Banking Solution Needed - Moved to Thailand permanently from UK - How to handle banking?

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, theoldgit said:

I also bank in the IoM using my Thai address, I recently advised the bank that I had moved home within Thailand, I subsequently received a phone call and a letter asking for proof that my wife and I lived at our new address, it wasn't that easy to supply what they wanted within their timeframe, even now I don't know if they'll be satisfied with what I've sent them.

 

I had this problem with my Luxembourg bank, wouldn't accept credit card or internet bills or a letter from my employer. Eventually got a very nice letter from the local ampur office (in Thai of course) issued for free, had it officially translated (not free) and EMSed to the bank (they wouldn't accept scanned on email), talk about a pain in the butt.

 

[theoldgit]

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

I had this problem with my Luxembourg bank, wouldn't accept credit card or internet bills or a letter from my employer. Eventually got a very nice letter from the local ampur office (in Thai of course) issued for free, had it officially translated (not free) and EMSed to the bank (they wouldn't accept scanned on email), talk about a pain in the butt.

 

Yes, over the phone they said they would accept an Amex Statement, but the letter said no credit card bill.

They will accept my wifes life isurance, and will get it translated themselves, not sure if they'll charge us for that. Our utilities are billed by the Juristic Person on our estate, we rent a house and the landline is in the owners name, they won't accept a mobile bill, which are in our own names.

I think my Civil Service Pension providers have recognised my address, so I could have used that acknowledgement, I think I used my IoM Bank Statement to satisfy them.
I fully understand that they need to comply with banking regulations, but they need to give us a fighting chance.
Lets see what happens when they receive what I've sent.

[salavan]

23 hours ago, Crossy said:

Don't over-think the issue, many of us just do the following.

 

CURRENT ACCOUNT:- Maintain a UK address, parents, kids, siblings even friends. Move your accounts there, do all your business online, I've not been in a UK bank for probably 25 years.

 

Ditto for CREDIT CARDS.

 

INVESTMENTS (I would look at moving to an offshore based platform, no direct experience there).

 

In 20 odd years of being a UK citizen living outside the UK (and non-resident for tax purposes) I have only ever had one problem. Barclaycard decided that since I wasn't spending money in the UK I wasn't entitled to their card and pulled the plug. I paid off the small balance and cut up the card, their loss.

 

I still have a UK current account (Nationwide) and credit cards (Nationwide and MBNA). I also maintain a Lloyds International account in the IoM (Sterling, Euro, USD) as I get funds in several currencies, don't want to lose on exchange rates. Both use my UK address although I'm changing Lloyds to be the Thai address.

 

The banks won't magically know you're out of the country unless you tell them (Barclaycard are psychic although it took them 10 years of me not spending a cent in the UK before they cottoned on). If you're worried about being shopped by your internet banking, get a VPN with servers in the UK and bank via that.

 

In other words, don't burn your bridges, do nothing until you have to.

 

EDIT I will say that I am (very) gradually moving all my banking to be either in Thailand or IoM. I have unsecured Thai credit cards (I still work) and, at least currently, most of my money is earned here in Baht so unlike most I ship out USD and GBP. UK cards carry small balances and the Nationwide account exists mainly to pay them.

 

What is a VPN

[Mike Teavee]

23 hours ago, canerandagio said:

Hello all,

 

Surely I am not the first one facing this, so I would like to ask about others' experience.

(Obviously I am doing my own research too, but usually I find leads from TV quite useful, so I am posting here too, in other words 'it is part of my research'...)

 

The context is this: I am from the UK, I now live in Thailand and I am about to lose my UK residency.

 

My questions are basically about banking, and what banking solution I can come up with, either in the UK or elsewhere.

 

Here they are:

- CURRENT ACCOUNT: I have a UK current account which I cannot keep if I am not a resident (I also have a Thai account). 

What have others done? Open an alternative account in the UK? Or open an account elsewhere? (I don't know why I am thinking of Singapore, although I don't have connections there).

I have a Thai account.

 

- CREDIT CARDS

At the moment I have cards based on my UK banks. They will last another year or two, but maybe will be revoked once I lose my residency.

