Do you believe in God and why

[NotReallyHere]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The only way he doesn't understand faith is if you haven't actually understood anything he has written over the years this thread has been running. I don't agree with everything he writes, but I certainly accept he knows about faith.

 

We are not supposed to use the laugh emoji to convey that we think a post is bonkers, so I'm quoting you to use in the post.

 

 

He is comparing faith to quantum physics.  He doesn't understand the scientific method and how it distinguishes facts from theories.  That's all I need to know.  If you have been foolish enough to read his nonsense for years, it's your own fault.  I'm not the "bonkers" one.

[Hummin]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That sounds like something Jesus would say if he were here now.

 

People have fallen out of belief in God and into the false religions of greed and ever increasing "productivity" ( which IMO is a nonsense ), and follow fads.

It's a pity they are so consumed by stupid things like "social media", and "celebrity" that they forget we all have to live on planet Earth and need to look after it, not destroy it.

The obvious is often to simple

[save the frogs]

21 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Truly, as you say, it's TERRIFYING that Bobby Dylan received a Swedish Nobel for just being so mediocre, compared to major poets and writers of his generation, who were not recognized. 

 

Thank God, if there even is a God, that Bob's true legacy will have been to further cheapen the significance of the Nobel Prize for literature. 

 

For example, Philip Roth, who was passed over, needs no introduction. 

 

Obviously, the infallible Nobel Committee are not gods, afterall. 

 

 

maybe Nobel prize for literature is a bit much, but his songs are worth a listen for their odd lyrics.

 

Bob Dylan - I Contain Multitudes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jUJW8kfT-8

 

Bob Dylan - False Prophet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIF0gkqvaQ0

 

[save the frogs]

23 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

The following people are, from my limited point of view, enlightened and if not fully and permanently enlightened, then at least very close to it.

I don't know most of the people on the list. 

I looked up Mother Meera. She is a self-proclaimed 'mystic'. 

Sometimes self-proclaimed mystics are charlatans. 

Maybe Robin Williams was "enlightened", even though that word is vague and I don't like using it.

He devoted his life to making people laugh .... so there is less chance that we take life too seriously and become too embittered and end up starting world war 3 and killing each other.

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by save the frogs

[Hummin]

25 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

I don't know most of the people on the list. 

I looked up Mother Meera. She is a self-proclaimed 'mystic'. 

Sometimes self-proclaimed mystics are charlatans. 

Maybe Robin Williams was "enlightened", even though that word is vague and I don't like using it.

He devoted his life to making people laugh .... so there is less chance that we take life too seriously and become too embittered and end up starting world war 3 and killing each other.

 

Robin Williams was bipolar, and bipolar can be quite enlightened in their prime. Stronge senses, clear views and convincing

[Sunmaster]

33 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

I looked up Mother Meera. She is a self-proclaimed 'mystic'. 

Sometimes self-proclaimed mystics are charlatans. 

Not sure where you got that from, but I highly doubt she would self-proclaim that, surely not to make financial gains.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Sunmaster

[bangon04]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

Robin Williams was bipolar, and bipolar can be quite enlightened in their prime. Stronge senses, clear views and convincing

Recommend Stephen Fry on the subject of God and Religion and its effects.

[Hummin]

13 minutes ago, bangon04 said:

Recommend Stephen Fry on the subject of God and Religion and its effects.

Stephen Fry as far I know from what I have seen of him or read, an interesting person who is quite open about his both suffering and great positivity about the advantages of being bipolar.

 

Not every mental challenged persons is religious, but my point was, mental health can make people more convinced and feel stronger than others, as well the opposite. I believe there is alot of mental health in conspiracy theories as well, and it is understandable when you feel outside the society for some reasons, do not fit in, you will find answers that makes you believe many things.

 

However Stephen Fry is an intellectual with high IQ, and he is not bipolar all the time. Most mental challenged is not their diagnose, only when in unbalance and sick

[bangon04]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Stephen Fry as far I know from what I have seen of him or read, an interesting person who is quite open about his both suffering and great positivity about the advantages of being bipolar.

 

Not every mental challenged persons is religious, but my point was, mental health can make people more convinced and feel stronger than others, as well the opposite. I believe there is alot of mental health in conspiracy theories as well, and it is understandable when you feel outside the society for some reasons, do not fit in, you will find answers that makes you believe many things.

 

However Stephen Fry is an intellectual with high IQ, and he is not bipolar all the time. Most mental challenged is not their diagnose, only when in unbalance and sick

His views on the potential evils of (organised) religion are both impressively intellectual and easy for the average non-intellectual to understand.

[BusyB]

I have a teapot I can pray to for anything I wish.

 

It always lets me know: yes, no, or not yet.

 

Without fail.

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, bangon04 said:

His views on the potential evils of (organised) religion are both impressively intellectual and easy for the average non-intellectual to understand.

