Trump vetoes measure to end his emergency declaration on border wall

[Damrongsak]

Forms of government ... a Republic, not a Democracy.

 

 

[smotherb]

20 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

No kidding, Mr. Barr!  The veto is clearly constitutional, as any American schoolchild should know.  But, as the chief law enforcement officer, do you think it is truly such a national emergency.

 

So you are saying you approve of the illegal entry of thousands of immigrants above the President's responsibility to secure the borders?  

I think you, like most Trumpeters, miss the point. This is about declaring a national emergency to help fulfill Trump's signature campaign pledge, to build a wall.

 

Most Americans--including enough Republicans in Congress to stifle Trump's efforts to build the wall, even when Republicans enjoyed the majority in both houses--do not believe the wall is the answer to illegal immigration. Walls simply do not work--Hadrian's, Berlin's, China's ad infinitum--walls can be circumvented (over, under, around and through).

 

Any number of legitimate sources will tell you the brunt of illegal aliens, drugs, terrorists come into the US through legal points of entry. Most of the 750 miles +/- of the land border--GT 650 miles--is already blocked by physical obstruction; yet illegal immigration persists in those areas.  The other 1250 miles +/- is already obstructed by the Rio Grande river--I can imagine all those Texas riverfront land owners wanting a wall, can't you?

 

We have poor border security because it has been poorly managed; like so many other government managed fiascoes.  We have the technology to know when anyone approaches any part of our border. However, like so many other issues which should be logically and methodically achieved, like healthcare and education; we fail to do so. So, our primal instincts take over, and we hit it with a hammer.  We haven't come far from the cave, have we?   

[smotherb]

40 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Agree.

Seems there are a lot of people out there that think "democracy" applies only when they agree with the action, and that people that don't agree with them are <deleted> or <deleted>.

Oh for sure; most people see only what they want to see and cannot or do not view the situation with an open mind. Fear and ignorance runs rampant. Politicians, and Trump is a politician, play that card on the unknowing masses; so they will follow like good little sheep. 

[thaibeachlovers]

28 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Walls simply do not work--Hadrian's, Berlin's, China's ad infinitum--walls can be circumvented (over, under, around and through).

 

The Israelis would disagree.

Far as I know Hadrian's wall and the great wall of China worked as intended. Wikipedia does not support the theory that they did not work. 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

30 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Oh for sure; most people see only what they want to see and cannot or do not view the situation with an open mind. Fear and ignorance runs rampant. Politicians, and Trump is a politician, play that card on the unknowing masses; so they will follow like good little sheep. 

Yes, Trump seems to have learned how to be a politician since taking office. Certainly acts like one.

[Puchaiyank]

 I think you, like most Trumpeters, miss the point. This is about declaring a national emergency to help fulfill Trump's signature campaign pledge, to build a wall.

 

Dems are dug-in on this issue...you and they refuse to listen to the people who maintain security at the border...

 

This is a March 6, 2019 press release from DHS.

 

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2019/03/06/humanitarian-and-security-crisis-southern-border-reaches-breaking-point

 

Of course, it is to be dissed as not having any merit as this information was not covered by liberal media...one might say by ignoring the facts...this info is being covered-up...

 

[thaibeachlovers]

40 minutes ago, smotherb said:

So, our primal instincts take over, and we hit it with a hammer.  We haven't come far from the cave, have we?   

True. We may live in houses, but our genes were imprinted in the caves. We haven't come far by any reckoning.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, smotherb said:

You apparently are not aware of the President's Constitutional Right to veto a Congressional act. However, Congress can reject the President's veto with a 2/3 majority of both houses. That process is part of the US system of checks and balances. So, you can make up your mind what you think constitutes democracy, but  . . . .

You apparently are not aware that the US Constitution gives the power of the purse to Congress.  This emergency decree will undoubtedly be challenged in court and wind its way up to the Supreme Court.  Hopefully even a Republican packed court will decide that Trump can't take away Congress's power of the purse by issuing emergency decrees.

[SpokaneAl]

The majority of the illegal immigrants are entering the US through legal points of entry, as are the majority of the drugs.  Few if any terrorists have been shown to enter the US through the southern border.  Congress is willing to improve border security where the money will do the most good, but not waste billions of dollars on an ineffective wall.
 
More important, this is a veto against the US Constitution which mandates that Congress controls government funding.  Trump wants to take money approved by Congress for specific purposes and use the money for a totally different purpose. 
 
Trump tears up the Constitution and his base cheers.  The Trumpies really do want a dictatorship.

