Very bad case scenario -- what if you're blacklisted but still have assets in Thailand?

[overherebc]

The way I see it,

if you have say a condo and a car and get blacklisted you need to have a very good ex-pat friend that you can rely on to help you out.

Using the services of a lawyer to sell all and forward money to you has as much chance of flying up in the air as I have. I would imagine his costs would be 80% of cash realised from the sale.

Don't imagine you'll get any sympathy from any authority here.

No-one except a trusted ex-pat friend will give a BRA.

[findlay13]

3 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

and this is why we have rule number one for living in Thailand.

 

Never bring more into the country than you are willing to lose.

 

 

On my first visit to the PI, many ,many years ago.I was given the same advice and after watching  blokes over there and Thailand do their whole bank roll,I believe it was the best piece of advice I ever had.

[Jingthing]

28 minutes ago, dcnx said:

If you have rental properties get with an agent. They can handle your properties while you’re gone and wire payments to you elsewhere.

 

Thai bank.... I wouldn’t keep too much in there. Keep enough, but don’t screw yourself.

 

You can get removed from a blacklist for around 1 million baht. Check with lawyers in Bangkok should that happen.

 

If this concerns you, plan for the worst and hope for the best. 

I wonder if you could arrange a condo you lived in to be turned over to a real estate guy to handle everything for rentals, obviously for a bigger cut than you could usually negotiate, but possibly better than nothing. But it seems to me for that to be real, you would need to sign documents, the tenants would need an "owner" for immigration purposes, so I'm not clear if that could really work. 

 

Thai bank -- many of us have at least 800K baht in there for visa purposes. 

[rott]

56 minutes ago, JaiLai said:

How many people do you know personally that have been blacklisted.

And for a one day overstay.

[david555]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I'm not aware of any report of anyone successfully fighting a blacklisting. 

Sneaking in to sell something like a condo sounds like you'd be asking to be sent to prison. 

Give it to fill in the blank. OK. But I'm asking whether there is any way to actually recover assets for the owner, if blacklisted.

 

Also to add even a 5 year blacklist would have similar results. So you're going to leave a condo unclaimed for 5 years? Seems like it wouldn't be your condo anymore after 5 years, but that's another question. 

You can contact probably condo management for fill the needed in your absence by online banking or direct payments or any other problem ….. also you can give any one you know in Thailand or any other country ...including your home country permission to check/rent your condo and secure the missing things because sudden order to leave Thailand (just an idea …..like said before condo handling is the easiest part in your doomsday scenario ...as concrete almost unmovable  )

Edited March 17, 2019 by david555

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

It's not a matter of deserves or not. Again, people are deported and blacklisted for various reasons. When it happens and they have assets left in Thailand, that is a problem. I started this thread to ask if there may be proactive things people can do to protect their assets if such a thing happens to them. 

I can't imagine a scenario where a farang would be blacklisted for a one day overstay. Not realistic.

 

If you do know of such an incident I think it would be of far more importance to let people know than exploring a highly unlikely hypothetical.

 

Do tell the story or do one.

[david555]

47 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I wonder if you could arrange a condo you lived in to be turned over to a real estate guy to handle everything for rentals, obviously for a bigger cut than you could usually negotiate, but possibly better than nothing. But it seems to me for that to be real, you would need to sign documents, the tenants would need an "owner" for immigration purposes, so I'm not clear if that could really work. 

 

Thai bank -- many of us have at least 800K baht in there for visa purposes. 

Could be done online between both party's , Staying in Cambodia (even temporary …). remember that you can in Thai baht notes only 50 000 baht  cash ..... but to Cambodia 350 000 , (before 500 K) and changing to a western currency in short notice could be a little problematic .Cambodia would be my first option if would happen to me , as cheap flights (paid by me of course ) for a helping hand to come over to arrange things .

Cash under control is the first emergency thing to secure 

[luckyluke]

In such a case there is, like always, the optimistic and pessimistic approach. 

 

Here in this particular case there is also the realistic approach. 

 

Optimists don't have to plan anything as nothing will happen to them. 

 

Pessimists should start to take actions now. 

 

Selling their Condo now and continue to 

live here in renting, sell the car/motorbike and use the Bath bus, eventually taxi and walk. 

The biggest possible amount of cash should always being immediately available. 

 

The realistic approach would being to take your chances, not ignoring that people are deported, but that there is a minimal possibility it may be yourself. 

 

 

And of course there is also :

Doing nothing that may give a possibility to Immigration to eventually deport you. 

 

Something the gross of us apply. 

 

But  this is not really relevant for this topic. 

