Do you believe in God and why

[Mike Teavee]

12 minutes ago, rumak said:

well,  i for one can not understand why people get upset when others post different viewpoints.   you at least see the humor.   you have my vote for POTY   555

I guess i should always start my posts with :  i'm sorry if i cause any offense 

oh well................  maybe wrong thread here for humor.   i'll slink away  (clap emojis from ?)

I voted Yinn ("Vote Hottie, not OAP"), but having seen NCC's Pussies I'm regretting my decision & then reading CannuckMuck's tales of JJ I'm now wishing I voted for him... 

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[canuckamuck]

34 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Why? it wasn't offensive... those "...ines" really did have my head spinning but I should have got Ursine

 

I can't quite remember the cryptic crossword clue but the question had something to do with fur coats & the answer included something to do with bears... But even easier that that we have Ursa Major (The "Great Bear")... 

 

Those other 3 were new to me, that's what I love about reading random threads on TVF, everyday I lean a new word (& I thought I had a pretty extensive vocabulary & can usually attribute some random fact to the etymology of the word to get some understanding of what it means, but every day somebody posts a blinder on here that I have to go Google & add it to the bank ???? )

 

I'm sorry if I caused any offence with my posts last night/ this morning, a few beerios too many at my mates (& mine) leaving Singapore party last night... Honestly didn't mean to offend with my posts... 

 

 

 

You will find it extremely difficult to offend me. And I have seen Life of Brian at least 4 times. Funny stuff, it just didn't seem a very effective reply at that stage of the conversation.

[Mike Teavee]

Just now, Sunmaster said:

 

So, what exactly is your viewpoint? I can't seem to find any...

 

 

My viewpoint (I'm sure I've said this before) is that there is something out there that we do not know & I don't believe that I'll ever know in my lifetime, but I don't subscribe to the single omnipresent being theory... so tend to "Live & Live", unless somebody tries to force their "Religion" down my throat (or via it attack the people that I love), then I tend to bark back... 

 

I'm fascinated by everything I don't understand, from your spiritualism through to AsianatHearts explanation of DNA & how cross-species mutations aren't possible. 

 

Again, I don't mean to offend (Unless somebody attacks me) I just ask questions (possibly a little brashly, I need to remember we're not having a chat in the pub & typed words don't convey the subtilties of the spoken word) to further my knowledge (I'm going to change my forum name to Curious George :)) 

 

[Sunmaster]

18 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

My viewpoint (I'm sure I've said this before) is that there is something out there that we do not know & I don't believe that I'll ever know in my lifetime, but I don't subscribe to the single omnipresent being theory... so tend to "Live & Live", unless somebody tries to force their "Religion" down my throat (or via it attack the people that I love), then I tend to bark back... 

 

I'm fascinated by everything I don't understand, from your spiritualism through to AsianatHearts explanation of DNA & how cross-species mutations aren't possible. 

 

Again, I don't mean to offend (Unless somebody attacks me) I just ask questions (possibly a little brashly, I need to remember we're not having a chat in the pub & typed words don't convey the subtilties of the spoken word) to further my knowledge (I'm going to change my forum name to Curious George :)) 

 

My post was directed at rumak. I quoted your post by mistake and then removed it. Sorry for the confusion. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Sunmaster

[Mike Teavee]

Just now, Sunmaster said:

My post was directed to rumsak. I quoted your post by mistake and then removed it.

No problem... Gave me the opportunity to reflect on some of my posts & to remind myself that we're not "Having a friendly bit of banter over a few pints in the pub" but are strangers, "Chatting" over a much less informal medium, so I should temper some of the things I say, especially on a subject such as this where I risk (& possibly could have already) cause upset/offence to people, certainly not my intent. 

 

 

As an aside (Following on from the POTY comments) I can't believe we're only 8 days away from the end of 2019... Where has this year gone & is it just me or do the years seem to fly by much quicker nowadays!!! 

 

 

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to all ???? 

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

It would be as easy to believe that the waves of the sea had beat upon the sand and shaped it into a sand castle (as opposed to a flattened beach) as to believe that the DNA of even the simplest organism had come about due to random chance.

During my time in Antarctica I trekked through the Dry Valleys. On one trek I saw a flat round table of rock surrounded by smaller seat sized round flat topped rocks. The whole was contained within a sandy clearing with no other rocks of significant size.

I called it a "fairy dining table".

