US defends its presence at police station in Thanathorn case

[webfact]

US defends its presence at police station in Thanathorn case

By THE NATION

 

 

THE FOREIGN Ministry yesterday summoned foreign envoys one by one to accuse their embassies of taking sides in Thai politics.

 

The ministry’s diplomatic aide memoir objected to the presence of envoys at Pathumwan Police Station last Saturday when Future Forward Party leader Thanathorn Juangroongruangkit arrived to hear charges against him. But the US Embassy told The Nation that attendance at legal prosecutions is standard practice.

 

“Regardless of the intention, the presence of embassies’ representatives at the police station, with such visibility and [with] the publicity it generated, was clearly an act of political significance, seen by the Thai public largely as a show of moral support for Mr Thanathorn,” read the aide memoir, a copy of which has been seen by The Nation. 

 

Representatives of the United Nations Human Rights Commissioner, the European Union, the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, France, Belgium, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark, Finland, Germany and the Netherlands were present at the police station on Saturday when Thanathorn arrived to hear sedition and other criminal charges. 

 

 The charges referred to his presence at an anti-junta protest in 2015 and alleged that he had provided a vehicle for a protester to escape detention. 

 

The billionaire-turned-politician accused the junta of harbouring a political motive for prosecuting him after his party did far better than expected in the March 24 election, capturing more than 80 seats in the House of Representatives. 

 

Future Forward joined the pro-democracy and anti-junta camp that includes the Pheu Thai Party, bidding to compete against the pro-junta Phalang Pracharat to form a government after the election. 

 

The international community and local rights groups have criticised the junta for its plan to try Thanathorn in a military court. 

 

Foreign Minister Don Pramudwinai on Tuesday slammed the envoys who showed up on Saturday, saying their presence was diplomatically inappropriate. Foreign representatives could get involved in the Thai judicial process only when their own citizens were prosecuted, he said. 

 

The ministry’s aide memoir says the Thai government respects the rights of foreign embassies to monitor political developments and observe events of significance for the benefit of their analysis and assessment and for promoting friendly relations. But the incident at the police station while police were carrying out their duty “was clearly not consistent with international practice and obligation”, it continues. 

 

However, deputy National Police chief Srivara Rangsibhramanakul said the diplomats were invited to a briefing after Thanathorn’s interrogation at Pathum Wan Police station had finished. They did not join the session as expected, he said. 

 

The US Embassy, whose political counsellor was at the police station on Saturday, said having representatives attend such prosecution proceedings is standard diplomatic practice. 

 

“The US interest in this case, as in many other cases, is to observe the judicial process and obtain first-hand information about the handling of the case,” said Jillian Bonnardeaux, the embassy spokesperson. US Charge d’Affaires Peter Haymond was among the diplomats who met separately with a senior official at the foreign ministry yesterday to take the aide memoir. 

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/politics/30367503

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2019-04-11

[Odysseus123]

Well done the representatives of;

The UN.

US

UK

Canada

France

Belgium

Australia

New Zealand

Denmark

Finland

Germany

The Netherlands.

[sead]

This is indeed going to be interesting to follow.

[Hank Gunn]

36 minutes ago, webfact said:

The ministry’s aide memoir says the Thai government respects the rights of foreign embassies to monitor political developments and observe events of significance for the benefit of their analysis and assessment and for promoting friendly relations.

That’s exactly what the US and other countries’ consular officials did, “observe events of significance”. If they had actually “meddled” in Thai affairs, they would have slapped sanctions on the tin-pot “generals” just as they’ve done to many of the Russian oligarchs and Iranian Mullahs.

 

Typical Thailand, all style and no substance. Their own website (thaiembassy.org) likes to boast about being “...among the first 48 countries to endorse the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948.” as if just signing the doc and talking/bragging about it is good enough. When they’re actually called on it, you get Don Julio here squealing like a little girl.

[Enoon]

46 minutes ago, Hank Gunn said:

 

 

Typical Thailand, all style and no substance. Their own website (thaiembassy.org) likes to boast about being “...among the first 48 countries to endorse the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948.” as if just signing the doc and talking/bragging about it is good enough. When they’re actually called on it, you get Don Julio here squealing like a little girl.

 

They do not believe in the Universal Declaration any more (if they ever really did).

 

They and several other authoritarian regimes subsequently decided that they would pick and choose what to adhere to.