Agree he is spot on and vel formulated so everyone gets the message

[Sunmaster]

52 minutes ago, bangon04 said:

His views on the potential evils of (organised) religion are both impressively intellectual and easy for the average non-intellectual to understand.

His arguments, although presented in a coherent and eloquent manner, are nonetheless very simplistic. They refer to organized religion and say nothing about spirituality. 

I don't understand why people like him or Richard Dawkins are regarded as authorities about spirituality, when they obviously don't have a clue about it. All they do is criticise religious dogma, which is a completely different pair of shoes.

 

I guess they are quoted so often here by people who also confuse religion with spirituality. 

[Purdey]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Richard Dawkins obviously knows less than he claims to. For a start that claim is nonsense, as in a country like the UK there are several "local" religions.

It would only apply in fundamentalist Islamic countries IMO.

Maybe better to say whatever your parents' religion, so shall you be.

Every child is born atheist. 

[Hummin]

34 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

His arguments, although presented in a coherent and eloquent manner, are nonetheless very simplistic. They refer to organized religion and say nothing about spirituality. 

I don't understand why people like him or Richard Dawkins are regarded as authorities about spirituality, when they obviously don't have a clue about it. All they do is criticise religious dogma, which is a completely different pair of shoes.

 

I guess they are quoted so often here by people who also confuse religion with spirituality. 

Spirituality is not just spirituality, it is also control, money driven, exploiting of confused mental ill needed people who have totally lost direction in life, promises given, money taken, and execute both mentally abuse and sexual abuse. 

 

As well capitalistic driven hence book, membership, volunteer work for the organisation/temple, be it work for free, collect or missionary work. There is alot of brainwashing and control involved by using simple mass succession methods to convince and give people socalled true experiences.

 

A dirty business same as organized religion with same goal. 

 

I say this as a picture of many organizations who run spiritualistic camps and organisations not individuals who manage themselves without exploiting others. 

[Sunmaster]

7 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Spirituality is not just spirituality, it is also control, money driven, exploiting of confused mental ill needed people who have totally lost direction in life, promises given, money taken, and execute both mentally abuse and sexual abuse. 

 

As well capitalistic driven hence book, membership, volunteer work for the organisation/temple, be it work for free, collect or missionary work. There is alot of brainwashing and control involved by using simple mass succession methods to convince and give people socalled true experiences.

 

A dirty business same as organized religion with same goal. 

 

I say this as a picture of many organizations who run spiritualistic camps and organisations not individuals who manage themselves without exploiting others. 

Even if you call them spiritual organisations instead of religious organisations, they remain organisations. They can fall in the same pitfalls.

Spirituality in its true meaning, is the personal connection one has with his inner self. 

[Hummin]

15 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Even if you call them spiritual organisations instead of religious organisations, they remain organisations. They can fall in the same pitfalls.

Spirituality in its true meaning, is the personal connection one has with his inner self. 

Thats exactly what Dawkins and Fry is calling out, not individuals who believe in something!?

Edited February 26, 2023 by Hummin

[Sunmaster]

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Rhats exactly what Dawkins and Fry is calling out, not individuals who believe in something!?

That may be so, but when they are quoted here, it is always in an attempt at disproving or ridiculing spirituality as a whole.

In other words, people here use legitimate criticism of organized religion to discredit spirituality altogether, when they are in fact 2 very different things.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Sunmaster

[Hummin]

16 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

That may be so, but when they are quoted here, it is always in an attempt at disproving or ridiculing spirituality as a whole.

In other words, people here use legitimate criticism of organized religion to discredit spirituality altogether, when they are in fact 2 very different things.

FS people quote Einstein as an expert on religion, even he may have answered a few questions about who created all this, I do not see his answers as any more important than any other individuals. 

 

He might had valid points when it comes to how everything is built and came together alike studying a car, but who was the designer is not given by studying the cars when finished assembled if no signature. Who designed the pyramides? 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Hummin

[Acharn]

I don't believe in a creator god, like the Christian god, but I can't deny there are powers greater than myself in the universe. I accept the Buddhist understanding that Samsara (the physical universe) has no beginning.

[save the frogs]

14 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Not sure where you got that from, but I highly doubt she would self-proclaim that, surely not to make financial gains.

Ok, lets talk about Eckhart Tolle then.

I haven't read his work, just a few quotes.

He claims in his book that meditation can cure illnesses. 

I don't believe it. This appears to be nonsense to me, possibly deliberate on his part. 

 

So the guy with the most charisma and eloquence comes off as the most 'enlightened', even though many of the things these people are saying are factually inaccurate and/or useless. 

 

You can't trust everything anyone says. 

Except Snoopy.

 

[NORDO]

On 2/25/2023 at 11:50 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Once again, you are talking about religion. The title of the thread doesn't mention religion.

You are living a wet dream buckwheat. 

