Going back to australia to get your pension

madmen · May 11, 2019

12 minutes ago, scorecard said:

So from your comment I'm guessing that living in a hotel for 2 years would not be accepted as re-establishing residency, but renting an apartment (perhaps on an annual basis and renewed for a second year) would be accepted?

You can live where you like. On a boat ,caravan..anywhere but you will need some type of permanent residence to receive mail and so they can log you in their system. If you travel a lot There are companies on the internet that for a fee will provide you with an address and forward mail after scanning it

Forget Western Australia hotels they are crazy expensive. Your better off looking at air bnb https://www.airbnb.com/

Edited May 11, 2019 by madmen

scorecard · May 11, 2019

12 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

If you were planning on returning to Australia permanently the DVA Service Pension with the Gold Card would win hands down over the AAP.

Sure, that's true, but the DVA approach / regulations about residency and re-establishing residency are different to the OAP regulations about residency and re-establishing residency.

Example, the DVA already have on record that I live in Thailand with my Thai son and his wife and my son is recorded as my caregiver. So if I went back to Australia, rented for 2 years then returned to Thailand. then asked for my Service Pension to be deposited direct to a bank account in Thailand they would then say I never had any real genuine intent to re-establish residency in Australia and would therefore not approve /cancel the DVA Service Pension. They've already told me all of this, quite specific.

.

Edited May 11, 2019 by scorecard

LosLobo · May 11, 2019

6 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Thanks for that.

In my case I have no surviving family in Australia (or anywhere), all deceased more than 2 decades ago.

So from your comment I'm guessing that living in a hotel for 2 years would not be accepted as re-establishing residency, but renting an apartment (perhaps on an annual basis and renewed for a second year) would be accepted?

But on completion of the 24 months back in Australia how does the pensioner transition from being in Australia to returning to Thailand on a permanent basis and keeping the OAP for life living abroad?

I'm guessing there would be some type of assessment of the situation (after the 24 months in Australia has been completed) to gain an official approval to go to Thailand and receive the OAP for life, in Thailand?

Would the pensioner have to show that he has gone to Thailand but is still maintaining the rental on the apartment for a third year, or??

Remember that when applying for the AAP you will have to sign a declaration that you have relinquished residence in Thailand and you have returned to permanent residence in Australia.

You should be mindful of the consequences and implications of doing this.

You do not have to apply to Centrelink for pension portability or permission to travel overseas but you have to notify them of your intention to travel overseas.

This can be done through the MyGov portal.

scorecard · May 11, 2019

17 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

If you were planning on returning to Australia permanently the DVA Service Pension with the Gold Card would win hands down over the AAP.

Very true, however my intent is to return to Thailand to be with my Thai son and his wife and my 3 wonderful grandkids, who give me enormous love and care.

As already mentioned I have no surviving family in Australia and therefore as I get older nobody to give me any support, help or care.

scorecard · May 11, 2019

1 minute ago, LosLobo said:

Remember that when applying for the AAP you will have to sign a declaration that you have relinquished residence in Thailand and you have returned to permanent residence in Australia.

You should be mindful of the consequences and implications of doing this.

You do not have to apply to Centrelink for pension portability or permission to travel overseas but you have to notify them of your intention to travel overseas.

This can be done through the MyGov portal.

Valuable details, thank you.

I'm guessing "...sign a declaration that you have relinquished residence in Thailand and you have returned to permanent residence in Australia.: would come up at the time of applying, in Australia for the OAP and the various documents would be revealing that until very recently the applicant was not in Australia? I've seen mention before that centrelink have access to Australian passport records and do check those records as needed.

Can an application for the OAP be lodged before returning to Australia?

LosLobo · May 11, 2019

26 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Sure, that's true, but the DVA approach / regulations about residency and re-establishing residency are different to the OAP regulations about residency and re-establishing residency.