How can I get non-Thai cards (based in hard currency) as a Thai resident? Is this related to my Current Account query?

 

- INVESTMENTS

My savings are all invested in funds with a major investment platform in the UK. They are all foreign-based funds expressed in GBP.

Leaving aside any Brexit or pound-related concerns, my question is...I know that as a non-resident I can no longer add money to this platform (haven't got any anyway), but I am still liable to pay tax in the UK for any capital gain I make on these investments.

Is it worth switching to a foreign (Singapore-based?) platform? Anyone done anything like that?

 

Thanks in advance,

straydog

Current Account: Which Bank are you with as I have no problem with Barclays despite being UK Non-Resident for > 10 years (and they know as they were the ones who moved me to Singapore in 2008), also don't have a problem maintaining my One Account (RBS) Mortgage, Debit/Credit cards (Again fully disclosed to them I live OS).

 

Credit Cards: - Unlike a previous poster, I have no problem maintaining my Barclaycard but I do use it 2-3 times a year when I go visit so maybe if I were to stop using it I'd have the same problem.

 

Investments: The only thing you cannot put any additional funds into is an ISA (Though Barclays write to me in Singapore every year to remind me I haven't used my allowance) you most certainly can continue to invest into other things (I do it all the time) again who is your Broker (I'm with Barclays Stockbrokers).

 

Re: Singapore accounts, Almost all require you to live here but Citibank do an IPB (International Personal Banking) for non-residents so might be something to look into (I bank with Citi and they're very good, plus get free cash withdrawals using their ATMs anywhere on the planet, also at some partners like Maybank in Malaysia) - Alternatives would be Premier banking with HSBC, UOB, Stan Chart etc... 

 

Link to Citi IPB https://www.ipb.citibank.com.sg/portal/home_english/citi_home.htm?lid=IPBENCBGCIMITLHome 

Please note you need a minimum funding of US$200,000/ s$250,000 SGD. (Same as CitiGold)

Edited March 4, 2019 by Mike Teavee
Edit to add link to IPB

[Crossy]

10 minutes ago, salavan said:

What is a VPN

 

A Virtual Private Network, basically it allows you pretend to be somewhere you are not, it also adds a layer of security to your internet experience.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_private_network

 

Many options both free (slow) and paid. Check out the technology forum for recommendations from satisfied (and not so satisfied) users.

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

23 hours ago, Pilotman said:

It seem,s a little odd, certainly impractical, to voluntarily give up your UK residency.  All you will do is cause trouble for yourself in all manner of ways, UK bank accounts being one. Crossy has given you the right advice. 

You don't "Give Up" your UK Residency you become Non-Resident for Tax purposes and it's not something you choose to do voluntarily there are rules that govern whether your UK Resident for Tax or not, e.g. 

• In the UK for < 16 days in any one Tax Year - Automatically Non-Resident
• Non-Resident for 3+ Years and In the UK for at < 46 Days - Automatically Non-Resident
• Full-Time Job overseas and in UK for < 91 Days - Automatically Non-Resident

At this point there's a review of your "Ties" to the UK to work out whether you're more closely aligned in the UK or Out 

• In the UK for 183+ Days - Automatically Resident

Here's a link to the Statutory Residence Test https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/547118/160803_RDR3_August2016_v2_0final_078500.pdf 

 

But I think what the OP means is should he tell his banks that he's no longer domiciled in the UK (I'm not being pedantic, that's the language that's used to distinguish between where you Live & where you pay taxes to)

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

23 hours ago, canerandagio said:

Yes, you are right on the first point. As long as I don't get in trouble with HMRC for keeping an account (they will surely be told I am abroad).

The investment chaps (Hargraves Landsdown) I will contact tomorrow again. They already told me I can shift money between funds, they also said I can't invest in ISAs, and they said I can keep the account. Now I have to figure out what I need to do to get the money out when I need them ????

Obviously if I can avoid CGT by shifting the lot to Singapore or elsewhere then I will look into it... but for the time being I can't even move out 5000 GBP ???? Will call them tomorrow and declare I left.

