Do you believe in God and why

[luckyluke]

On 2/17/2020 at 1:02 PM, Sunmaster said:

Even the most uneducated person in the world can know God if he puts in the effort to practice.

 

Assuming he wants to know God.

Some are quite happy without the desire to knowing "God"

 

It is to each of us in particular to chose which paths to use to find what he is looking for.

[luckyluke]

On 2/17/2020 at 2:35 PM, mauGR1 said:

Jesus said (or at least i think he said) it in 3 words: "Love your enemy".

 

No need if you have no enemies, or consider you haven't. 

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

If ideas are the building blocks of creation then the attitude which works best is a playful one.  Just as children do, if you don't like what you've constructed you are free to tear it all down and start over again.  Children have fun with it.  Adults, not so much.

Yes, before you said that the physical world is a mirror of the spiritual worlds, and we have clear examples in the nature in the realms of minerals, plants, animals and humans.

The evolution of our thoughts follow the same stages, in a way, and the higher the realms, the more fluid the "reality".

Or, at least, at the moment, it makes sense to me ????

[Tippaporn]

5 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

That's some point i try to make here, but your command of English is obviously much better then mine !

I agree with every word, perhaps we have been reading the same books, been having similar experiences, or something.

The other day i was wondering if the answers of all questions are already within the limits of consciousness, and the answer is yes, as individual beings, but ...

Things start to be complicated for any human society, from a family, to a tribe, a nation, or the whole planet. Conflicts will always arise.

yet, apparently, without helping each other, we can't survive as a species.

I remember one old man saying to me: "The individual is free to embrace spiritual values, but a nation cannot afford the same luxury".

Thanks again for the good posts.

 

When enough of the puzzle picture begins to form then the translation of your knowing into language follows automatically.  Same with any subject matter.

 

It dawned on me when I was about 13 or 14 that there was an answer to every question.  It was, for me, a very supportive belief to hold while questioning (and I belief a true one).  Only later did I learn that all of the answers are within us.  They don't truly exist outside of ourselves.  Whether or not we can access them immediately and at will is an entirely separate question.

 

It's been said that even if it were possible to annihilate all of but the smallest unit of consciousness in existence the whole is contained within each unit of consciousness and therefore existence would survive.  Of course it was also pointed out at the same time, and I believe it to be true, that it's impossible to annihilate existence.  Perhaps a rather insoluble point to bring up but I thought I'd make mention.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, luckyluke said:

No need if you have no enemies, or consider you haven't. 

I said "enemies" in a broad way, surely you are not saying that all yours existence has been completely free of trouble ?

There is undoubtedly some truth in what you say, but then you must be a very lucky man indeed !

If i look around, most people i see are having some sort of "enemies" or "troubles", including myself of course.

Actually, and i speak for myself, more often than not, my worst enemy is myself

[luckyluke]

On 2/19/2020 at 8:25 AM, mauGR1 said:

Of course, there are temporary truths and eternal truths, the intelligent design, or God, is eternal, but feel free to think that's only in my imagination.

Some will think it is  your imagination some won't,

I don't think that is of any importance.

Your way is the good one for you. 

There are however different ways.

 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Perhaps a rather insoluble point to bring up but I thought I'd make mention.

Personally i accept (or try to accept) that "the source", or God, whatever we call s/he, is non-born and infinite in time and space, and surely this makes more sense to me than the opposite theory which claims that everything has a beginning and thus an end.

[mauGR1]

7 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Some will think it is  your imagination some won't,

I don't think that is of any importance.

Your way is the good one for you. 

There are however different ways.

 

Yes, there are infinite ways, and yes, my opinion has not any importance.

[Tippaporn]

17 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Assuming he wants to know God.

Some are quite happy without the desire to knowing "God"

 

It is to each of us in particular to chose which paths to use to find what he is looking for.

Amen to that.

 

As individuals where no two are identical we each have our preferences, inclinations, and challenges.  We each have our own reasons for being here, therefore an unlimited number of paths to choose from.  None more or less worthy or important than the other.  Some more joyful than others, though.  

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

, my opinion has not any importance.

Strange thing to think.

You should at least consider your opinion, not as the only right one, but  as as important as any other one.

[Sunmaster]

I've re-read today's posts with great interest, with the desire to chime in. But you guys seem to be on a good roll on your own, so I'll just sit back and enjoy.

Just one question for @Tippaporn....where have you been the last few months?!? ???? 

[Sunmaster]

5 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Strange thing to think.

