Pattaya Versus DaNang and the winner is?

[KhunHeineken]

39 minutes ago, wisperone said:

I agree with alot of the things you say... but my post about the hotel wasn't a Vietnam vs Thailand comparison. It was about a law on the books in Vietnam. Like everything else involving laws whether someone thinks they are pertinent or not... if someone breaks it, theres a potential for them to be caught and arrested. Like they say in Thailand, "Up to you".

 

I was speaking with a guy in Saigon back a few months ago who was doing something he thought was fine, and he and 72 other people, mostly Viets, were arrested and jailed. He spent 5 months and wasn't even allowed a phone call for the first two/three months. His family back in Europe thought he was dead. He was finally released on bail..and was awaiting a trial some more months down the road...this happened last May. I won't go into with the jail situation, but it isn't a place I would want to be. Get arrested, you have no rights.

 

Saigon you won't see police officers...Hanoi they are everywhere.

I would really like to know what that guy was up to.  It sounds like he was up to something that I would have no sympathy for.  As he was arrested with a lot of other people, maybe a boiler room scam, or similar.

 

I wouldn't want to go to a Thai jail, or a Vietnamese jail.  In fact, any jail for that matter.

 

As far as "laws" on the books, prostitution is illegal in Thailand, yet, look at the place.  

 

Once again, it goes back to what I was said, the Vietnamese want to earn a dollar from you, not extort or steal a dollar from you.  Big difference.   

[sanemax]

5 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

On the subject of road safety, I agree with the member who said the roads are chaos in HCMC, but then again, they are in Bangkok, as well.  In the tourist areas, the roads are fine. 

 

If we are talking about the roads in Danang, I have no problem with the roads there. 

 

Here's a Youtube clip of Beach Road in Danang.  This is pretty much my experience.  Not busy, not high speed. 

 

Looks safe to me. 

 

Also, taxis are that plentiful in Vietnam, and so so cheap, an expat wouldn't even need to own a vehicle, which may be something appealing to elderly expats. 

 

 

Although that is in a scarcely populated area , they are building new high rise hotels all along the beach front and have built new roads to accommodate all the future traffic (as seen in the video) .

   I did have a walk along that road and beach front  and its a nice big open road , the whole island seems to be being redevepoled and the town planners have installed big wide open roads .

  The roads in the city are the congested roads 

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

In the mean time, nothing much changes.  You get a 3 month multi entry visa that can be extended for another 3 months, INSIDE VIETNAM, up to 3 times.  That's a total of 1 year anyway. 

Then what happens?

 

I'm not interested in these short-term options. I want a one-year stamp that I know can be renewed easily and cheaply, by me without the assistance of agents or go-betweens, once a year.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Then what happens?

 

I'm not interested in these short-term options. I want a one-year stamp that I know can be renewed easily and cheaply, by me without the assistance of agents or go-betweens, once a year.

Then you start over and no guarantee what the start over rules will be by then. No residence security in that but at least it's much much less onerous than Thailand's current retirement program where there also is no residence security. For retirement you can do Cambodia for serial annual stays for pay without needing to leave the country but of course the conditions can change anytime on that too. 

[DrTuner]

26 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I'm not interested in these short-term options. I want a one-year stamp that I know can be renewed easily and cheaply, by me without the assistance of agents or go-betweens, once a year.

And I would like to know if there's any chance of permanent residency. Being a perpetual tourist is for nomads.

[sanemax]

7 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

On the subject of road safety, I agree with the member who said the roads are chaos in HCMC, but then again, they are in Bangkok, as well.  In the tourist areas, the roads are fine. 

 

If we are talking about the roads in Danang, I have no problem with the roads there. 

 

Here's a Youtube clip of Beach Road in Danang.  This is pretty much my experience.  Not busy, not high speed. 

 

Looks safe to me. 

 

Also, taxis are that plentiful in Vietnam, and so so cheap, an expat wouldn't even need to own a vehicle, which may be something appealing to elderly expats. 

 

 

And there is also 

 

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, KittenKong said:

Then what happens?

 

I'm not interested in these short-term options. I want a one-year stamp that I know can be renewed easily and cheaply, by me without the assistance of agents or go-betweens, once a year.

So, you get a 1 year retirement visa in Thailand, and have to report every 90 days, and that is ok for you, but to get a 3 month visa in Vietnam, and then give your passport and some small money to an agent every 90 days, is viewed as a short term option. 

