UK's Labour says it will back call for second Brexit referendum

[rixalex]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

No one is talking about not respecting the peoples decision, we are talking about giving them further choice on their decision which lacked clarity the first time around, a further choice for which there is no argument against despite your clearly weak parallel you drew to the Boston Tea Party. 

If it was a "further choice", then the choice would be regarding on what terms we leave. The choice wouldn't include reversing the last decision that hasn't yet been implemented.

[billd766]

16 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

this was the post indicating 21.48 Thai Baht for 1 GBP..... the site quoting 41.59 is https://www.xe.com/

Sadly XE is not a bank that anyone can use.

 

TransferWise is a bank we can use. The rate 5 minutes ago was 

 

1 GBP → 41.58302 THB

Mid-market exchange rate at 05:18 UTC 

[Loiner]

as is anybody stupid enough to follow him. Must stop trolling the leavers. 

But Remainers can’t stop themselves. A thread about an EU second referendum and they invariably fall back to the old favourites that Leavers are fascists racists and xenophobes. If that doesn’t work they revert to insults about populist movement leaders. Off topic or what?

Btw: I will follow him...follow him wherever he may go....


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Grouse]

36 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Hard, soft? The egg timer really came out of the box after the referendum. Leave voters obviously want out but most of those that I speak to genuinely also wanted a fair, pragmatic agreement and not a hard exit. It is rather obvious that the EU have been dictating the withdrawal negotiations, in all respects and with no real consideration of fairness in mind, since (and probably before) they started. Their own Article 50 does not give them the right to dictate terms so one-sidedly but the UK has allowed this. Why?

 

These lop-sided and so-called "negotiations" have been allowed by a weak and suspect PM and now it's too late to know if a sensible agreement might have been agreed, if we had had a genuine and neutral leader. Hard to find one these days, I know. I have to doubt if May had that much input into "her deal", which is so bad and which has really resulted in the mess we have now - along with the EU's fear of a demonstration of a  successful example of the withdrawal of any member - of course.   

I genuinely do not understand why May's individual red lines, which have so limited the withdrawal agreement, have never been discussed or debated in parliament.

 

It seems that a satisfactory deal could have been achieved

And agreed by both the EU and parliament.

 

I recall that in the run up to the referendum, many of the leading leavers were touting Norway and Switzerland!

 

You see, I smell a rat when the Tories bang on about respecting the result of the referendum. Why? Because it is a moral issue? Because it would've best for the typical family and typical business? Of course not! Call me cynical but I believe the Tories see personal gain as the motive to "respect" the referendum.

 

I would like to see parliament take control and properly debate the various ways forward. This should have happened two years ago. Then let's have parliament coalesce around a deal which maximises benefits and minimises damage. A decision should then be taken and the final deal ratified by referendum. If that takes a year, fine. Why the rush all of a sudden. 

[Grouse]

SCB will give you 41.0775 for a quid received by TT (SWIFT) more if you ask nicely and it's a large sum. Agree a rate first.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Hard, soft? The egg timer really came out of the box after the referendum. Leave voters obviously want out but most of those that I speak to genuinely also wanted a fair, pragmatic agreement and not a hard exit. It is rather obvious that the EU have been dictating the withdrawal negotiations, in all respects and with no real consideration of fairness in mind, since (and probably before) they started. Their own Article 50 does not give them the right to dictate terms so one-sidedly but the UK has allowed this. Why?

 

These lop-sided and so-called "negotiations" have been allowed by a weak and suspect PM and now it's too late to know if a sensible agreement might have been agreed, if we had had a genuine and neutral leader. Hard to find one these days, I know. I have to doubt if May had that much input into "her deal", which is so bad and which has really resulted in the mess we have now - along with the EU's fear of a demonstration of a  successful example of the withdrawal of any member - of course.   

Excellent post IMO.

 

Corbyn calling for a second referendum may pacify some Labour MPs, but it's going to alienate a lot of their voters.  Again, IMO.

 

I agree with remainer posts insofar as leavers expected the eu to actually negotiate a deal that worked for both sides (e.g. FTA), but May fell at the first hurdle (negotiating list), thereby making it very clear to the eu that the uk govt. was looking for a way to remain or leave in name only - so the eu had no reason to genuinely negotiate an acceptable deal.....

 

We now have both the tory and labour party supporting remain agendas!  Result - even more disillusion amongst the electorate when it comes to 'trusting' politicians ☹️.

[luckyluke]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

OK then. Beer and sprouts.

And chocolate. 

[dick dasterdly]

26 minutes ago, Grouse said:

SCB will give you 41.0775 for a quid received by TT (SWIFT) more if you ask nicely and it's a large sum. Agree a rate first.

I have noticed that the exchange rate used by SCB for TT is higher than that quoted on their website.

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

And chocolate. 

Prefer Swiss. 