Sooooo, either it was made by someone or something thousands or more years ago ( there is no recorded history of human OCCUPATION of the dry valleys before the mid 20th century and it certainly wasn't made by humans last century ) or it is a natural formation of rocks that appears to have been put in place for a purpose; which is the equivalent of your sand castle made by waves.

I believe it was random chance, and not actual fairies.

 

2 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

The evolution of humans from an amoeba is so far out of the realm of possibility that it beggars belief in even the sanity of the ones who propose it.

Call me mad then.

There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Shakespeare

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

I do believe they'd eventually come up with my code, and that's probably not a good thing! - And can well remember wasting nearly 1 day on a full stop (Period) in my COBOL 1 days on the IBM Mainframes - Also remember sitting scratching my head as I watched my VB code add 1 to a number but it didn't change (learnt that day that in the US when it's exactly .5, they only round the Odd (I think it is) numbers up, in the UK we round them all) 

 

I do take your point & as I said I think there is something there that we don't (and possibly will never) know, I just don't subscribe to the "All Mighty Being" theory... 

Isn't "God" as likely as a monkey coming up with working computer code?

 

The choice is simple. Either life the universe and everything was just a random clashing of particles, or it was designed.

IF one believes in random, where did the particles come from?

 

It's one of the great mysteries of life. Was it random, or designed, if random where did the particles come from, if designed where did the designer come from, if it was from a different designer, where did that designer come from, on and on and on forever.

However, I don't believe the particles just popped into existence from nothing, so that leaves a designer.

As for where the designer came from, I just accept there are things we, primitive species that we are, will never know the answers to.

[mauGR1]

2 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Biologists who also do a little reasonable math will soon see that the current dogma of naturalistic evolution which claims all life evolved from some single spark of life that happened miraculously somehow is actually a total impossibility.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  The DNA could never have developed in that way, mathematically speaking.

 

Because chemicals, molecules, and atoms are subject to natural laws which include such things as the laws of diffusion and of entropy, "Mother Earth," as many like to say, is actually against the type of organization that would promote life or the development of any organism's genetic code.  Organization requires action and cannot possibly be accomplished passively.  It would be as easy to believe that the waves of the sea had beat upon the sand and shaped it into a sand castle (as opposed to a flattened beach) as to believe that the DNA of even the simplest organism had come about due to random chance.  Any random "mutations" of the DNA result in a more disordered code. 

 

To use another example, suppose you have a radio.  You turn the radio on and look for a channel to tune into.  Unless there is a radio station near enough broadcasting on a particular frequency, what do you hear?  Noise.  The further you go away from the station, the noisier its signal gets.  Why does this signal not, instead, become clearer, or perhaps mutate into a different language?  Preposterous, you say?  Of course.  But it is exactly that same level of preposterous that the charlatans of so-called science have asked us to believe.  The evolution of humans from an amoeba is so far out of the realm of possibility that it beggars belief in even the sanity of the ones who propose it.

 

Interesting that science is proving what our "ignorant clairvoyant ancestors" have been saying for aeons.

There is hope that, perhaps in a few years, spiritual science will be seen in a different light, instead of being dismissed as "mumbo-jumbo" or other funny names.

[Tagged]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. You were well indoctrinated into religion! Think outside the box!

If "God" made everything, then everything is in "God".

Im not sure I get it what you want to tell me with this post? 

 

Im born and raised in a christian country, my grand mother was a serious christian, my father followed traditions, and I had to do or forced to do the confirmation at age 14 even I said laud and clear many times I would not do it. Later I signed out of church and now not member anymore. However as I state before, I have always been curious to why people believe what they believe, and read quite alot about different cultures belief and belief systems. If I would choose today as a young, I would for sure start study history and theology.   

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, Tagged said:

Im not sure I get it what you want to tell me with this post? 

 

Im born and raised in a christian country, my grand mother was a serious christian, my father followed traditions, and I had to do or forced to do the confirmation at age 14 even I said laud and clear many times I would not do it. Later I signed out of church and now not member anymore. However as I state before, I have always been curious to why people believe what they believe, and read quite alot about different cultures belief and belief systems. If I would choose today as a young, I would for sure start study history and theology.   

This brings me back in time also. 55

I was never much religious. My grandmother tried to teach me, but my parents never forced religion onto me. As an adolescent, I started to question all the religious stuff, discrepancies and crazy stories and I abandoned it completely. Just before going to university though, I experienced a kundalini awakening, and thanks to that I had to rethink my whole belief system. I enrolled to study philosophy and literature, but was not very passionate about it. I spent most days in my small attic room reading, trying to make sense of what I had experienced and meditate. The questions I had could certainly not be answered in a classroom. 
If I were to study again, I would probably choose history too. 

