Opinion: Mandatory health insurance? Maybe not time to panic just yet.

[BestB]

7 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

I nearly got insurance last year had to have a medical first. Medical showed up quite a few problems so did not bother thinking it may lead to pre existing conditions clause and no pay out if ill. Went home had all the test re done- no problems showed up at all!

Apply with a different company that does not ask for medical check up

[Gecko123]

9 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

It took me a few agents before I found one who would write the policy.  My wife's agent didn't want the extra work.  There is an extra form for an American - banking stuff. 

 

The AIA card says AIA Privilege and the rest is in Thai.

Recommend you contact your insurer and ask for a copy of the policy in English. Years ago, when considering buying an AIA health policy I requested and was provided with an English version of the policy. You may be shocked to discover what is and isn't covered after reading the fine print. For example, while the AIA policy I reviewed may have claimed to provide 1 or 2 MM baht in coverage, upon closer review of the terms and conditions most chronic diseases were capped at maximum payouts in the 250,000-400,000 baht range.

 

 

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, BestB said:

What you have is accident cover not health insurance 

 

AIA health policy for your age would at least 250 000 if not more if offered 

 

AIA policy for 39 year old was 48000-56000 and cut off age from memory 70 ie policy cancels once one turns 70

No not what I have. I suggest I would know. My policy lists the exclusions and an accident policy would not do that it also includes an enhanced critical illness rider.  I'm not an expert ask AIA.

[marcusarelus]

16 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Recommend you contact your insurer and ask for a copy of the policy in English. Years ago, when considering buying an AIA health policy I requested and was provided with an English version of the policy. You may be shocked to discover what is and isn't covered after reading the fine print. For example, while the AIA policy I reviewed may have claimed to provide 1 or 2 MM baht in coverage, upon closer review of the terms and conditions most chronic diseases were capped at maximum payouts in the 250,000-400,000 baht range.

Wife is certified translator and translates official documents. My main insurance is VA I keep the AIA in case of Thai government action. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by marcusarelus

[BestB]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

No not what I have. I suggest I would know. My policy lists the exclusions and an accident policy would not do that it also includes an enhanced critical illness rider.  I'm not an expert ask AIA.

As always you know best. All the best with it????

[Gecko123]

15 hours ago, observer90210 said:

Ok so in other words, if I understand the picture, it's the hospitals overcharging foreigners upto 300% with dual-pricing and cheating, then come the foreigners who leave and do  not want to pay the cheating hospital scam and then comes the mandatory insurance that is not really going to be mandatory....Right ?!...Game of Thrones could not have done better.

Interesting comment. You may have identified another stakeholder who might not welcome mandatory health insurance for foreigners. If private hospitals are overcharging uninsured foreigners who pay out of pocket, you have to wonder whether they would resist the introduction of mandatory insurance. Insurance companies are well known for limiting costs through aggressive billing oversight which would eat into hospital profit margins. Right now, don't most private hospitals require payment up front? They don't have to worry about the uninsured. 

[CaptainJack]

I found this an interesting website.  Personally, I found the articles about the changing expatriate experience globally more interesting then the health insurance piece.  

 

Regardless, I was replying to a PM from a farrang friend from American who sent me this news link. He is making plans to repatriate because of this issue, which he personally sees ss imminent.  Just more  news, whether factual or not.  

 

https://www.internationalinvestment.net/news/4000318/thailand-health-insurance-mandatory-expats

[CaptainJack]

10 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

Interesting comment. You may have identified another stakeholder who might not welcome mandatory health insurance for foreigners. If private hospitals are overcharging uninsured foreigners who pay out of pocket, you have to wonder whether they would resist the introduction of mandatory insurance. Insurance companies are well known for limiting costs through aggressive billing oversight which would eat into hospital profit margins. Right now, don't most private hospitals require payment up front? They don't have to worry about the uninsured. 

As my one other American farrang friend in Thailand has pointed out to be, right now, just about everything you can imagine is being looked at as to the requirements,  rules and regulations to live, work and retire in a foreign country,  and not just Thailand.   This is playing out globally.  

 

To add to your reply Geck123, just about everything,  including the kitchen sink is in the cooker in Thailand right now.  Where it all settles is impossible to predict,  but likely following other regional countries directions.

 

This article adds even more evidence something is coming. 

 

 

[CharlieH]

Flame post removed.

 

[madmen]

Im going to start a thread titled if my auntie had balls she would be my uncle. Bigger chance of that happening than to have every tourist entering Thailand be insured . 

[Gecko123]

4 hours ago, madmen said:

Im going to start a thread titled if my auntie had balls she would be my uncle. Bigger chance of that happening than to have every tourist entering Thailand be insured . 

