Do you believe in God and why

[BritManToo]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Eg why does God let children die? God loves us whether we live 5 minutes or 5 decades.

If you're a Catholic, apparently god doesn't love you until you've been baptised.

[Sunmaster]

4 hours ago, teatime101 said:

Why is a Big Bang impossible, when you believe in a Creator, a far less comprehensible concept? Neither can be 'proven', but at least the Big Bang theory is built on evidence. 'God' is simply a construct of the human imagination to tidy away difficult questions with simplistic answers.

I think it's quite ironic... 
What the science enthusiasts do all the time, is trying to downsplaining the most difficult questions in life in simplistic terms. "Oh, consciousness is just the neurons firing in your brain"...."That's just junk DNA....just dark matter...just this, just that". They don't realize that they've explained absolutely nothing, because in most cases they're no scientists and have no idea what those terms actually mean. In fact, neither the real scientists know what those terms entail, hence they call them "junk DNA" or "dark matter". They are just assumptions, based on insufficient data.

You say "God is simply a construct of the human mind". Yes and no. 

Yes, if you mean that the word "God" and the concept around it, are attempts to define the undefinable.

No, if you mean that the concept of God is a figment of human imagination without real substance.

I suspect you mean the second one, right?

 

To respond to that (and I'll never get tired to repeat it), I would encourage you and everyone who thinks there's no evidence for a Higher Power, to find out by yourself. Don't just rely on other people's opinions (be they scientific or spiritual) when it comes to your personal connection to the Divine. In fact, the more you listen to others, the less you will understand. No wonder there's so much confusion going around. People don't take the time to look within and explore their innermost being.... not with intellectual somersaults, not by useless reveries, but in the pursuit of silence....because that's where the Divine's voice speaks the loudest.

 

Why would you be satisfied with just believing when there are proven tools to actually know? Why base your opinion of God on the insufficient data provided by books and pseudo authorities, when you already have all the necessary requisites to realize God within yourself?

The fact that you have an inquiring mind is a great starting point, but don't let the mind become the chain that keeps you from experiencing God. "Mind" can NOT make sense of God. You have to go beyond Mind to find your true Self, and thus God.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Sunmaster

[OneMoreFarang]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Still talking about religion, I see. A virus has as much right as humans to live. Why do you think humans are more important than mosquitoes? Nature does not support one organism over another and EVERYTHING is part of God's universe, even to the smallest atom. Remember, God is not a man, and does not have human qualities.

This thread for some of us has evolved far, far beyond the religion aspect into spirituality and oneness with the force that is God.

Are you real?

Do animals also pray? 

And how about flowers? Do they have temples?

[OneMoreFarang]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If you get upset about us just stop reading the thread. Simple as 1 2 3.

It's like if you see some primitives dancing and hoping that will bring rain. Sometimes it's funny watching them doing these irrational things.

[Skeptic7]

8 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

This post is asking if you believe in God and why. Not about offering proof for anything. I have faith, you don't believe. I have reasons I've explained for my faith. What are your reasons for not believing?

My reason is there's no evidence. None. Your faith disregards all the knowledge gained in the past 2000 years and clings to superstition, fear and ignorance. It's nonsensical. 

 

I think this quote sums it up succinctly...especially the second sentence. 

 

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”

― Stephen Roberts

[Sunmaster]

Just now, Skeptic7 said:

My reason is there's no evidence. None. Your faith disregards all the knowledge gained in the past 2000 years and clings to superstition, fear and ignorance. It's nonsensical. 

 

I think this quote sums it up succinctly...especially the second sentence. 

 

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”

― Stephen Roberts

Read my post above. No superstition, no fear and definitely no ignorance....just plain and simple self inquiry. 

But I do understand that it's easier to just dismiss it beforehand. "Shortcuts of the mind" I believe they're called. ???? 

[Skeptic7]

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

Just like you can not disprove a three legged Spaghetti monster.

