Leaving 800K in a Thai Bank Account - Pros/Cons/Value to you

[Mike Teavee]

Maybe this is TVFs take on Godwin's Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law) but on almost every thread about "Retirement" extensions the subject of leaving 800,000 THB in a Thai Bank account ends up with the (Pro) guys saying "I don't know why you just don't do it" & the (Con) guys saying "You must be an idiot, I can make more money doing..." (amazing how this sentence never seems to get finished...).

 

So what's your view?

 

FWIW Mine is that this 800,000 forms a part of my Low/No Risk investment pot (At 53 I have much more vested in this portion than I did at 50 & will continue to migrate monies that way) & I calculate the "Cost" to me as roughly 8,000 THB PA...

• 800,000 vested elsewhere at 5% (I'd pay somebody to show me how to get more than this at No/Low risk) = 40,000 
• Minus 20,000 you'd pay to an Agent to get you a visa
• Minus 12,000 you'd earn on the 800K if you left it in a Thai Bank Account

 

Or less than 700THB pm, 3-4 less coffees at Starbucks perhaps?

 

I know you can also go down the 65,000 THB PM route but this thread is about "Debating the Value" of leaving 800,000 in a Thai Bank Account Vs investing the monies elsewhere & using an Agent to extend.

 

 

[villagefarang]

I try to move money when the exchange rate is better.  Even considering I make nothing in the way of interest, I often end up several percentage points ahead on the exchange rate.  I like having a cushion of readily available cash so I don't have to worry about moving money around at the last minute.  I often have two or three years worth of reserves in country on top of the 800, requirement.

[bert bloggs]

I have no problem with putting 800000 baht in a Thai bank account for 3 months  then if i wish spending it , i do object to leaving it there and not being able to spend it if  I WISH TO.

[ballpoint]

If you can afford it, then just leave the 800,000 there.  It's the simplest option by far.  

[NCC1701A]

no worries with money in the bank.

 

here, there and everywhere.

 

i have been meaning to bring in another million baht and open another account at a different bank but i am so lazy i have not done it yet. 

[baansgr]

50 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

I have no problem with putting 800000 baht in a Thai bank account for 3 months  then if i wish spending it , i do object to leaving it there and not being able to spend it if  I WISH TO.

I think this is how most feel, that money is supposed to be for living costs, its now no more than a visa bond. I get over 7% in dividend payments in UK, thats a lot to loose over a one year period if its tied up here.

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

Mine is that this 800,000 forms a part of my Low/No Risk investment pot (At 53 I have much more vested in this portion than I did at 50 & will continue to migrate monies that way)

Same.

 

I am at about 50/50 for investments/savings and I expect to keep it that way forever now.

 

27 minutes ago, baansgr said:

I get over 7% in dividend payments in UK, thats a lot to loose over a one year period if its tied up here.

Not easy to get 7% on a sustainable basis without putting capital at risk. I would be more inclined to compare with the average FTSE100 return which is nearer to 4%. Then compare that with the 2.5% I get for my retirement deposit here and the difference is much smaller.

 

But the main issue for me is that the 800kB deposit is the only easy and practical way that I can get a retirement visa here. I have no regular retirement income and also I really dont want to fart around with costly embassy declarations or documented monthly transfers etc. Deposit the 800kB and forget about it seems simplest to me.

[sfokevin]

Right now I'm in the camp of keeping my money in my home country (Relatively safe at 5-6%) as I don't need to pay an agent 20K to process extension so I calculate my opportunity cost at ~30K... I can easily show 65K/Month of foreign transfers in thru BK Bank Statements... That being said I will watch how this next 10 months (until my renewal) to see how people using the new bank transfer income method fare... They may all be considered suspect by immigration or be considered a bother to process and be singled out for scrutiny and high failure rate - I do not want that grief...

 

If so I will put 800K here and be done with in and just go play golf...

Albeit at the cheaper military course... 

