UK parliament very likely to consider new Brexit referendum - Hammond

[stevenl]

30 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

What Thatcher did decades ago is of little relevance now 30 -40 years later.

 

When it comes to employment unfortunately most bosses will put money before loyalty. 

 

IF we quit the EU we can then force our politicians to restrict immigration. The fact that an EU passport will no longer be of such value in the UK will be an important factor.

 

The rise of nationalism in the West and of the Brexit Party and UKIP in Britain will hopefully teach politicians to understand the concept of loyalty and put our own people first. I for one won't hold my breath but we can hope.

She moved production away, and replaced it with easy to imitate and move financial services industry. Very relevant now.

[Kieran00001]

16 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Treaty of Lisbon

Treaty of Nice

Treaty of Amsterdam

Treaty on European Union - Maastricht Treaty

Single European Act

 

Did you not understand the question?  I am not asking when or where the changes you do not like were ratified, I am asking what those changes are, specifically what do you not like that has changed and was not already proposed in 1975?

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, bomber said:

No need to research what i already know...you like others want to blame the EU for you failing to get on in life..pretty sad imo

My life has been fortunate and fine. Happy enough.

 

If you do decide to research what you already know it shouldn't take long.

[Spidey]

Just now, stevenl said:

She moved production away, and replaced it with easy to imitate and move financial services industry. Very relevant now.

It was her very first act when coming to power. She removed the restrictions on taking money abroad allowing big companies to up sticks and move production abroad. Very popular with holidaymakers who were then allowed to take more than the previous £50 limit on their holidays to Spain. Not so popular with the many thousands of factory workers who became unemployed as a result of it. The vanguard of that exodus was Meccano in Liverpool.

[bomber]

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

My life has been fortunate and fine. Happy enough.

 

If you do decide to research what you already know it shouldn't take long.

Reseaching laws that dont effect me is wasting my time...again i ask you what EU laws have hampered your existance

[nauseus]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

 

Did you not understand the question?  I am not asking when or where the changes you do not like were ratified, I am asking what those changes are, specifically what do you not like that has changed and was not already proposed in 1975?

Those treaties, plus the Treaty of Rome are the main changes and reasons. They represent the erosion of sovereignty out of the UK and I don't like any of them. Since 1973, and especially for the last 3 years, the simple question remains: do you want to your country to remain independent or are you happy for it to become a province of a false European power, constructed by a controlling oligarchy of remote, faceless power grabbers?    

[CG1 Blue]

49 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

Between 1997 and 2009 another 65 new health and safety regulations were applied to the UK, 41 of which were made by the EU, no leading the way there. 

This contradicts the remainer argument that the EU don't impose laws and regulations on the UK 

[CG1 Blue]

9 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

What is that you feel we didn't vote for in 1975?

If you don't know the difference between trade cooperation and political union, I can't help you. 

[Kieran00001]

19 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Those treaties, plus the Treaty of Rome are the main changes and reasons. They represent the erosion of sovereignty out of the UK and I don't like any of them. Since 1973, and especially for the last 3 years, the simple question remains: do you want to your country to remain independent or are you happy for it to become a province of a false European power, constructed by a controlling oligarchy of remote, faceless power grabbers?    

 

What is it, within those treaties, and which had not already been proposed by 1975, that you do not like?

 

I mean the  specifics of those treaties.  And claiming things like "erosion of sovereignity", is easy, I expect you to make clear how you feel this has happened, not just that you feel it has, otherwise there is really nothing to talk about and you will either find yourself faced with, "no it didn't", from those who disagree or, alternatively, you will find yourself in a circle jerk with those who agree, either way its not going anywhere, so please be specific.

[Loiner]

sorry after 51 years i dont need to research anything,no EU laws have hampered my life,

If there’s no EU regulation preventing you sitting in your favourite Wetherspoons wearing a union jack onesie, I suppose you would still feel unhampered in a miserable life.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

What is it, within those treaties, and which had not already been proposed by 1975, that you do not like?