 

Most of the Vietnam visa system is through agents.  It's just the way it is.  Most of the travel agent shops double as visa agents.  They are businesses, offering Vietnam visa services.  You could do it yourself, but agents are so cheap, why bother? 

 

When I look at how quick the they pushed through the new visa laws in Thailand, it makes me wonder which is more short term, Thailand, or Vietnam.  So, I'm not sure why you think a visa that says "1 year" gives you any surety about anything. 

 

Anyway, after your 12 months are up, you do have to leave the country, but it is a visa run, out and back in a day, and you start again. 

 

The 1 year multi entry visas are still available for US citizens. They have suspended them for everyone else, but they will be on offer again soon.

 

If you like, there is the option for a 2 year Residency Card, which you can also get through an agent, if this is more suitable for you.

 

A lot of expats in Vietnam are married to a Vietnamese National.  They get a 5 year multi entry visa for around $50USD.  Now compare that to requirements for a married expat in Thailand and you can see why the Vietnam expats have a laugh at the Thailand expats.    

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Then you start over and no guarantee what the start over rules will be by then. No residence security in that but at least it's much much less onerous than Thailand's current retirement program where there also is no residence security. For retirement you can do Cambodia for serial annual stays for pay without needing to leave the country but of course the conditions can change anytime on that too. 

There are no start over rules.  You pay your money and get your visa.  

 

Vietnam is not rejecting people like Thailand is.  Vietnam is welcoming people. 

 

There is no hidden "tricks" in their visa system.  They have a very board base, pay as you go, visa system. 

 

There is a 2 year Residency Card for people who think a stamp or a sticker or a card gives them more surety over continuous short visas.  Otherwise, keep buying and extending visas like you top up your mobile phone with scratch cards.  It's that easy.    

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Then you start over and no guarantee what the start over rules will be by then. No residence security in that but at least it's much much less onerous than Thailand's current retirement program where there also is no residence security.

The Thai system looks secure enough to me. It has been in place largely unchanged for decades. The extension obtained is clearly defined in law, is valid for one year and is stamped in plain English on my passport for exactly what it is.

To me this seems quite different to what is on offer in Vietnam.

[KhunHeineken]

57 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

And I would like to know if there's any chance of permanent residency. Being a perpetual tourist is for nomads.

All foreigners are perpetual tourists in Thailand. 

 

Some one on a 1 year retirement visa has no more rights than someone on a 30 day visa exempt stamp.

 

Vietnam offers a 2 year Residency Card, but like I said, a lot of expats are married to Vietnamese Nationals, so they get a 5 year multi entry visa for around $50USD, which is a great deal. 

[madmen]

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, you get a 1 year retirement visa in Thailand, and have to report every 90 days, and that is ok for you, but to get a 3 month visa in Vietnam, and then give your passport and some small money to an agent every 90 days, is viewed as a short term option. 

 

Most of the Vietnam visa system is through agents.  It's just the way it is.  Most of the travel agent shops double as visa agents.  They are businesses, offering Vietnam visa services.  You could do it yourself, but agents are so cheap, why bother? 

 

When I look at how quick the they pushed through the new visa laws in Thailand, it makes me wonder which is more short term, Thailand, or Vietnam.  So, I'm not sure why you think a visa that says "1 year" gives you any surety about anything. 

 

Anyway, after your 12 months are up, you do have to leave the country, but it is a visa run, out and back in a day, and you start again. 

 

The 1 year multi entry visas are still available for US citizens. They have suspended them for everyone else, but they will be on offer again soon.

 

If you like, there is the option for a 2 year Residency Card, which you can also get through an agent, if this is more suitable for you.

 

A lot of expats in Vietnam are married to a Vietnamese National.  They get a 5 year multi entry visa for around $50USD.  Now compare that to requirements for a married expat in Thailand and you can see why the Vietnam expats have a laugh at the Thailand expats.    

"you can see why the Vietnam expats have a laugh at the Thailand expats." 

 

Now thats a laugh.  I can assure you Thai expats are having the last laugh..after all they are still living in Thailand. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

There are no start over rules.  

...

Of course there are. You need to leave the country, right?

You have no idea if next year they might crack down on serial visa stayers, do you?

I'm just keeping it real. There is no long term residency security there doing that. 

[Jingthing]

 

3 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

The Thai system looks secure enough to me. It has been in place largely unchanged for decades. The extension obtained is clearly defined in law, is valid for one year and is stamped in plain English on my passport for exactly what it is.

To me this seems quite different to what is on offer in Vietnam.

