the HQ can provide a statement recording the source of the transfer.

 

Some expats have their pensions paid directly to their Thai bank accounts.

Again though, many of these financial institutions have a separate method of transfer arrangements with BOT (Bank of Thailand). These transfers record as BTN or Bahtnet depending on your bank.

It's a much bigger issue than just Transferwise, it's having the knowledge of how the Thai banking system operates and what constitutes a foreign transaction.

From my personal experience, when a Thai bank statement is produced to an IO they are completely flummoxed, probably the first time they've ever actually seen a bank statement.

It would be much simpler if all foreign transaction were recorded as 'International', but unfortunately that isn't how the Thai banking system works. 

 

[Tanoshi]

13 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

So, my question comes to this: let's simplify it by saying I got the last extension using the deposit method and then I start receiving the required deposits every month from the first month of the new extension period.  So, I plan to qualify by income at next year's renewal.  That being the plan, what if I were then immediately to draw down the balance below 800k and then below 400k.   At the time of next year's application when I have 12 months of monthly foreign transfers, will I have a problem because I didn't maintain the minimum balances under the deposit rule?

If you use the income method, then the conditions of the funds method are non existent.

[phutoie2]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

It's a wire transfer, a Foreign Telex transaction, exactly the same as foreign bank to Thai bank transactions.

It maybe a wire transfer, but no money moves across any borders, its moved from Banks within Thailand. I could write some more on how TMB the military Bank conducts this operation, but CC act/defamation etc.

[cmarshall]

16 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

If you use the income method, then the conditions of the funds method are non existent.

Unless the failure to maintain the 800k and the 400k violated the terms of my current extension.  Do we know that that is not the case?

[Tanoshi]

48 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is the information that many people have. Though there is no guarantee that every transfer will be coded as FTT as some people have posted, 10 out of 12 were FTT. 

 

It is certainly possible that TW has an agreement with Bangkok Bank (the only one that is somewhat consistent) that a TW transfer BB to BB is coded as FTT. 

 

As as I have said email TW. Unless there has been a very very recent change in the system you will get exactly the same answer.

 

here is a Telegraph article that you should believe.

UK TW system

I have never disputed that a TW transfer may be not be coded as an FTT transfer depending on which account of which bank paid to another bank.

 

I'm merely stating that while those who are fixated with just TW transfers, the problem of coding foreign transfers is much bigger because of the administration methods used by the Thai banking system.

 

Take you pick of transferring methods and if not with BKK, then there's a high probability it will not be recorded as a foreign transfer on your local bank statements. You can request statements from the HQ, or advice receipts detailing the source of the transactions, but it's a lot of messing around.