[Tagged]

11 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

This brings me back in time also. 55

I was never much religious. My grandmother tried to teach me, but my parents never forced religion onto me. As an adolescent, I started to question all the religious stuff, discrepancies and crazy stories and I abandoned it completely. Just before going to university though, I experienced a kundalini awakening, and thanks to that I had to rethink my whole belief system. I enrolled to study philosophy and literature, but was not very passionate about it. I spent most days in my small attic room reading, trying to make sense of what I had experienced and meditate. The questions I had could certainly not be answered in a classroom. 
If I were to study again, I would probably choose history too. 

Not to forget philosophy, 

 

However I have managed to read, try to understand people, cultures, and world, travelled in sport as in work, and I do not think I could have been travelled as much as I have done if I had choosed another path. And as well with a little bith higher energy level than the average, I think I choosed right at the end. 

[rumak]

7 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

@rumak

 

 

 

So, what exactly is your viewpoint? I can't seem to find any...

 

 

you're right.  i don't have one.   you may now continue posting yours without interference from me

[rumak]

55 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I spent most days in my small attic room reading,

some here know how my mind works.   usually reading the above will make my mind think

of a  a. funny   b. satirical   c. nonsensical   d.  none of the above    comment.

I also at times (on different threads) offer opinions on matters that I think I have experience in.

The subject of god and evolution is one I have not read up on.  I do plan on reading the 300 or so pages of this thread over time to hear the viewpoints.    But my comments (sure not to be serious ) I will keep to myself as I am not in the mood for fighting this month.

peace and love

[rumak]

8 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

removed

i can't see your comment  ????  

 

did i say a no no ?     this does seem like an interesting subject, not really my cup of tea,

but who knows.   I have pledged to keep my jokes to myself.   or may god take my superhuman powers away !

Edited December 23, 2019 by rumak

[canuckamuck]

22 minutes ago, rumak said:

i can't see your comment  ????  

 

did i say a no no ?     this does seem like an interesting subject, not really my cup of tea,

but who knows.   I have pledged to keep my jokes to myself.   or may god take my superhuman powers away !

No, I misquoted and couldn't fix it so I just deleted it.

[Skeptic7]

8 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Biologists who also do a little reasonable math will soon see that the current dogma of naturalistic evolution which claims all life evolved from some single spark of life that happened miraculously somehow is actually a total impossibility.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  The DNA could never have developed in that way, mathematically speaking.

 

Because chemicals, molecules, and atoms are subject to natural laws which include such things as the laws of diffusion and of entropy, "Mother Earth," as many like to say, is actually against the type of organization that would promote life or the development of any organism's genetic code.  Organization requires action and cannot possibly be accomplished passively.  It would be as easy to believe that the waves of the sea had beat upon the sand and shaped it into a sand castle (as opposed to a flattened beach) as to believe that the DNA of even the simplest organism had come about due to random chance.  Any random "mutations" of the DNA result in a more disordered code. 

 

To use another example, suppose you have a radio.  You turn the radio on and look for a channel to tune into.  Unless there is a radio station near enough broadcasting on a particular frequency, what do you hear?  Noise.  The further you go away from the station, the noisier its signal gets.  Why does this signal not, instead, become clearer, or perhaps mutate into a different language?  Preposterous, you say?  Of course.  But it is exactly that same level of preposterous that the charlatans of so-called science have asked us to believe.  The evolution of humans from an amoeba is so far out of the realm of possibility that it beggars belief in even the sanity of the ones who propose it.

 

Then why does the vast majority of the scientific world (nearly all) disagree with you? You've made positive claims (stated as fact) in direct opposition to the global acceptance of the scientific consensus. If you "know" all this...then where are your peer reviewed papers and guaranteed awards and probably a Nobel Prize??? Someone of such vast knowledge and expertise hangs out here on TV instead of enlightening the entire world with knowledge so vast as to debunk The Theory of Evolution! 

 

Makes perfect sense...

[Sunmaster]

I just found this passage in a book I'm reading, which basically mirrors what I said about the black holes, electrons and God a few pages back.