[Mike Teavee]

57 minutes ago, baansgr said:

I think this is how most feel, that money is supposed to be for living costs, its now no more than a visa bond. I get over 7% in dividend payments in UK, thats a lot to loose over a one year period if its tied up here.

Would love to know which assets you're in that get you over 7% at a risk level you're comfortable with 

 

I'm into LLY which I bought at an average strike price of around 33p so is currently giving me a yield on my initial investment of around 10%, but in reality the yield on current net value is less than 5% - How are you measuring yours?

 

[OJAS]

A not insignificant con with the 800k method as far as I am concerned is with banking security. OK, it is possible to take precautions against fraudulent ATM withdrawals which can negatively affect compliance with seasoning requirements for a retirement extension, through depositing the 800k in an account which doesn’t have a card linked to it. However it seems to me that there are no preventative measures which can possibly be taken by account holders to guard against the actions of dishonest bank employees, as per the following incident reported by the Nation last October:-

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30357034

 

It is all very well that the 3 victims in question got their missing money back. But there were almost certainly timing issues involved with this – meaning that, had these victims been retirees, they might well have still fallen foul of the seasoning requirements for their next retirement extensions (and, theoretically, also existing extensions under the new 400k rule), through absolutely no fault of their own.

[WalkingOrders]

If you have the income you would never put 800k into an account. If you don't have the income then you do. Or you dont stay in Thailand. The End.

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, WalkingOrders said:

If you have the income you would never put 800k into an account. If you don't have the income then you do. Or you dont stay in Thailand. The End.

Disagree... my income is > 400,000 THB per month (I'm still working in Singapore) but I only move money when I think the FX rate is good (Last time I moved any was in Nov/Dec)

 

I would have no problem if they said I needed to move an average of 65,000 THB over the year but I'm not going to transfer it every month (& there was a report that it needed to happen at the same time within a couple of days each month) 

[Pilotman]

I'm not really that bothered where this money is, in the UK bank or in a bank here. Interest rates are so low and the returns so low, that it is fairly immaterial to me where it sits. If it makes my life easier (which of course is the use and value of any money), then it can sit there and do its job of making extensions slightly less of a pain.  

[sfokevin]

My guess is that going forward immigration will look dimly upon most monthly income transfer methods that are not standard government/social security backed up by proof “pension”...

 

As others have said the 800k in the bank ends a lot of immigration uncertainty... I also wouldn’t put it past a Big Joke 2 mandating that the 800k be increased... Having the 800k in place now might put you in a grandfathered position... 

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

If you have the income you would never put 800k into an account. If you don't have the income then you do. Or you dont stay in Thailand. The End.

 

There is a little bit more to it given all the pitfalls and uncertainties still surrounding the income method.

 

I am using the 800k method now via a 2 year FD. Hope to switch to the income method by the time the FD matures if all the "kinks" have been ironed out. At which point I will use the 800K to buy a new(er) car and replace my air conditioners, and anything left over probably just keep here in savings.

 

The Pros and Cons are simple.

 

Pro: surest way to ensure getting an extension. No pitfalls or uncertainties and does nto need advance preparation beyond the 2-3 month seasoning which, if you were already using the old 800k method, you would have been doing anyway. (2 months per the wording of the police order but 3 according to some IOs. So call it 3 to be safe).

 

Cons: ties up money at low rate of return.  Money will not be quickly available on your death, and cannot be used for anything while you are alive without forfeiting next extension.

[peter14]

I have 2 million THB on ABA account in Cambodia. 6.75%  that 130000 thb per year..... thai bank LOL 

[Tropposurfer]

4 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

If you have the income you would never put 800k into an account. If you don't have the income then you do. Or you dont stay in Thailand. The End.

Not so!

I can meet either and or both requirements.

800k is a simpler process when extending that’s the main benefit I see.

 

[JimmyJ]

On 4/12/2019 at 8:21 PM, KittenKong said:

Same.

