UK PM May looking at second Brexit vote options if talks fail - Telegraph

[aright]

4 hours ago, geoffbezoz said:

Your comments I basically agree with but your final paragraph encapsulates the issues within parliament and the country as a whole.  You are correct that no longer Britain  has any power or influence, well not to any major degree, yet there are those that insist on living in the past and are convinced that Great Britain still has an Empire and act accordingly. They think, erroneously, that leaving the EU will somehow get the country into a time warp and back to the 19th century.

Certainly I would agree that the UK does not have the global power and influence, it once had,  that the USA and China currently does have, but what countries do? The UK is the fifth largest economy in the world with a long history of monetary discipline, export competitiveness, favourable cost control and some degree of fiscal discipline. How could we be so high in the economic table without a favourable degree of power and influence?

I know of no one in the UK who wants to return to 19th century politics or influence. 

 

 

[Loiner]

4 hours ago, stephenterry said:

And that is a major issue not readily resolved, and until that day, it is sensible not to leave. What I cannot comprehend is May's insistence on delivering her deal, when no-one wants it. And the current UK mood has turned away from the belief that brexit would benefit Britain, as it is clearly not the case.

 

And on another point, leaver posters on here think that everyone outside this forum agrees with leaving the EU, without accepting that leavers compared to the UK population in total (17m/65m = 26%) are in a minority.  

 

That's not to knock leavers, because a sizeable minority (as are remainers) make valid points about the governance of the EU, which really should be addressed by a stronger government while Britain is in the EU, with a voting power, influence, and a veto.

 

Outside the EU, Britain has no power or influence. If we was the size of the USA, that would be a different story.

 

16m/65m = 24.6% which is an even smaller minority of Remainers. Why do you keep using 65m?

 

The UK voting power in the EU? 1 vs 27 others - surely you jest?

 

What sort of power and influence would you like the UK to exert over other countries outside the EU? Enforcing on them your laws and regulations; restricting trade; uncontrolled migration; external taxation; political domination; all that sort of thing? Nah, not into that type of socialist utopia.

[geoffbezoz]

8 minutes ago, aright said:

Certainly I would agree that the UK does not have the global power and influence, it once had,  that the USA and China currently does have, but what countries do? The UK is the fifth largest economy in the world with a long history of monetary discipline, export competitiveness, favourable cost control and some degree of fiscal discipline. How could we be so high in the economic table without a favourable degree of power and influence?

I know of no one in the UK who wants to return to 19th century politics or influence. 

 

 

You must be a Brexiteer living in the past perhaps. 5th largest economy, dream on. Just another one harking back to past glories. The UK are slowly slipping down the list apparently

 

http://statisticstimes.com/economy/projected-world-gdp-ranking.php

[stephenterry]

9 minutes ago, Loiner said:

16m/65m = 24.6% which is an even smaller minority of Remainers. Why do you keep using 65m?

 

The UK voting power in the EU? 1 vs 27 others - surely you jest?

 

What sort of power and influence would you like the UK to exert over other countries outside the EU? Enforcing on them your laws and regulations; restricting trade; uncontrolled migration; external taxation; political domination; all that sort of thing? Nah, not into that type of socialist utopia.

I really don't understand where you're at.  Maybe some other poster could explain that to benefit Britain, the total population should be considered, not just the leavers.

 

As to being in the EU the UK has a seat at the table, and has the voting power to veto any proposal made by any other EU country, as does the other countries.

 

I never mentioned any country outside the Union. If Brexit happens I'm sure your questions would be answered by the 'leavers union', because it seems they're hell bent on destroying Britain.   

[Loiner]

5 hours ago, geoffbezoz said:

Your comments I basically agree with but your final paragraph encapsulates the issues within parliament and the country as a whole.  You are correct that no longer Britain  has any power or influence, well not to any major degree, yet there are those that insist on living in the past and are convinced that Great Britain still has an Empire and act accordingly. They think, erroneously, that leaving the EU will somehow get the country into a time warp and back to the 19th century.