Hey!!! The Spaghetti Monster has WAY more noodly appendages than three! 

[teatime101]

2 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Humanists have picked apart the Bible for years, trying to show there isn't a God.

I think the main purpose of picking apart the Bible is to show that it's not of divine origin, which is certainly not hard. The fact that people not only believe that it is divine, but have used, and continue to try to use, it to control society, is an even more important reason to pick it apart.

[Skeptic7]

4 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Read my post above. No superstition, no fear and definitely no ignorance....just plain and simple self inquiry. 

But I do understand that it's easier to just dismiss it beforehand. "Shortcuts of the mind" I believe they're called. ???? 

Was addressing Friggy's god in my post. His faith is strict, bible thumping, Adam & Eve, young earth, gonna burn you in Hell for all eternity god of "love". 

 

Yours is all in your mind. Esoteric, but still without any demonstrable evidence. Just your interpretation of brain activity in altered states. I agree those altered states of one's mind can be achieved...but how are they advancing society? Or benefiting the world on a global scale? There are many ways for one to make oneself feel good...of what benefit is that anyone else?

 

If you're correct, why can't you convince Friggy...or vice versa?

[teatime101]

59 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

"Oh, consciousness is just the neurons firing in your brain"

That may be what some neuroscientists believe. I'm not sure there is any evidence to show consciousness exists at all. It is one of life's 'subjective realities', along with sound and colour, and I guess all our sensory experience.

 

Did you know that neither colour nor sound can be proven to exist? Our brain receives stimulus and we imagine colours and sounds. They exist in our imagination only.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, Skeptic7 said:

Was addressing Friggy's god in my post. His faith is strict, bible thumping, Adam & Eve, young earth, gonna burn you in Hell for all eternity god of "love". 

 

Yours is all in your mind. Esoteric, but still without any demonstrable evidence. Just your interpretation of brain activity in altered states. I agree those altered states of one's mind can be achieved...but how are they advancing society? Or benefiting the world on a global scale? There are many ways for one to make oneself feel good...of what benefit is that anyone else?

 

If you're correct, why can't you convince Friggy...or vice versa?

It's fredwiggy, not friggy by the way, and my God happens to be yours also,as you will find out someday. No one needs to convince me of anything, I already know my God exists. I don't need proof, as I don't need proof the universe just happened. It didn't. I know the Bible has faults. It was written by people, over centuries of time, and some things aren't correct. It's supposed to be the word of God, and much may in fact be, but people make mistakes. I never said this was a young earth, it's probably billions of years old. And since you don't have a body, you can't burn in hell. Hell to me is a lonely place, without love or companionship. Mental pain. My faith is strict, because unlike what you and others believe, this world didn't just happen, and I believe in my God as the creator. What you think is your altered state.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, teatime101 said:

Did you know that neither colour nor sound can be proven to exist? Our brain receives stimulus and we imagine colours and sounds. They exist in our imagination only.

That's interesting, coming from you.

If physical reality is an illusion, how can you rely so much on science then, as it is based on the illusion of physical reality ?

[teatime101]

21 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

If physical reality is an illusion

Science explains things that can be observed or measured.

 

Consider the quantum world. Events occur and can be 'observed', at least indirectly. Asking whether quarks or neutrinos are illusions makes no sense. We have a human understanding of 'reality', which is clearly limited by our senses and mental capacities.

 

Continuing with the 'imaginary' train of thought. Time is experienced by us humans as some 'rate', but to a massless particle travelling at the speed of light (eg a photon) time does not pass at all.

 

Thanks, Herr Einstein.

Edited May 9, 2020 by teatime101

[pineapple01]

NO

[teatime101]

22 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

If physical reality is an illusion, how can you rely so much on science then

Science explains how the universe works. Nothing else does that.