 

The Asians got together (to make their joint declaration of continued authoritarian subversion of human rights) in......Bangkok:

 

"During the lead up to the World Conference on Human Rights held in 1993, ministers from Asian states adopted the Bangkok Declaration, reaffirming their governments' commitment to the principles of the United Nations Charter and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights."

 

However:

 

"The Bangkok Declaration is considered to be a landmark expression of the Asian values perspective, which offers an extended critique of human rights universalism."

 

"Asian values" were codified and promoted in the Bangkok Declaration of 1993, which re-emphasized the principles of sovereignty, self-determination, and non-interference in civil and political rights. They included:

• Preference for social harmony;
• Concern with socio-economic prosperity and the collective well-being of the community;
• Loyalty and respect towards figures of authority;
• Preference for collectivism and communitarianism."

 

Asian values - Wikipedia

 

It's back.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Enoon

[bluesofa]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Foreign Minister Don Pramudwinai on Tuesday slammed the envoys who showed up on Saturday,

Surprised he didn't come out with the phrase used by someone before: "The UN is not my father."

 

[Lacessit]

The junta is understandably nervous. Having foreign diplomats taking an interest in what should be an internal affair is sending a very clear message to the generals that their shenanigans and rigging could have repercussions economically.

[observer90210]

And of course all the countries mentioned in the list above are flawless and have no mess to clean up within their national borders !

 

No, this is not an apology of the junta or anything similar.

 

Humbly, I  believe that they can protest, for sure, but through diplomatic channels by having each country summon the  Thai Ambassador posted within their borders,  and give him a good remontrance within the walls of their ministries. That's how things are usually done amongst other nations.

 

But not physically take a stance in front of a Police Station.

 

In this case, the western diplomats may have contributed to rise the junta into martyr status, junta who can now openly protest and speculate on being insulted and persecuted by the nasty gang of farang envoys.

 

But who knows , it maybe plainly and only in the interest for good for business to show solidarity towards a billionaire,  who can gain power one day ? (despite the fact that he surely is a brave and a brillant man).

IMHO of course.

 

(I think that I will again get bashed here  ????)

Edited April 10, 2019 by observer90210

[Aussie999]

15 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

And of course all the countries mentioned in the list above are flawless and have no mess to clean up within their national borders !

 

And of course, it is always good for business to help out a billionaire who can gain power one day ? (despite the fact that he must be a brillant man).

 

And No, this is not an apology of the junta or anything similar. Thank you very much.

 

(I think that I will again get bashed here ????)

This is NOT about the "flaws" of other nations, it is about what is happening in Thailand.... or DON'T you care?

[observer90210]

7 minutes ago, Aussie999 said:

This is NOT about the "flaws" of other nations, it is about what is happening in Thailand.... or DON'T you care?

Kindly abide to fair play with honesty and quote my full post and not just take sentences out of context. Thank you.

 

But as you have taken the trouble.....you say it is NOT about "flaws".  Fine. But, in your line of thought, it is a bit like ignoring a totally drunk cop, reprimanding a car driver for DUI ????.

Edited April 10, 2019 by observer90210

[a977]

If the Diplomats were invited by the deputy national police chief then what's the problem or is it the fact that the so called leaders can't get their act together and talk to one another.

Maybe it's about time all these old generals were retired out to pasture so they can reflect on their glory days of doing nothing but running around shooting innocent people

[bluesofa]

1 minute ago, a977 said:

If the Diplomats were invited by the deputy national police chief then what's the problem or is it the fact that the so called leaders can't get their act together and talk to one another.

Maybe it's about time all these old generals were retired out to pasture so they can reflect on their glory days of doing nothing but running around shooting innocent people

Only problem is, having 1,600 generals would take forever to get them retarded retired.

 

[a977]

Just now, bluesofa said:

Only problem is, having 1,600 generals would take forever to get them retarded retired.

 

There already retarded, they just need relocation to a new paddock

[YetAnother]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

seen by the Thai public largely as a show of moral support for Mr Thanathorn,”

so what; more thai paper-thin ego; this is a non-issue ; focus on the politically motivated prosecution

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, observer90210 said:

And of course all the countries mentioned in the list above are flawless and have no mess to clean up within their national borders !

 

No, this is not an apology of the junta or anything similar.

 

Humbly, I  believe that they can protest, for sure, but through diplomatic channels by having each country summon the  Thai Ambassador posted within their borders,  and give him a good remontrance within the walls of their ministries. That's how things are usually done amongst other nations.