[david555]

20 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

In such a case there is, like always, the optimistic and pessimistic approach. 

 

Here in this particular case there is also the realistic approach. 

 

Optimists don't have to plan anything as nothing will happen to them. 

 

Pessimists should start to take actions now. 

 

Selling their Condo now and continue to 

live here in renting, sell the car/motorbike and use the Bath bus, eventually taxi and walk. 

The biggest possible amount of cash should always being immediately available. 

 

The realistic approach would being to take your chances, not ignoring that people are deported, but that there is a minimal possibility it may be yourself. 

 

 

And of course there is also :

Doing nothing that may give a possibility to Immigration to eventually deport you. 

 

Something the gross of us apply. 

 

But  this is not really relevant for this topic. 

Makes me a balanced pessimist …. as I made my cash at most available on 1 card where that amount is not on …. but the other mother card allows internal immediate transfers ...to the daily in use card if needed urgent ..! besides enough foreign cash at hand 

 

BTW  @Jinthing a tip for next doomsday topic  could happen ….what if you sudden are victim of bank fraud internet way or other …..and your 800K is missing or under level ….. not your fault , but can happen and immigration shall not make exceptions …?

Enjoy JT.

Edited March 17, 2019 by david555

[Bang Bang]

I have decent cash assets here from working many years. For which reason I am setting up a DeeMoney ac. so that I can transfer moneys out of here. I have only just applied so my DM ac. isn't up and running yet. But I assume that when it is, and is linked to my Kasikorn bank ac., I will be able use DM remotely to get at my Thai stash (just like Transferwise works in the US). If this is true then it takes away the OP's headache re cash savings.

 

I am setting this up not because I expect to get blacklisted (well, who knows) but because I might be away to another country for an extended period.

 

I never bought a condo or a car. Love the country but never quite felt the confidence to own rather than rent.

 

My advice to the OP re his condo: Since you are worried about selling it in case you are stuck outside, I would settle the matter by selling it now, right away, like someone above suggests. My calculations (YMMV) show that the amount to buy a condo here, equivalent I guess to what you would gain selling, if invested even conservatively in the market, will bring in more than enough to rent an equal place. Renting is cheap in Thailand.

 

Plus your worries are over, which matters too. I like being in a configuration in which I can pick up stakes and be gone without a trace in 24hrs. I've been here now more than 10 years living light. It's alright.

[david555]

2 hours ago, Bang Bang said:

 I like being in a configuration in which I can pick up stakes and be gone without a trace in 24hrs. I've been here now more than 10 years living light. It's alright.

????????

[luckyluke]

12 minutes ago, JimmyTheMook said:

endless whining

 

I advise to see it this way :

 

Whining has never made a case worse. 

 

[lamyai3]

 

 

FWIW I think it's an interesting question. I could easily imagine people seriously affected by recent rule changes, who've invested their money in property, car and life here. They may have a pension from their home country that's more than sufficient to live on, but no longer qualifies to get them an extension under the new rules. If the stress of the whole thing put them into an overstay situation and they got caught, deported and blacklisted, what recourse might they then have to their assets?

 

I agree the comments earlier in the thread that the safest bet is probably a trusted friend to whom power of attorney could be given. If there's money in the bank, give the friend the ATM card to drain the account and get the money wired out via Deemoney or something similar. No idea regarding lawyers, but none of the hypothetical options look very pretty. 

[Sealbash]

Blacklisted for how long? One year? Go somewhere for a year, come back and pick up where you left off. No big deal. Blacklisted for 10 years? I think more than a one day overstay.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[lamyai3]

3 hours ago, findlay13 said:

On my first visit to the PI, many ,many years ago.I was given the same advice and after watching  blokes over there and Thailand do their whole bank roll,I believe it was the best piece of advice I ever had.

I was given this advice about 15 years ago regarding buying a condo, by a friend here who already owned a couple. She pointed out that the country is somewhat unstable, and that while you're welcome to buy here, there's no guarantee you'll always be able to live here. 

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Jingie, I think your concerns are genuine so not about to take the piss.

However you now have perhaps 3 threads running about worst case scenario. Why not just worry about yourself rather than others. Get you s### together and you can stay in los. Take a chill pill

Maybe he is worried about himself.

 

IMO, the person blacklisted is screwed if he has any of the things mentioned, unless can get a friend to come and get it for him.

[Leaver]

4 hours ago, JaiLai said:

How many people do you know personally that have been blacklisted?

 

Why even ask the question, do you plan to get blacklisted?

The thing is, it's a whole new game now.