 

I mean the  specifics of those treaties.  And claiming things like "erosion of sovereignity", is easy, I expect you to make clear how you feel this has happened, not just that you feel it has, otherwise there is really nothing to talk about and you will either find yourself faced with, "no it didn't", from those who disagree or, alternatively, you will find yourself in a circle jerk with those who agree, either way its not going anywhere, so please be specific.

I don't have time today. Sorry.

 

But you could always go through them for yourself!

[Kieran00001]

17 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

If you don't know the difference between trade cooperation and political union, I can't help you. 

 

There was a political union made before the common market, that was the very first thing they did, Churchill got all the allies to form a political union, the Western European Union, they called it.

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

9 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

You really haven't followed what I said, no it really doesn't have anything to do with the EU because the UK has an exception to free movement negotiated by Thatcher, we don;t have to have free movement to be in the EU, it was not the EU who allowed Poles to come to the UK in 2004, it was Blair, the EU warned him against doing it so early, but he went for it.

Not quite true. EU member states were allowed to postpone the implementation of FOM for up to a maximum of 7 years, but Blair / Labour chose not to do so. Saying we don't have to have FOM to be in the EU is incorrect. See the Treaty of Accession: 

 

"In the Treaty of Accession 2003, the Treaty of Accession 2005, and the Treaty of Accession 2011, there is a clause about a transition period before workers from the new member states can be employed on an equal, non-discriminatory terms in the old member states. The old member states have the right to impose such transitional period for 2 years, then to decide to extend it for additional 3 years, and then, if there is serious proof that labour from new member states would be disruptive to the market in the old member states then the period can be extended for the last time for 2 more years."

[bomber]

2 minutes ago, Loiner said:

If there’s no EU regulation preventing you sitting in your favourite Wetherspoons wearing a union jack onesie, I suppose you would still feel unhampered in a miserable life.

Not miserable my friend,iam about to retire at 51 with amble funds in a nicer place than the UK...and you

[Kieran00001]

23 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

This contradicts the remainer argument that the EU don't impose laws and regulations on the UK 

 

There is no remainer argument that the EU don't impose legislation on the UK.  There is one that most legislation which affects is is been made in the UK, and that is just a fact.  But not all legislation, not in things we have been lagging in for the past 30 years, such as welfare and H&S, those have been led by the EU.

[Kieran00001]

10 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Not quite true. EU member states were allowed to postpone the implementation of FOM for up to a maximum of 7 years, but Blair / Labour chose not to do so. Saying we don't have to have FOM to be in the EU is incorrect. See the Treaty of Accession: 

 

"In the Treaty of Accession 2003, the Treaty of Accession 2005, and the Treaty of Accession 2011, there is a clause about a transition period before workers from the new member states can be employed on an equal, non-discriminatory terms in the old member states. The old member states have the right to impose such transitional period for 2 years, then to decide to extend it for additional 3 years, and then, if there is serious proof that labour from new member states would be disruptive to the market in the old member states then the period can be extended for the last time for 2 more years."

 

That was later, before all that we had a full opt-out of the Social Chapter of the Mastericht Treaty, until in 1997 Blair when tore it up and singed the full treaty, putting us on the road to freedom of movement.

[CG1 Blue]

4 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

That was later, before all that we had a full opt-out of the Social Chapter of the Mastericht Treaty, until in 1997 Blair when tore it up and singed the full treaty, putting us on the road to freedom of movement.

Let me remind you of what you said: "we don;t have to have free movement to be in the EU". Is that true or untrue? 

 

[Loiner]

Not miserable my friend,iam about to retire at 51 with amble funds in a nicer place than the UK...and you

You don’t know where I am, or what I am doing.
You really do sound to have a miserable life if all you can do is gloat and sneer at others.

[CG1 Blue]

16 minutes ago, bomber said:

Not miserable my friend,iam about to retire at 51 with amble funds in a nicer place than the UK...and you

As we've heard many times. I'm convinced this is you: 

 

 

 

[Kieran00001]

18 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Let me remind you of what you said: "we don;t have to have free movement to be in the EU". Is that true or untrue? 