CGT (NB Excludes Property, you're still liable for CGT on any profits from the sale, profit being the difference between it's value as at (IRC) April 2015 & what you sell it for.

1. Any assets you purchase after becoming Non-Resident should be free from CGT
2. After 5 complete years as a non-resident all of your assets (Excluding Property)will be free from CGT

... This is exactly why I told the UK Tax man as soon as I could that I was no-longer UK Resident for Tax purposes

 

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, Saltire said:

The other things you have to cash in if you register as non resident are all Premium Bond holdings,

Not so.

 

https://www.nsandi.com/i-live-outside-uk-can-i-invest-with-nsi

 

Not only can non-residents retain all their existing bonds but they can also buy more up to the normal limit. Local requirements in the country of residence may prohibit the holding of bonds as they are a sort of lottery, but that has nothing to do with NS&I.

[BWPattaya]

You are a UK Citizen with a UK passport. How can you give up your residency and/or citizenship.?

My pension providers, including the UK State Pension people have my address here in Thailand. My UK Bank knows I live here and sends ATM and credit cards here. 

As someone else posted, you are overthinking things

Edited March 4, 2019 by BWPattaya
Spelling error

[Antonymous]

3 hours ago, Saltire said:

 

The other things you have to cash in if you register as non resident are all Premium Bond holdings, and playing the National Lottery online, 

 

Unless there’s been a very recent change in the law, this is not true.

 

I am domiciled in Thailand and am a non-resident of the UK for tax purposes. And I’ve had UK Premium Bonds for over 50 years. I notified NS&I of my change of address in Thailand a couple of years ago and they wrote to acknowledge same. And kindly let me know that I hadn’t won anything!

 

3 hours ago, Saltire said:

 

 

[gamini]

On 3/3/2019 at 1:38 PM, BritManToo said:

Don't tell them.

And you probably won't be living in Thailand permanently, I'm guessing your VISA/extension says 1 year at the most.

Why shouldn't he be moving here permanently. Most of my friends would never go back to the UK under any circumstances. 

[gamini]

On 3/3/2019 at 1:28 PM, Crossy said:

Don't over-think the issue, many of us just do the following.

 

CURRENT ACCOUNT:- Maintain a UK address, parents, kids, siblings even friends. Move your accounts there, do all your business online, I've not been in a UK bank for probably 25 years.

 

Ditto for CREDIT CARDS.

 

INVESTMENTS (I would look at moving to an offshore based platform, no direct experience there).

 

In 20 odd years of being a UK citizen living outside the UK (and non-resident for tax purposes) I have only ever had one problem. Barclaycard decided that since I wasn't spending money in the UK I wasn't entitled to their card and pulled the plug. I paid off the small balance and cut up the card, their loss.

 

I still have a UK current account (Nationwide) and credit cards (Nationwide and MBNA). I also maintain a Lloyds International account in the IoM (Sterling, Euro, USD) as I get funds in several currencies, don't want to lose on exchange rates. Both use my UK address although I'm changing Lloyds to be the Thai address.

 

The banks won't magically know you're out of the country unless you tell them (Barclaycard are psychic although it took them 10 years of me not spending a cent in the UK before they cottoned on). If you're worried about being shopped by your internet banking, get a VPN with servers in the UK and bank via that.

 

In other words, don't burn your bridges, do nothing until you have to.

 

EDIT I will say that I am (very) gradually moving all my banking to be either in Thailand or IoM. I have unsecured Thai credit cards (I still work) and, at least currently, most of my money is earned here in Baht so unlike most I ship out USD and GBP. UK cards carry small balances and the Nationwide account exists mainly to pay them.

 

I would advise them to move all his money to Thailand. The Thai baht, is a strong currency performing better than the UK pound. After brexit the pound will go down.

[Antonymous]

3 minutes ago, gamini said:

I would advise them to move all his money to Thailand. The Thai baht, is a strong currency performing better than the UK pound. After brexit the pound will go down. 

Lot to be said for that.

