Do you believe in God and why

[Sunmaster]

  On 11/10/2019 at 9:54 AM, sirineou said:

I am not defensive, I just ridicule the "you have not looked long enough" argument.

it is a red herring argument to distract from the fact that you have nothing. so you introduce a subjective term. 

 True story.. It is like when my Mom was smoking and she told me she was going to quit. I told her "I will believe it when I see it" to which she replied " I bet you I will never smoke again"

I said "Mom I will take that bet and I will give you 100 to 1 odds"

Do you know why I took that bet and at such unfavorable odds?  Understanding this will go a long way towards understanding the "Not long enough" argument

As to the "benefit" argument, Come on, realy?  

  

 

 

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Oh my oh my

 

You are not ridiculing anything but yourself with this comment.
You deny the existence of Spirit because after you tried for a while to look behind the veil, all you got was...well, nothing. 
Spirit is knowable in many ways, but if you want irrefutable proof, there's nothing better than subjective  experience. How do you get that? By sitting down, shutting your eyes and the constant chatter in your mind. It's bloody hard, I get it. It takes time and years of practice.
If it were as easy as you seem to expect, everyone would be enlightened, wouldn't they?

And you don't know the benefits of meditation? Come on, really? Have you been living under a rock??

Here, this will get you started:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/12-benefits-of-meditation#section4

[jastheace]

  On 11/10/2019 at 9:54 AM, sirineou said:

 

 True story.. It is like when my Mom was smoking and she told me she was going to quit. I told her "I will believe it when I see it" to which she replied " I bet you I will never smoke again"

I said "Mom I will take that bet and I will give you 100 to 1 odds"

Do you know why I took that bet and at such unfavorable odds?  Understanding this will go a long way towards understanding the "Not long enough" argument.

  

 

 

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careful that isn't / wasn't written in a will , you may have a few beneficiaries come knocking at your door....

[Skeptic7]

  On 11/10/2019 at 9:15 AM, Sunmaster said:

Well, what did you do, how long have you tried and how serious were you about it?
You can't expect to get any kind of breakthrough by meditating 10 minutes a week.

The fact that none came to you only means that you didn't pursue it long enough. It's like giving up playing chess because after 2 lessons you still can't win a game. ????

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classic No True Scotsman Fallacy! ????

[jastheace]

  On 11/10/2019 at 10:03 AM, Sunmaster said:

 

And you don't know the benefits of meditation? Come on, really? Have you been living under a rock??

Here, this will get you started:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/12-benefits-of-meditation#section4

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and there are plenty of other sites selling 'snake oil'. no need to post links, look at some advertorials on sides / middles / tops / bottoms / of some other websites to see them. 

I don't think I am allowed to quote them as being on TVF, so I won't.

'clickbait'

[Skeptic7]

  On 11/10/2019 at 9:28 AM, mauGR1 said:

Why the contemptuos attitude ? @Sunmaster is kindly trying to explain something to you.

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classic support of the No True Scotsman fallacy by not even recognizing it! ????

[Sunmaster]

  On 11/10/2019 at 10:14 AM, jastheace said:

and there are plenty of other sites selling 'snake oil'. no need to post links, look at some advertorials on sides / middles / tops / bottoms / of some other websites to see them. 

I don't think I am allowed to quote them as being on TVF, so I won't.

'clickbait'

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So meditation is "snake oil"? Even when science (yes, science) supports the benefit claims?
Where is the 'face palm' emoji when you need one?

[Sunmaster]

  On 11/10/2019 at 10:15 AM, Skeptic7 said:

classic support of the No True Scotsman fallacy by not even recognizing it! ????

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I've asked you a question further up....got an answer?

 

[sirineou]

  On 11/10/2019 at 10:06 AM, jastheace said:

careful that isn't / wasn't written in a will , you may have a few beneficiaries come knocking at your door....

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Fortunately for me (as far as the bet is concern.  i loved my mom and still miss her, more so as I get older and realise what a little <deleted> I was then, and hope I am not now, though evidence might suggest otherwise ) and unfortunately for her , and me, It was a bet she never won, and one I wish I had lost. 

[Skeptic7]

  On 11/10/2019 at 10:18 AM, Sunmaster said:

So meditation is "snake oil"? Even when science (yes, science) supports the benefit claims?
Where is the 'face palm' emoji when you need one?

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Have been pondering that one myself for half a year for you (Larry) and TBL (Curly) and Mau (Moe)! 

 

u 3 R 2 much! 

