Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes

[snowballthecat]

How to check fares with China Southern?

which searching engine?

Thanks!

[Bournville]

5 hours ago, snowballthecat said:

How to check fares with China Southern?

which searching engine?

Thanks!

Direct on their website https://global.csair.com/US/GB/Home

[Mike Teavee]

5 hours ago, snowballthecat said:

Checking the East route to Argentina....

 

Skyscanner allows such a search in Multi-destination setting....

So, I have to split the journey....

Lets'say HKT (Phuket)-SYD (Sydney)

SYD-BUE (Buenos Aires) 

Results in a 30 hour trip for 80,000 Baht, return fare, leaving in Dec coming back in Feb. 

So-so airlines: Air Asia, Air Asia X and LATAM (??) 

Same from BKK, but with Qantas:

 

BKK-SYD (13 hs)

SYD-BUE(22 hs)

77,000Baht.

 

Perhaps there are better options to fly East, but no aware of. Usually I input SCL, as Chile offers more options than Argentina, and it is a quick jump, anyway....

 

Hopper is full of searches, from KL, from HK, from HKT, from BKK. Christmas is in the air, and fares are High, whatever direction one may decide to take. 

Charges for changes are also very high, and with the uncertainty I am facing, I will get a one-way-ticket this time. 

No cheap.

 

I'd love to fly the East route & stop off at some places I've never visited on the way, but it's far cheaper for me to combine the trip with a trip to visit family in Manchester (UK) which I will be doing anyway, this way it's like I get to visit them twice (top & tail of the trip) at no/minimal extra cost.

 

It's still 80,000THB + 110,000 THB though, that's in Business Class, once I've settled in to being retired (be kind, it's only my 2nd day & I still need to go into the office on 6th December to do the formal exit... yes I'm still being paid until then ????) & not in a rush I'll look into the Economy pricing - Going the other way was coming out at 320-340,000 THB with the itinerary I was looking at (The Chinese Airlines didn't come up on my searches)

 

 

 

 

[uhuh]

9 hours ago, snowballthecat said:

Checking the East route to Argentina....

 

Skyscanner allows such a search in Multi-destination setting....

So, I have to split the journey....

Lets'say HKT (Phuket)-SYD (Sydney)

SYD-BUE (Buenos Aires) 

Results in a 30 hour trip for 80,000 Baht, return fare, leaving in Dec coming back in Feb. 

So-so airlines: Air Asia, Air Asia X and LATAM (??) 

Same from BKK, but with Qantas:

 

BKK-SYD (13 hs)

SYD-BUE(22 hs)

77,000Baht.

 

Perhaps there are better options to fly East, but no aware of. Usually I input SCL, as Chile offers more options than Argentina, and it is a quick jump, anyway....

 

Hopper is full of searches, from KL, from HK, from HKT, from BKK. Christmas is in the air, and fares are High, whatever direction one may decide to take. 

Charges for changes are also very high, and with the uncertainty I am facing, I will get a one-way-ticket this time. 

No cheap.

 

LATAM is good

Bit old-fashioned

[Bournville]

The Thai Baht has gotten stronger since my arrival in Thailand 4 years ago. In addition, prices have gone up.

 

In México, where I lived prior to 2014 for 3 years, the Peso has gotten weaker. Just this week the peso adjusted due to interest rate changes in Mexico. 

 

I can understand Mexican economics.. Just a bit. Thailands cause and affect in their economics make zero sense to me. 

 

Retirees and indeed younger entrepreneurs are looking for an economically sensible place to live. Thailand is a very poor in this regard. Real estate here in Thailand.. Land especially is about DOUBLE the cost of similar land in Mexico! Even the price of rice is more expensive in Thailand! 5555. When you think about rice... Thailand and China come to mind right? So why is rice cheaper in México? 

 

One if my favourite comparisons is clothes and shoes that are "Made in Thailand" and sold for less in Mexico than at Platinum market in BKK! Huh? This is a big mystery to me. 555

 

I'm not poor. But I'm not stupid with my money either. 

 

[snowballthecat]

21 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

I'd love to fly the East route & stop off at some places I've never visited on the way, but it's far cheaper for me to combine the trip with a trip to visit family in Manchester (UK) which I will be doing anyway, this way it's like I get to visit them twice (top & tail of the trip) at no/minimal extra cost.

 

It's still 80,000THB + 110,000 THB though, that's in Business Class, once I've settled in to being retired (be kind, it's only my 2nd day & I still need to go into the office on 6th December to do the formal exit... yes I'm still being paid until then ????) & not in a rush I'll look into the Economy pricing - Going the other way was coming out at 320-340,000 THB with the itinerary I was looking at (The Chinese Airlines didn't come up on my searches)

 

 

 

 

That is a very good deal for you, business class and two stop-overs to visit the family! two one way tickets, isn't it?