 

I closed all my offshore (outside Thailand) bank accounts seven years ago. I finally got tired of all the snoopy 'Know Your Customer' forms and requirements to call them to explain every transaction. After I had an account frozen because it received money they regarded as suspect (it was perfectly legit) I shut it down.

 

Never had a problem with Thai banks (several accounts at different banks). When I receive funds from overseas I email the inward remittance dept of the head office in Bangkok and ask them to email me the inward remittance receipt for the transaction. They oblige same day and that's all I need to show if I ever want to send money out of Thailand later.

[manchega]

I was told this by a helpful local banker in UK

 

it is none of the banks nor the governments business if you no longer reside in the UK

 

so just don't tell em

 

better for you in the long term to have some money that can't be touched by the evil thai government 

[BritManToo]

25 minutes ago, gamini said:

Why shouldn't he be moving here permanently. Most of my friends would never go back to the UK under any circumstances. 

It ain't what it was, can't imagine a newcomer wanting to stay here.

We all got trapped here a while back.

[BritManToo]

26 minutes ago, gamini said:

I would advise them to move all his money to Thailand. The Thai baht, is a strong currency performing better than the UK pound. After brexit the pound will go down.

That worked so well for the guys that ended up in a Thai jail on a trumped up charge and their bank accounts seized.

I would actually say the complete opposite, don't move more than you need to spend in Thailand for the coming month.

Edited March 4, 2019 by BritManToo

[Antonymous]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

That worked so well for the guys that ended up in a Thai jail on a trumped up charge and their bank accounts seized.

I would actually say the complete opposite, don't move more than you need to spend in Thailand for the coming month.

If you are the sort of person who engages in activities that may get you locked up in jail and bank accounts seized, I'd agree with BritManToo. I don't know anyone like that personally, but there may be some on TV reading this.

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, Antonymous said:

If you are the sort of person who engages in activities that may get you locked up in jail and bank accounts seized, I'd agree with BritManToo. I don't know anyone like that personally, but there may be some on TV reading this.

You mean like vaping?

[edwardflory]

I have posted this several times. IF you have a THAI BANK ACCOUNT and a AMERICAN Bank account the easiest way for ""ME"" to transfer money to Thailand is: [[[[ Other countries read all!!! ]]]]

Go INSIDE the THAI bank where you have your THAI bank account, go to a teller, give them your FOREIGN DEBIT or CREDIT card with instructions to deposit monies directly into YOUR BANK ACCOUNT.

I use XE Currency converter as my exchange cost guidline

I have found this is the easiest way and most economical way for ME. My last transfer for example, I went to MY bank and transfered 21000 THB ( to buy a new TV ) to my "households expense" account from my American bank.

XE QUOTE for 21000THB $668.43USD ... Used as a rate comparison.

MY COST for 21000THB transfered and deposited $670.45USD.  This includes all bank fees and exchange charges. ( done in under 5 minutes ) $2.02USD TOTAL charges   I have never had total charges exceed $5.00USD. Note, I have a Senior ( citizen ) bank account in the US, this might be a factor.

Went outside, withdrew 17,500THB at the ATM, now I am watching my new TV ( using as a Android box monitor ) as I wrote this a few days ago.

 

In your case, maintain a UK bank account and address if possible, trust a relative?

DO A TEST TRANSFER of 10,000 to 20,000THB to compare YOUR charges.

OTHER countries give it a shot.

 

I really would like to hear ( really never have ) from people who try this method and the results. 

 

[yogi100]

On 3/3/2019 at 6:47 AM, Pilotman said:

It seem,s a little odd, certainly impractical, to voluntarily give up your UK residency.  All you will do is cause trouble for yourself in all manner of ways, UK bank accounts being one. Crossy has given you the right advice. 

So has BritManToo.

 

I don't know many UK ex pats but two of them can no longer see themselves staying there for long because of the expense and the forth coming visa regulations and that's just the ones they know about so for.

 

The both live In Pattaya and now that the novelty of what used to be cheap booze and women has worn off there is little to keep them there.

 

The last thing older fellows want to be doing is uprooting themselves and having to change location especially when it means having to change their country of residence as well.