 

But not physically take a stance in front of a Police Station.

 

In this case, the western diplomats may have contributed to rise the junta into martyr status, junta who can now openly protest and speculate on being insulted and persecuted by the nasty gang of farang envoys.

 

But who knows , it maybe plainly and only in the interest for good for business to show solidarity towards a billionaire,  who can gain power one day ? (despite the fact that he surely is a brave and a brillant man).

IMHO of course.

 

(I think that I will again get bashed here  ????)

"In this case, the western diplomats may have contributed to rise the junta into martyr status..."

 

Funny, I presented a similar argument after the 2014 coup regarding the Shinawatra family.  The "anything Thaksin is bad, anything anti-Thaksin is good" crowd were outraged.

[observer90210]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

"In this case, the western diplomats may have contributed to rise the junta into martyr status..."

 

Funny, I presented a similar argument after the 2014 coup regarding the Shinawatra family.  The "anything Thaksin is bad, anything anti-Thaksin is good" crowd were outraged.

Good for you Sir in that case.

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

"In this case, the western diplomats may have contributed to rise the junta into martyr status..."

 

Funny, I presented a similar argument after the 2014 coup regarding the Shinawatra family.  The "anything Thaksin is bad, anything anti-Thaksin is good" crowd were outraged.

Comparing a true corrupt criminal with Thanathorn is an insult to Thanathorn. 

 

Sure the proceedings against Thaksin were motivated by wanting to get rid of him but they had substance to them. This is a totally different thing. 

 

Comparing something this minor with all the real cases against Thaksin is truly an insult. 

 

My opinion of course and I stand with it. I am anti junta and anti Thaksin. 

[heybruce]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

Comparing a true corrupt criminal with Thanathorn is an insult to Thanathorn. 

 

Sure the proceedings against Thaksin were motivated by wanting to get rid of him but they had substance to them. This is a totally different thing. 

 

Comparing something this minor with all the real cases against Thaksin is truly an insult. 

 

My opinion of course and I stand with it. I am anti junta and anti Thaksin. 

Often one must choose the lesser of two evils.  I will always choose a corrupt democracy over corrupt military rule.

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Often one must choose the lesser of two evils.  I will always choose a corrupt democracy over corrupt military rule.

That is a good point, I did not expect them to stay as long as they did. They never had in the past. But to compare the both of them is really doing Thanathorn a disservice. 

 

I would not support either, but right now I even support a PTP, FFW coalition over a junta one. They are the lesser of two evils even if that includes Thaksin again. But with his power broken down so much i feel a coalition has far less chance of being corrupt then the military government.

[JAG]

1 hour ago, YetAnother said:

so what; more thai paper-thin ego; this is a non-issue ; focus on the politically motivated prosecution

It is not an unreasonable assumption that if Mr Thanathorn had simply turned up at the police station. without being accompanied or observed by foreign diplomats, he would have  been whisked away into military custody, and subsequent "in camera" military trial and detention, on charges which whilst laughably, obviously trumped up, would serve in the Alice in Wonderland topsy-turvey legal world in which the junta live to justify removing him from the current political scene. Any protest by his supporters, or attempts to prevent his arrest, would quite possibly have been brutally dealt with. That is almost certainly why these foreign diplomats, in what is obviously a co-ordinated move, and one which must have been agreed or directed by their governments, attended the performance.

 

Diplomats represent their governments' interests and views. Their presence at the police station sent a clear message that these countries are concerned at attempts to suppress or remove Thanathorn from the Thai political scene.

I'm not surprised that "Don" is a tad upset, 'cos that was surely what they intended to do.

Edited April 11, 2019 by JAG

[puukao]

Do not wake up America on this...

 

Absolutely, 100% the strongest country in the world with easily the most power imaginable.  Second to America is light-years away.....I'm not saying go and wear the red-white-and blue, but i'm saying this is the greatest, biggest elephant the room has ever seen.   please don't even try to debate this.  

[khaowong1]

Well, Ok.  Guess I get to be the first.  The UN is not my father.  Bwahahahahaha

[neeray]

20 minutes ago, puukao said:

Do not wake up America on this...

 

Absolutely, 100% the strongest country in the world with easily the most power imaginable.  Second to America is light-years away.....I'm not saying go and wear the red-white-and blue, but i'm saying this is the greatest, biggest elephant the room has ever seen.   please don't even try to debate this.  