 

There's not a great deal of difference between being blacklisted, and being denied a visa, or detained and exited.  Either way, you are getting thrown out of Thailand, or not allowed into Thailand.  Of course, the blacklisting does have specific time frame penalties stipulated, where as, for example, the amount of tourist entries does not. 

 

The new rules seem to judge an individual's ability to reside in Thailand, as a legal and functional member of society, and contributing to the economy, based on an ability to show their wealth in a certain way.  The certain way required now may not be a true indication of an individual's ability to be a law abiding and contributing member of society.

 

Many on this forum have a picture of a down and out foreigner, who has lost all his money to prostitutes, and is now an alcoholic and in poor health, as being someone who can not put 800k in a bank, and therefore should be expelled from Thailand.  

 

The reality is, many foreigners here do not fit that stereo type, yet do not have access to a lump sum, or are not prepared to move a lump sum into Thailand, and for the elderly guys, I can understand why.

 

Then, there are guys who are quite comfortably living here on less than 65k a month, particularly those who prefer living up north, in a rural setting.

 

For the record, I am not complaining about the new rules. I can put 800k in the bank, but I chose not to.  I will be leaving, but visiting as often as I can. 

 

Like many caught up in this, I hope to do 6 months in Thailand and 6 months in another country.  Thai immigration will not be sending me back to my home country, just sending me to a another country nearby.  I know myself, and my contribution to the Thai economy, will not be missed for those 6 months, so don't waste your time with the usual trolling comments on it.

 

Just on the trolling comments, many on here who have put the 800k in the bank see themselves as more worthy, or having more right to stay here, than those who do not have 800k in the bank.  It's each to their own, but my view is, I will not be forced to prop up the Thai banking system, for the purpose of gaining a particular visa.

 

The comments like, don't let the door hit you on the way out, and you and your money will not be missed here, can easily be turned around to comments like, only a fool would get 1.5% instead of 8% for their money, or, if you can't use your money due to seasoning, that makes for an expensive visa every year.

 

I say this not to offend anyone using the 800k method, but there is a lot of baiting and trolling comments directed towards people who either can not, or chose not, to do the 800k method, despite many of these people contributing to society and the Thai economy.

 

So, back to blacklisting, in my case, I will be effectively blacklisted from Thailand for about 6 months of the year, maybe more if I start to read of mass detentions at the airports of people coming to Thailand on regular tourists visas.  This does not mean I am a bad person, or a poor person, or a criminal.  It just means I am not prepared to be forced into moving 800k into Thailand, that pays very little interest, and that I can't use for a period of time.  

 

Like some others on this thread, I can leave Thailand without too many problems.  I always saw Thailand as an unstable country for foreigners, and the new visa rules indicate that.  I do not envy those with assets here, that may not be able to enjoy the use of those assets, due to the new visa rules.  These guys will either have to pay, or to sell up and live lite, like they can leave Thailand at a moments notice. 

 

In my opinion, when the dust settles on the new rules, they will look to see where foreigners are getting around the rules, and then focus on that.  I predict land boarders to be tightened up considerably, and the O-A visa to be a lot harder to get.  This prediction is not scare mongering.  I just think there will be further changes to the visa rules once thousands, yes, thousands, change their visas in the future. 

Edited March 17, 2019 by Leaver

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

he topic is about what happens when people are blacklisted with assets.

People are blacklisted. Do you accept that fact? If not, you're being ridiculous.

Obviously some of the people that are blacklisted have major assets. 

What about being blacklisted with my Thai 7 year old son?

I do wonder what would happen to him if I didn't come back.

 

I don't care about the house/car/m/c.

[dotpoom]

7 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

and this is why we have rule number one for living in Thailand.

 

Never bring more into the country than you are willing to lose.

 

 

Never heard of that one ..how many more are there?

[Leaver]

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

What about being blacklisted with my Thai 7 year old son?

I do wonder what would happen to him if I didn't come back.

 

I don't care about the house/car/m/c.

Good point.

 

There would be many here that the new visa laws could tear the family apart, or see Thai Nationals (mother / children) no long being able to reside in their own country, due to their association with a foreigner, who either can not, or will not, meet the new rules. 

 

There must be a lot of foreigners on the phone back home to their financial advisor, real estate agent, stock broker, lawyer etc, all to raise money to do what they have been doing here for years, that is, living here legally, and contributing to society. 

 

In cases like this, the Thai Government is effectively using emotional blackmail to redistribute the foreigner's wealth, and channel it into Thailand. 

[Leaver]

7 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

and this is why we have rule number one for living in Thailand.

 

Never bring more into the country than you are willing to lose.