Thread is about the likelihood of mandatory health insurance for expats, not tourists.

[dotpoom]

How's about just... "Going with the flow".

   If they make it a "must" then get it if you want to stay here....or....don't get it if that's what you want to do.....and leave...simple!

[jonwilly]

15 minutes ago, dotpoom said:

How's about just... "Going with the flow".

   If they make it a "must" then get it if you want to stay here....or....don't get it if that's what you want to do.....and leave...simple!

How true, Play the Game according to Thai rules or Bye Bye.

 

john

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, jonwilly said:

How true, Play the Game according to Thai rules or Bye Bye.

 

john

Be prepared for anything but I'd imagine that if mandatory insurance is made available it will probably be less expensive for those of us who are already paying for insurance here. 

[Gecko123]

46 minutes ago, dotpoom said:

How's about just... "Going with the flow".

   If they make it a "must" then get it if you want to stay here....or....don't get it if that's what you want to do.....and leave...simple!

How about reading the OP more carefully next time. The thread isn't about whether or not to comply with a mandatory medical insurance requirement. It's about the feasibility of imposing such a mandate, and the ripple effects such a mandate might have on Thailand's society and economy.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Gecko123

[TigerandDog]

On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 6:34 PM, baansgr said:

Insurance is impossible almost to obtain for over 69 years. Axa at present do a basic policy for 55-60 for only 15k. Having mandatory insurance would be the death knell for many.lets hope if anything was ever introduced they would allow those unable to obtain insurance another avenue of maybe a security bond of x amount. 

As for affecting the housing market, retirees dont really own that much real estate in Thailand compared to overseas investors so it would have a minimal affect if any at all.

Not entirely accurate with regards to health insurance. Most Thai health insurance companies operate as you say, BUT Pacific Cross are an exception to this. They will issue health insurance up to age 75, with a full medical required for those 65 & over, AND insure you up to age 99, but if you live longer they will continue to insure you. Their premiums are based on age brackets, not annual increases, and are reasonable. They have mentioned in correspondence with a friend of mine that they are compiling a new level of cover for farangs to comply with the soon to be announced compulsory health insurance requirement by Thai Immigration. Based on this, it seems that the powers that be, have already negotiated with Thai Health Insurance companies the requirements and that the health insurance companies have to fall in line with those requirements. Also Pacific Cross have advised that this new level of cover will be less expensive than their current reasonable rates.

Edited April 18, 2019 by TigerandDog

[MadMuhammad]

On 4/16/2019 at 7:13 PM, BestB said:

$1200 for a 56 year old Is the cheapest and crappiest policy, most likely less than 1 million baht cover with not much covered . 

 

Anything decent for a 56 year old would be almost double that. 

 

My cover for early 40 is 1500 euro, almost 60000 baht and it does not include outpatient 

Wow. Sounds expensive. 

I’m covered for 5mil inpatient blah blah blah, no outpatient or dental for 34K a year. 41 years old 

[unamazedloso]

I cant get coverage. I have a hepatic issue and liver cancer aint far off. I own a house, land, cars, bikes, tractors, excavotors, have kids, etc. However i also race motorcycles.

Whats the point of insuring me? I cant get coverage and the value of everything i own is not enough to relocate. I have the money to take care of myself and my family. If they implement it i will ship everything i own here to Aus and then figure out what to do as an oldish man unable to find work i reckon forced to start a new life in a better country..

I wish i had never decided to live here in thailand. Sold houses and cars in aus to move over thinking that my life wont be so long therefore its best to stay close to the wifes family for the kids so my wifes not alone in a farang country. Big mistake!! To add to that my wifes family arent worth it anyway. My wife sold her land handed down from the family and the family stole the money. Unbelievable! They should need the insurance because if i ever see them......!

Anyone who buys a condo here needs insurance. They are obviously stupid like i once was.. 

Dont invest in anything here unless they are investing in you people!!

[rwill]

There is already a retirement visa that requires medical insurance.  This is a link to plans for it.  I expect these plans will be the same required if they decide to make it mandatory for everyone.  (When looking at these plans some of the maximums are for the year and others per disability.  That makes a big difference.)

https://longstay.tgia.org/

 

If you are under 65 David Shield offers a really good affordable plan.

 

65 and under you can get Aetna Opal plan for very cheap rates coverage is not as good though.

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by rwill

[topt]

28 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

Wow. Sounds expensive. 

I’m covered for 5mil inpatient blah blah blah, no outpatient or dental for 34K a year. 41 years old 

One key is you are only 41. Rates are considerably higher as you get older.