 

I am at about 50/50 for investments/savings and I expect to keep it that way forever now.

 

Not easy to get 7% on a sustainable basis without putting capital at risk. I would be more inclined to compare with the average FTSE100 return which is nearer to 4%. Then compare that with the 2.5% I get for my retirement deposit here and the difference is much smaller.

 

But the main issue for me is that the 800kB deposit is the only easy and practical way that I can get a retirement visa here. I have no regular retirement income and also I really dont want to fart around with costly embassy declarations or documented monthly transfers etc. Deposit the 800kB and forget about it seems simplest to me.

 

I feel the same way.

 

Figuring one loses 1.5% on the 800k THB means losing $378.50 USD/year.

So (at least for now) I am looking at that as part of the annual cost of living in Thailand.

 

$378.50 USD is a lot of foot massages.

Of course I'd prefer if the cost was zero.

But it seems the option with the least stress and hassle.

[JimmyJ]

On 4/12/2019 at 8:21 PM, KittenKong said:

Then compare that with the 2.5% I get for my retirement deposit here and the difference is much smaller.

 

 

Is the 2.5% via a Fixed Deposit 2 year account?

Which bank are you using?

 

For a normal (withdraw at any time with no penalty) non-fixed deposit Savings and/or Checking account in the US, 2.50% is the best price offered currently.

And that's only available at a few banks.

[Lacessit]

As other posters have said, it's the simplicity of the 800K compared to the complications of the income system which appeals to many.

What offends me is the screwed up logic. The 800K under the new police orders can only be spent down to 400K within a 6 month time frame, then has to be topped back up.

In contrast, someone bringing in 65K every month can spend it or save it as they please. Those people are far more likely to be sailing close to the wind than the 800K depositors, although some presumably do it because they object to being told what to do with their money.

[shady86]

800k are peanuts considering the cost of living nowdays. 

[Pib]

Disregarding whether each of the immigration methods to prove adequate income (i.e., large deposit vs monthly income) is equally fair (and they are not), no one needs to use the Bt800K deposit method unless "they want too and of course can afford too."   

 

Are there negatives to using the large deposit method or monthly income method?  Sure there are.  And to some people certain negatives rub a person the wrong way more so than in comparison to another person.

 

A lot of people have talked how they can earn more with their Bt800K setting in a home country financial bank or investment account....no argument from me on that.   But if not using the Bt800K in a Thai bank method then I'm going to need to use the monthly income or combo method with both of those methods requiring the transfer of funds to Thailand "each and every month--and don't miss even one month--along with getting acceptable international transfer coding....acceptable to "your" immigration office."  The monthly transfer glitches, both technical and human induced, does not exactly offer peace of mind as compared to Bt800K already setting in your Thai bank account.  I may want to switch to the combo method once more clarity comes to this method....with clarity also regarding the transfer coding and how nick-picky immigration offices may be with what coding is acceptable.

 

Personally, I have used and will continue to use the Bt800K method even under its revised rule simply because I do not need to bring in Bt65K per month because I don't need Bt65K month to have a good standard of living and I use my US no foreign transaction fee credit cards to pay the majority of my day-to-day living expenses.  Then I pay off in-full those cards each month from my US bank accounts.  Use of these US credit cards greatly lowers the amount of money I need to bring into Thailand periodically to top-up the Thai bank accounts.

 

While I'm losing some interest by keeping Bt800K in a Thai bank compared to a US bank/investment, it's not a large loss.  I consider it like an "expat tax" where being an expat you end-up spending more (or not gaining as much) for certain things.  I don't like any tax but realize they exist.  However, hopefully that is offset by other expat costs that are less in Thailand than your home country....and lord knows many retire to Thailand due to the lower cost of living.