[shaurene]

On 3 March 2019 at 1:54 PM, canerandagio said:

You are right, and that's what I have done for some time. But I can't hide this from HMRC really, it's risky, and in any case - as said below - the investment bank now simply blocked everything until I prove my residency (switching to a friend's address didn't work, they want to see the gas bill on my name, lol).

That should be easy, get an old bill from your friends house and get a copy made in Thailand, 1,000 Baht with what ever name etc on. 

If you go up to Liverpool your can get any type you want. 

[Pilotman]

10 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

So has BritManToo.

 

I don't know many UK ex pats but two of them can no longer see themselves staying there for long because of the expense and the forth coming visa regulations and that's just the ones they know about so for.

 

The both live In Pattaya and now that the novelty of what used to be cheap booze and women has worn off there is little to keep them there.

 

The last thing older fellows want to be doing is uprooting themselves and having to change location especially when it means having to change their country of residence as well.

well if you come here for all the wrong reasons then disillusionment is almost bound to follow. 

people seem to forget that any 'Extension of Stay' is a temporary permission to remain in Thailand for a maximum of 12 months from it being granted. Reading many comments on TV, some expats have clearly interpreted this as a permanent right to remain. it is not.  

[wgdanson]

5 hours ago, Saltire said:

and playing the National Lottery online, 

 

If you set up a Direct Debit and always use the same numbers WHEN YOU ARE IN UK, you are allowed to play.

[yogi100]

7 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

well if you come here for all the wrong reasons then disillusionment is almost bound to follow. 

people seem to forget that any 'Extension of Stay' is a temporary permission to remain in Thailand for a maximum of 12 months from it being granted. Reading many comments on TV, some expats have clearly interpreted this as a permanent right to remain. it is not.  

 

What are these wrong reasons?

 

I do not live in Pattaya but I visit the place for all the right reasons as far as I'm concerned. You'll probably find that 98% of all male falang visitors to Pattaya also go there for those same reasons. It's what Pattaya is famous for but when the bars and girls lose their attraction and you vector in a few negative aspects there is very little that may cause a fellow to remain a resident there.

 

The two fellows I'm referring to also came to Pattaya for all the right reasons as far as they were concerned originally. But things change.

 

I'm fully aware of what 'extension of stay' implies as probably are my two ex pat chums who have been resident in the LOS for several years. It's self explanatory.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Proboscis]

There is the world of difference between residency for tax purposes and residency in other respects. In relation to banking, banks have to obey rules regarding money laundering. If you have already banked with your branch for a while, a chat with your bank manager (or more likely someone on a phone line - then best to tape the call) will give you the finer details on what is involved. You could start with saying that you will be staying abroad for part of the year and what would happen if you stayed for longer.

 

You should have an address in the UK. A trusted family friend is best. I have managed to use and pay for a mail answering service in Ireland but perhaps that is only because the address looks like a private address.

 

No one will revoke any card unless you revoke them. I have no idea whether they will accept an address in Thailand as a primary address but you could include this in your questions about "spending substantial time abroad" now that you are retiring.

 

Some banks have special accounts for international customers - for instance, Barclays have/had a "Barclays International" division but I do not see any discernible difference between what they offer and what an account in a local branch offers. Besides, they have minimum deposit limits after which charges are levied.

 

I would not be about to lose my banking facilities in my home country for a host of reasons. First, they are reliable and safe. Second, you can use them to buy stuff online and if something goes wrong you have a chance of rectifying it or making a complaint that sticks. 

 

One of the features of British banks is that they can take a lot of money from you when you engage in transactions that involve a foreign currency - that includes ATM use in Thailand, buying online in a foreign currency and making transfers in Sterling to accounts in Baht. They do this by both charging you a fee and then giving you a horrible exchange rate.

 

To get around this, I use a company called Transferwise (I have no shareholding in this company and I make no financial or other gain from mentioning this company) to transfer funds when there is a change of currency. You have to register with them first, which takes time (they have to avoid fraud and money laundering). Once registered, you contact them and ask them a quote - eg how much Sterling for 80,000 Baht in a Thai account? They will quote you the amount and you have a period of time in which to transfer the money in Sterling to their account in the UK, with a code they will give you. Be aware that some banks try to block your transfer - I have to gather concrete evidence of this and threaten my bank with legal action to force them to raise the block.