You should at least consider your opinion, not as the only right one, but  as as important as any other one.

Interesting. Can I think that my opinion is not the only right one, but still at the same time "more right" than some other opinions?

Edited February 20, 2020 by Sunmaster

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Strange thing to think.

You should at least consider your opinion, not as the only right one, but  as as important as any other one.

That's not the strangest thing i think !

Actually the strangest things i think are nearly impossible to describe.

Perhaps opinions are like drops of water, they look all the same, but if you look closer there are not 2 which are exactly identical.

[luckyluke]

23 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I said "enemies" in a broad way, surely you are not saying that all yours existence has been completely free of trouble ?

Of course my existence hasn't be free of trouble. But I consider these as a bad moment which have passed, or will.

Better to concentrate on the good things which have and are part of ones live.

Enjoy for instance the beauty and serenity of nature.

Each of us will have his own explanation why it is there, not really important, the fact that it is there is important 

[Tippaporn]

19 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Personally i accept (or try to accept) that "the source", or God, whatever we call s/he, is non-born and infinite in time and space, and surely this makes more sense to me than the opposite theory which claims that everything has a beginning and thus an end.

I believe time is a physical construct.  In which case there are no beginnings and endings.  Unfathomable for those who's awareness is of none other than time.

 

But even time is said to have variations.  A lengthy dream can be had in what seems to be the blink of an eye.  Associative thought rearranges time sequences and is freer from the constraints of linear time.  A single event has no beginning or ending, though we may assign such to them.  Again, a reality where there is no before or after seems incomprehensible to us.

[luckyluke]

5 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

That's not the strangest thing i think !

Actually the strangest things i think are nearly impossible to describe.

Perhaps opinions are like drops of water, they look all the same, but if you look closer there are not 2 which are exactly identical.

Fair enough, however it seems to me you like to make things complicated and are looking too much to try to explain or find a reason for everything.

I enjoy life and my way to find happiness and serenity are simple.

But of course to each his own.

Wish you the best.

 

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Fair enough, however it seems to me you like to make things complicated and are looking too much to try to explain or find a reason for everything.

I enjoy life and my way to find happiness and serenity are simple.

But of course to each his own.

Wish you the best.

 

Perhaps i "like to make things complicated" or i am "looking too much to try to explain" or "find a reason for everything" ... I respect your opinion, but it's my choice to post here, and your freedom to disagree with everything i say, or ignore my comments altogether if they disturb your happiness.

Wish you the best too.

[luckyluke]

23 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Interesting. Can I think that my opinion is not the only right one, but still at the same time "more right" than some other opinions?

Nobody can stop you to think what you want.

Now if you express that opinion, some may express than their  opinion about it,

which can be agreeing with it or not at all. 

[luckyluke]

9 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Perhaps i "like to make things complicated" or i am "looking too much to try to explain" or "find a reason for everything" ... I respect your opinion, but it's my choice to post here, and your freedom to disagree with everything i say, or ignore my comments altogether if they disturb your happiness.

Wish you the best too.

I expressed my opinion about your way, your way  is simply not mine.

I don't disagree because it is you who express it, and your comments as any comments don't disturb my happiness.

I still think we are looking for the same, our ways are only different, but no way is better or worse.

Edited February 20, 2020 by luckyluke

[Tippaporn]

20 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I've re-read today's posts with great interest, with the desire to chime in. But you guys seem to be on a good roll on your own, so I'll just sit back and enjoy.

Just one question for @Tippaporn....where have you been the last few months?!? ???? 

Been around since the beginning of the thread actually (reading only).  Hesitant to engage for a number of reasons.  I've always been one to enjoy exchanges of ideas, especially on topics which are meaningful and profound to me . . . so long as it's playful.  Weightier subject matter often tends to devolve into mindless and purely insulting posts.  I would then rather spend my time on other fulfilling interests.  Public general forums often don't work well when the subject matter is God or life itself.  

[ThaiBunny]

3 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

The Universe As Idea Construction.  An interesting notion, is it not?  How far might that concept go to providing accurate explanations for what we are experiencing?  And if indeed correct how vast would the effects be upon our current thinking of how the world works?

How about the concept of "confirmation bias"? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

[canuckamuck]

21 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Been around since the beginning of the thread actually (reading only).  Hesitant to engage for a number of reasons.  I've always been one to enjoy exchanges of ideas, especially on topics which are meaningful and profound to me . . . so long as it's playful.  Weightier subject matter often tends to devolve into mindless and purely insulting posts.  I would then rather spend my time on other fulfilling interests.  Public general forums often don't work well when the subject matter is God or life itself.  

