Do you believe in God and why

[JensenZ]

2 hours ago, n00dle said:

what astonishes me is how much your conviction reads like satire.

 

Presumably if the universe didn't just happen, certainly the creator didnt just happen either. 

pray remind how the "creator" came about, i cannot currently recall.

One could say that a "presence" that can create the universe is beyond the human mind to comprehend. How could you possibly explain such power within the bounds of our extremely limited knowledge of the physical world.  

[JensenZ]

2 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Like the sound of one hand clapping.

All non-essentials stripped and only the divine spark of consciousness remaining, and depending on how you lived your life that being a bright shining light or a faint tealight.

How do you know this?

[Peter Denis]

2 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

How do you know this?

Intuition and divine inspiration...

[fredwiggy]

13 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

What will the "you" be after you die?

You

[JensenZ]

 

5 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Intuition and divine inspiration...

Sorry, that doesn't work for me. What is your religion?

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

 

Sorry, that doesn't work for me. What is your religion?

Organized religion is not for me, although all of them contain grains of truth.

[JensenZ]

3 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Organized religion is not for me, although all of them contain grains of truth.

I'm trying to figure out how you gained your intuition and divine inspiration? Surely it was assisted by some affiliation with some religion in your past. Expecting a life after death of some type could be wishful thinking as the thought of not existing at all after death is hard for many people to except.

[Skeptic7]

4 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

There is a God. Again, the universe didn't and couldn't just "happen", so it had a creator. God. When you die, you will meet him.

Prove it.

[Peter Denis]

19 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

I'm trying to figure out how you gained your intuition and divine inspiration? Surely it was assisted by some affiliation with some religion in your past. Expecting a life after death of some type could be wishful thinking as the thought of not existing at all after death is hard for many people to except.

Good question and deserves a more elaborate answer,

Will come back on this one tomorrow...

[Skeptic7]

2 hours ago, n00dle said:

While arguing semantics is all well and good there are many out there without the basic literacy to understand these distinctions who bandy the terms about.

 

I have met agnostics who claim to be atheists and atheists who are actually agnostics because they fail to understand the terminology.

 

I have also met agnostics who claim to be deists and agnostics who actually were deists.

 

Its a mixed up muddled up shook up world.

Technically, I'm an "agnostic atheist" though I usually leave the first word off. Unless, of course, someone is demanding specifics. 

[Skeptic7]

31 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Organized religion is not for me, although all of them contain grains of truth.

And bushels of BS.  

[n00dle]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

Intuition and divine inspiration...

Dmt trip you mean.

[n00dle]

27 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Technically, I'm an "agnostic atheist" though I usually leave the first word off. Unless, of course, someone is demanding specifics. 

See, I personally would leave the atheist out, as atheism would indicate a denial of god, im just assuming non existence while waiting for proof.

 

Alas those who seem most certain of that proof are generally unbearable in conviction they are unable to support 

[Walker88]

3 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Was always there. You make fun of this but sadly you'll be woken up to reality when it's yolur time. I hope you change your thinking before thenn, which could be any day.

Since you're an expert on this god fella, pray tell what the heck was it doing from the beginning of time until about 13.8 billion years ago? Must have been god awful lonely, so it 'created' a few trillion galaxies, each with a trillion stars, and in one of a trillion nondescript galaxies, around one of a trillion stars in that galaxy, set up a planet that would eventually lead to a pack of sentient beings, just to praise and thank the god all the time? Is that your concept of 'faith' and existence? Seems a convoluted way to get a compliment.

 

Your god must be terribly insecure in that, despite being supposedly omnipotent, it needed to create some woefully inferior beings to tell it how great it was. One would think such an entity as a 'god of all things and all time' would be a lot less needy than a pathological Narcissist. One would think it would be more confident and not need to have its supposed greatness reinforced. I mean, I don't need ants or paramecium to applaud me, and surely an omnipotent god would be farther above me than I am above a paramecium. If it needs my praise or thanks, it's pretty weak.