Secondly 5m baht coverage is relatively low - most International health insurance has minimum $500k (15 million baht) and the David Shield policy is $1.2 million.

 

At your age the David Shield policy is around 40k so not much more for a possible big jump in overall coverage however also at your age hopefully not an issue.

[Gecko123]

What Thailand needs to realize is that when those guy's put roots down they were playing by the rules which were in place at the time. Suddenly moving the goal posts on guys who have made substantial investments here - both in financial and familial terms - and who have fewer options available to them because they are older and on fixed incomes, does seem to be somewhat unfair.

 

Maybe Thailand doesn't give a rat's ass about fairness to foreigners, but when they talk about possibly imposing requirements involving thousands of dollars (medical insurance/higher financial guarantees), many guys who cannot meet these retroactive requirements will undoubtably have Thai families here who are dependent on them. Both unable to meet these newly imposed requirements here or support their Thai families above the poverty level or meet immigration requirements for their Thai spouse back home, some of these guys may be forced into making the stark choice of abandoning their Thai families here. If and when that happens, there's sure to be an outcry from the Thai people, and maybe the authorities will start to realize their policies are having ripple effects on Thai people as well.

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Gecko123

[justin case]

can I farang not drop in a government hospital and take their service?

[superal]

49 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

What Thailand needs to realize is that when those guy's put roots down they were playing by the rules which were in place at the time. Suddenly moving the goal posts on guys who have made substantial investments here - both in financial and familial terms - and who have fewer options available to them because they are older and on fixed incomes, does seem to be somewhat unfair.

 

Maybe Thailand doesn't give a rat's ass about fairness to foreigners, but when they talk about possibly imposing requirements involving thousands of dollars (medical insurance/higher financial guarantees), many guys who cannot meet these retroactive requirements will undoubtably have Thai families here who are dependent on them. Both unable to meet these newly imposed requirements here or support their Thai families above the poverty level or meet immigration requirements for their Thai spouse back home, some of these guys may be forced into making the stark choice of abandoning their Thai families here. If and when that happens, there's sure to be an outcry from the Thai people, and maybe the authorities will start to realize their policies are having ripple effects on Thai people as well.

 

Reckon you copied a post I made a couple of months ago ???? , cos exactly the same opinion as me . For me a foreigner who has been married to a Thai partner for 5 years or more , built the family home and supports the family , should be privileged to Government hospital treatment at the same rates as a Thai . Especially important if mid 60s and up . Medical insurance at my age ( nearly 72 ) is available but at an unrealistic price for me . OK if I was 10k pounds a month but I am far from that . For the guys who do not live here UK travel insurance can be had at a reasonable fee including previous illnesses , up to 5 months can be had .  I am guessing that there are more uninsured foreigners here than insured .

[superal]

7 minutes ago, justin case said:

can I farang not drop in a government hospital and take their service?

Yes they can but that was debated a few weeks ago when I made a post about dual pricing . It was confirmed by a friends wife who worked in the hospital that I attended . Having said that the bill was still reasonable if compared to a private hospital . I read  here also that government medicines have sky rocketed and much cheaper to by from a local pharmacy

[Thaidream]

Medical care is a human right- not a privilege but something essential to life which is also a human right.

 

At present, for profit hospitals; Big Pharma and Insurance are locked together to make the highest profit they can off another person's suffering.  This cannot and should not be allowed to continue- not only in Thailand but everywhere.

 

The solution in Thailand is really simple- everyone who enters the country via the purchase of any type of ticket can have xx amount added to that ticket to cover potential medical issues.

 

Anyone one living permanently in Thailand on  yearly extensions can purchase into the Thai Social Security system at xx amount per month and be covered.  This will increase the amount in the Social Security Fund and provide universal coverage.

 

Every Industrialised country in the World has a single payer system except the USA   America is currently  attempting to move to a single payer system in which there is no need  for private insurance and drug costs and hospital costs  are controlled. This will be fought by greedy hospitals and Big Pharma who want to profit from others misery.

 

Thailand in the past has followed the America model but it id a failing system.  Already , in Thailand , it is well know private hospitals are ripping off the public with extortion prices.

 

American healthcare is the costliest in the World but not always the best.  In fact, in some Us states it is impossible to even find out the actual cost of a procedure due to the insidious relationships between hospitals and insurance.  Thailand would do well to not allow this type of system to even exist.

 

The only answer is  what is called medicare for all-similar to what the EU and UK have- medical care is non profit- Thailand has a Social Security system- which could easily allow long stay foreigners to buy in at a reasonable rate.  As of 2019- the US rate for Part B Medicate (Social Security) is $135 per month which includes  in patient and out patient.  