That is the majority of drugs that have been actually found and captured. To speculate from that against the unknown of unfound drugs coming through elsewhere is merely baseless extrapolation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[heybruce]

7 minutes ago, SpokaneAl said:

 

That is the majority of drugs that have been actually found and captured. To speculate from that against the unknown of unfound drugs coming through elsewhere is merely baseless extrapolation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I see, since drugs might be coming in through remote, desolate parts of the border that are not guarded 24/7, we should spend billions building a wall.  After all, people who have crossed thousands of miles through jungles, rivers, mountains and deserts can't possibly get through a wall.

 

In order to stop "maybe" entering risks, shouldn't we build a wall around the entire country?  Perhaps we can get Canada to pay for the northern wall.

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I see, since drugs might be coming in through remote, desolate parts of the border that are not guarded 24/7, we should spend billions building a wall.  After all, people who have crossed thousands of miles through jungles, rivers, mountains and deserts can't possibly get through a wall.

 

 

So, do you think that Trump should build a better wall to stop them ?

Bigger, higher and longer ?

[SpokaneAl]

I see, since drugs might be coming in through remote, desolate parts of the border that are not guarded 24/7, we should spend billions building a wall.  After all, people who have crossed thousands of miles through jungles, rivers, mountains and deserts can't possibly get through a wall.
 
In order to stop "maybe" entering risks, shouldn't we build a wall around the entire country?  Perhaps we can get Canada to pay for the northern wall.

My point is that, your deflection via your argument not withstanding, your analysis and conclusions are wrong.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[heybruce]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

So, do you think that Trump should build a better wall to stop them ?

Bigger, higher and longer ?

No, I think security at legal ports of entry, which is where the vast majority of people and contraband enter the country, needs to be improved.  The wall is a simple, but ineffective, solution that appeals to simple minds.

[EVENKEEL]

12 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I see, since drugs might be coming in through remote, desolate parts of the border that are not guarded 24/7, we should spend billions building a wall.  After all, people who have crossed thousands of miles through jungles, rivers, mountains and deserts can't possibly get through a wall.

 

In order to stop "maybe" entering risks, shouldn't we build a wall around the entire country?  Perhaps we can get Canada to pay for the northern wall.

Very dramatic, I'd say most rode buses and trucks, not wrestling crocodiles when crossing jungles.  

[sanemax]

What happened to all those caravans of south Americans that were heading to the border?

[heybruce]

9 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Very dramatic, I'd say most rode buses and trucks, not wrestling crocodiles when crossing jungles.  

Have you spent a lot of time on southern Mexico?  I've entered Mexico via a land border with Guatemala, it's dense, hot jungle.  No doubt people ride whenever they can, but they walk when that is the only option.

 

Of course to ride across the border, they would have to use roads at legal points of entry, or have access to a good, expensive, off-road vehicle.  Most of the people fleeing poverty and violence in Central America go to a legal point of entry, find someone in uniform, and ask for refugee status.

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Have you spent a lot of time on southern Mexico?  I've entered Mexico via a land border with Guatemala, it's dense, hot jungle.  No doubt people ride whenever they can, but they walk when that is the only option.

 

Of course to ride across the border, they would have to use roads at legal points of entry, or have access to a good, expensive, off-road vehicle.  Most of the people fleeing poverty and violence in Central America go to a legal point of entry, find someone in uniform, and ask for refugee status.

Although the border wall is going to be built along the USA/Mexican border , rather than the Mexico /Guatemalan border

[usviphotography]

22 minutes ago, sanemax said:

What happened to all those caravans of south Americans that were heading to the border?

Over illegal 70,000 crossings last month (that we know of). Most illegals actually entering the US in any single month in US history. Most apprehended in nearly a decade. 

[heybruce]

30 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Although the border wall is going to be built along the USA/Mexican border , rather than the Mexico /Guatemalan border

Although the majority of people entering the US illegally are coming from Central America and have endured thousands of miles of difficult, dangerous travel to get to the US border.  They won't let a wall stop them.

[PingRoundTheWorld]

22 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

In the meantime Trump just went full dictator.

Really funny, considering the current state of Thai politics. Trump is not even close to being a dictator. He is literally fulfilling his campaign promises (wow!). If you want to see real dictators, they're not far away....

[heybruce]

6 minutes ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Really funny, considering the current state of Thai politics. Trump is not even close to being a dictator. He is literally fulfilling his campaign promises (wow!). If you want to see real dictators, they're not far away....

Fulfilling his campaign promises?  Really?  I must have missed the news about Mexico paying for the wall.

[doggie1955]

On 3/16/2019 at 6:33 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

"...The veto, made necessary after a strong and unusual rebuke from members of Trump's Republican party, capped a week that left Trump politically wounded, at least temporarily, as immigration and his signature promise of a wall become a flashpoint again in the 2020 presidential campaign...."