[fredwiggy]

32 minutes ago, teatime101 said:

That may be what some neuroscientists believe. I'm not sure there is any evidence to show consciousness exists at all. It is one of life's 'subjective realities', along with sound and colour, and I guess all our sensory experience.

 

Did you know that neither colour nor sound can be proven to exist? Our brain receives stimulus and we imagine colours and sounds. They exist in our imagination only.

Who tells you these things? If color and sound are in our imagination,explain that many people like the same songs from the same bands. Is everyone imagining the same thing at the same time at a concert? When I play progressive metal music in my car, why does my wife ask to turn it down if it's only in my imagination? When I ask for red paint at the store,  how does the salesman know that red is the same color I need if red color is only in our imagination?

Edited May 9, 2020 by fredwiggy

[teatime101]

14 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

how does the salesman know that red is the same color I need if red color is only in our imagination

He doesn't. We all agree that a certain wavelength of light has the label 'red'. 

 

The colour red is what a 'red' object reflects, by the way. The object is not red, in any meaningful sense of the word. It's just a convention that we assign colours to objects.

 

Consider a sound - an object vibrates, the vibration is passed to air molecules, then to our ear and finally to our brain. No amount of observation will detect the experience of sound in my imagination - just neurons firing and jiggling about.

 

We imagine that sound is 'out there'. It's not. It's in my mind.

 

All this tells me science cannot touch the subjective world. That;'s a deep mystery to me, but my agnostic worldview forbids that I make assumptions about the reason for it, such as 'god did it'.

Edited May 9, 2020 by teatime101

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

People don't take the time to look within and explore their innermost being.... not with intellectual somersaults, not by useless reveries, but in the pursuit of silence....because that's where the Divine's voice speaks the loudest.

 

Why would you be satisfied with just believing when there are proven tools to actually know? Why base your opinion of God on the insufficient data provided by books and pseudo authorities, when you already have all the necessary requisites to realize God within yourself?

The fact that you have an inquiring mind is a great starting point, but don't let the mind become the chain that keeps you from experiencing God. "Mind" can NOT make sense of God. You have to go beyond Mind to find your true Self, and thus God.

I have sat many hours, in silence. 

 

I went to a Zen monastery. I sat there in silence. Literally, those brothers don't speak during meals. It's very odd. I didn't like it all. All this dour over seriousness, sitting in silence. That's why I left the Zen monastery, I couldn't replicate that seriousness. When those Germans started chanting in Japanese with all the seriousness of Japanese monks, that's when I knew I had to get out. It was just too ridiculous for me. The Japanese Zen master was a wise man, and I was grateful for the opportunity to be there. But I found the actual Sangha a bit ridiculous.

 

Anyway, that didn't stop me from sitting in silence in my meditation room at home. And yes, you do get, after many hours of nothing much happening, the odd altered state which lets you experience altered states of mind that are calming, joyful, and above all you have intellectual clarifications.

 

I didn't hear any divine voices. Despite years of sitting in silence. Very interesting altered states. Yes. Mysterious ones even. Were those divine experiences? Never occurred to me.

 

The mind can be a prison, of course, that monkey mind. And you are absolutely right to urge people to meditate. I think it should be mandatory in schools. The Thai monastic experience is a wonderful tradition. No hour spent in meditation is ever wasted.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Logosone

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Skeptic7 said:

Hey!!! The Spaghetti Monster has WAY more noodly appendages than three! 

And here is the proof.

 

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, teatime101 said:

Did you know that neither colour nor sound can be proven to exist? Our brain receives stimulus and we imagine colours and sounds. They exist in our imagination only.

Yes, and in the same way, we are receivers for all sorts of frequencies. It's just a matter where we tune in. 
When they say "expand your consciousness", it really just means to expand the range of frequencies we can attune to. 

In this sense, "God" or the God-experience is another such frequency we can learn to consciously receive. In fact, "Om" is said to be the essence of the ultimate reality, but it is also a sound that you can learn to hear and tune in to. There's a whole 'science of sacred sound' called Nada Brahma (Sound is God, or The world is Sound).