 

Charles Robert Richet, Nobel laureate in physiology writes:

"Those amazing truths that our descendants will discover are even now all around us, staring us in the eyes, so to speak; and yet we do not see them. But it is not enough to say that we do not see them; we do not wish to see them - for as soon as an unexpected and unfamiliar fact appears, we try to fit it into the framework of the commonplaces of accepted knowledge, and are indignant that anyone should dare to experiment further."

 

 

He wrote this about 100 years ago and sadly it's still the prevailing attitude today.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

I just found this passage in a book I'm reading, which basically mirrors what I said about the black holes, electrons and God a few pages back.

 

Charles Robert Richet, Nobel laureate in physiology writes:

"Those amazing truths that our descendants will discover are even now all around us, staring us in the eyes, so to speak; and yet we do not see them. But it is not enough to say that we do not see them; we do not wish to see them - for as soon as an unexpected and unfamiliar fact appears, we try to fit it into the framework of the commonplaces of accepted knowledge, and are indignant that anyone should dare to experiment further."

 

 

He wrote this about 100 years ago and sadly it's still the prevailing attitude today.

There are none so blind as those that will not see.

 

I could modify that to "There are none so closed as those that refuse to open themselves ( to other possibilities )"

[CMNightRider]

In the Old Testament there are over 250 prophecies about a coming Messiah.  Each one of these is fulfilled in minute detail in the life of Jesus Christ.  While it is true that most people’s lives can only be chronicled after they have lived it, the life of Jesus was chronicled before He arrived on Earth.

 

In addition, a host of the prophecies concerning Christ were intentionally specific and could not have been arranged by a mere human who was falsely claiming to be the Messiah.

 

For instance, the Old Testament told where the Messiah would be born (Micah 5:2), a situation that cannot be manipulated by the one being born.  The circumstances of the Messiah’s death were detailed, even down to His burial, which provides another instance in which the deceased could not have connived a fulfilment.

 

For those who are unfortunate enough to pass away before figuring out the Bible is the word of God with no errors, you will have an eternity of regret.  We have until our last breath to accept Jesus Christ as our savior.  After that it is a done deal.

 

 

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

For those who are unfortunate enough to pass away before figuring out the Bible is the word of God with no errors, you will have an eternity of regret.  We have until our last breath to accept Jesus Christ as our savior.  After that it is a done deal.

All those Thais amongst whom you live in CM - do you keep banging on to them about how they will all end up in hell?

[CMNightRider]

12 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

All those Thais amongst whom you live in CM - do you keep banging on to them about how they will all end up in hell?

If I were you, I would spend less time posting silly comments, and more time thinking about what you do or don't do.  Do you know of another series of books in human history that maintained the supernatural consistency that is present within the pages of the Bible.  From the first book of Genesis to the last book of Revelation, approximately 40 men penned individual treatises that combine to form the best-selling, most widely distributed, perfectly united, flawlessly written book ever produced.

 

Mere human genius never could have produced a work with such predictive prophecy, scientific foreknowledge, and overall factual accuracy.  Common sense leads me to the only rational conclusion, the Bible is the word of God.  I wonder what part of this you don't understand.

 

 

[Sunmaster]

40 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

For those who are unfortunate enough to pass away before figuring out the Bible is the word of God with no errors, you will have an eternity of regret.  We have until our last breath to accept Jesus Christ as our savior.  After that it is a done deal.

There I was thinking that you finally posted something interesting, then you had to spoil everything with this....again.

Does it make sense to you that someone who never heard of your bible would be eternally damned to hell? If God is the converging point of all the goodness, the beauty and the truth, the Eternal Love, the Ultimate Wisdom, the one who loves his creation unconditionally, then *yours* must be a minor god that hasn't learned how to be compassionate and forgiving.

But of course there's no such thing as a minor god. God is either GOD or no god at all. 

 

God doesn't care if you come to 'him' through one way or another. The important is that you start walking towards him. I believe EVERYBODY (including atheists, murderers, unbaptized children, homosexuals etc etc) are walking towards God, the only difference is how many lifetimes it will take them. 

[Tagged]

6 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

God doesn't care if you come to 'him' through one way or another. The important is that you start walking towards him. I believe EVERYBODY (including atheists, murderers, unbaptized children, homosexuals etc etc) are walking towards God, the only difference is how many lifetimes it will take them. 

Thats a good mix, and it coud be right. I really hope it is just a blanc moment, and we are gone. Truly, I do and everything is recycled, done with it. The only thing that can make you live forever, is if you have kids. And remember the 7 generation sin, it is your kids, grandchildren and so on who have to pay for your mistakes long time after you are gone. 