Living in the past - another Remainer fallacy that you all latch on to but don't understand. It is precisely the past that Leavers want to be released from, specifically the past 40 odd years. Brexit is all about the future as a free trading economy with the whole world, not being bound by the restrictive and protectionist EU Federation. If there is to be any protection to trade, it must be for the benefit of the UK not some other European peasant economy.
Brexit is the future, for the UK to survive and thrive with trading partners in the big world. 

[geoffbezoz]

3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Living in the past - another Remainer fallacy that you all latch on to but don't understand. It is precisely the past that Leavers want to be released from, specifically the past 40 odd years. Brexit is all about the future as a free trading economy with the whole world, not being bound by the restrictive and protectionist EU Federation. If there is to be any protection to trade, it must be for the benefit of the UK not some other European peasant economy.
Brexit is the future, for the UK to survive and thrive with trading partners in the big world. 

100% delusional.

[stephenterry]

3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Living in the past - another Remainer fallacy that you all latch on to but don't understand. It is precisely the past that Leavers want to be released from, specifically the past 40 odd years. Brexit is all about the future as a free trading economy with the whole world, not being bound by the restrictive and protectionist EU Federation. If there is to be any protection to trade, it must be for the benefit of the UK not some other European peasant economy.
Brexit is the future, for the UK to survive and thrive with trading partners in the big world. 

The UK at present has free trading agreements with over 50 countries outside the EU. Whether a better deal could be obtained by brexit is pure speculation. In other words, it would be madness to tear it all up and begin again. TM knows this, but insists it's the right thing to do. Which is the ultimate lie to pacify Brexiteers. 

 

And, BTW, the EU food standards, which are followed by the UK is a hell of a lot higher than the USA. Do a deal with Trump and have shedloads of chlorinated chickends dumped on our doorstep. 

[aright]

8 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

The UK at present has free trading agreements with over 50 countries outside the EU. Whether a better deal could be obtained by brexit is pure speculation. In other words, it would be madness to tear it all up and begin again. TM knows this, but insists it's the right thing to do. Which is the ultimate lie to pacify Brexiteers. 

 

And, BTW, the EU food standards, which are followed by the UK is a hell of a lot higher than the USA. Do a deal with Trump and have shedloads of chlorinated chickends dumped on our doorstep. 

What's wrong with chlorinated chickens On my last trip to the USA there were no reports of people dieing or growing a third arm as a result of growth hormones or chlorinated chickens.

Part of EU standards also include the welfare of animals, something Garden of Edeners ignore.

 

Abuse of animals rife on farms across Europe, auditors warn

Farm animal abuses are widespread in the European Union, with pig tail docking, long-distance transport and slaughterhouse stunning all areas of immediate concern, according to a report out this week.

Intensive farms are particularly problematic, the report by the European Court of Auditors (ECA) reveals, with economic interests often trumping welfare rules. “Our audit and other reports show it’s difficult to introduce improvements on intensive farms and enforce laws,” Janusz Wojciechowski, the ECA member responsible for the report, told the Guardian.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/14/farm-animal-abuses-widespread-across-europe-warn-auditors

 

 

 

 

[tebee]

17 minutes ago, aright said:

What's wrong with chlorinated chickens On my last trip to the USA there were no reports of people dieing or growing a third arm as a result of growth hormones or chlorinated chickens.

Part of EU standards also include the welfare of animals, something Garden of Edeners ignore.

 

 

The US reports higher rates of illness from foodborne illness than in the UK. Annually, 14.7% (48m) of the US population suffer from an illness, versus 1.5% (1m) in the UK. This is nearly ten times the percentage of population.

 

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report around 380 deaths in the US each year attributed to foodborne salmonella poisoning. The most recent epidemiological lab data from Public Health England, 2006 to 2015 shows no deaths in England and Wales from salmonella. Salmonella food poisoning is most commonly caused by consumption of contaminated food of animal origin, such as beef, chicken, milk, fish or eggs

 

Source https://www.sustainweb.org/news/feb18_US_foodpoisoning/

[soalbundy]

On 5/7/2019 at 1:32 PM, welovesundaysatspace said:

I am not aware of any law that forbids a PM to make false promises. 

On the contrary it is a prerequisite.