The requirements are massively more expensive and onerous for the Thailand system than for Vietnam. At the end of the day, you're getting a similar thing. A limited stay with ZERO guarantees for next time.

[KittenKong]

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, you get a 1 year retirement visa in Thailand, and have to report every 90 days, and that is ok for you, but to get a 3 month visa in Vietnam, and then give your passport and some small money to an agent every 90 days, is viewed as a short term option. 

Yes, it is. I can do my 90-day reporting online if I want. If I travel several times a year (which I do) I could easily not need to do the 90-day reporting at all. Even if I do it in person it only takes me a couple of minutes. It really is no big deal for me.

 

9 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Most of the Vietnam visa system is through agents.  It's just the way it is.

I dont like agents so I will pass on that.

 

9 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Anyway, after your 12 months are up, you do have to leave the country, but it is a visa run, out and back in a day, and you start again. 

I would rather leave when I want to, not when someone else wants me to. Thailand offers that option.

 

10 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The 1 year multi entry visas are still available for US citizens. They have suspended them for everyone else, but they will be on offer again soon.

When it happens I may reconsider. Until then a Thai extension appears to be better and cheaper and easier to me.

 

5 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Vietnam is not rejecting people like Thailand is.

Thailand may be rejecting some people, but it is not rejecting me. Nor is it very likely to, I think. If it does I will think again.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, madmen said:

"you can see why the Vietnam expats have a laugh at the Thailand expats." 

 

Now thats a laugh.  I can assure you Thai expats are having the last laugh..after all they are still living in Thailand. 

I'm not laughing but I definitely prefer living in Thailand to living in Vietnam. Others may feel differently. There are no right and wrongs answers for things like that. 

[DrTuner]

4 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

All foreigners are perpetual tourists in Thailand. 

 

Some one on a 1 year retirement visa has no more rights than someone on a 30 day visa exempt stamp.

 

Vietnam offers a 2 year Residency Card, but like I said, a lot of expats are married to Vietnamese Nationals, so they get a 5 year multi entry visa for around $50USD, which is a great deal. 

Except the ones on PR, yes they are and it sucks. Got any info on the 2y residency card, is there a Vietnam Visa Forum?

[KhunHeineken]

28 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

The Thai system looks secure enough to me. It has been in place largely unchanged for decades. The extension obtained is clearly defined in law, is valid for one year and is stamped in plain English on my passport for exactly what it is.

To me this seems quite different to what is on offer in Vietnam.

The Thai system may seem secure, until they move the goal posts.  Such as, the amount of money needed, and seasoning times.  Those on the 800,000 baht method have already lost use of 400,000 baht of their money, perpetually.  All of this makes for an expense visa over 12 months.

 

I know it's difficult for some to accept there are countries in the region that offer a very easy and cheap visa system, when compared to Thailand, but that doesn't mean they are unstable.  

 

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by KhunHeineken

[DrTuner]

9 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Vietnam is not rejecting people like Thailand is.  Vietnam is welcoming people. 

Give it a few years. Thailand was also welcoming people a few decades ago.

[KittenKong]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

The requirements are massively more expensive and onerous for the Thailand system than for Vietnam.

My retirement extension costs me 1900B per year. I see nothing in Vietnam at anything like that sort of cost.

 

Onerous? Hardly. Money in bank. One bank letter. A couple of forms and photocopies. Less than one hour spent in Jomtien immigration every year. It's nothing to me.

[Jingthing]

Just now, KhunHeineken said:

The Thai system may seem secure, until they move the goal posts.  Such as, the amount of money needed, and seasoning times.  Those on the 800,000 baht method have already lost use of 400,000 baht of their money, perpetually.  All of this makes for an expense visa ever 12 months.

 

I know it's difficult for some to accept there are countries in the region that offer a very easy and cheap visa system, when compared to Thailand, but that doesn't mean they are unstable.  

 

 

I totally agree. For retirement, both Vietnam and Cambodia massively trump Thailand on ease of yearly stays. But none of them offer real long term residence security. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

My retirement extension costs me 1900B per year. I see nothing in Vietnam at anything like that sort of cost.

 

Onerous? Hardly. Money in bank. One bank letter. A couple of forms and photocopies. Less than one hour spent in Jomtien immigration every year. It's nothing to me.

I didn't think you were going to play that silly game.

It doesn't cost you only 1900 baht and you bloody well know it. Why try to deceive people?

You know perfectly well what I was referring to.