 

I have heard that Transferwise also have a card system - but I have not tried it. You may want to contact them and ask.

 

Last point - there is no reason why you cannot add further funds to investments you have made unless they are covered by specific rules regarding tax residency or they are employment related. Given your situation, you might want to sit down with an accountant and perhaps a lawyer to go over your affairs as you frankly seem a little naive about your situation.

 

Last point - I have accounts with several banks in the UK and Ireland with full knowledge of the banks. There is no problem with this. I would not dream of giving up these accounts, not least that although I believe that the UK will suffer economically from Brexit (even an agreed Brexit), I don't think that the currency will collapse or that the currency will go into an unrecoverabe spiral. However, would I be so sure about the Thai Baht? No! Given all the convenience and security that I enjoy from Banking in a European setting, I would have to be mad to close up accounts and just to rely on a Thai bank. At the end of the day, it is always possible that Thailand could decide they are giving up on your particular visa and you will not be allowed to stay in the Kingdom for periods of time. How would you access your funds then?

[Letseng]

On 3/3/2019 at 1:51 PM, canerandagio said:

Yes, you are right on the first point. As long as I don't get in trouble with HMRC for keeping an account (they will surely be told I am abroad).

The investment chaps (Hargraves Landsdown) I will contact tomorrow again. They already told me I can shift money between funds, they also said I can't invest in ISAs, and they said I can keep the account. Now I have to figure out what I need to do to get the money out when I need them ????

Obviously if I can avoid CGT by shifting the lot to Singapore or elsewhere then I will look into it... but for the time being I can't even move out 5000 GBP ???? Will call them tomorrow and declare I left.

Don't rely on a Singapore solution until you have spoken to them. I doubt they want your UK investments transfered to them. 

 

[musicscene]

On 3/3/2019 at 1:51 PM, canerandagio said:

Yes, you are right on the first point. As long as I don't get in trouble with HMRC for keeping an account (they will surely be told I am abroad).

The investment chaps (Hargraves Landsdown) I will contact tomorrow again. They already told me I can shift money between funds, they also said I can't invest in ISAs, and they said I can keep the account. Now I have to figure out what I need to do to get the money out when I need them ????

Obviously if I can avoid CGT by shifting the lot to Singapore or elsewhere then I will look into it... but for the time being I can't even move out 5000 GBP ???? Will call them tomorrow and declare I left.

What is stopping you moving £5,000 out? An investment company cannot hold on to your money 

[Ebumbu]

Businesses that call themselves "Virtual Mailboxes" are well established now. Most of them let you manage your account online. They will open your mail, scan it, and you decide if anything needs to be kept or shredded. You log in via browser or phone to manage your mail.

 

It's not expensive. They will also forward important mail to you, such as ATM card updates. That's what I use in the states. Just Google "Mail Forwarding Service UK" or "Virtual Mailbox UK." Easy solution. For UK Phone number: Google Voice (free), Skype, or many other paid services available. 

[Ebumbu]

To keep your UK cards, just buy something online from UK once a year.  ????

[NoshowJones]

On 3/3/2019 at 1:49 PM, Moonlover said:

I want to query you on this @Crossy I have lived in three different countries in the last 30 years and have never maintained a UK address whilst living abroad.

 

Nationwide B/S have always been aware of my whereabouts and have been quite happy to send correspondence, including card replacements, to my local address, wherever I am at the time. Including here in Thailand.

 

I do keep both my current and credit accounts active so that I don't suffer the fate that you have with yours.

 

So, back to @canerandagio the O/P, Crossy is right, don't over think it. Institutes in the UK are not going to suddenly 'cut you off' when you depart Britain's shores. Apart from the NHS of course!

 

 

When I first moved to Thailand, my Scottish bank would not send my debit card to Thailand, so I used my sister in laws address, but in recent years, my bank changed it's policy and now will send my debit card to Thailand and also my bank statements. They still allow me to live in Thailand even though I do not have a Scottish address.