Please "wake up America on this" ! Please, please, please.

Draw all possible attention to this rigged election before it's too late and to the juntas effort to squash their rivals by any and all means

While I welcome the international exposure, I would not welcome the congratulations that Trump would offer the current General-cum-democratically-elected-PM-wannabe for attempting to win by any and all means. Neither one possesses any sense of fair play. Both put personal interest and personal gain over the interests of the electorate.

 

Nice to see that Thanathorn has the attention of the world.

[Lenny Jones]

It's not rocket science to figure out when - suddenly - the current ruling party arrests a potential threat to their leadership with allegations of crimes up to 4 years old.  Their perception of their voters , thinking they will believe this farce, is an insult to Thai intelligence and the rest of the world can plainly see that.

 

Saying foreign envoys is "interfering with Thai politics showing support for one party indicates the level of ignorance and arrogance in the whole farce.

[LomSak27]

18 minutes ago, jesimps said:

Some never miss an opportunity to put the boot into POTUS. I could understand if it was Theresa May.

 

Guess you missed this ..... 

1 hour ago, LomSak27 said:

3 hours ago, davehowden said:

Note to Don: Try not to bring yourself to the attention of POTUS!

 

The post you quoted was a reply to this statement you left out. And everything posted is true

 

He would like to govern like the military does here in Thailand. He does have a 5 minute attention span. He could not find Thailand on a map and he likely has no clue what Thailand is except the vague notion it might be a restaurant. If FOX and friends do not bring it up, he would never think of it on his own.

 

Case closed, that is 100 Percent accurate description of POTUS. Sorry if the truth upsets you.

 

BTW nothing I can do about Theresa May and her painful problems with constipation. 

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by LomSak27

[NCC1701A]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

“The US interest in this case, as in many other cases, is to observe the judicial process and obtain first-hand information about the handling of the case,” said Jillian Bonnardeaux, the embassy spokesperson.

of course we read all your emails, monitor all your internet and radio traffic and listen to your cellphone calls in real time, but it was nice to get out of the office for a change. 

[Eligius]

'The diplomats were invited to a briefing after Thanathorn’s interrogation at Pathum Wan Police station had finished. They did not join the session as expected ...'

 

Ha ha - what a hoot! The sensible diplomats had no wish to sit through a load of old balderdash at some intelligence-insulting 'briefing' given by the mendacious Authorities.

Great that at last the international community are SHOWING that they are getting sick and tired of all the outrageous shenanigans going on in Thailand and are not going to sit meekly by. The entire world knows a disgusting frame-up when they see it. After all, you would have to be blinder than John Milton NOT to see what is going on under the junta.

Everyone sees it, including the Thais (except for those of a fascist disposition, of course!).

 

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by Eligius

[Odysseus123]

44 minutes ago, Eligius said:

'The diplomats were invited to a briefing after Thanathorn’s interrogation at Pathum Wan Police station had finished. They did not join the session as expected ...'

 

Ha ha - what a hoot! The sensible diplomats had no wish to sit through a load of old balderdash at some intelligence-insulting 'briefing' given by the mendacious Authorities.

Great that at last the international community are SHOWING that they are getting sick and tired of all the outrageous shenanigans going on in Thailand and are not going to sit meekly by. The entire world knows a disgusting frame-up when they see it. After all, you would have to be blinder than John Milton NOT to see what is going on under the junta.

Everyone sees it, including the Thais (except for those of a fascist disposition, of course!).

 

 

Yup-the countries which I listed in my initial post do not need to defend themselves on ANYTHING dished up by a ditsy military gov't which is so far divorced from reality that only it's near neighbours (equally discombobulated) keep chanting "Go get 'em tiger!"

 

"T'was brillig and the slithy toves did gyre and jimble in the wabe.."

 

The West has just sent a message..about gyring and jimbling...

Edited April 11, 2019 by Odysseus123

[BestB]

It’s interesting to note 2 things.

 

1. Police have no problem with diplomats being there as confirmed by police , ie police reluctantly want to pursue the case and would prefer it goes away by a force of a 3rd party

 

2. If it was just out of interest before , now Don brought huge spot light on the case by summoning all diplomats turning what could have been a mouse into an elephant.

 

Perfect example of inability to think 1 step ahead.

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Jing jing lor?

 

????

He'll be back after a quick word with his sponsors..