Example, the DVA already have on record that I live in Thailand with my Thai son and his wife and my son is recorded as my caregiver. So if I went back to Australia, rented for 2 years then returned to Thailand. then asked for my Service Pension to be deposited direct to a bank account in Thailand they would then say I never had any real genuine intent to re-establish residency in Australia and would therefore not approve /cancel the DVA Service Pension. They've already told me all of this, quite specific.

.

So you don't think the DVA and Centrelink don't communicate. Your family ties to Thailand would affect any AAP residency claim.

Edited May 11, 2019 by LosLobo

LosLobo · May 11, 2019

3 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Valuable details, thank you.

I'm guessing "...sign a declaration that you have relinquished residence in Thailand and you have returned to permanent residence in Australia.: would come up at the time of applying, in Australia for the OAP and the various documents would be revealing that until very recently the applicant was not in Australia? I've seen mention before that centrelink have access to Australian passport records and do check those records as needed.

Can an application for the OAP be lodged before returning to Australia?

No needs to be lodged in Australia. This seems a very slippery path and I would advise against it. Personally I would be happy with your current DVA pension.

LosLobo · May 11, 2019

14 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

No needs to be lodged in Australia. This seems a very slippery path and I would advise against it. Personally I would be happy with your current DVA pension.

Remember living in Australia is expensive! Do a cost/benefit analysis of your plan. The 18% gain in your income over your life expectancy will not compensate you for the money that you will spend in Australia.

There is also the high risk that the plan is doomed for failure with the inherent penalties. Be smart!

scorecard · May 11, 2019

26 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

So you don't think the DVA and Centrelink don't communicate. Your family ties to Thailand would affect any AAP residency claim.

Well that's been on my mind and I was about to ask you about that point, you got in first, so they do compare notes. And given that point your further comment about a 'slippery slope' very important.

A further point could be (repeat could be) that if centrelink did discuss any application with the DVA it may even but my disability pension in jeopardy which I absolutely would not want.

scorecard · May 11, 2019

3 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Remember living in Australia is expensive! Do a cost/benefit analysis of your plan. The 18% gain in your income over your life expectancy will not compensate you for the money that you will spend in Australia.

There is also the high risk that the plan is doomed for failure with the inherent penalties. Be smart!

All good points.

From the comments and details you have kindly shared I've become very educated on this subject within a few hours, thank you, appreciated.

simple1 · May 11, 2019

@scorecard

For Centrelink International try the number below, they should point you in the right direction.

+61 3 6222 2799.

I assume you have contacted the RSL for welfare services. I understand RSL has Veteran Villages for care services. If not already done so why not reach out to them to see if they can assist.

https://rsllifecare.org.au/the-returned-services-league/

Civilian Age Pension takes about 13 weeks to process after application & is back paid. Assume Defense related stuff would take longer due to bureaucracy.

Best of luck. If you need any local follow up in Oz, PM me & I'll see if I can research some constructive feedback for you.

ThaiBunny · May 11, 2019

5 hours ago, LosLobo said:

You do not have to apply to Centrelink for pension portability or permission to travel overseas but you have to notify them of your intention to travel overseas. This can be done through the MyGov portal.

I wonder how many pensioners actually do this. I understood Immigration links the passport to your Centrelink records anyway

LosLobo · May 12, 2019

10 hours ago, scorecard said:

All good points.

From the comments and details you have kindly shared I've become very educated on this subject within a few hours, thank you, appreciated.

The Department of Veterans’ Affairs (DVA) administers income support payments made to Australian veterans on behalf of the Department of Human Services (Centrelink).

For a 74 year old it is illogical to think that there is an 18% disparity in pensions paid by virtually the same entity.

Both disabled veteran and aged pensions are basically the same pension and are income and means tested by the same formulae.

I can only assume that the 18% reduction in payment is because of your existing investments and/or assets and that the 18% difference would apply across the board on either pension.

I think you are chasing your tail here!