I wish you a smooth transition to retirement life. 

Why is it so pricey to fly East, which is the more natural way to fly?

And yes, China Southern looks quite attractive....don't know the record.... I don't mind any airline as long as it doesn't fall down. This is the only thing I check before buying a ticket. Accidents. 

From list of requirements to One- Only requirement!

 

[snowballthecat]

5 hours ago, Bournville said:

The Thai Baht has gotten stronger since my arrival in Thailand 4 years ago. In addition, prices have gone up.

 

In México, where I lived prior to 2014 for 3 years, the Peso has gotten weaker. Just this week the peso adjusted due to interest rate changes in Mexico. 

 

I can understand Mexican economics.. Just a bit. Thailands cause and affect in their economics make zero sense to me. 

 

Retirees and indeed younger entrepreneurs are looking for an economically sensible place to live. Thailand is a very poor in this regard. Real estate here in Thailand.. Land especially is about DOUBLE the cost of similar land in Mexico! Even the price of rice is more expensive in Thailand! 5555. When you think about rice... Thailand and China come to mind right? So why is rice cheaper in México? 

 

One if my favourite comparisons is clothes and shoes that are "Made in Thailand" and sold for less in Mexico than at Platinum market in BKK! Huh? This is a big mystery to me. 555

 

I'm not poor. But I'm not stupid with my money either. 

 

Yes, not a good deal anymore. 

 

But do not think only in terms of expensive/cheap. When it comes to choose a place to live there are many criteria discussed here. 

And honestly, how much rice do you eat?

 

How often you need to go shopping for clothes/shoes in Thailand?

I also arrived 3 years ago and still haven't got a single occassion to dress up. Is completely different to all other places I have lived before. 

 

You know better about daily life in Mexico. I will call a friend in Monterrey in these days to see her views. 

 

A few years ago, they couldn't even reach to the airport because criminals were attacking cars on the road. Have to spend a night at the airport hotel, if you want to live. 

 

What the video of Lake Chapala/ Ajijic talks about is True. 

Mexico is gripped in drug-wars, rival cartels killing each other and whoever is walking/driving on their way. 

 

So easy to die in a daytime shooting in Monterrey. I don't know now the situation, but it was like this a few years back. 

We shouldn't underestimate the value of feeling safe in Thailand. 

[Bournville]

2 hours ago, snowballthecat said:

Yes, not a good deal anymore. 

 

But do not think only in terms of expensive/cheap. When it comes to choose a place to live there are many criteria discussed here. 

And honestly, how much rice do you eat?

 

How often you need to go shopping for clothes/shoes in Thailand?

I also arrived 3 years ago and still haven't got a single occassion to dress up. Is completely different to all other places I have lived before. 

 

You know better about daily life in Mexico. I will call a friend in Monterrey in these days to see her views. 

 

A few years ago, they couldn't even reach to the airport because criminals were attacking cars on the road. Have to spend a night at the airport hotel, if you want to live. 

 

What the video of Lake Chapala/ Ajijic talks about is True. 

Mexico is gripped in drug-wars, rival cartels killing each other and whoever is walking/driving on their way. 

 

So easy to die in a daytime shooting in Monterrey. I don't know now the situation, but it was like this a few years back. 

We shouldn't underestimate the value of feeling safe in Thailand. 

Your post is a very common.. And with respect... Non first hand description of life in Mexico. I NEVER, in the 3 years I lived there, had any issues with crime. Yes... I have to be on my guard much more and lock the doors and windows. Apart from that... I actually had less stress in Mexico. Zero immigration stress. All the rules are clear.. Thorough .. And applied equally by everyone. The roads are MUCH easier... I can cross the road fairly safely. I can drive fairly safely. The weather has more diversity. Heat or cool... Easy to find. Freindly people who smile and take an interest in me.. Everywhere. Park benches to sit and enjoy an ice cream while I watch kids.. Families.. And beautiful señoritas... Everywhere. It's cheaper. Kinder and more fun. Thailand is more exotic... Better natural beauty close to cities. 

[Number 6]

I've not read the thread but Chile's currency just crashed and I believe Argentina's did not long ago. That's prolly good for you X rate but often does not make for a happy local population. Bunch of Mormons murdered in Mexico weeks ago.

 

For me it would be a few months in half dozen countries on a circuit. I used to do four and changed one out every year. Keep moving you'll be fine but it's not easy for the older folks.