 

 

We were in the EU with the full opt-out from freedom of movement from 1992 to 1997, we decided to no longer opt-out, we could be in the EU today without free movement, sorry for the ambigious grammar, it must be so tough.

[bomber]

24 minutes ago, Loiner said:

You don’t know where I am, or what I am doing.
You really do sound to have a miserable life if all you can do is gloat and sneer at others.

You stated i was miserable...i told you the facts...i never gloated or sneered at you or anyone

[CG1 Blue]

48 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

We were in the EU with the full opt-out from freedom of movement from 1992 to 1997, we decided to no longer opt-out, we could be in the EU today without free movement, sorry for the ambigious grammar, it must be so tough.

What you're now saying is that we could have potentially stayed out of FOM. That is different from stating that we can be in the EU without FOM now. 

In any case, the Treaty of Accession overrode any earlier ability to stop FOM. 

[Kieran00001]

7 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

What you're now saying is that we could have potentially stayed out of FOM. That is different from stating that we can be in the EU without FOM now. 

In any case, the Treaty of Accession overrode any earlier ability to stop FOM. 

 

Cameron promised to get the opt-out back, not on the premise of migration control, he wanted to reduce workers rights to below the EU standard.  But none-the-less it was the same opt-out he was promising that had allowed us to keep control.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/mar/06/eu.politics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-outs_in_the_European_Union

We didn't join Schengen and we opted our of the monetary union, we kept our border and our pound despite these being incorporated into later treaties, nothing has been overridden, they simply write them in if they exist, the only opt-out we no longer have is the one Blair chose to end.

[bomber]

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

As we've heard many times. I'm convinced this is you: 

 

 

 

as your brexiteer mate stated i was miserable i merely stated a little piece of my circumstances,i never claimed to be rich and didnt state a figure,i merely used the term "ample" if it offended you i couldnt give a tooosss,work gets people on in life regrettably on here there are several people feeling sorry for themselves,yet i bet they have always found money for drink,cigs,gambling,drugs and sending to the working girl in thailand,losers is what i like to call them ????

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Cameron promised to get the opt-out back, not on the premise of migration control, he wanted to reduce workers rights to below the EU standard.  But none-the-less it was the same opt-out he was promising that had allowed us to keep control.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/mar/06/eu.politics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-outs_in_the_European_Union

We didn't join Schengen and we opted our of the monetary union, we kept our border and our pound despite these being incorporated into later treaties, nothing has been overridden, they simply write them in if they exist, the only opt-out we no longer have is the one Blair chose to end.

All very interesting, but going off on tangents doesn't alter the fact that FOM applies to the UK whilst in the EU, and nothing can change that.  

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, bomber said:

as your brexiteer mate stated i was miserable i merely stated a little piece of my circumstances,i never claimed to be rich and didnt state a figure,i merely used the term "ample" if it offended you i couldnt give a tooosss,work gets people on in life regrettably on here there are several people feeling sorry for themselves,yet i bet they have always found money for drink,cigs,gambling,drugs and sending to the working girl in thailand,losers is what i like to call them ????

You often tell us on here how you're rich enough to retire at a relatively young age. That's great for you - enjoy it. It does come across as bitter though, calling people losers etc. 

[fishtank]

A vote for the people is the only democratic option.

Can't see anyone disagreeing with that.

 

[malagateddy]

Maybe he doesn't know how to go forth and multiply

You often tell us on here how you're rich enough to retire at a relatively young age. That's great for you - enjoy it. It does come across as bitter though, calling people losers etc. 

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bomber]

46 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

You often tell us on here how you're rich enough to retire at a relatively young age. That's great for you - enjoy it. It does come across as bitter though, calling people losers etc. 

anyone who squanders all or most of their money on drink,drugs,gambling,cigs is a loser end of story regardless of whether they have lots of money or very little,nothing to do with being bitter one iota 

[elliss]

21 hours ago, bomber said:

is the wife "at work" while your watching the footy?

 

 Soi sex,   keep on topic , you have been warned  again. 555.

 

 Bttopic ,   UK is over and done with . RIP .

 

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by elliss