I think this thread is quite a marvel, as it has not been drawn into pettiness (much) and the free flow of ideas has been accommodated.

People's worldviews are intimate and usually do not fair well in the wild. Welcome to the thread Tipper.

[Tippaporn]

18 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

  

3 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

The Universe As Idea Construction.  An interesting notion, is it not?  How far might that concept go to providing accurate explanations for what we are experiencing?  And if indeed correct how vast would the effects be upon our current thinking of how the world works?

How about the concept of "confirmation bias"? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

 

28 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Been around since the beginning of the thread actually (reading only).  Hesitant to engage for a number of reasons.  I've always been one to enjoy exchanges of ideas, especially on topics which are meaningful and profound to me . . . so long as it's playful.  Weightier subject matter often tends to devolve into mindless and purely insulting posts.  I would then rather spend my time on other fulfilling interests.  Public general forums often don't work well when the subject matter is God or life itself.  

So it starts with a troll post.  The obvious purpose of the post is to suggest that any points or ideas the poster (me) comes up with are nothing more than confirmation bias, i.e. self-delusional bullsh!t.

 

Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or strengthens one's prior personal beliefs or hypotheses.^[1] It is a type of cognitive bias. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply-entrenched beliefs.

 

ThaiBunny provides no other meaningful commentary, nor does he attempt to question the content of the post, nor does he provide an opposing viewpoint.  Just blatant trolling via a subtle insult to produce a negative reaction.  And perhaps he even believes it makes him look smart and me stupid.  Which would truly be self-delusional.

 

You've been posting on TVF long enough, should have read the forum rules if you haven't already, and are well aware that trolling is against forum rules but you go ahead and do it anyway.  Think you can get away with it?

[Tippaporn]

24 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I think this thread is quite a marvel, as it has not been drawn into pettiness (much) and the free flow of ideas has been accommodated.

People's worldviews are intimate and usually do not fair well in the wild. Welcome to the thread Tipper.

Thanks.  Let's see how long I survive.  5555555555

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

The obvious purpose of the post is to suggest that any points or ideas the poster (me) comes up with are nothing more than confirmation bias, i.e. self-delusional bullsh!t.

It's not always about you. I was specifically thinking of MAUgr1's favourite fantasy - intelligent design. As for "self-delusional <deleted>", is that how you characterise the Placebo Effect?

[Tippaporn]

16 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

It's not always about you. I was specifically thinking of MAUgr1's favourite fantasy - intelligent design. As for "self-delusional <deleted>", is that how you characterise the Placebo Effect?

Nice feint, ThaiBunny, but you quoted me and not mauGR1.  The proof is always in the pudding.  If you'd like to discuss intelligent design intelligently and with civility and respect I'd be more than happy to do so.

 

If your intent is to merely bash others for their views, make them look stupid, insinuate that your views are absolute truth and if not accepted by others then they're idiots, assert that your views are correct and others are mere fantasy and beneath you, and are unwilling to exchange views in an effort to gain knowledge then count me out.

[Sunmaster]

37 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

It's not always about you. I was specifically thinking of MAUgr1's favourite fantasy - intelligent design. As for "self-delusional <deleted>", is that how you characterise the Placebo Effect?

We can not read your thoughts, can we?

[ThaiBunny]

9 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

assert that your views are correct and others are mere fantasy

Perhaps if you don't persist in asserting what you assume are my views. My view is that none of us will ever know, that if we bother to hold any view at all (and that includes me) it is all mere fantasy

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

We can not read your thoughts, can we?

There's been no evidence of that so far in this entire thread

[Tippaporn]

3 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Perhaps if you don't persist in asserting what you assume are my views. My view is that none of us will ever know, that if we bother to hold any view at all (and that includes me) it is all mere fantasy

Never asserted anything about what your views are.  Merely stated that if your intention was [all of what I wrote] then don't engage with me.  I don't pretend to know what your intentions are or what your personal beliefs are since I don't know you at all.

 

Now I have a question for you, and it's entirely up to you to answer or not.  If you believe that none of us will ever know (any truth as to the true nature of reality and/or ourselves or the existence of God, I assume, since you left out what it is that we think we know) and that any view we have is mere fantasy then what would be the point of your posting here?  Given the view that we can't know (whatever) and whatever we believe is all personal fantasy then it doesn't appear that there would be much else to say on the subject.  Nothing to expound on.  Or am I missing something?