Religion is a set of organized beliefs, practices, and systems that  relate to the belief and worship of a controlling force, such as a personal god or another supernatural being.  Religion often involves cultural beliefs, worldviews, texts, prophecies, revelations, and morals that have spiritual meaning to members of the particular ...

[Sunmaster]

7 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Ok, lets talk about Eckhart Tolle then.

I haven't read his work, just a few quotes.

He claims in his book that meditation can cure illnesses. 

I don't believe it. This appears to be nonsense to me, possibly deliberate on his part. 

 

So the guy with the most charisma and eloquence comes off as the most 'enlightened', even though many of the things these people are saying are factually inaccurate and/or useless. 

 

You can't trust everything anyone says. 

Except Snoopy.

 

I'm not going to try to convince you of the contrary, but my suggestion is that if you want to criticise someone's work, the least you should do is know what you're criticising.

 

"I haven't read anything he wrote, but I think it's all nonsense " is simply not good enough. 

[save the frogs]

21 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

"I haven't read anything he wrote, but I think it's all nonsense " is simply not good enough. 

I didn't say it's all nonsense.

 

[Sunmaster]

11 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

I didn't say it's all nonsense.

 

Good. Its a starting point.

 

In any case, it is no great mystery that meditation can alleviate physical illnesses. Just think how many physical problems arise from unhealthy mental states...depression, anxiety, stress....they all have negative physical manifestations. 

Meditation can help bring the mental side back to health, and then the physical will follow suit. No anxiety = no high blood pressure (for example).

Edited February 26, 2023 by Sunmaster

[save the frogs]

Regarding Eckhart Tolle,

he is encouraging people to examine the inner workings of their mind.

which is a useful thing.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, NORDO said:

You are living a wet dream buckwheat. 

Religion is a set of organized beliefs, practices, and systems that  relate to the belief and worship of a controlling force, such as a personal god or another supernatural being.  Religion often involves cultural beliefs, worldviews, texts, prophecies, revelations, and morals that have spiritual meaning to members of the particular ...

and you, buckwheat, have no idea of what I'm talking about, not that I particularly care what someone that only just came on here has to say about what I believe, or not.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, Acharn said:

I don't believe in a creator god, like the Christian god, but I can't deny there are powers greater than myself in the universe. I accept the Buddhist understanding that Samsara (the physical universe) has no beginning.

You believe that the universe had no beginning, but it has an end ( when all the stars run out of fuel ), and if it has an end ergo it has to have had a beginning, IMO. Many, including myself, believe in the Big Bang, but what caused it, and where did the material to make the universe come from? Unless one believes that matter can just magically appear, one has to believe that it was created somewhere, and by some force- which is what I believe to be "God".

You said " I can't deny there are powers greater than myself in the universe.", so you apparently believe in the same thing, except I call those powers God, and you do not.

 

You, of course, have every right to believe or not believe anything, but given that a scientist that is exploring the origins of the universe  says they don't know 95% of what is out there ( on an Al Jazeera news item few days ago ) how can anyone definitely say that there is no God?

If you don't believe in a creator God, how do YOU think the universe happened? Was there a big mass of gas ( the universe started as a cloud of gas, or so I understand ) just floating around in empty space? Where did it come from? How were the laws of physics created to make the gas become stars and planets? How did humans evolve to have intelligence ( the dinosaurs were not exactly geniuses )? Was it magic? So many questions are raised if one does not believe in a creator God.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, Hummin said:

Spirituality is not just spirituality, it is also control, money driven, exploiting of confused mental ill needed people who have totally lost direction in life, promises given, money taken, and execute both mentally abuse and sexual abuse. 

None of that has anything to do with spirituality, IMO. The most spiritual people had nothing to do with "money", living lives without greed. The most spiritual people lived without trying to get rich off of it.

The people that use spirituality to get rich off others are no more spiritual that the pie I ate for breakfast, IMO.

Edited February 27, 2023 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/26/2023 at 12:46 PM, NotReallyHere said:

He is comparing faith to quantum physics.  He doesn't understand the scientific method and how it distinguishes facts from theories.  That's all I need to know.  If you have been foolish enough to read his nonsense for years, it's your own fault.  I'm not the "bonkers" one.

Apparently you read without comprehension. That is your problem and not one I'm going to attempt to resolve.

Believe whatever you will, as I'm not trying to convert anyone.

 

Foolish? Seriously? if recognising that everyone has a viewpoint and is entitled to it, whatever I may believe, is foolish, then yes, I'm foolish and I take pride in that.

A closed mind learns nothing.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, Purdey said:

Maybe better to say whatever your parents' religion, so shall you be.

Every child is born atheist. 

Rubbish. Even when I was religious it wasn't the one my parents were in.

 

Every child is born knowing nothing, an empty slate that will be written on by everyone that they come to know in life.