11 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

OK - let's have another referendum

Still waiting for the proof not what could happen to prove it.

3 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I disagree. what would be lost is democracy, as there might as well be a 3rd or 4th. I am not against a second referendum but lets leave first and have some time away from the EU, say 10-20 years.

 

All those people shouting for a referendum. You realise you can't even accept the first one.

 

Erm the one mired in electoral fraud?!

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Remain suppprters are willing to put it to the test, and topically Labour are offering the chance to do so.

 

You however are reluctant to do so.

 

If you are not willing to test the number don’t expect the rest of us to believe the number is correct,

Read my previous post 53 and 56

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I reckon we have a quorum with a clear majority in favour of a referendum!

Where in this thread. possibly but as you know TV is not the UK.

1 minute ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Read my previous post 53 and 56

I have.

 

Your angst is palpable.

 

Yeah, I can see why people can't accept it.
It was subject to manipulation by Putin and also the leave campaign used blatant lies about national health to win it (narrowly)

I can assure you that the 17.4 million took about as much notice of Putin as they would of you.
What blatant lies about the NHS? We haven’t Left yet, so no lie. The red bus? They decided their ballot on 40 years of EU experience, not a sticker on a bus.
Leave voters generally don’t spend their lives on social media (or TVF) and were not as gullible as the Remainers obviously still are.


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9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Remain suppprters are willing to put it to the test, and topically Labour are offering the chance to do so.

 

You however are reluctant to do so.

 

If you are not willing to test the number don’t expect the rest of us to believe the number is correct,

Of course Remainers want another attempt to win, because they lost the first time. 

 

Would they still be calling for a second referendum to see if anyone had changed their minds if they'd won the first one? Of course not. It's simply a bunch of sore losers who are unwilling to accept the result of the largest democratic vote in British history. Leave would romp home in a second vote, but they don't need to because they won the first one.

 

If Remain had won I would have accepted the result. It's telling that the so called "intellectuals" on the Remain side lack the maturity to do the same.

2 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

I can assure you that the 17.4 million took about as much notice of Putin as they would of you.
What blatant lies about the NHS? We haven’t Left yet, so no lie. The red bus? They decided their ballot on 40 years of EU experience, not a sticker on a bus.
Leave voters generally don’t spend their lives on social media (or TVF) and were not as gullible as the Remainers obviously still are.


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Another one afraid of the results of a second referendum. 

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Of course Remainers want another attempt to win, because they lost the first time. 

 

Would they still be calling for a second referendum to see if anyone had changed their minds if they'd won the first one? Of course not. It's simply a bunch of sore losers who are unwilling to accept the result of the largest democratic vote in British history. Leave would romp home in a second vote, but they don't need to because they won the first one.

 

If Remain had won I would have accepted the result. It's telling that the so called "intellectuals" on the Remain side lack the maturity to do the same.

‘In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way.’

(Nigel Farage)

 

Though to to be fair, I’m sure he wishes he could put his gob into reverse on that one.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Another one afraid of the results of a second referendum. 

Why does it matter to you so much as you have clearly stated you are not British.

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

‘In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way.’

(Nigel Farage)

 

Though to to be fair, I’m sure he wishes he could put his gob into reverse on that one.

 

 

I have had a flashback. I thought this was a thread from 2016 after the leave campaign won. The same phrases resurfacing. Come on Chomps you can do better than that!

1 minute ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Why does it matter to you so much as you have clearly stated you are not British.

Global "populist nationalist" movements like Brexit are all part of the rising illiberalism and I'm against such movements wherever they occur. 

5 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I have had a flashback. I thought this was a thread from 2016 after the leave campaign won. The same phrases resurfacing. Come on Chomps you can do better than that!

It was a flashback - Farage’s words right out of his own mouth.

 

As true today as it was back then.

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Another one afraid of the results of a second referendum. 

And another one that wants a second go because it didn't quite work out first time. A repetitively pathetic losers chant.

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Global "populist nationalist" movements like Brexit are all part of the rising illiberalism and I'm against such movements wherever they occur. 

And I'm against so-called liberals who actually demonstrate illiberal ideas by opposing freedom of choice.

Just now, nauseus said:

And I'm against so-called liberals who actually demonstrate illiberal ideas by opposing freedom of choice.

A second referendum represents freedom of choice. 

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm an American very concerned about the survival of Western Liberal democracies and supportive of the western alliance against the illiberal forces (axis of autocracy) of Russia, China, Iran, etc. 

In that case you should be opposed to the emerging structure and goals of the EU.

Just now, Jingthing said:

A second referendum represents freedom of choice. 

As did the first. So celebrate!

3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

I can assure you that the 17.4 million took about as much notice of Putin as they would of you.
What blatant lies about the NHS? We haven’t Left yet, so no lie. The red bus? They decided their ballot on 40 years of EU experience, not a sticker on a bus.
Leave voters generally don’t spend their lives on social media (or TVF) and were not as gullible as the Remainers obviously still are.