 

That difficult to fathom tale of 'creation' really does seem to better fit the old saw "man created god in his image". The numerous character flaws in everybody's gods backs up that line: a woefully insecure being that needs constant adoration or it gets miffed and punishes the non-worshipper for all eternity. That's pretty vindictive besides being needy. No thanks.

 

I think I'm going ignore all the various god stories and stick with the latest scientific evidence that indicates Universe coming into being from nothing is well within the laws of physics as particle physicists have discovered in the last few years. Because you do not understand the physics doesn't make it wrong, just as those who insisted the Earth must be flat, otherwise we'd fall off, could not conceptualize the force of gravity. Well, the force of gravity still is not well understood at all, but gravity's effect is well understood and can be measured and predicted with incredible accuracy. It's very real. Why just last week scientists and engineers took that thing-they-can measure-but-not-explain and fired a spacecraft into orbit and had it dock with an object orbiting 226 miles above the planet.

 

Science continually proves itself, while nobody's god has ever proven anything ever. Science even predicts things---e.g., Higgs boson---that are subsequently discovered, but not one god or prophet ever predicted anything. Any faith where it's god, prophet or savior had done something like chisel Planck's Constant into a stone slab, or drawn a map of Australia, would have gone a long way toward proving itself divine rather than just being a fraudster. None did.  Take Occam's Razor to faith and religion, and all that seems left are fraudsters or lunatics.

[Sunmaster]

On 6/8/2020 at 2:22 PM, Tagged said:

The big Q is

 

How can you state there is no god, or how can you state there is a god? 
 

Nobody walking on this earth of flesh and blood do know, but they believe one or the other! Thats a fact! ????

That's your opinion, not a fact.

[Skeptic7]

32 minutes ago, n00dle said:

See, I personally would leave the atheist out, as atheism would indicate a denial of god, im just assuming non existence while waiting for proof.

 

Alas those who seem most certain of that proof are generally unbearable in conviction they are unable to support 

Theists (or other believers) make god claims and therefore bear the burden of proof. If someone just believes on "faith" then not much to argue with them about. However...a good question is WHY anyone would believe anything based on faith? Do they function in any other aspect of their lives based on such an unreliable method? Do they buy any item, invest money, get into and/or stay in relationships, lend money, or believe a stranger (or even a relative or friend) or a book or movie or TV show based on faith???

But i digress. Back to the topic...

 

Gnosticism deals with knowledge, while atheism deals with belief...or lack thereof.

Agnostics don't claim, nor possess, knowledge of a god(s) existing. In an honest sense, we're ALL agnostic. 

Theism has to do with a belief in a god(s), while a-theism (without theism) is the lack of such belief.

Atheists lack belief in such claims...usually due to the lack of evidence.  

 

In my case...I'm agnostic because I don't claim to KNOW and I'm atheist because there's no good reason or evidence to believe. That = "agnostic atheist". Not believing does not imply that I'm positively claiming that god(s) do not exist. Merely that there is insufficient evidence to buy into such a notion. I do not know what evidence would convince me...BUT if there is a god that considers it important enough to convince me, then it should surely know that answer and be capable of doing so. 

 

Really there shouldn't even be a need for the word "atheist". If someone claims to believe in Fairies or Leprechauns or Unicorns or Bigfoot...does that make those whom don't believe..."afairyist" or "aleprechaunist" or "aunicornist" or "abigfootist"? Same thing with a god claim. Just because more people tend to believe in a "god" rather than Bigfoot doesn't make them any more correct. No need for the "a"-word in all these other examples. Some just don't believe claims without good reason. The word for this, in this topic, is the undeservedly highly stigmatized word "Atheist". Of which I'm quite fond, truth be told. 

 

 

[Tagged]

18 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

That's your opinion, not a fact.

Prove me wrong ????
 

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Tagged

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, Tagged said:

Prov me wrong ????

Try to prove yourself wrong. I can't do the work for you.

 

Many people have melted with the God consciousness in the past, many do today.

They have all pointed in the same direction. What they have achieved is achievable by each one of us. Each one of us can take the steps towards that consciousness...the tools are there at our disposal. 