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, rixalex said:

Well the last i heard, it wasn't cast in stone at all that things will just revert to normal, should we want to return. For a start, remainers are always going on about how the EU is collaborative, with all nations having a say. OK then, presumably they'll need to therefore be agreement for all 27 nations that they agree that Britain can simply go back to the previous agreement. Have all the nations agreed that? Even if they have, things will not return to as they were before because this time, if Britain calls for any reform of the EU or Britain disagrees with EU policy, the EU will no that Britain is never leaving their club, so much less incentive to change anything, and it's not like they were showing any incentive before.

Wrong, no need to seek the assent of the EU. It's our right to withdraw from Article 50. Nothing would change, our status would be unchanged from what it is now.

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Prefer Swiss.

I am Belgian, but like Ferrero. 

[Lemonltr]

If the politicians are true to their earlier promises any 2nd referendum would not include a question of whether we leave or not as that's already decided., but only whether May's deal or a WTO deal should be implemented. 

One danger I never hear mentioned is that if a second referendum is allowed it will be nigh impossible to refuse the Scottish National Party another referendum which might end up in a break up of the UK. 

[dick dasterdly]

33 minutes ago, Lemonltr said:

If the politicians are true to their earlier promises any 2nd referendum would not include a question of whether we leave or not as that's already decided., but only whether May's deal or a WTO deal should be implemented. 

One danger I never hear mentioned is that if a second referendum is allowed it will be nigh impossible to refuse the Scottish National Party another referendum which might end up in a break up of the UK. 

"If the politicians are true to their earlier promises any 2nd referendum would not include a question of whether we leave or not as that's already decided., but only whether May's deal or a WTO deal should be implemented."

 

I'd slightly amend that to 'whether May's deal or a genuine leave should be implemented'.

 

Does anyone disagree that May's deal is BRINO, and paying 39bn for the privilege?

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"If the politicians are true to their earlier promises any 2nd referendum would not include a question of whether we leave or not as that's already decided., but only whether May's deal or a WTO deal should be implemented."

 

I'd slightly amend that to 'whether May's deal or a genuine leave should be implemented'.

 

Does anyone disagree that May's deal is BRINO, and paying 39bn for the privilege?

May's deal is clearly BRINO. Corbyn's alternative is even more BRINO. The EU will not agree to any deal that is less BRINO than May's. That leaves a no deal exit, which most politicians, economists and any sane person would agree would be a complete disaster for the UK. What people also forget is that it would leave no alternative to a hard border in Ireland. Not an option.

 

That only leaves May's deal and remain to go on the ballot paper.

[aright]

3 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

It's actually "softly, softly, catchee monkey", a proverb coined by Lord Baden-Powel when he discovered that dividing responsibility between small groups brought the greatest efficiency to the team as a whole, not sure how that could apply to Brexit, but do tell. 

Originally LB-P got it from a Ghanaian proverb and it was bastardised to slowly, slowly………… by British Colonials. They used it to describe that rather than rush in, a slow and patient approach to a problem is often better; the same as the EU's federalization creep.

I used it in reference to a post which said "The EU is now demanding legal power to stop national legislation before it is approved an enacted"

It's reference to Brexit is what the UK will be leaving behind when it leaves the EU.

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

Who is quoting that rate and for what?

 

None of the banks I posted are showing 41.59.

 

KBank is showing 41.1845 as of 10 am this morning.

 

Twas a typo from the 'nasty man' that I corrected a few pages ago. Hopefully, as the mist clears and we see some more clarity on whether it is WA BRINO or Remain the rate will go steadily up but probably no more than pre-Brexit day. 

[beautifulthailand99]

44 minutes ago, Spidey said:

May's deal is clearly BRINO. Corbyn's alternative is even more BRINO. The EU will not agree to any deal that is less BRINO than May's. That leaves a no deal exit, which most politicians, economists and any sane person would agree would be a complete disaster for the UK. What people also forget is that it would leave no alternative to a hard border in Ireland. Not an option.

 

That only leaves May's deal and remain to go on the ballot paper.

1

Mine's Remain and a good incentive for all UK expats in the EU to make sure they are on the electoral roll before Ref 2 should it ever come and get all their families on board - hopefully die-hard Brexiteers will boycott this "travesty of democracy" and we can have a Remain landslide and then no more referenda about ANYTHING.  

[Kieran00001]

4 hours ago, Mavideol said:

wonder if you were in his position would you have done different....the vision of making 1 billion profit would have turn you back....is he the only one that betrayed jews ?

 

You don't just suddenly find yourself in the position to short sell the pound to the tune of 1 billion, you have to be preparing for these things.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

I genuinely do not understand why May's individual red lines, which have so limited the withdrawal agreement, have never been discussed or debated in parliament.

 

It seems that a satisfactory deal could have been achieved

And agreed by both the EU and parliament.

 

I recall that in the run up to the referendum, many of the leading leavers were touting Norway and Switzerland!

 

You see, I smell a rat when the Tories bang on about respecting the result of the referendum. Why? Because it is a moral issue? Because it would've best for the typical family and typical business? Of course not! Call me cynical but I believe the Tories see personal gain as the motive to "respect" the referendum.