[aright]

58 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

You must be a Brexiteer living in the past perhaps. 5th largest economy, dream on. Just another one harking back to past glories. The UK are slowly slipping down the list apparently

 

http://statisticstimes.com/economy/projected-world-gdp-ranking.php

 

In terms of GDP the UK is the fifth largest economy at least that's what Investopedia says.

 

The United Kingdom, with a $2.62 trillion GDP is the fifth-largest economy in the world.

This list is based on IMF’s World Economic Outlook Database, April 2018.

 

https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/

[geoffbezoz]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

 

In terms of GDP the UK is the fifth largest economy at least that's what Investopedia says.

 

The United Kingdom, with a $2.62 trillion GDP is the fifth-largest economy in the world.

This list is based on IMF’s World Economic Outlook Database, April 2018.

 

https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/

And that is proof, if any more were needed that Brexiteers are living in the past.  If you actually read my reference it is 2019.  I note yours was of April last year.  Move with the times and use recent data or just be quiet. India are now 5th FYI.

[soalbundy]

45 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Living in the past - another Remainer fallacy that you all latch on to but don't understand. It is precisely the past that Leavers want to be released from, specifically the past 40 odd years. Brexit is all about the future as a free trading economy with the whole world, not being bound by the restrictive and protectionist EU Federation. If there is to be any protection to trade, it must be for the benefit of the UK not some other European peasant economy.
Brexit is the future, for the UK to survive and thrive with trading partners in the big world. 

Who are they going to trade with when world trade agreements have been carved out between 3 major blocks ? The UK can't make its own aircraft or cars, can't produce enough food for its people, has child poverty, people sleeping on the streets, private rents that climb astronomically and scary pollution problems.

[aright]

24 minutes ago, tebee said:

The US reports higher rates of illness from foodborne illness than in the UK. Annually, 14.7% (48m) of the US population suffer from an illness, versus 1.5% (1m) in the UK. This is nearly ten times the percentage of population.

 

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report around 380 deaths in the US each year attributed to foodborne salmonella poisoning. The most recent epidemiological lab data from Public Health England, 2006 to 2015 shows no deaths in England and Wales from salmonella. Salmonella food poisoning is most commonly caused by consumption of contaminated food of animal origin, such as beef, chicken, milk, fish or eggs

 

Source https://www.sustainweb.org/news/feb18_US_foodpoisoning/

I know its contentious...……..this from the ukgrocer and Adam Smith institute

 

Other than Dr Fox, does anyone else think this is a good idea?

"It also points out American consumers eat about 156 million chlorine-treated chickens a week, and are fine, and that the risk associated with chlorine treatment are tiny. “Adults would need to eat 5% of their bodyweight in chlorinated chicken each day to be at risk of ill health from poultry alone,” it says. “Brits would have to eat three entire chlorine-washed chickens every day for an extended period to risk harm.”"

 

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/buying-and-supplying/food-safety/chlorinated-chicken-explained-why-do-the-americans-treat-their-poultry-with-chlorine/555618.article

 

[Loiner]

16 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Who are they going to trade with when world trade agreements have been carved out between 3 major blocks ? The UK can't make its own aircraft or cars, can't produce enough food for its people, has child poverty, people sleeping on the streets, private rents that climb astronomically and scary pollution problems.

The UK can still trade with the whole world. Agreements don't make the trade, only ease or impede it.

So how has your EU helped the UK not have "...its own aircraft or cars, can't produce enough food for its people, has child poverty, people sleeping on the streets, private rents that climb astronomically and scary pollution problems." It hasn't has it? Your favoured ills are all here while we still have EU membership. Time to get out.

[aright]

25 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

And that is proof, if any more were needed that Brexiteers are living in the past.  If you actually read my reference it is 2019.  I note yours was of April last year.  Move with the times and use recent data or just be quiet. India are now 5th FYI.

Your figures aren't proof they are projections just like project fear. 

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

I really don't understand where you're at.  Maybe some other poster could explain that to benefit Britain, the total population should be considered, not just the leavers.

 

As to being in the EU the UK has a seat at the table, and has the voting power to veto any proposal made by any other EU country, as does the other countries.

 

I never mentioned any country outside the Union. If Brexit happens I'm sure your questions would be answered by the 'leavers union', because it seems they're hell bent on destroying Britain.   