 

First of all, the veto was not "made necessary", it is a choice made by Trump because the 'Deal-Maker' was unable to make a deal with Congress. Hmm... wasn't one of his campaign promises that he would 'make the best deals!'? What happened to that?

 

Secondly, the case for an 'Emergency' at the US southern border has not been made.

 

Third, while Trump did promise a wall in the 2016 campaign, there is no legitimacy to his argument that it is required because the campaign promise was that "Mexico would pay for it".

 

This usurping of power by Trump puts the US on a dangerous path. What will be the next "Emergency"? Take monies already allocated for other purposes and use them to fund 'militias'? Take monies already allocated for other purposes and use them to fund subsidies for 'hotel construction'? Take monies already allocated for other purposes and use them to fund 'Replacements' for 'costly and unnecessary elections'? Once you accept that a President can merely declare an "Emergency" and use monies allocated for other purposes, you negate the powers of Congress and disavow the concept of 'Separation of Powers'. It is a dark, murky, and dangerous path that Trump is leading Americans down. And, it is both gutless and shocking that the Republican party is allowing him to do it; what happened to all those comments of an "Imperial Presidency' when Obama was in office? The hypocrisy is breath-taking.

 

I have said it before and (sadly) need to say it again;

 

Donald Trump is an ever-expanding cloud of toxic waste that defiles everything it touches.

 

God help us all.

 

 

 

Spoken like a true liberal... 

[doggie1955]

23 hours ago, stevenl said:

Why don't you come with some facts in stead of emotional nonsense.

Well here is one liberal who does not know what he is talking about...

[lannarebirth]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

What happened to all those caravans of south Americans that were heading to the border?

The 2018 election happened and then it all magically disappeared.

[bristolboy]

On 3/16/2019 at 6:40 AM, Puchaiyank said:

So you are saying you approve of the illegal entry of thousands of immigrants above the President's responsibility to secure the borders?  

No, he's saying it's not an emergency. And you know who agrees with him? Donald Trump

"I could do the wall over a longer period of time. I didn't need to do this," Trump told reporters gathered in the White House Rose Garden on Friday, shortly before he signed a proclamation declaring the emergency. "But I'd rather do it much faster."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/02/16/border-emergency-donald-trump-quote-undercuts-move-critics-says/2881619002/

[smotherb]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The Israelis would disagree.

Far as I know Hadrian's wall and the great wall of China worked as intended. Wikipedia does not support the theory that they did not work. 

 

The Israelis shoot the trespassers--we could too, but then imagine the outcry

[smotherb]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

You apparently are not aware that the US Constitution gives the power of the purse to Congress.  This emergency decree will undoubtedly be challenged in court and wind its way up to the Supreme Court.  Hopefully even a Republican packed court will decide that Trump can't take away Congress's power of the purse by issuing emergency decrees.

How did you reach the conclusion that I was not aware Congress has financial authority?  It may go to the Supreme Court, if it cannot be stopped in the Senate,  However, with both being Republican dominated, I see little hope. Remember, the 2000 election when even Florida's Supreme Court ordered the recount--a recount of a State's rights issue--the Republican dominated Federal Supreme Court overruled it to put yet another Republican president in office who did not win the popular vote.  

[smotherb]

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So, Trump did what he said he would do and vetoed it. Unlikely to the max that the senate will over rule the veto, so looks like it will head to the SCOTUS and we'll have to wait and see what they say. I'm not sure how they will rule, so not guessing.

So far Trump is achieving at least some of his election promises, 2 conservatives on the SCOTUS, cancelled TPPT ( That made me happy ), and seen to be doing what he can to build the wall. His base should be happy, and it's looking good for 2020.

Conservatives putting conservatives on the court and liberal putting liberals on the court is more an ideological necessity.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

Although the majority of people entering the US illegally are coming from Central America and have endured thousands of miles of difficult, dangerous travel to get to the US border.  They won't let a wall stop them.

I've always wondered how poor people are able to endure thousands of miles of difficult, dangerous travel to get to the US border. How do they afford to pay all the bribes, the traffickers, food, places to stay on a journey of weeks?

How do they get through Mexico without applying for refugee status there, as they won't have a visa, and Mexico doesn't like illegals?

Who is paying?

[billd766]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The Israelis would disagree.

Far as I know Hadrian's wall and the great wall of China worked as intended. Wikipedia does not support the theory that they did not work. 

 

Hadrians wall didn't stop the Scots raiders from coming in.

The great wall of China didn't stop the Mongols under Genghis Khan

The Israelis keep finding tunnels under their wall.

Offa's Dyke didn't keep the Welsh out either.