[Sunmaster]

  On 11/10/2019 at 10:37 AM, Skeptic7 said:

Have been pondering that one myself for half a year for you (Larry) and TBL (Curly) and Mau (Moe)! 

 

u 3 R 2 much! 

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Classic 'I have nothing of value to say here, so I'll just post some nonsense and hope to get away with it' fallacy 

[Hummin]

  On 11/10/2019 at 9:27 AM, CMNightRider said:

You should really think twice about what you said, and take time to read this passage from the Bible.  Matthew 10:33 - But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

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you prove my stand, and very glad you do. You believe in a myth, fairytale, and accept that as truth above anything else, which is dangerous, since it leads people to do horribel mistakes and crimes. 

[jastheace]

  On 11/10/2019 at 10:18 AM, Sunmaster said:

So meditation is "snake oil"? Even when science (yes, science) supports the benefit claims?
Where is the 'face palm' emoji when you need one?

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if I could find that emoji, I would have used it. does science support the existence of God ? like that ????

the internet is a great thing isn't it? someone believes there are aliens on mars, posts it as a fact on the internet, someone reads the post, therefore that reader MUST believe.

[mauGR1]

  On 11/10/2019 at 10:44 AM, Hummin said:

you prove my stand, and very glad you do. You believe in a myth, fairytale, and accept that as truth above anything else, which is dangerous, since it leads people to do horribel mistakes and crimes. 

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Sorry but that's not right.

There are lots of non-believers in western countries (50 % of the total ?) yet humans don't seem to get any better.

Try another one.

[Sunmaster]

I mean, disputing the existence of God is one thing and I can fully understand that it's not for everybody.
But denying the benefits of meditation, if only the physical and emotional benefits, is just ridiculous. 
Meditation has been around for thousands of years. Do you think people would spend years doing it, if they didn't get any benefits??

Science has researched meditation for only a few decades, but even in this short period of time, has come to the conclusion that there are real, tangible benefits from meditation. Feel free to use google if you don't believe me.

 

[sirineou]

  On 11/10/2019 at 10:52 AM, mauGR1 said:

Sorry but that's not right.

There are lots of non-believers in western countries (50 % of the total ?) yet humans don't seem to get any better.

Try another one.

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But get worse at a slower rate!! Still another 50% to go. Wish as luck

[mauGR1]

  On 11/10/2019 at 10:55 AM, Sunmaster said:

I mean, disputing the existence of God is one thing and I can fully understand that it's not for everybody.
But denying the benefits of meditation, if only the physical and emotional benefits, is just ridiculous. 
Meditation has been around for thousands of years. Do you think people would spend years doing it, if they didn't get any benefits??

Science has researched meditation for only a few decades, but even in this short period of time, has come to the conclusion that there are real, tangible benefits from meditation. Feel free to use google if you don't believe me.

 

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Some people are busy drowning their troubles in the bottle, that's their nirvana.

I would not expect them to hear you.

[ravip]

  On 11/10/2019 at 10:55 AM, Sunmaster said:

I mean, disputing the existence of God is one thing and I can fully understand that it's not for everybody.
But denying the benefits of meditation, if only the physical and emotional benefits, is just ridiculous. 
Meditation has been around for thousands of years. Do you think people would spend years doing it, if they didn't get any benefits??

Science has researched meditation for only a few decades, but even in this short period of time, has come to the conclusion that there are real, tangible benefits from meditation. Feel free to use google if you don't believe me.

 

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Meditation per se, has, nothing to do with God.

I mean one can think of a good pair of something beautiful and meditate and reap benefits... ???? 

[mauGR1]

  On 11/10/2019 at 11:02 AM, ravip said:

Meditation per se, has, nothing to do with God.

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Methinks you have spoken for yourself.

[Sunmaster]

  On 11/10/2019 at 11:02 AM, ravip said:

Meditation per se, has, nothing to do with God.

I mean one can think of a good pair of something beautiful and meditate and reap benefits... ???? 

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I have a good friend, he's atheist and meditates every day and has been doing so for years.
He gets physical/mental benefits from it and is not interested in exploring the spiritual part that you can access with meditation. It's his choice, but for me it's like owning a Ferrari and only use the first 2 gears.

Meditation is a tool. What you do with this tool is up to you.

[canuckamuck]

Earnestly seeking for truth in humble sincerity will not fail to embiggen your soul

[ravip]

  On 11/10/2019 at 11:05 AM, mauGR1 said:

Methinks you have spoken for yourself.