[Sambotte]

On 11/3/2019 at 1:37 PM, uhuh said:

Friend is retiring to Colombia (he is 29), has been living there  for almost 3 years already,  speaks Spanish very well.

All prices that he ever quoted were cheaper than Thailand,  sometimes just a bit, sometimes a lot.

Exception: flights from Europe are cheaper to Thailand than to Colombia.

Especially cheap were condos (almost half the price of Thailand) and prostitutes (Colombians seem to be cheap, Venezuelans dirt cheap - but at 29 he gets lots of girls without paying by the hour, anyway).

 

2 problems: 

1. He is a businessman and got fleeced, lost almost 100,000 USD.

2. Healthcare. He doesn't have a solution for this. 

In my experience nothing beats how easy it is to rent a condo and a scooter in thailand. Tooks me 1 hour last time, monthly rate, no long lease, not even a deposit, very cheap, brand new, and quiet.

 

On the opposite, in Colombia i never found a way. Long lease, garantor, 6 month upfront, you name it, like in France, a pain in the ass. And no scooter to rent.

Hotel quality is of course way behind Thailand (unbeatable), small beds, very noisy... Not so cheap.

 

For me, beyond visa rules, and of course ambiance (i love latino athmosphere, and as a French especially, although not speaking spanish, i fell very welcome in LA), well i must admit i do not care as some here about the price of the beer ????Guys seriously...

But i do really care about those basics : rental without hassle of condo and scooter, and noise. Countries where taxis klaxon like 10 time a minute ! it's a big issue for me ! Like Philippine too. 

 

For the girls, well different style huh... Colombians are the best. Elsewhere in LA well how to say ?... I like thin, not big. But there are feelings in LA. Definitely not in SEA.

 

I am still searching. But obviously it become more difficult in SEA. Thailand make a clear message, farangs not welcome to stay "any-more" ????. Cambodia well... hmm... I will check Vietnam again.

Colombia, i don't know why, as something special. I may return. With a lot of courage to find a good condo/rental... Real issue there imo, like in France, compare to Asia. And the noise.

No perfect world i should settle someday ????

[balo]

One day I will visit Colombia , one day.......
 

[sunnyboy2018]

I would prefer to return to the UK than emigrate to Latin America. Spend short winter in Europe or The Caribbean or West Africa. Im too settled in Thailand and too old to change. I've been to over 60 countries and lived and worked in many ..

just glad i knew Thailand in the glory days before the current regime and cant face swopping it for a latin American despot for ever under the heel of America.

[JaiLai]

4 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

I would prefer to return to the UK than emigrate to Latin America. Spend short winter in Europe or The Caribbean or West Africa. Im too settled in Thailand and too old to change. I've been to over 60 countries and lived and worked in many ..

just glad i knew Thailand in the glory days before the current regime and cant face swopping it for a latin American despot for ever under the heel of America.

just out of interest where in west africa would you consider?

[Mike Teavee]

4 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

I would prefer to return to the UK than emigrate to Latin America. Spend short winter in Europe or The Caribbean or West Africa. Im too settled in Thailand and too old to change. I've been to over 60 countries and lived and worked in many ..

just glad i knew Thailand in the glory days before the current regime and cant face swopping it for a latin American despot for ever under the heel of America.

Not sure about the returning to the UK part (I love the UK, will not stand for anybody speaking bad about it) but awesome to hear you've found your happy place

 

I've never really visited LATAM (done Mexico twice on 1 day trips) but have done most of the Caribbean Islands on holiday over the years so want to try the real LATAM... I'll be maintaining my BKK Condo / Thai Non-O visa during the "Trial" ????  

 

Wish I'd have found Thailand in the Glory Days (Unfortunately work took me the other way & only got to visit Asia in 2008, have lived here ever since :))

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

4 minutes ago, JaiLai said:

just out of interest where in west africa would you consider?

Cape Town.... 

 

[JaiLai]

1 minute ago, Mike Teavee said:

Cape Town.... 

 

not west africa

 

beatiful place tho and very cheap with Ex rate. ive got a lot of south african friends (white) and they all agree SA is gonna end up like Zimbabwe - shame!

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, JaiLai said:

not west africa

 

beatiful place tho and very cheap with Ex rate. ive got a lot of south african friends (white) and they all agree SA is gonna end up like Zimbabwe - shame!

It's more West than East ???? 

 

Beautiful place.... 

[seasia]

On 11/16/2019 at 1:58 AM, Bournville said:

The Thai Baht has gotten stronger since my arrival in Thailand 4 years ago. In addition, prices have gone up.

 

In México, where I lived prior to 2014 for 3 years, the Peso has gotten weaker. Just this week the peso adjusted due to interest rate changes in Mexico. 

