Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes

[garyk]

Talking about Colombia, I was fixing to buy a ticket when the government closed the borders. The dollar to COP is running about 3.8-4K / dollar. Extremely good rate and I am ready to take advantage of that if it holds. So right after the ban is lifted I will be on a plane out. Was going to head to the Philippines, but I am tired of the long flights. Although I like Asian women much better then Mexican or Colombian woman by a long shot. When Colombia lifts its ban I will post some pics and the process of getting a retirement visa there. I was going to get a retirement visa in Mexico but being from the US it is too easy for me to live long term in Mexico with just a tourist visa.

 

[Banana7]

Argentina's currency is going in the tank. US $ are needed. 1 USD = 68.2569 ARS (argentine pesos). Argentina is defaulting on their debt. This may the best time in a decade to take a look at Argentina, especially if you like beef and wine!

 

 

[Jingthing]

Let's face it. 

 

For now and into the future for nobody knows how long, Covid 19 is the dominant issue in the world and Latin America is a major center of that. 

 

Brazil is challenging the USA to be number one in Covid. 

 

But I found this story about American citizens and residents in Mexico rather surprising.

 

Borders open or closed - - to viruses it doesn't matter. 

 

Almost darkly amusing to hear about some calling to send the sick back to Mexico when they're talking about US citizens and residents. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/05/27/coronavirus-mexico-border/

 

 

Coronavirus on the border

Edited May 27, 2020 by Jingthing

[torturedsole]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

For now and into the future for nobody knows how long, Covid 19 is the dominant issue in the world ...

A shame really, as there's far more pressing matters.

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

A shame really, as there's far more pressing matters.

Well be that as it may the bigger point is that this is not the time to expatriate to Latin America or most anywhere else. 

 

If you're there already that's another matter. 

 

Countries have bans in place and international commercial aviation is very limited. 

 

As travel opens up USA nationals in particular are not going to be high on the list of welcome nationalities. 

 

[torturedsole]

30 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well be that as it may the bigger point is that this is not the time to expatriate to Latin America or most anywhere else.

Rendition flights are excluded, of course.  

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

Rendition flights are excluded, of course.  

I assume you mean repatriatlon flights.

 

In any case difficult times. 

 

Of course when things eventually do open up things will likely be different in both good and bad ways. So some opportunities for some that are not risk averse. 

 

 

 

[torturedsole]

Just now, Jingthing said:

I assume you mean repatriatlon flights.

No, I mean rendition flights.  Hopefully going to see some action soon when the biggest terrorists known to man are tried in the US. 

 

The only way to get them there is on rendition flights.  Avoids all the bureaucracy of form filling and human rights garbage.  

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

No, I mean rendition flights.  Hopefully going to see some action soon when the biggest terrorists known to man are tried in the US. 

 

The only way to get them there is on rendition flights.  Avoids all the bureaucracy of form filling and human rights garbage.  

Wrong thread. 

This is about expatriation to Latin America. 

Cheers. 

[torturedsole]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Wrong thread. 

This is about expatriation to Latin America. 

Cheers. 

Thank you, your highness.  

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

Thank you, your highness.  

You're welcome to the last word on this. 

[torturedsole]

Just now, Jingthing said:

You're welcome to the last word on this. 

You just had the last unsolicited word if I'm not mistaken.  

[Jingthing]

As said as is the case globally and particularly now in Latin America, the Covid-19 situation is going to be a dominant concern for expats and potential expats going forward for months or years depending on your own predictions.

 

So what are travel vloggers and expatriation vloggers supposed to talk about now? Well, you guessed.

 

This video is mostly specific to a very unusual area of Mexico, famous as a gringo retired expat center. But it's in the context of Mexico now, a country with a populist leader that has been in denial about the virus, opening up somewhat now in the context of rapidly rising cases.

 

Yes, Thailand is definitely better off than that now as far as the virus anyway.

 

For those looking forward to when things get back to some kind of new normal, a subtext of this video is that real estate deals are probably going to be available. You know, desperate sellers, weak currencies, etc. More of interest to buyers than renters.

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

Uruguay... 

 

This video popped into my YT feed & remembered this thread which has been very quiet over the past 6 months or so.. 

 

 

Seems to tick a lot of the boxes especially around getting residency

 

 

[Banana7]

14 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Uruguay... 

 

This video popped into my YT feed & remembered this thread which has been very quiet over the past 6 months or so.. 