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  On 11/10/2019 at 11:09 AM, Sunmaster said:

I have a good friend, he's atheist and meditates every day and has been doing so for years.
He gets physical/mental benefits from it and is not interested in exploring the spiritual part that you can access with meditation. It's his choice, but for me it's like owning a Ferrari and only use the first 2 gears.

Meditation is a tool. What you do with this tool is up to you.

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Yes, most times meditation involves religion, especially because it is something done frequently by some Buddhist monks and commonly taught by them too.

More

[mauGR1]

  On 11/10/2019 at 11:15 AM, ravip said:

 

Yes, most times meditation involves religion, especially because it is something done frequently by some Buddhist monks and commonly taught by them too.

More

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Confusing God, religion and spiritual practice, again

[Skeptic7]

  On 11/10/2019 at 10:19 AM, Sunmaster said:

I've asked you a question further up....got an answer?

 

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Classic divert and misdirect. Not playing your silly magical, mystical games. DON'T need them...nor the "spiritual" woo-doo. You obviously need something "else" to complete/satisfy your existence. I don't. Birds, bugs, bees, butterfiies...hammerhead flatworms and hummingbird moths...arachnids and arthopods + my cameras, GF red wine, great vegan food and beer is plenty enough for me.Not enough hours in a day.

 

So I choose Option 3...our natural world and all it's awesome evolved and (usually) other-than-human creatures! 

[Hummin]

  On 11/10/2019 at 10:52 AM, mauGR1 said:

Sorry but that's not right.

There are lots of non-believers in western countries (50 % of the total ?) yet humans don't seem to get any better.

Try another one.

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I refer to those who claim they know Jesus and god, and force their belief on to other people. Shame, guilt and so on there is no valid reasons for. Even when people are ashamed of what they are thinking, it have gone to far. To many crimes against the humanity in gods name to mention. 

[mauGR1]

  On 11/10/2019 at 11:24 AM, Skeptic7 said:

Classic divert and misdirect. Not playing your silly magical, mystical games. DON'T need them...nor the "spiritual" woo-doo. You obviously need something "else" to complete/satisfy your existence. I don't. Birds, bugs, bees, butterfiies...hammerhead flatworms and hummingbird moths...arachnids and arthopods + my cameras, GF red wine, great vegan food and beer is plenty enough for me.Not enough hours in a day.

 

So I choose Option 3...our natural world and all it's awesome evolved and (usually) other-than-human creatures! 

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If you were so satisfied, you would not be here boasting about you achievements, but, yeah whatever makes you happy

[mauGR1]

  On 11/10/2019 at 12:05 PM, Hummin said:

I refer to those who claim they know Jesus and god, and force their belief on to other people. Shame, guilt and so on there is no valid reasons for. Even when people are ashamed of what they are thinking, it have gone to far. To many crimes against the humanity in gods name to mention. 

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Nice rant, perhaps you should go to the Vatican and tell them.

[canuckamuck]

  On 11/10/2019 at 12:05 PM, Hummin said:

I refer to those who claim they know Jesus and god, and force their belief on to other people. Shame, guilt and so on there is no valid reasons for. Even when people are ashamed of what they are thinking, it have gone to far. To many crimes against the humanity in gods name to mention. 

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Really, people force their beliefs on you? Or perhaps someone shared a view with you that makes you feel uncomfortable.

[sirineou]

  On 11/10/2019 at 12:39 PM, canuckamuck said:

Really, people force their beliefs on you? Or perhaps someone shared a view with you that makes you feel uncomfortable.

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People forcing their religious beliefs on others is well documented.

[canuckamuck]

  On 11/10/2019 at 12:45 PM, sirineou said:

People forcing their religious beliefs on others is well documented.

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I was asking about that poster specifically. I think it is probably a very unusual situation to find yourself in. At least for adults.

 

 

 

[sirineou]

 

 

  On 11/10/2019 at 12:56 PM, canuckamuck said:

I was asking about that poster specifically. I think it is probably a very unusual situation to find yourself in. At least for adults.

 

 

 

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I followed the exchange thread backwards all the way to the initiating reply pictured below ,and  I don't think he was referring to himself personally. "do horrible mistakes and crimes " referring to forcing beliefs .

subsequently in the following reply he was forced to clarify  

"I refer to those who claim they know Jesus and god, and force their belief on to other people.  "

  Perhaps I missed it , and i don't think I did, but Nowhere did he claim that he was the direct recipient of such "horrible mistakes and crimes "  but I submit to you that we are all indirectly affected.