 

[Maestro]

3 hours ago, peter14 said:

I have 2 million THB on ABA account in Cambodia. 6.75%  that 130000 thb per year..... thai bank LOL 

1. What is an ABA account?

 

2. At what bank in Cambodia do you have your ABA account?

 

3. Is the account really in Thai Baht (THB), ie a foreign currency account?

 

4. Are you living in Thailand on one-year retirement extensions?

[Date Masamune]

Manyof the don’t trust Thai banks crowd crisply have PLENTY of funds but are very very stingy. Dress in rags, drink self bought beer at mall food courts, cheap food only, mostly cooked on a hot plate. “Don’t like air-conditioning” Perhaps they grew up poor and have a mental problem?

[MeePeeMai]

I don't like the fact that the 800k cannot be in a joint account (with my Thai wife) and that the Thai banks do not allow the option of a "designated Beneficiary". 

 

When I pass on, my wife cannot simply go to the bank and withdraw or transfer the funds (since they would become hers once I die and may be needed right away for funeral fees etc.).

 

That is my biggest complaint about the 800k in the bank system as it stands now.  It really is not optimal by any means.

[Lancashirelad]

It is ridiculous that the 800k cannot be used. (except 50% for a few months). The whole original point of it was to show that you had enough money to live in Thailand for the next year.

 

@MeePeeMai Many farangs living in Thailand are elderly retirees and it is a fact that many die in Thailand. I'm sure the authorities will have thought about this when setting this rule. For the many who have not made a will in Thailand, where does that 800k go?

[MeePeeMai]

13 minutes ago, Lancashirelad said:

 

@MeePeeMai Many farangs living in Thailand are elderly retirees and it is a fact that many die in Thailand. I'm sure the authorities will have thought about this when setting this rule. For the many who have not made a will in Thailand, where does that 800k go?

 

I don't know for sure (would like to though) but I believe that even with a will, there is a delay in your spouse gaining access to the funds in your account and this could easily be avoided by allowing us to leave our money in either a joint account or designate an account beneficiary.

 

A will is a must here and I plan on leaving my wife my P.I.N and ATM card with both written (and recorded video) instructions to take the money out of my account as soon as I die.  Hopefully she will be protected from prosecution that way for removal of my funds immediately after my death.  I don't know whether or not this is acceptable but I am hoping (for her sake) it will work.

[Date Masamune]

It is ridiculous that the 800k cannot be used. (except 50% for a few months). The whole original point of it was to show that you had enough money to live in Thailand for the next year.
 
[mention=306267]MeePeeMai[/mention] Many farangs living in Thailand are elderly retirees and it is a fact that many die in Thailand. I'm sure the authorities will have thought about this when setting this rule. For the many who have not made a will in Thailand, where does that 800k go?

Are you serious? File a will at the Amphoe. Every country has probate and the “authorities” or bank staff can’t just go around filching dead foreigners bank deposits!

[malt25]

12 hours ago, Lancashirelad said:

It is ridiculous that the 800k cannot be used. (except 50% for a few months). The whole original point of it was to show that you had enough money to live in Thailand for the next year.

 

@MeePeeMai Many farangs living in Thailand are elderly retirees and it is a fact that many die in Thailand. I'm sure the authorities will have thought about this when setting this rule. For the many who have not made a will in Thailand, where does that 800k go?

Extremely expensive watches... oops, consolidated revenue.

[crazykopite]

I have an American friend who’s Thai wife was killed in a car accident I took him to the bank to inform them we had all the usual requirements death certificate all he wanted to do was close any accounts she had one account was joint so we had no problem  the other was in her name had 1,000 baht in it and you wouldn’t believe the complications we came across even a death certificate wasn’t good enough they wanted him to go to lawyers get letters of confirmation in the end we decided for the amount he would have to pay wasn’t worth the cost, time or effort so he left the account as it was. Can you imagine the difficulty due to the law that your 800k cannot be in a joint account it has to be in the depositors name only this could cause major issues if that person were to die the bank could drag its backside for years for that money to be released .