 

I can understand Mexican economics.. Just a bit. Thailands cause and affect in their economics make zero sense to me. 

 

Retirees and indeed younger entrepreneurs are looking for an economically sensible place to live. Thailand is a very poor in this regard. Real estate here in Thailand.. Land especially is about DOUBLE the cost of similar land in Mexico! Even the price of rice is more expensive in Thailand! 5555. When you think about rice... Thailand and China come to mind right? So why is rice cheaper in México? 

 

One if my favourite comparisons is clothes and shoes that are "Made in Thailand" and sold for less in Mexico than at Platinum market in BKK! Huh? This is a big mystery to me. 555

 

I'm not poor. But I'm not stupid with my money either. 

 

Interesting post, thanks.  Yes the baht is strong and prices have been going up. I have been  living here 10 years, in the early years did not notice prices going up. Within the last 3 to 4 years they certainly have. Some currencies have been knocked hard, GBP, Euro AUS dollar.  GBP/Baht rate is painful. Pre the idea of Brexit  1 GBP was around 55 baht.Now currently around 38 baht.

 

Although I know very little about the Mexican economy I do have a fairly decent knowledge of economics generally.

Some thoughts

 

The supply chain in Thailand seems ineffeient compared to various other countries.

e.g. Deliveries being made to some stores with 3 or 4 delivery staff where only 2 would be OK.

Some shops overstaffed.

 

Wealth inequality in Thailand very high. The rich elite control most businesses ( the large ones anyway )

It suits them to have high prices ( except perhaps for a few Thai staples )

Massive profits, much of which is siphoned off to other countries. A strong baht suits those in power.

 

Competition, probably more competitive in Mexico.

 

"The largest retail chains in Mexico are also some of the largest retailers in the world, according to the Global Powers of Retailing, an international revenue ranking list compiled by Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu each year. It's not surprising considering the Mexican economy is the 15th largest in the world as of January 2017 and will be poised to jump to 12th place, according to the CIA Factbook's 2017 estimates.....

 

Mexican retailers get plenty of direct competition in their own country from U.S. retail chains. Costco, Victoria’s Secret, Starbucks, Burger King, McDonald’s, Tasti Dlite, Cold Stone Creamery, Wendy’s, YUM Brands and Baskin-Robbins are some other U.S. retail chains doing business in Mexico."

 

Source and more at   https://www.thebalancesmb.com/largest-mexico-retailers-2892267

 

 

Population.  Mexico nearly double that of Thailand. So economies of scale come in to play.

 

I suppose might also include greed ( In the case of Thailand ) 

[JaiLai]

3 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

It's more West than East ???? 

 

Beautiful place.... 

The clue is in the country name.....

[Jingthing]

I found out something interesting about the Colombia visa situation. As mentioned before there MAY be a major change coming that would include a major rise in financial requirements including retirement. Well, even if that happened it might not be so bad for people already in the system IF they grandfather the old levels. So I was curious about RESIDENCY TIME REQUIREMENTS for those on Colombian long term visas. Now in Thailand for one year retirement extensions, you aren't required to live in Thailand at all to keep that valid. I found out that in Colombia you don't need to live there much either BUT if you leave and don't return for over six months, the visa status becomes invalid. So that might a useful thing especially for people now in the USA and Canada in that you can pop into Colombia and get a THREE YEAR retirement visa and all you need to do to keep it valid is to show up in Colombia before every six month period ends. So that could be a foot in the door on the current levels and then see if they're grandfathered. Or other personally tailored tactics as needed. Rather more difficult and expensive for those now living in Thailand though. I guess one way to use that rule from Thailand would be to pop in, get the visa, then go back to Thailand and try to end all your business in Thailand within six months (easy for some, hard for others). But then there is the risk that you would need to move again within three years if no grandfathering.

[moe666]

On 3/4/2019 at 5:20 PM, Jingthing said:

Getting an O-A visa means traveling back to your home country. Please this isn't about Thai visa mechanics per se.

 

Also it sounds like you're falsely conflating visa acquisition fees with FINANCIAL REQUIREEMENTS!

Thailand's financial requirements for retirement visas for example are much much higher than most nations in Latin America that have formal programs, and many of them do. 

 

Believe it or not, many long term expats are feeling like it's time to seriously look for alternative options and some of the best alternative options in the world are in Latin America. Thus this topic. 

The expats I know made adjustments to their status and put money in the bank to obtain their extension of stay, they did not consider latin america at all.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, moe666 said:

The expats I know made adjustments to their status and put money in the bank to obtain their extension of stay, they did not consider latin america at all.