Nevertheless I think you are a lucky man having your loving family to care for you. Any pensioner in either country would be envious. ????

Edited May 12, 2019 by LosLobo

steven100 · May 12, 2019

I know this has been discussed many times. There is absolutely no way in hell I would go back and spend 2 years of my life in a shit hole just to be eligible to apply for the OAP.

No guarantee of approval as I believe one has had to have been in Australia or worked in Australia 35 years minimum.

Edited May 12, 2019 by steven100

Lantern · May 12, 2019

Whatever the situation now, it will likely be different when the time comes.

scorecard · May 12, 2019

6 hours ago, simple1 said:

@scorecard

For Centrelink International try the number below, they should point you in the right direction.

+61 3 6222 2799.

I assume you have contacted the RSL for welfare services. I understand RSL has Veteran Villages for care services. If not already done so why not reach out to them to see if they can assist.

https://rsllifecare.org.au/the-returned-services-league/

Civilian Age Pension takes about 13 weeks to process after application & is back paid. Assume Defense related stuff would take longer due to bureaucracy.

Best of luck. If you need any local follow up in Oz, PM me & I'll see if I can research some constructive feedback for you.

Thank you for all of that, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and your offers of help / guidance.

The comprehensive comments and sharing I've picked up over the last 24 hrs (which I'm very thankful for) has given me quite an education on this whole subject.

One of the many key points is the confirmation that centrelink compares notes with the DVA. Meaning that if I did attempt the Age pension route then the first step would be the re-establishment of a home in OZ and be there for 2 years and they would reject my 'plan' because of the info. they would pick up from the DVA.

For the DVA Service Pension there is nearly 100% same requirement; return to OZ and actively re-establish a permanent home and be there for 2 years. The problem, for me, is that the DVA already have on record that I live permanently with my Thai son and his wife in Thailand and it's on DVA files that my son is my declared caregiver.

Therefore in the view of the DVA I have already stated that Thailand is my permanent home with substantive reasons (son is my caregiver) and any attempt now to actively re-establish a permanent home, even if bought a home etc., would be rejected by the DVA as 'proof' that I have re-established a permanent home in OZ.

Now to my ultimate point re trying the Age pension route (sorry this is so long winded) that would also not work because it seems to be well prove that the DVA and centrelink share information on cases like this. Knocked out in one means knocked out in both.

Ultimately as LosLobo has wisely pointed out, I am very lucky to have a devoted family here in Thailand who spend a lot of time and energy and thought and love in my welfare and care.

My son was brought up to think in western terms and also in the Thai / Asian ways and philosophies (my Thai wife / my son's mother, since sadly passed away), was a doctor of medicine, she came from a poor rural village, as a kid (before the internet etc.,) she found scholarships, grants etc., Thai and from offshore, to get herself through school and eventually a full scholarship to study medicine in Australia, then another scholarship in OZ to do her medical specialization and she returned to Thailand, (with English at pretty much native speaker level) with the aim of sharing her medical capabilities with the poor.

Whilst in Australia she was very observant / studied the Australian psyche, typical daily family and societal behaviors, attitudes values etc. She admired the classless society factor and she instilled this in our only son and it was obvious in her work, the way she interacted with patients, nurses, and all folks.

It was her idea (which I readily supported), from day 1 that we only speak English at home (in Bkk) so that our son was fully immersed in both languages, and today he is a native speaker of Thai and English (and he instituted the same policy when his 1st child was born. Now all 3 of his kids speak both Thai and English at the same level and have no hesitation to use both languages).

Back to today, my son, with his Thai / Asian hat on, sees that taking care of me is his absolute responsibility, his duty and also he must do it because of his love for his father (his wife has the same thinking).

I did try earlier to mention to my son about the possibility of going back to OZ for 2 years. His response; he was horrified, in a nutshell 'no I have to take care of you because I love you and you are my responsibility'. all with tears in his eyes. Plus 'please forget that idea and please we don't want to talk about it again'.