 

Have a merry christmas with god or without.

 

Have mercy on all of us!

[Sunmaster]

7 hours ago, Tagged said:

And remember the 7 generation sin, it is your kids, grandchildren and so on who have to pay for your mistakes long time after you are gone. 

As it turns out, this might not be too far off the target!

I just read a research paper by a Norwegian scientist who experimented on chicken. Some of the chicken had to live in a stressful environment for a period of time and then put back in a relaxing environment. The chicks born later had the same behavioral deficiencies their parents showed when they were tested, even though they never experienced that stressful time themselves. 
This had to do with changes in the DNA, showing that evolution doesn't just happen by selecting the fittest, but also through changes in the environment. 
And if chicken DNA can be changed like that, human DNA could be changed just as well.
What we do and how we live today, truly affects our children and grandchildren.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Sunmaster

[Skeptic7]

4 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

In the Old Testament there are over 250 prophecies about a coming Messiah.  Each one of these is fulfilled in minute detail in the life of Jesus Christ.  While it is true that most people’s lives can only be chronicled after they have lived it, the life of Jesus was chronicled before He arrived on Earth.

 

In addition, a host of the prophecies concerning Christ were intentionally specific and could not have been arranged by a mere human who was falsely claiming to be the Messiah.

 

For instance, the Old Testament told where the Messiah would be born (Micah 5:2), a situation that cannot be manipulated by the one being born.  The circumstances of the Messiah’s death were detailed, even down to His burial, which provides another instance in which the deceased could not have connived a fulfilment.

 

For those who are unfortunate enough to pass away before figuring out the Bible is the word of God with no errors, you will have an eternity of regret.  We have until our last breath to accept Jesus Christ as our savior.  After that it is a done deal.

 

 

Oh my Buddha! Don't you have a birthday party to attend soon or something? 

[CMNightRider]

1 hour ago, Skeptic7 said:

Oh my Buddha! Don't you have a birthday party to attend soon or something? 

It's always nice to hear your positive comments.  Merry Christmas, Ho, Ho, Ho ????   

[Elad]

On 12/23/2019 at 12:29 AM, AsianAtHeart said:

Because chemicals, molecules, and atoms are subject to natural laws which include such things as the laws of diffusion and of entropy,

Although entropy always increases for non living matter, in some cases, there's actually some process of order from chaos. For example, in the core of a star where nuclear fusion takes place, two hydrogen atoms form a helium atom and the helium atom is more complex than a hydrogen atom. Helium fuses to form carbon (the base element for life) and carbon is more complex than helium. The amount of energy given off in nuclear fusion or the increase in entropy, more than compensates for the amount of order, so overall, entropy increases. Supernova explosions create more complex atoms such as gold and platinum, but the amount of energy released gives an overall increase in entropy.

 

Interesting things happen in extreme environments, which is why I think a good candidate for where life could have first formed is around volcanic vents at the bottom of the ocean where temperatures and pressures are much higher than at the surface. Fossilized organisms have been found around these vents dating back 4.28 billion years, which is very shortly after the oceans formed.    

[Tagged]

On 12/22/2019 at 4:09 PM, rumak said:

if there is a god,  surely when he looks at what he has created he would definitely make fun

of it.    i hope.  

If there is a good with some common sense, Im sure he is depressed of the chaos he made.

 

What if there is more than one supernatural power, and more than one creator. Maybe we are just in a computer game ala Sims ? 

 

On the planet now, we have insects that live live only just a few hours, animals lifespan from one year to 150,  sharks that live 500 year, and trees 9500 years! Time is quite defused confution when you compare this against our time on the planet. 

 

However, when you see how one specie adopt to the inviroment, you know there have been an evolution going on. There is no way anyone can deny animals adopt and the survival of the fittest is true, and will always be true! 

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, Tagged said:

The only thing that can make you live forever, is if you have kids.

Just to be pendantic, that's not true. Even if the human race survived on the planet till the sun expands and consumes it, nothing in this universe is forever. The only way to survive forever is if "God" is real.

As I said, just being pendantic, so don't get all worked up about it- life's too short.

Have a happy holiday:-)

Edited December 24, 2019 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Tagged said:

If there is a good with some common sense, Im sure he is depressed of the chaos he made.

Ah, ascribing human emotions to the creator of life the universe and everything.

I'm sure that "God" has more things to think about than what happens on an insignificant planet in an insignificant solar system, in an insignificant galaxy, when there are billions and billions of planets with life on them in the universe.