It is my own responsibility to walk the path to liberation, and its nobody else's responsibility what happens on your path but your own.

What you do with the time on your hands is up to you, no judgement...but don't turn an opinion into a fact for lack of knowledge. 

[n00dle]

33 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Theists (or other believers) make god claims and therefore bear the burden of proof. If someone just believes on "faith" then not much to argue with them about. However...a good question is WHY anyone would believe anything based on faith? Do they function in any other aspect of their lives based on such an unreliable method? Do they buy any item, invest money, get into and/or stay in relationships, lend money, or believe a stranger (or even a relative or friend) or a book or movie or TV show based on faith???

But i digress. Back to the topic...

 

Gnosticism deals with knowledge, while atheism deals with belief...or lack thereof.

Agnostics don't claim, nor possess, knowledge of a god(s) existing. In an honest sense, we're ALL agnostic. 

Theism has to do with a belief in a god(s), while a-theism (without theism) is the lack of such belief.

Atheists lack belief in such claims...usually due to the lack of evidence.  

 

In my case...I'm agnostic because I don't claim to KNOW and I'm atheist because there's no good reason or evidence to believe. That = "agnostic atheist". Not believing does not imply that I'm positively claiming that god(s) do not exist. Merely that there is insufficient evidence to buy into such a notion. I do not know what evidence would convince me...BUT if there is a god that considers it important enough to convince me, then it should surely know that answer and be capable of doing so. 

 

Really there shouldn't even be a need for the word "atheist". If someone claims to believe in Fairies or Leprechauns or Unicorns or Bigfoot...does that make those whom don't believe..."afairyist" or "aleprechaunist" or "aunicornist" or "abigfootist"? Same thing with a god claim. Just because more people tend to believe in a "god" rather than Bigfoot doesn't make them any more correct. No need for the "a"-word in all these other examples. Some just don't believe claims without good reason. The word for this, in this topic, is the undeservedly highly stigmatized word "Atheist". Of which I'm quite fond, truth be told. 

 

 

I personally dont understand how or why somone would claim atheism, I prefer to sit on the gnostic fence.

 

Most avowed atheist I have spoke with were unaware agnosticism was even an option and have adopted the term, though a staunch few have understood the distinction and remain unmoved.

 

Faith is a bizzare thing in my opinion, many could replace it with need or hope.

[StreetCowboy]

Does it matter whether God exists?  How will things be different if He exists?
What difference does it make to me?

Does it matter which God or gods exist? The many Hindu gods, or the one God of the monotheistic religions? Is God Jewish, Christian, Muslim - what if God is a Catholic!?

[Sunmaster]

10 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Does it matter whether God exists?  How will things be different if He exists?
What difference does it make to me?

Does it matter which God or gods exist? The many Hindu gods, or the one God of the monotheistic religions? Is God Jewish, Christian, Muslim - what if God is a Catholic!?

Would it bother you to be a leaf in the wind, at the mercy of that greater force to take you wherever it happens to blow?

Or would you rather prefer to take your life in your own hands and decide which way to go?

 

It is not the belief in one God or the other that will make a difference in your life...it's what you DO with that belief that matters. 

 

I prefer not to sit on my ass waiting for someone to tell me what is what. I sit on my ass in meditation to take the rudder of my own life. 

[JensenZ]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

Since you're an expert on this god fella, pray tell what the heck was it doing from the beginning of time until about 13.8 billion years ago? Must have been god awful lonely, so it 'created' a few trillion galaxies, each with a trillion stars, and in one of a trillion nondescript galaxies, around one of a trillion stars in that galaxy, set up a planet that would eventually lead to a pack of sentient beings, just to praise and thank the god all the time? Is that your concept of 'faith' and existence? Seems a convoluted way to get a compliment.

What God was doing before he created heaven (our universe) and Earth is covered in the Bible, but why must God be doing something? That's a human construct in our physical realm. We must do things because time is passing and we are aging. The reason why he created Earth is also covered. I'm not going to go into it here, but you can look it up if you're interested.