About 21% of the total population are under 18, so cannot be included in your 'minority' of Leave votes.

About 28% of the electorate didn't/couldn't turnout to vote, therefore don't matter. The only percentage that is valid is the majority who voted.

You are still kidding us and yourself that a single vote at the EU table gives the UK anything.

You mentioned them. Outside the EU, Britain has no power or influence. Never mind a levers union, what do you want to do to other countries? 

 

[stephenterry]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

About 21% of the total population are under 18, so cannot be included in your 'minority' of Leave votes.

About 28% of the electorate didn't/couldn't turnout to vote, therefore don't matter. The only ercentagpe that is valid is the majority who voted.

 

You are still kidding us and yourself that a single vote at the EU table gives the UK anything.

You mentioned them. Outside the EU, Britain has no power or influence. Never mind a levers union, what do you want to do to other countries? 

 

Of course people matter. I can see you couldn't give a jot about benefitting the people, only following leavers or lemmings, as I like to call them.  

 

You clearly know nothing about how the EU works and the UK's role as a member. 

 

As I said before, I haven't posted about other countries, but it's pretty clear that the UK tottering about on its own won't influence other countries one iota. In fact they'll probably see the UK as a country to take advantage of by upping the cost of their exports to the UK.

 

 

 

 

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, oilinki said:

So do the vote again and we'll get the real numbers to the public. 

 

UK is a medium sized country alone in terms of population same size as Thailand. EU is an economic superpower, which UK successfully used for her benefit before. That's not the case anymore. 

 

Negotiating power with other countries is a bit different when you talk with a voice of 500 million people, instead of 65 million people. That is only one reason why the EU is so good for us Europeans. 

 

I prefer fair rules for the people instead of invisible rainbow unicorns, which only few leaders of the UKIP party are allowed to have. 

We had the vote. No need for another, which unless rigged to Remain, would produce a Leave vote anyway. 'Vote again' sounds typically EU.

Negotiating power comes with trade volume, not necessarily the number of inhabitants of the EU. UK can negotiate very well without the vested interests of the various EU nations getting in the way.

Rainbows and Unicorns are your Remainer invention at losing the referendum. Don't you realise that the UK didn't believe Project Fear and don't believe in little girls' stories. 

[Loiner]

23 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Of course people matter. I can see you couldn't give a jot about benefitting the people, only following leavers or lemmings, as I like to call them.  

 

You clearly know nothing about how the EU works and the UK's role as a member. 

 

As I said before, I haven't posted about other countries, but it's pretty clear that the UK tottering about on its own won't influence other countries one iota. In fact they'll probably see the UK as a country to take advantage of by upping the cost of their exports to the UK.

Leaving the EU will benefit the whole of the UK, including all you Remainers too. Call us what you like. Or you could always find a way to opt out of the Leave benefits if you don't want to enjoy them.

 

You clearly don't know much either. I know that the EU does not work in the UK's best interests. An end to our member role as a major contributor and shackled trading partner is the best way forward for us.

 

You haven't posted about other countries, but what power and influence do you think we should exert over them. That's what you say

we would be lacking as a non-EU member. Should we control other countries like a vassal state, as the EU would do to us?

 

So other countries would take advantage of the UK by upping the cost of their exports? What sort of business do you run??? Are other countries in competition, or do you just take the one price? There is always one way to not pay a high price - walk away NO DEAL, the same as we must with the EU.

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, oilinki said:

That 28% didn't turn to vote, because they didn't think their votes matter at the time. Staying in the EU was pretty certain. 

 

Today they would turn to vote, swinging the vote to strong remain. They along the people, who voted against Tories and the people who have now seen the importance of membership of the European Union. They would vote to remain. 

 

Naturally there is always the 'Trumpetists' who will, no matter what facts are presented to them, vote to leave. They however are a minority. Poor sods. 

Another Remainer and mindreader. You have no idea about how anybody would vote, least of all the British nation.

How have you determined there is a group called Trumpetists? A growing majority - watch in a couple of weeks time.

[Loiner]

3 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Why don't you mention the 17 million people? Because you can't no longer to do that anymore.

 

I'm not a reminder. I'm European, you know the large entity just next to your half an island. 