Then this topic is not for them or anyone else that isn't interested in consideration of Latin America, is it? 

[Jingthing]

National Geographic for 2020 suggests visiting Puebla as opposed to Mexico City for a taste of big city Mexico. Well, I've been to Mexico City but wouldn't consider living there. Posting this because Puebla is high on my list of possibly good and reasonably safe expat destinations in Mexico.

 

Quote

Best trips for 2020, according to National Geographic

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/national-geographic-best-trips-2020/index.html

 

[seasia]

Hi

 

Costa Rica.

 

I have never been, it cropped up in conversation with a friend who has been a few times.

 

It got my interest, so started looking on line.

 

Came across this blog post which gives thoughts on cost of living.

Not all that keen on the blogger but some interesting info.

 

https://www.costaricatravel.tips/what-is-the-cost-of-living-in-costa-rica/

 

Then came across this video on Jaco Costa Rica.

 

Very well made.

 

I was almost drooling at the sight of the pizzas ( just over 1 minute in )

 

Jaco looks lovely.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X5H1YG5exw

 

 

[Jingthing]

Yeah but Jaco has a very small population and I don't think it's near any kind of big city. Sounds like a good place for a holiday but not so practical for long term expats. 

[Bournville]

On 11/19/2019 at 11:57 AM, Jingthing said:

I found out something interesting about the Colombia visa situation. As mentioned before there MAY be a major change coming that would include a major rise in financial requirements including retirement. Well, even if that happened it might not be so bad for people already in the system IF they grandfather the old levels. So I was curious about RESIDENCY TIME REQUIREMENTS for those on Colombian long term visas. Now in Thailand for one year retirement extensions, you aren't required to live in Thailand at all to keep that valid. I found out that in Colombia you don't need to live there much either BUT if you leave and don't return for over six months, the visa status becomes invalid. So that might a useful thing especially for people now in the USA and Canada in that you can pop into Colombia and get a THREE YEAR retirement visa and all you need to do to keep it valid is to show up in Colombia before every six month period ends. So that could be a foot in the door on the current levels and then see if they're grandfathered. Or other personally tailored tactics as needed. Rather more difficult and expensive for those now living in Thailand though. I guess one way to use that rule from Thailand would be to pop in, get the visa, then go back to Thailand and try to end all your business in Thailand within six months (easy for some, hard for others). But then there is the risk that you would need to move again within three years if no grandfathering.

My Mexican Residency visa will never expire and I have actually spent more time here in Thailand than in México. 

 

I'll be returning to México in a few more weeks.. Immigration allows me to enter Mexico, with my Residente Permanente Card, via the "Mexicans Only" line at the airport. Once, immigration told me "that I am nearly Mexican".. Because I had that card. I always feel welcome there. 

 

Regarding Colombia.. I read a few years ago that all money going into that country was taxable. Never did understand rule fully. 

[seasia]

21 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah but Jaco has a very small population and I don't think it's near any kind of big city. Sounds like a good place for a holiday but not so practical for long term expats. 

Good point. Confess I never realised just how small.

100kms from the capital. You are right, better for a holiday than long stay.

 

According to this article it is a 24 hr. town

 

 

"Jacó needs a moniker. I propose “The Biggest Little City in Costa Rica.”

Really. Jacó’s population is only around 12,000, but the nonstop activity that radiates from this town belies it’s modest population. Due to its proximity to San José – just over an hour drive on Ruta 27 – city dwellers flood this once-sleepy beach town on weekends and holidays. This ease of access also makes Jacó an easy stop for travelers exploring Costa Rica. The result is a 24/7 city that, with the exception of the capital, doesn’t exist anywhere else in Costa Rica........"

 

From  https://ticotimes.net/travel/the-biggest-little-city-in-costa-rica

[Jingthing]

Thanks for that. I hadn't realized it was only an hours drive to San Jose which is a city I like but in my experience badly polluted. I wonder if the bus is that quick. That's a similar travel time between expat haven Boquette and David in Panama. 

[Jingthing]

Mexican cartels expanded to the green gold avocado trade and other segments. This is pretty grim stuff. From an expat POV the increase in cartel violence in Guanajuato is particularly of interest. Guanajuato itself is somewhat of an expat draw but also its not very far from both San Miguel de Allende and Queretaro. 

 

 

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-11-20/mexico-cartel-violence-avocados

 

 

Inside the bloody cartel war for Mexico’s multibillion-dollar avocado industry

 

[sunnyboy2018]

On 11/17/2019 at 1:43 AM, JaiLai said:

just out of interest where in west africa would you consider?

Gambia/Senegal/ Guinea Bissau.