 

 

Seems to tick a lot of the boxes especially around getting residency

 

 

One issue with Uruguay is the weather especially July and August, it can get down to 0c.

[Destiny1990]

Yeah Montevideo does  look tempting also Colombia Medellin ticks lots of boxes for me.

[PoeDogg]

I've been watching this Youtube channel for a couple of months about Ecuador; plan on checking it out this year, hopefully soon.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG0F-g9cDLMcP6bd3eVowNQ

[Patong2021]

Pie in the sky fantasy. Now that Covid19 runs wild, Latin America does not look like such a paradise. 

[Jingthing]

33 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

Pie in the sky fantasy. Now that Covid19 runs wild, Latin America does not look like such a paradise. 

Yeah but you could say that about the entire world now. I never thought this pandemic would be quickly resolved. More like a three year thing causing very long term significant societal changes.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, andy said:

Pretty interesting video here about Mexico.  Nice to see a video of this type that pays little mention to the usual gringo retire ghettos.  Number 1 will definitely not be everyone's cup of tea, but her description of it is bang on IMO - a special place.  Warning there is some serious food porn in the video and you may want to bring a towel to wipe up the drool if you haven't been in Mexico for awhile ????

https://youtu.be/l4mbjX660V4

Yeah I follow and like her. But she's recently changed her tune about cities and now is focused on smaller town beach areas because she wants more outdoor living because of the pandemic. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I'm going to get this topic going again.

 

On other threads, people have asked about the temporary and permanent residency processes in Mexico.

 

Of course there's scads of information out there, but I found this video particularly excellent:

 

 

 

This video answered a question that I've had for a long time. Can you use retirement accounts such as IRAs to prove economic solvency? The answer is definitely yes, but there's a big caveat. You need to show MONTHLY statements going back for twelve months. I don't think my particular IRA account generates monthly statements. Only quarterly. Maybe there's a workaround for that, and maybe there's not. 

 

Another big question this video answered was whether you need to prove your finances multiple times or only the one time for the initial consulate (or embassy) application for temporary or permanent residence based on income or balances. The answer, somewhat shockingly, was no. In other words supposing you showed approximately 35K USD for your initial temporary residence (good for one year). This means that you would never need to prove that money again, even as you transitioned to permanent residence in your fifth year living in Mexico. Almost too good to be true, but that's what I heard in the video pretty clearly. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

The subject of Colombian taxation of expats has come up before. It turns out that is a problem. Colombia does tax based on income AND assets globally. If you're just living on a small social security check and have very minimal global assets, then you would be under the filing requirement there. But if you have significant global assets, want to buy housing in Colombia, open a bank account there and import more than your stated low income, then there could be problems. Very large fines if caught and they go back into history. There is sharing between the Colombian and U.S. tax systems, so maybe this would be less scary for non-Americans. Some expats with low pension checks but significant other global income and/or assets (you can visa qualify on a low income) do play a certain game. Don't open a local bank account. Get all their money in with a home country ATM. Use a non-Colombian credit card (yes they even look at credit card flows). Always rent housing. Etc. You get the picture. Would you be comfortable with that? I have even read that if you get to five years and you apply for citizenship, showing tax returns is helpful, and I would imagine suspicion that you've been playing games would be the opposite.  In any case, there is a reason that Colombia is considered a tax unfriendly country for expats. Nearby Ecuador is much easier. 

 

Somewhat tellingly, the famous Nomad Capitalist youtuber loves Colombia and has invested in an apartment in a top neighborhood in Bogota but he's very careful to never stay there long enough to be considered a Colombian tax resident.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

This one is kind of funny and also kind of sad. If anyone bothers to read back into this thread, you will see that I have mentioned Queretaro Mexico multiple times. Quere-what? The point is that before I learned about it online I had never even heard of it even after several trips to Mexico. Well, time passes. Now it turns out that Queretaro is the hot ticket in what some call the RAM (Retire Abroad Media) machine. Now you hear about it a lot. Some of the most famous Mexico youtubers have now actually moved there (and most of the major youtubers have covered it)! Prices are going up in what was already considered one of the most expensive destinations in Mexico. There is the corrupting gringo effect as has happened in so many places such as Medellin Colombia. Even though you still need some Spanish for Queretaro, you will no longer be any kind of expat pioneer. You're an industry. 