 

This leads me to the conclusion that spirit beings (God, Satan, Angels) live in a different dimension from our physical world and universe. The concept of time doesn't exist in a dimension without decay. Time is ultimately a measure of decay. It's our physical world which decays, not the realm of spirit beings which is timeless. Earth was created with a time limit. Our universe is too large to grasp even at the speed of light and concept of infinity confounds the mind. The concept of eternal existence is impossible to grasp because we are bound to a universe that measures time. To us everything has a beginning and an end.

 

 

[sirineou]

24 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

What God was doing before he created heaven (our universe) and Earth is covered in the Bible, but why must God be doing something? That's a human construct in our physical realm. We must do things because time is passing and we are aging. The reason why he created Earth is also covered. I'm not going to go into it here, but you can look it up if you're interested.

 

This leads me to the conclusion that spirit beings (God, Satan, Angels) live in a different dimension from our physical world and universe. The concept of time doesn't exist in a dimension without decay. Time is ultimately a measure of decay. It's our physical world which decays, not the realm of spirit beings which is timeless. Earth was created with a time limit. Our universe is too large to grasp even at the speed of light and concept of infinity confounds the mind. The concept of eternal existence is impossible to grasp because we are bound to a universe that measures time. To us everything has a beginning and an end.

 

 

Didn't god create man in his own image?

[JensenZ]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Didn't god create man in his own image?

I know the verse, but don't understand what is meant by it.

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, JensenZ said:

I know the verse, but don't understand what is meant by it.

Well if man is create in gods image , why does god need legs if not to walk?

[Elad]

2 hours ago, JensenZ said:

The concept of time doesn't exist in a dimension without decay.

Time seems to be woven into dimensions, I don't think one could exist without the other.

[JensenZ]

1 hour ago, Elad said:

Time seems to be woven into dimensions, I don't think one could exist without the other.

There lies the problem. We cannot comprehend an existence without time.

[JensenZ]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

Well if man is create in gods image , why does god need legs if not to walk?

So you believe God has legs and he's walking around somewhere? He needs legs to get around. Do you think he can fly too, like his angels?

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, JensenZ said:

So you believe God has legs and he's walking around somewhere? He needs legs to get around. Do you think he can fly too, like his angels?

No i don't. To understand a post you need to take it with in the context of a conversation. 

If you follow the exchange a couple of post back,( #8182 ) "What God was doing before he created heaven (our universe) and Earth is covered in the Bible, but why must God be doing something? That's a human construct in our physical realm. We must do things because time is passing and we are aging. The reason why he created Earth is also covered.   " and a claim was made that " "This leads me to the conclusion that spirit beings (God, Satan, Angels) live in a different dimension from our physical world and universe. The concept of time doesn't exist in a dimension without decay. Time is ultimately a measure of decay. "

To which I replied :

"Didn't god create man in his own image? " Then it was replied back :

"I know the verse, but don't understand what is meant by it. " to which i replied:

"Well if man is create in gods image , why does god need legs if not to walk? "

The answer of course is ; because he exists in a plane where time exists otherwise he would not have legs, Arms, or a beard that requires time to grow.

 

 

[luckyluke]

On 5/26/2020 at 11:17 AM, Sunmaster said:

There is truth out there that has nothing to do with "imagination". It is out there for anyone to test and prove to the best of his abilities, and stand the scrutiny not of science (who does not possess the tools to investigate it), but of your own personal judgement.
Now, if one decides beforehand that he has no intention of exploring that source of information due to his preconceptions and bias, then the shortcoming is only on his part and not of the information source itself.

Which "Truth" is the "Real Truth".?

 

As mentioned before, I had an experience,  where I found out there is nothing, no creator, no God. 

 

Now I know there are others who had a different experience (Called Revelation) in which they found a God/Creator or... 

 

Is my experience the real "Truth"?

 

Is it theirs? 

 

 

 

I can find happiness and serenety in my way, others find it in another way. 

 

No path is better/worse,

as we don't know how, and what, someone else is feeling, using his proper way.