[Sunmaster]

2 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Yours is all in your mind. Esoteric, but still without any demonstrable evidence. Just your interpretation of brain activity in altered states. I agree those altered states of one's mind can be achieved...but how are they advancing society? Or benefiting the world on a global scale? There are many ways for one to make oneself feel good...of what benefit is that anyone else?

 

If you're correct, why can't you convince Friggy...or vice versa?

Here we go again with the downsplaining.... 
No, it's not just my interpretation. There is a vast consensus among those who practice one or the other introspective practice. There are not millions of individual interpretations and potential new religions, there are not millions of spaghetti monster type of gods, are there?

 

2 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

I agree those altered states of one's mind can be achieved...but how are they advancing society? Or benefiting the world on a global scale?

Now that's a good question.
Society is a conglomerate of many individuals. If an individual, or a group of individuals, makes personal development and the search for God its main goal, they will foremost have a personal benefit from it. Society will then benefit from their achievements as a result. 
It's just like when you meet a person who is content, happy and radiates love....how do you feel and how does it affect your day? Everybody benefits from that, consciously or not.

I'm not saying only spiritual people can be content, happy and loving, but I think the depth and the quality (intensity perhaps) are different. 
 

2 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

 

If you're correct, why can't you convince Friggy...or vice versa?

Once you went from believing (or in my case NOT believing) to knowing, do you think you could go back to simply believing?
And if you're content with just believing (or in your case, not believing), what incentive would you need to go to knowing?

Edited May 9, 2020 by Sunmaster

[OneMoreFarang]

29 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

2 hours ago, teatime101 said:

Did you know that neither colour nor sound can be proven to exist? Our brain receives stimulus and we imagine colours and sounds. They exist in our imagination only.

Yes, and in the same way, we are receivers for all sorts of frequencies. It's just a matter where we tune in. 
When they say "expand your consciousness", it really just means to expand the range of frequencies we can attune to. 

Color and sound can easily be measured. Any video camera does that.

And what exactly is god's frequency? How many Hz? AM or FM? Analogue or digital? Please explain.

If there would be a frequency with god's signals then it should be possible to measure it. Maybe most of us wouldn't understand the message but we should be able to measure that something was transmitted. What? When?

Edited May 9, 2020 by OneMoreFarang

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Color and sound can easily be measured. Any video camera does that.

And what exactly is god's frequency? How many Hz? AM or FM? Analogue or digital? Please explain.

If there would be a frequency with god's signals then it should be possible to measure it. Maybe most of us wouldn't understand the message but we should be able to measure that something was transmitted. What? When?

You sound like those guys who take the bible stories literally.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

You sound like those guys who take the bible stories literally.

Actually worse imho, he sounds like someone who has a tarantula in his underwear.

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

You sound like those guys who take the bible stories literally.

It seems that's what lots of Christians do.

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Actually worse imho, he sounds like someone who has a tarantula in his underwear.

Why? Because I reject the tooth fairy and similar imaginations? At least you can see and feel a tarantula. And I am sure she sends signals on some frequencies - measurable. 

 

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Why? Because I reject the tooth fairy and similar imaginations?

I am sure you have enough grey matter to discuss a subject in a fair way. Yet, in this thread you never did.

If you are not interested and you think that we are brainwashed idiots, then what are you doing here ?

I know, life is not fair and all that, but there are lots of ways to overcome delusions.

[OneMoreFarang]

49 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I know, life is not fair and all that, but there are lots of ways to overcome delusions.

That's what I am hoping for. I wonder how long it will take for all those people who believe to overcome their delusions.

By now there should be enough evidence that there is no god. And no evidence that there is a god.

 

Ok, let's start something productive here: Let's imagine for a moment no religion would exist today. Nobody would believe in any god. And no parents would tell their children religions fairytales. People would learn and understand science.