Yes I'm pretty lucky.

Edited May 12, 2019 by scorecard

madmen · May 12, 2019

34 minutes ago, steven100 said:

I know this has been discussed many times. There is absolutely no way in hell I would go back and spend 2 years of my life in a shit hole just to be eligible to apply for the OAP.

No guarantee of approval as I believe one has have to have been in Australia or worked in Australia 35 years minimum.

I think you still get if under 35 years but on a pro rata basis. A shithole? I rate it as The best country on the planet

steven100 · May 12, 2019

9 minutes ago, madmen said:

I think you still get if under 35 years but on a pro rata basis. A shithole? I rate it as The best country on the planet

ok ..... I think you maybe correct on the pro rata basis ..... so every year under 35 the entitled rate would go down. I just think that two years is way too long to give up family & friends and an established life here in Thailand, and Australia is expensive .... try renting a 2 bedroom apartment or a house anywhere. Maybe a hotel, but two years in a hotel room ??? no thanks.

madmen · May 12, 2019

1 minute ago, steven100 said:

ok ..... I think you maybe correct on the pro rata basis ..... so every year under 35 the entitled rate would go down. I just think that two years is way too long to give up family & friends and an established life here in Thailand, and Australia is expensive .... try renting a 2 bedroom apartment or a house anywhere. Maybe a hotel, but two years in a hotel room ??? no thanks.

Why do you need a 2 bedroom? check out Air BNB, easiest way and no need to pay a months deposit or sign a contract. Im heading back for 6 months and thats what I will do

scorecard · May 12, 2019

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Thank you for all of that, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and your offers of help / guidance.

The comprehensive comments and sharing I've picked up over the last 24 hrs (which I'm very thankful for) has given me quite an education on this whole subject.

One of the many key points is the confirmation that centrelink compares notes with the DVA. Meaning that if I did attempt the Age pension route then the first step would be the re-establishment of a home in OZ and be there for 2 years and they would reject my 'plan' because of the info. they would pick up from the DVA.

For the DVA Service Pension there is nearly 100% same requirement; return to OZ and actively re-establish a permanent home and be there for 2 years. The problem, for me, is that the DVA already have on record that I live permanently with my Thai son and his wife in Thailand and it's on DVA files that my son is my declared caregiver.

Therefore in the view of the DVA I have already stated that Thailand is my permanent home with substantive reasons (son is my caregiver) and any attempt now to actively re-establish a permanent home, even if bought a home etc., would be rejected by the DVA as 'proof' that I have re-established a permanent home in OZ.

Now to my ultimate point re trying the Age pension route (sorry this is so long winded) that would also not work because it seems to be well prove that the DVA and centrelink share information on cases like this. Knocked out in one means knocked out in both.

Ultimately as LosLobo has wisely pointed out, I am very lucky to have a devoted family here in Thailand who spend a lot of time and energy and thought and love in my welfare and care.

My son was brought up to think in western terms and also in the Thai / Asian ways and philosophies (my Thai wife / my son's mother, since sadly passed away), was a doctor of medicine, she came from a poor rural village, as a kid (before the internet etc.,) she found scholarships, grants etc., Thai and from offshore, to get herself through school and eventually a full scholarship to study medicine in Australia, then another scholarship in OZ to do her medical specialization and she returned to Thailand, (with English at pretty much native speaker level) with the aim of sharing her medical capabilities with the poor.

Whilst in Australia she was very observant / studied the Australian psyche, typical daily family and societal behaviors, attitudes values etc. She admired the classless society factor and she instilled this in our only son and it was obvious in her work, the way she interacted with patients, nurses, and all folks.

It was her idea (which I readily supported), from day 1 that we only speak English at home (in Bkk) so that our son was fully immersed in both languages, and today he is a native speaker of Thai and English (and he instituted the same policy when his 1st child was born. Now all 3 of his kids speak both Thai and English at the same level and have no hesitation to use both languages).