 

So what's the next Queretaro in Mexico that hopefully will never be discovered and corrupted? I have no idea. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

News flash -- I'm trying to arrange a consultation with a Colombian tax expert who specializes in expats. I'm preparing a list of questions for her, mostly related to my personal financial situation, and some more general. If anyone has any non obvious questions related to that, please PM me. I think I probably will already cover the totally obvious ones such as what does taxation of global assets actually specifically mean? I hope to get a sample tax return based on hypothetical numbers reflecting guesstimates of my financial details. I can't promise I'll get to your question especially if your question has nothing to do with my situation though. 

 

I will repeat here again something that I'm convinced is true. Anybody considering expatriation to Colombia NEEDS to get expert advice on how this would work for their specific financial situation. An exception is if your only income is a low level pension check and you have very little global assets. Many expats live there without even being required to file, some play possibly risky games to stay off the radar, some are subject to some tax but it's worth it for the quality of life value that Colombia offers, and some are being soaked. Why would we move there if we're in the getting soaked category? So you need to find out. 

 

I will post the contact information for the expert I hopefully will be meeting with (online) if I find her help recommendable. 

 

If it turns out my tax situation would be brutal there, then I'll just remove Colombia from the small list of countries that I'm considering as realistic backups to Thailand. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

One of the "fun" things about considering new expatriation destinations is making decisions about places that you have definitely eliminated. 

 

While Mexico is still very high on my list of possible backups to Thailand, I have crossed the bridge to total rejection of Merida, Mexico as a place that I would ever consider. It's just too damn hot. It's just too damn humid. What put me over the top was a youtube video of people saying it's even significantly worse than Atlanta summers, it's like "living on the sun," and the desire for an Uber for a one block walk in the hotter seasons. No thank you!

Edited June 16, 2021 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Personally, I'm not really interested in Costa Rica (even less so than Panama) but there may be a development there that is historically interesting. Costa Rica was one of the earlier adopters of warmly welcoming retired expats to Latin America, then they decided it was too much and reduced their inducements. Well, now it looks like they might be swinging back to offering more inducements.

 

 

 

 

Why I don't like Costa Rica:

The food

Too small

Too expensive

Capital city San Jose not desirable (but fun for a visit)

Tend to need a car

[Jingthing]

Viva Mexico!

 

The Mexican "high" court has spoken.

 

Mexico high court mandates permits for personal pot use - ABC News (go.com)

 

Quote

 

Mexico high court mandates permits for personal pot use

Mexico's Supreme Court has ordered the government to issue permits for the personal use of marijuana and for the growing of limited amounts of pot plants, after the country's Congress took too long to approve a limited legalization la

 

w

[Jingthing]

San Luis Potosi MX has come onto my radar.

The reason is that I think very good central located AFFORDABLE housing would be easier to secure there than Queretaro and Guadalajara.

Not living in an out of the way dump is a priority.

Of course there are pros and cons for SLP just like any other place.

Has anyone here been there?

 

 

 

Rough Pros and Cons

 

Pros

 

Decent sized city so has all the modern infrastructure (good internet, Costco, Walmart, public transportation, Uber, etc.)

Beautiful colonial architecture

Year round mild weather (mostly)

Off the gringo trail so hasn't been corrupted by that

Large parks

Numerous cultural events

People are reputed to be very friendly, curious about foreigners as more rare

In a conservative region but well balanced by lots of university students

Wonderful day trips, nearby natural attractions

Some airport connections to U.S. 

Not associated with cartel violence

The real Mexico

 

 

Cons

 

Under par for international food offerings

Spanish is an absolute must

Crime such as muggings is a risk (best to avoid being out especially alone later at night)

A few months of cooler weather and apartments don't have central heating

Not a particularly great food scene, even for Mexican

Has shopping malls but nothing super fabulous like Queretaro

Poor expat support system (pioneer types)

The real Mexico

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Jingthing

[MayBeNow]

Dont go jingjing, stay with us, it will be so quiet without you matey. Atleast try and reach 250000 posts!!! Thats not more then another year of posting for you.

Edited July 12, 2021 by MayBeNow

[Sambotte]

I have been there. I mean moving from Thailand to Latin America (and back), many times before, and have been travelling all my life. Been years total in Thailand, have had retirement visa and dropped it with the annual more complicated thing, the more money in bank, and mostly the more potential problem for no reason with immigration...

Recently went from Thailand to Mexico.