Now in that kind of situation who would get the idea to "invent" god? Would anybody somehow feel: This supernatural whatever talked to me and wants that I pray? I don't think that would happen.

As far as I see most (all?) those believers exist because mostly their parents told them, when they were young and ignorant, that there is a god. And be a good girl/boy otherwise god is angry...

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

That's what I am hoping for. I wonder how long it will take for all those people who believe to overcome their delusions.

By now there should be enough evidence that there is no god. And no evidence that there is a god.

 

Ok, let's start something productive here: Let's imagine for a moment no religion would exist today. Nobody would believe in any god. And no parents would tell their children religions fairytales. People would learn and understand science.

Now in that kind of situation who would get the idea to "invent" god? Would anybody somehow feel: This supernatural whatever talked to me and wants that I pray? I don't think that would happen.

As far as I see most (all?) those believers exist because mostly their parents told them, when they were young and ignorant, that there is a god. And be a good girl/boy otherwise god is angry...

Thanks for the honest post, but i find mistakes in almost every line.

So, just not to waste too much of your time, i'll just tell you about myself.

I was taught by my parents to go to church on sundays, which i did for many years.

At 7, i was swearing god so loud that they could hear me down the street, but a beautiful and gentle nun talked to me and convinced me to stop.

Again, at 14/15 i stopped to go to church, i could not have cared less about god and religion.

Then when i was 19, i went to a trip to India, i was shocked by the heat, the poverty, and the faith of the people, and i started asking myself a lot of difficult questions.

Now, it's none of my business what you believe and what you don't, the fact is that, since aeons, brilliant minds have been discussing the existence or the non-existence of the Supreme Being, so that i will not be the last to believe, and you will not be the last to non-believe.

The debate is open and raging.

[WhereIsMyRyeBread]

3 hours ago, Logosone said:

I didn't hear any divine voices. Despite years of sitting in silence. Very interesting altered states. Yes. Mysterious ones even. Were those divine experiences? Never occurred to me.

There's a youtube channel by a fella called Benjamin Bennett. 
He's using the technique sitting and smiling, each time he live streams it for 4 hrs. The live stream probably helps with the self-discipline to not quit the meditation session prematurely. 

Some 300+ sessions, each 4 hrs. (seems kinda crazy ha!)  impressive discipline. He rarely comments. From my limited knowledge of meditation is that you're unlikely to make progress without a mentor.
So you did reach some altered states then? 
 
 

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by WhereIsMyRyeBread

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

That's what I am hoping for. I wonder how long it will take for all those people who believe to overcome their delusions.

By now there should be enough evidence that there is no god. And no evidence that there is a god.

 

Ok, let's start something productive here: Let's imagine for a moment no religion would exist today. Nobody would believe in any god. And no parents would tell their children religions fairytales. People would learn and understand science.

Now in that kind of situation who would get the idea to "invent" god? Would anybody somehow feel: This supernatural whatever talked to me and wants that I pray? I don't think that would happen.

As far as I see most (all?) those believers exist because mostly their parents told them, when they were young and ignorant, that there is a god. And be a good girl/boy otherwise god is angry...

That's why there are mechanisms to get them early before they could think for themselves.

  I was brought up in the christian religion,of my many relatives I don't really know anyone who believes in these nonsenses, when we have conversations concerning that they all agree it is nonsense,  but by now they are cultural christians, to not participate it is to be ostracised to  a certain degree, to not be included. So they go along. I am an Atheist, but when I find myself in Greece for Easter, I go to Church for the Epitafios, and Saturday night we all light the candles and wait outside the church for the priest to proclaim "Christos Anesti" (Χριστός Ανέστη ) , Christ is Risen, and we light up the fireworks and bump the red colored eggs, and next day cook the lamb on a spit over the coals. 

It is not religion,as much as  it is Religious entertainment.