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Well you must have extraordinary abilities if you think that you can know WHY everyone voted one way or the other. Oh 40 years of EU experience......really........evidence please, did someone interview millions of people behind our backs. No Immigration or Racism issues at all..........really.

You've missed the point about Putin, of course nobody listens directly to him. He exerts his influence through secret channels, he is ex KGB. Cambridge Analytica, Aaron Banks mysterious £8M, discreet Social media campaigns. etc. 

Farage disowned the £350m for NHS the day after the referendum, he wants to sell it to the Yanks remember. The whole point about the bus was that it was a blatant lie, out there in the open for all to see, so a completely undeniable lie. We don't even send £350m to the EU in the first place, Thatcher's rebate reduces it to £250 to £275m. This doesn't even take account of the subsidies we get back which take it down to c£160m. Just a big lie, live with it.

Global "populist nationalist" movements like Brexit are all part of the rising illiberalism and I'm against such movements wherever they occur. 

I’m all for populist nationalist movements. They are very popular with the majority of people.
Yeah, that libertarian stuff never really does much good for most of us, only those with some sort of axe to grind. Those liberals are usually very illiberal when it comes to views other than their own.


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1 minute ago, nauseus said:

And I'm against so-called liberals who actually demonstrate illiberal ideas by opposing freedom of choice.

Choice is one thing, but ‘informed choice’ is something completely different.

 

You seem to have a problem with ‘informed choice’.

 

A couple of posts have been removed, can we discuss the topic please not other members thank you.

1 minute ago, Loiner said:

I’m all for populist nationalist movements. They are very popular with the majority of people.
Yeah, that libertarian stuff never really does much good for most of us, only those with some sort of axe to grind. Those liberals are usually very illiberal when it comes to views other than their own.


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You should perhaps read a bit of history on ‘populist nationalist movements’.

3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

I’m all for populist nationalist movements. They are very popular with the majority of people.
Yeah, that libertarian stuff never really does much good for most of us, only those with some sort of axe to grind. Those liberals are usually very illiberal when it comes to views other than their own.


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Posted as background for others --

https://www.policycorner.org/en/2017/06/19/the-threat-of-illiberal-populism/

Quote

 

The Threat of Illiberal Populism

Populism, a political ideology built on animus against the ruling establishment, has taken an illiberal turn. Illiberal populists are convincing a growing number of voters that isolationism and strongman-leadership are the ways to protect their countries against the perceived threats of globalization and return their countries to an imagined greatness of the past. They incite hatred against minorities, champion beggar-thy-neighbor economic policies, and seek to circumvent democratic processes.

 

 

8 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...Britain's opposition Labour Party said on Monday it would back calls for a second referendum on Brexit if parliament rejects its alternative plan for leaving the European Union..."

 

Good for them!

 

Brexiteers will (rightly) say that a referendum has already occurred and ignoring it is counter to good Democracy, and they are right. However, the UK is truly, truly in the proverbial gap between a rock and a hard place, and politics is the art of the possible. 

 

To those who believe that leaving the EU without a transition agreement in place is okay, I would argue that the politicians have a duty, somewhat similar to the Hippocratic oath of doctors, of doing the least harm. A 'Hard Brexit' is the equivalent of leaping off a tall building and making landing arrangements on the way down.

 

It isn't very democratic, it is far, far, far from the ideal solution, but it is the least worst idea.

 

Put it all on the table (yes, again) and let the people decide (yes, again).

 

 

 

Another referendum would be greater democracy, there's nothing at all undemocratic in offering more democracy.

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Another referendum would be greater democracy, there's nothing at all undemocratic in offering more democracy.

Lets have a third, forth and fifth. Lets have one straight after the second one Lets have one every two years. Do you see how ridiculous it sounds.

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Exactly. 

The main reason the Brexiteers want to suppress a fresh voice of the people is that they know in their hearts they would lose it. 

Why would anyone want to win something twice, now that's just plain silly. Anyhow the general concensus is that Parliament are not in favour of another vote too. So pretty much a non starter.

22 minutes ago, Loiner said:

I’m all for populist nationalist movements. They are very popular with the majority of people.
Yeah, that libertarian stuff never really does much good for most of us, only those with some sort of axe to grind. Those liberals are usually very illiberal when it comes to views other than their own.


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If populist nationalist movements were actually very popular with the majority we would see them elected, however there is not one single populist nationalist MP currently in UK parliament, get it now?

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Exactly. 

The main reason the Brexiteers want to suppress a fresh voice of the people is that they know in their hearts they would lose it. 

Not correct at all.

 

Would you and all the Remainers be happy if there was a second referendum but before it was completed it was abandoned in favour of a 3rd referendum?

 

A simple yes or no answer.

 
If populist nationalist movements were actually very popular with the majority we would see them elected, however there is not one single populist nationalist MP currently in UK parliament, get it now?

UKIP 12.7% at 2015.
Wait for the next GE. Get it then.


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