Back to today, my son, with his Thai / Asian hat on, sees that taking care of me is his absolute responsibility, his duty and also he must do it because of his love for his father (his wife has the same thinking).

I did try earlier to mention to my son about the possibility of going back to OZ for 2 years. His response; he was horrified, in a nutshell 'no I have to take care of you because I love you and you are my responsibility'. all with tears in his eyes. Plus 'please forget that idea and please we don't want to talk about it again'.

Yes I'm pretty lucky.

I've noted comments from TV members that both OZ political parties are saying they will make substantial increases in many benefits if elected in the coming soon federal elections, from the dole to pensions and more.

Does any member have anything to share please which gives more substantial details on these proposals, specific to pensions? I am assuming that any lift in the OAP would flow through to the DVA service pension and the disability pension etc.

Thanks.

simple1 · May 12, 2019

@scorecard. Thanks for the wonderful background post. Yes you are a truly lucky man, though I suggest you have earned the 'luck'. I sincerely wish you a joy filled journey.

Peter

simple1 · May 12, 2019

5 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I've noted comments from TV members that both OZ political parties are saying they will make substantial increases in many benefits if elected in the coming soon federal elections, from the dole to pensions and more.

Does any member have anything to share please which gives more substantial details on these proposals, specific to pensions? I am assuming that any lift in the OAP would flow through to the DVA service pension and the disability pension etc.

Thanks.

IMO any promises made by either party are questionable due to being reliant on minor parties to get any new tax legislation enacted. One hopes groups such as Clive Palmer don't get any seats. IMO Morrison govt would be less likely to budget for welfare increases, but one area may get up which is the NewStart allowance for the unemployed as currently it's a pittance.

ThaiBunny · May 12, 2019

36 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I've noted comments from TV members that both OZ political parties are saying they will make substantial increases in many benefits if elected in the coming soon federal elections, from the dole to pensions and more.

The only benefit where anything has been promised is Newstart (aka. the dole) and all that's been promised is "a review". Nothing else has been promised except a two-year, up to $1,000 "dental benefit", by Labor. Both sides have been silent on any increase to pensions. There are no "substantial" increases to any benefits

LosLobo · May 12, 2019

2 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

The only benefit where anything has been promised is Newstart (aka. the dole) and all that's been promised is "a review". Nothing else has been promised except a two-year, up to $1,000 "dental benefit", by Labor. Both sides have been silent on any increase to pensions. There are no "substantial" increases to any benefits

Another benefit, if you can call it that, is the Labor Party "Pensioner Guarantee" for Dividend Imputation Credits.

Pensioners and allowance recipients will be protected from the abolition of cash refunds for excess dividend imputation ie franking credits, when the policy commences in July 2019.

Nemises · May 15, 2019

I've noted comments from TV members that both OZ political parties are saying they will make substantial increases in many benefits if elected in the coming soon federal elections, from the dole to pensions and more.

Does any member have anything to share please which gives more substantial details on these proposals, specific to pensions? I am assuming that any lift in the OAP would flow through to the DVA service pension and the disability pension etc.

Thanks.

Clive Palmer says he’ll increase the OAP by $150 !

Nemises · May 15, 2019

The ALP have “vowed” to raise the dole if elected.
Unions and the Australian Council of Social Service want a weekly $75 increase to the fortnightly Newstart rate.

simple1 · May 15, 2019

24 minutes ago, Nemises said:

The ALP have “vowed” to raise the dole if elected.
Unions and the Australian Council of Social Service want a weekly $75 increase to the fortnightly Newstart rate.

ALP have promised a review, god only knows how long to legislate the outcome. However, something is better than nothing, but even a $75 p.w. increase would not provide a viable livable welfare rate. I bet the majority on NewStart are working part time cash in hand to survive.

Edited May 15, 2019 by simple1

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