 

I would like to see parliament take control and properly debate the various ways forward. This should have happened two years ago. Then let's have parliament coalesce around a deal which maximises benefits and minimises damage. A decision should then be taken and the final deal ratified by referendum. If that takes a year, fine. Why the rush all of a sudden. 

The current Brexit minister is a bad bastard. Going on today about no deal Brexit still being on the  table even after parliament voted by a large margin against a no deal Brexit!

 

Who do these bloody people think they are?

 

I smell a rat

 

WHY is nobody mentioning May's arbitrary and unilateral red lines? Why?

 

The EU have said the deal can not be reopened unless May moves the red lines. Does anyone know what they are?

 

I for one would have been happy to compromise, but I'm not putting up with this crap.

 

I tell you the CONs don't give a rat's ass about respecting the referendum result or anything else. It's just an obvious fig leaf to cover some scheme to all of our disadvantage.

 

Of course the morons are just being led by the nose to the shower blocks.

[Kieran00001]

4 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

So what was he sentenced to?

 

What he did was not illegal, are you trying to claim there was something alright about what he did?

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts have been reported and removed as well as the replies. 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

I genuinely do not understand why May's individual red lines, which have so limited the withdrawal agreement, have never been discussed or debated in parliament.

 

It seems that a satisfactory deal could have been achieved

And agreed by both the EU and parliament.

 

I recall that in the run up to the referendum, many of the leading leavers were touting Norway and Switzerland!

 

You see, I smell a rat when the Tories bang on about respecting the result of the referendum. Why? Because it is a moral issue? Because it would've best for the typical family and typical business? Of course not! Call me cynical but I believe the Tories see personal gain as the motive to "respect" the referendum.

 

I would like to see parliament take control and properly debate the various ways forward. This should have happened two years ago. Then let's have parliament coalesce around a deal which maximises benefits and minimises damage. A decision should then be taken and the final deal ratified by referendum. If that takes a year, fine. Why the rush all of a sudden. 

I don't think there was much discussion early because May was under the illusion she had it all under control. Ha bloody ha. The 2017 GE result should have been enough to change her mind. But nooooo.  

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Oh hello I thought you were informed. It would clearly show you are not.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/may/29/george-soros-drastic-action-needed-for-eurozone-to-survive

 

http://fortune.com/2018/05/30/george-soros-best-for-britain-brexit-campaign/

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/billionaire-tycoon-george-soros-gives-another-400k-to-antibrexit-campaign-best-for-britain-a3809821.html

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-soros/soros-backed-anti-brexit-group-targets-lawmakers-in-push-for-new-referendum-idUSKCN1J32W6

Just been reading up on Soros

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros

 

Seems to be s great man. We need more philanthropists like him. I like his politics also.

 

So he stuffed Lamont. Good. I lost a house when he raised interest rates to 16% on a 200,000 mortgage 30 years ago.

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

41 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

What he did was not illegal, are you trying to claim there was something alright about what he did?

I’m not trying to claim anything. I was asking a question. 

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You don't just suddenly find yourself in the position to short sell the pound to the tune of 1 billion, you have to be preparing for these things.

and so he did and when the time came he took his chances, in case you didn't know it's called business

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

So what was he sentenced to?

I've been researching Soros

 

He has been victim to all manner of right wing slurs and accusations

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/george-soros-ss-nazi-germany/

 

I do hope fake news doesn't appear here....

[beautifulthailand99]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

The current Brexit minister is a bad bastard. Going on today about no deal Brexit still being on the  table even after parliament voted by a large margin against a no deal Brexit!

 

Who do these bloody people think they are?

 

I smell a rat

 

WHY is nobody mentioning May's arbitrary and unilateral red lines? Why?

 

The EU have said the deal can not be reopened unless May moves the red lines. Does anyone know what they are?

 

I for one would have been happy to compromise, but I'm not putting up with this crap.

 

I tell you the CONs don't give a rat's ass about respecting the referendum result or anything else. It's just an obvious fig leaf to cover some scheme to all of our disadvantage.

 

Of course the morons are just being led by the nose to the shower blocks.

Tis more cock-up than conspiracy methinks. Interesting to see if Moggie brings his Hedge funds back if we remain. 

[melvinmelvin]

9 hours ago, Spidey said:

They also make probably the best lager in the world (contrary to Carlsberg's claim).

the best? Belgium?

 

strawberry lager, apple lager, date lager banana lager? you like that?

give me break, Carlsberg any time

 

or preferably lager from north Germany or Czech R or Slovakia.

 

[Spidey]

22 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

the best? Belgium?

 

strawberry lager, apple lager, date lager banana lager? you like that?

give me break, Carlsberg any time

 

or preferably lager from north Germany or Czech R or Slovakia.

 

Stella

[melvinmelvin]

6 hours ago, Spidey said:

Wrong, no need to seek the assent of the EU. It's our right to withdraw from Article 50. Nothing would change, our status would be unchanged from what it is now.

you are quite right

status same same, from a formal  point of view

 

but my god - status and clout - UK would far down compared to before A50