 

Certainly Thailand could make the premium less than the American rate and provide universal coverage. They could request private hospitals volunteer to honor the  Government rate or even develop an added policy that can be used at any hospital.They key to all healthcare is that it is a right, not something to be used to make a profit by  hospitals; medical professionals or Pharmaceutical companies.

 

 

[pierrenoel]

there are health insurance thai compagny who provide 400,000 inpatient and 40,000 outpatient already untill 90 years old but small coverage and hight price.EX: 75 years old 120,000 baht or 61 years old 90,000

[Odysseus123]

Just now, Thaidream said:

Medical care is a human right- not a privilege but something essential to life which is also a human right.

 

At present, for profit hospitals; Big Pharma and Insurance are locked together to make the highest profit they can off another person's suffering.  This cannot and should not be allowed to continue- not only in Thailand but everywhere.

 

The solution in Thailand is really simple- everyone who enters the country via the purchase of any type of ticket can have xx amount added to that ticket to cover potential medical issues.

 

Anyone one living permanently in Thailand on  yearly extensions can purchase into the Thai Social Security system at xx amount per month and be covered.  This will increase the amount in the Social Security Fund and provide universal coverage.

 

Every Industrialised country in the World has a single payer system except the USA   America is currently  attempting to move to a single payer system in which there is no need  for private insurance and drug costs and hospital costs  are controlled. This will be fought by greedy hospitals and Big Pharma who want to profit from others misery.

 

Thailand in the past has followed the America model but it id a failing system.  Already , in Thailand , it is well know private hospitals are ripping off the public with extortion prices.

 

American healthcare is the costliest in the World but not always the best.  In fact, in some Us states it is impossible to even find out the actual cost of a procedure due to the insidious relationships between hospitals and insurance.  Thailand would do well to not allow this type of system to even exist.

 

The only answer is  what is called medicare for all-similar to what the EU and UK have- medical care is non profit- Thailand has a Social Security system- which could easily allow long stay foreigners to buy in at a reasonable rate.  As of 2019- the US rate for Part B Medicate (Social Security) is $135 per month which includes  in patient and out patient.  

 

Certainly Thailand could make the premium less than the American rate and provide universal coverage. They could request private hospitals volunteer to honor the  Government rate or even develop an added policy that can be used at any hospital.They key to all healthcare is that it is a right, not something to be used to make a profit by  hospitals; medical professionals or Pharmaceutical companies.

 

 

Actually..medical care is not a human right....and "essential to life" is not a human right either.

 

In fact it could be argued that there are no such thing as "human rights" only "civil rights"

 

However,it is certainly essential to good governance-as Thomas Hobbes once observed that otherwise "life was poore, nasty,brutal and shorte.."

 

As it still is in many countries.

[ianezy0]

On 4/16/2019 at 6:34 PM, baansgr said:

Insurance is impossible almost to obtain for over 69 years. Axa at present do a basic policy for 55-60 for only 15k. Having mandatory insurance would be the death knell for many.lets hope if anything was ever introduced they would allow those unable to obtain insurance another avenue of maybe a security bond of x amount. 

As for affecting the housing market, retirees dont really own that much real estate in Thailand compared to overseas investors so it would have a minimal affect if any at all.

Try Pacific Cross. Although you =will have to complete a medical first.

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Actually..medical care is not a human right....and "essential to life" is not a human right either.

 

In fact it could be argued that there are no such thing as "human rights" only "civil rights"

 

However,it is certainly essential to good governance-as Thomas Hobbes once observed that otherwise "life was poore, nasty,brutal and shorte.."

 

As it still is in many countries.

Article 25 of the United Nations' 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services."

 

The United State Constitution; British Common Law and every Constitution I have red indicates a person has a right to life and therefore basic life saving medical care is essential to life.

 

The UK; EU; Australia; Japan and every major industrialised country  except the USA consider  medical care a human right and that is why they have National Healthcare systems.

 

For profit medicine; Insurance Companies; Big Pharma exist for only one reason- to make money off a person's suffering. Even the USA is starting to fight back against  the concept of for profit medicine.  Thailand would do well to  go to  non profit medical care for all while it is still relatively inexpensive to do so- otherwise it's citizens and us will be trapped in a system in which the poor die and the rich live.

[BestB]

2 hours ago, MadMuhammad said:

Wow. Sounds expensive. 

I’m covered for 5mil inpatient blah blah blah, no outpatient or dental for 34K a year. 41 years old 

Wait for next year increase ( of course depends on the company ) I started on 38 at 40, 3 years later up to 56, but my cover is 40-50 million baht