 

Unicorn rainbows are what the people of UK was promised. Nigel Farage et al got their unicorn rainbows already by speculating with your own money, the Sterling. They earned millions.

 

They were never for the common good for the common people. They were there for themselves, to make a quick millions. And they succeeded. 

European - so not important at all to the matter at hand. You just don't matter.

[aright]

43 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Of course people matter. I can see you couldn't give a jot about benefitting the people, only following leavers or lemmings, as I like to call them.  

 

You clearly know nothing about how the EU works and the UK's role as a member. 

 

As I said before, I haven't posted about other countries, but it's pretty clear that the UK tottering about on its own won't influence other countries one iota. In fact they'll probably see the UK as a country to take advantage of by upping the cost of their exports to the UK.

 

 

 

 

If people matter so much can you tell us how fiscal union has benefitted the people of Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal, and if it hasn't what the EU has done about it.

If people matter so much why has there been a significant increase in extremist parties in the EU ..... Is that a sign of happy people?

 

[tebee]

3 hours ago, aright said:

 

In terms of GDP the UK is the fifth largest economy at least that's what Investopedia says.

 

The United Kingdom, with a $2.62 trillion GDP is the fifth-largest economy in the world.

This list is based on IMF’s World Economic Outlook Database, April 2018.

 

https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/

7th in 2019

 

 

[aright]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

7th in 2019

 

 

2019 figures aren't in yet we aren't half way through it. So those figures are a projection and as we know with projections (half a million people will be out of work etc) jaw jaw jaw jaw.

[aright]

28 minutes ago, oilinki said:

It's quite obvious that each EU member country has benefited of being a EU country. 

 

We do tend to take care of our own people. 

 

Are you really complaining that the Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal are way better off with the EU, compared to what they would have been outside of the EU?

 

Those southern states have had, for decades, if not centuries, their own problems. They are now getting better and figuring out how to do better in the future. We should give quite a lot credit for them for doing their best.

 

For us Scandis, UK used to be a country of reason. That was, until, UK simply broke down, by the forces internally and externally. 

 

I do hope UK will reinvent itself during the next years. 

We will never know how well off or poor those four countries would have been had they not joined the euro. I do know this however Italy had no major problems until it joined the euro.

That aside however the main thrust of my reply was to ask 2 questions. What has the EU done about a fiscal union which has made Germany richer and the other four countries much poorer? I thought you were all in it together.

Also what is the EU doing about the significant growth of extremist political parties which is a sign of electoral unhappiness?

Perhaps you could answer those 2 questions.

I am sure once outside the EU we will reinvent ourselves; we have no choice. I am also sure the EU will reinvent itself once we are gone. They have no choice

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory bickering posts have been removed. 

[malagateddy]

It's scary that the Europeans have better sense of humour than the Brits. Isn't it?

Oily..can you tell me if finland is one of the scrounging subsidy junkie eu member states..I'm not sure if it is or not.
Thanks

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bomber]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Leaving the EU will benefit the whole of the UK, including all you Remainers too. Call us what you like. Or you could always find a way to opt out of the Leave benefits if you don't want to enjoy them.

 

You clearly don't know much either. I know that the EU does not work in the UK's best interests. An end to our member role as a major contributor and shackled trading partner is the best way forward for us.

 

You haven't posted about other countries, but what power and influence do you think we should exert over them. That's what you say

we would be lacking as a non-EU member. Should we control other countries like a vassal state, as the EU would do to us?

 

So other countries would take advantage of the UK by upping the cost of their exports? What sort of business do you run??? Are other countries in competition, or do you just take the one price? There is always one way to not pay a high price - walk away NO DEAL, the same as we must with the EU.

those shackles that have given us record employment and growth that would of been above germanys had it not been for brexit,your beloved no deal will see prices soaring of just about everything and an almost certain recession,that along with the probable break up of the UK is why brexit will NEVER happen,keep dreaming ????

[bomber]

7 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Oily..can you tell me if finland is one of the scrounging subsidy junkie eu member states..I'm not sure if it is or not.
Thanks

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

the finns are a wealthy nation than the UK ever will be,i doubt any finn would fancy relocating to glasgow????