THE REAL COSTS

Bank method

Income method

 

I don't see any point in further discussion on the matter if the basis of your argument is based on disingenuous obfuscation.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Jingthing

[KittenKong]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

The Thai system may seem secure, until they move the goal posts.  Such as, the amount of money needed, and seasoning times.  Those on the 800,000 baht method have already lost use of 400,000 baht of their money, perpetually.  All of this makes for an expense visa ever 12 months.

My cash has been on time deposit here untouched for years. I expect it to stay that way indefinitely. Not an issue for me and, as it pays interest, not expensive either.

[DrTuner]

9 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

The Thai system looks secure enough to me. It has been in place largely unchanged for decades. The extension obtained is clearly defined in law, is valid for one year and is stamped in plain English on my passport for exactly what it is.

Umm no, not a law. Police orders subject to change any time at the pleasure of the immigration police. Just about as secure as Russian roulette. Immigration law doesn't govern visa types or extensions, that's MFA and Immigration.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I totally agree. For retirement, both Vietnam and Cambodia massively trump Thailand on ease of yearly stays. But none of them offer real long term residence security. 

Or healthcare beyond a cut finger. 

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, KittenKong said:

My cash has been on time deposit here untouched for years. I expect it to stay that way indefinitely. Not an issue for me and, as it pays interest, not expensive either.

Mine has too.  I put 16k in when I got here and have withdrawn interest every year since.  Use the income method and not put any in or go home once every two years and use the O-A method.  Overwhelming not onerous to me. 

[KittenKong]

Just now, Jingthing said:

I didn't think you were going to play that silly game.

It doesn't cost you only 1900 baht and you bloody well know it. Why try to deceive people?

You know perfectly well what I was referring to.

THE REAL COSTS

Bank method

Income method

 

I rejected the income method years ago due to the high fee imposed by the UK consulate.

 

So I use the deposit method. The total yearly cost to me is 1900B plus 100B for the bank letter (previously free) plus perhaps 50B for photos and photocopies.

 

There is no other cost at all, apart from one hour of my time. Re-entry permits are an optional extra that would cost at most 3900B, or 1000B per trip if only a couple of trips are made. If I like I dont have to leave at all.

 

And on top of that I get 2.5% interest, tax-free, on the deposit. Previously I was getting as much as 4+% on the same deposit but those days are gone.

 

Looks like a fair deal to me.

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Umm no, not a law. Police orders subject to change any time at the pleasure of the immigration police. Just about as secure as Russian roulette. Immigration law doesn't govern visa types or extensions, that's MFA and Immigration.

1 change in seasoning requirements for 3000 days, for expats keeping money in the bank.  Are those odds like Russian roulette?  

[KhunHeineken]

1 minute ago, DrTuner said:

Except the ones on PR, yes they are and it sucks. Got any info on the 2y residency card, is there a Vietnam Visa Forum?

Care to give a percentage of foreigners in Thailand that have obtained Permanent Residency? 

 

Last I heard, there was only like a dozen foreigners, nation wide, that qualified for permanent residency in Thailand. 

 

I believe the 2 year Temporary Residency Card is more to do with investing or having a Vietnam Limited Company.  I believe there is also a a Permanent Residency Card.  These are not to common with expats because of how easy and cheap the other visas are.

 

https://vietnamvisaonentry.com/general-infomation/vietnam-temporary-residence-card-2/

[KittenKong]

7 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Umm no, not a law. Police orders subject to change any time at the pleasure of the immigration police. Just about as secure as Russian roulette. Immigration law doesn't govern visa types or extensions, that's MFA and Immigration.

Hair-splitting. Laws can also be changed at any time at the pleasure of the government or even the head of state. My retirement extension stamp in my passport clearly gives me the right to stay here for up to one year for retirement purposes. I see nothing in Vietnam similar to this. When they get something similar I could easily be tempted to try it.

 

With or without a retirement extension, I or any other foreigner could be forced to leave Thailand overnight on a whim of the government, but that applies to anyone who is not Thai. It also applies in every other country in world including Vietnam.

[KhunHeineken]

16 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

My retirement extension costs me 1900B per year. I see nothing in Vietnam at anything like that sort of cost.

 

Onerous? Hardly. Money in bank. One bank letter. A couple of forms and photocopies. Less than one hour spent in Jomtien immigration every year. It's nothing to me.

You are getting 1.5% on money that should be earning a lot more for, and you have lost use of 400,000 baht, perpetually.

 

That makes a Thai retirement visa a lot more expensive than around $400USD for a 1 year Vietnam visa, with no other requirements to meet.