 

 

Yes, that's rule No. 1, but how many will bring in 800k, because they now have to, which earns them next to nothing, and can't be accessed for a period of time? 

 

To a degree, isn't that effectively "losing" it? 

[Cryingdick]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

This sort of post NOT WELCOME.

Again, if you know anything pertinent to the questions in the OP, please post.

If you don't, please DO NOT POST. 

 

You can't just continue to open threads and have hostility when it isn't music to your ears. you seem to think any thread you open is purely yours to curate.

[scorecard]

I happen to have a copy of my condo ownership documents in the U.S. Would that help at all?

 

I would hope that everybody has a copy / scan of every personal document and up to date posted to your own e.mail account or a cloud storage etc.

 

I'm aware of one farang in BKK who worries way too much, he panics at every posting on these subjects, and he panics about changes in the weather etc., he spends a couple of hours every day ensuring he's got an up to date document about everything all scans everything and quickly posts to his 3 e.mail accounts, plus he posts to his son's e.mail account (son located in the UK) he scans all of his several bank savings accounts every 48 hours, and posts.

 

His 3 e.mail accounts are different providers, and he keeps the same copies / scan in some form of cloud storage.  

 

(Further, he has every water, telephone, electricity bill, all with some form of receipt for payment for at least the last 5 years. Plus he keeps all the receipts / purchase listings from the Foodland supermarket he frequents. He's convinced they might be needed sometime in the future.)

 

[SteveK]

40 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I'm aware of one farang in BKK who worries way too much, he panics at every posting on these subjects, and he panics about changes in the weather etc., he spends a couple of hours every day ensuring he's got an up to date document about everything all scans everything and quickly posts to his 3 e.mail accounts, plus he posts to his son's e.mail account (son located in the UK) he scans all of his several bank savings accounts every 48 hours, and posts.

 

His 3 e.mail accounts are different providers, and he keeps the same copies / scan in some form of cloud storage.  

 

(Further, he has every water, telephone, electricity bill, all with some form of receipt for payment for at least the last 5 years. Plus he keeps all the receipts / purchase listings from the Foodland supermarket he frequents. He's convinced they might be needed sometime in the future.)

 

Sounds pretty damn smart to me, seeing that some of the requests from Thai officials are quite frankly outrageous. I think I'm going to buy a scanner tomorrow, but knowing Thailand, a scanned and printed copy wouldn't be accepted anyway, so not sure that it's any use other than to make me feel better.

 

If the official is not in a good mood, it doesn't matter what paperwork you give them, they will find a way to refuse you. I've had people tell me that two signatures of mine, done a couple of months apart were not identical enough so I was sent away, never had this happen to me anywhere else in the world so I could only assume that they were holding out for me to "drop" a thousand baht note on the floor. I'm brutally aware of the fact that arguing in Thailand gets you nowhere, and pushing and forcing a situation causes them to lose face if you prove to be correct. Better to come back the next day or go somewhere else.

 

But even with all these issues, Thailand is still better than my home country in so many ways.

 

However, : "Don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner".

Edited March 18, 2019 by pr9spk

[lamyai3]

23 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Yes, that's rule No. 1, but how many will bring in 800k, because they now have to, which earns them next to nothing, and can't be accessed for a period of time? 

 

To a degree, isn't that effectively "losing" it? 

Interest rates in the West have been lousy for the past decade, and a FD here may well slightly improve on them.

 

But the old adage about walking away still holds true. It's not about poor investment returns, but much more about the risk of losing everything. 

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

only a fool would get 1.5% instead of 8% for their money

Question of priorities.

Some prefer the tranquility of mind ( no worries so far with the 800000 on a bankbook and observe the rules attached to) than obtaining a few thousand more interest. 

[Cryingdick]

The chances are about 90% you will not be able to liquidate your holding and be able to funnel the money out of Thailand.

[Henricus]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

 

I just heard of a case of a man deported and blacklisted for a ONE DAY overstay. Not at the airport of course where it would have been OK. 

 

ONE DAY after the 90 days overstay i presume!!!!!!

 

[brokenbone]

17 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Question of priorities.

Some prefer the tranquility of mind ( no worries so far with the 800000 on a bankbook and observe the rules attached to) than obtaining a few thousand more interest. 

tranquility of mind is my no1 priority,

but after witnessing never-ending changes to visa, on nearly a yearly basis for well over a decade,

and reading of denied/expelled every week on tvf,

that just isnt going to happen without citizenship

or at least permanent residency

Edited March 18, 2019 by brokenbone

[canthai55]

I have to laugh at all these doom and gloom topics.

The rules are clear - for now.

If and when they change - change along with them - adapt or move.