 

I agree Thai immigration policy has made a 180 turn those 5-7 last years or so, was one of the best, has become a big worry.  

Mexico : 6 months on arrival, renewable at will. Panama same. Colombia : 3 months + extension 3 month, but limited to 6 month total in calendar year. Etc. Day and night compared to Thai immigration now, not to mention the nice welcome (like Thailand before), and not to mention the "no crazy requirement relative to covid", especially Mexico, but now Colombia too.

This is a starter, for a traveller especially. But for a expat too, or even a tourist.

 

Other big issues in Thailand : the amazing... POLLUTION ! Count 6 months a year (all the dry season) over polluted everywhere ! That's a cooler if you care about your air.

The driving.

Music is painful. No dance. No littérature.

The awfully bad management of covid related visa issues during the first 6 months at least of the covid crisis (and Thailand was safe, but making problem to the "dirty-farangs" to stay although they presented no risk but on contrary easy money income - i mean normal, not via immigration extorsion like i have seen -)

 

BUT ! Thailand is still a Number ONE for security (i do not care too much but it affect for example your will to rent a motorcycle, way less easy in Mexico and you just may not want to get your rental stolen !).

Number ONE for "everything basic works", like airports, airplane company, train, hotels, internet, hot water (not kidding in Latin America it's not a sure thing lol...), banks (excellents) ! Rental soooo easy. Etc. !!!

BUSINESS IS GOOD in Thailand. Number one i would say, always polite, never arguing, excellent services, quality, prices. And no cheating. I mean with exception but very rare.

And for those on budget or just liking good service/price, compared to Latin America, Thailand is easily half expensive and twice quality, total x4 difference !

And well, Girls... Are much nicer in Thailand, at least in the beginning ????

And, people are not noisy ! 

 

Mexico... 3 months and half now for me, wow ! Is this Africa ? India ? A small country far from civilisation ??? No ? Why is nothing working (and crazy like airport, food, taxi, internet, etc.) so many f. times here ???

Instead of fixing their mess most here will explain some excuses, and argue, talking and talking.

Food is just bad in so many places.

Full of American and Canadian (nothing against but you feel you are in a mass-north american tourist place, like Costa Rica i think. Like Vietnam was full of Chineese. I mean way too many tourists, it's not about their origin). Big difference is you don't want to go in small areas in Mexico, à contrario it's not a problem at all in Asia.

Girls well... i have met a few bad bit... here. Not the same "shape" either i would say...

VERY noisy. Hard to find a place isolated from the multi-massive-permanent noise.

Etc. 

Air is good. Music they know.

 

My travel in Mexico started, after a perfect flight with ANA (Japan quality, top), with a TOTAL MESS at Mexico airport (as very usual i have been in transit here a few times, always messy, fully desorganized), Viva air canceling my connecting domestic ticket for no reason (was paid and checked-in online). Next day i can move (with Aeromexico no complain with them), but the booked hotel refused any change, lied to me, was not nice.

Oaxaca province, have issue with internet, since years and for years they say. Internet not working well is that on Earth <deleted> ?! Etc.

 

Another province (Jalisco), after of course another big issue at airport (info panel not updated, people stuck before the gates for no reason, no annoucement... never saw such a mess !)... i rented a condo, only one lift, became out of order for 7 days !!! (i forget but it was a well-known lift brand so no excuse for that). 8 floor nice ! Taxi i would say 1 in 5 know how to drive. Wait... of course they don't put aircon, can not figure out why... ATM are quite random for what you can withdraw, always a mess until you catch the good banks-brands. Etc. Etc.

Everyday i expect something NOT WORKING ! I have past the age and the envy to be in such an under-developed country seriously.

And business is so bad in general. Always trying to ask more money for less service or quality. Irritating.

 

Today i ordered a chicken steak, i got beef <deleted> ! And they explained it's normal it's an American thing ?.. (never saw that in USA). Not surprised. Annoyed. Another bad business losing mine.

 

I am generalizing of course, some things are pretty cool, some Mexican are really good friends.

But :

I always went back in Thailand before and hope i will again.

First time more than 3 weeks (one time) in Mexico (now 3 months 1/2), i just plan to leave soon, and i will not come back. Like... Gabon in Africa, some countries are just not basically working enough for me now.

Will try again Colombia, i kind of liked this country. Some big political problem there but not affecting foreigners i think, and it's a rare open-country relative to covid.