Mandatory health insurance for foreigners aged over 50 in Thailand - why it may not affect you

[madmen]

1 minute ago, mercman24 said:

update on my post 296, just been in talks with a close friend, he had skin cancer on his arm, a few years ago,  two biopsy operations, and his total outlay was 6,500 baht so i ask once again, who concocted this this rediculous figure of 40,000 baht for out patient care. they havent got a bloody clue.  

Thats their problem. get a policy from your own country and forget about it

[giddyup]

5 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

update on my post 296, just been in talks with a close friend, he had skin cancer on his arm, a few years ago,  two biopsy operations, and his total outlay was 6,500 baht so i ask once again, who concocted this this rediculous figure of 40,000 baht for out patient care. they havent got a bloody clue.  

That's for a private hospital I imagine. Not everyone wants to use a Thai public hospital when the waiting times can be horrendous, especially if you have an emergency, as I did with chronic gallbladder pain. That cost me 220,000 baht in a private hospital.

[zydeco]

Last month. Private hospital. Two retina scans. Work up. Opthalmalogist exam. 710 baht.

[tgeezer]

The topic seems to be based on the distinction between a visa and an extension which has been necessary to make only on the Immigration forum in order to discuss problems. Thai considers an extension of stay to be an extension of your visa so in all likelihood the requirement applies to all retirees. 

That the government feels itself responsible for trading losses of private companies is interesting, unofficially it has been going on at the local level for some time, jet skis for example.  A You Tube video quoted some official who, when asked about existing medical conditions, suggested that a larger qualifying sum held in the bank might be required.  This suggests that if you have the Bt.800,000 in the bank then you are effectively self insured because the insurance cover required is less than this amount.  

The cabinet seems to have introduced insurance in order to facilitate granting of extensions through agents where the bank deposit does not exist. The solution to this problem would be to require people using agents to have the insurance but then, that doesn’t stop an agent from providing proof of insurance where none exists.  

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

I did think you can exit just before the O-A expires and come back in to get a second year, but after the second year you cannot do again, and must get another O-A from your own country again.

my opinion, others might clarify

Yes you can get a second year ( permission to stay, using re entry permit to travel outside ) after your ME OA visa has expired ( 1 year after issue ).

Then after the second year you just extend for 1 year ( your permission to stay ) but of course have to show the Thai financial requirements. Yearly extensions then onwards.

An option ( which I was considering ) is to go back “ home “ to get another OA avoiding the money in Thai bank , of course this Health insurance malarkey has given me second thoughts.

[malagateddy]

But you are. Unless you provide accurate facts and sources to back up your comments, what you have written in your post is just pure gossip, plain and simple.

Wait and see what comes along come July of this year.
I do not talk b/s.
Remember this..expats were given only a few weeks re the money in Thai banks.
Announced think it was late January..came into effect 1st March.
Thailand is slowly catching up with many other countries re foreigners having to pay their way..and not being a financial burden to the Thai Govt.
My country of Origin and many other countries do not " hand ou " free healthcare to foreigners..AND QUITE RIGHTLY
Have a nice day

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[sumrit]

Taken from this article:

https://news.thaivisa.com/article/35306/mandatory-health-insurance-for-retirement-visa-holders-likely-to-take-effect-in-july

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

Approved by the Cabinet last month, the new regulation will require expats on the long-stay non-immigrant O-A visa to have health insurance that offers Bt40,000 coverage for outpatient treatment and Bt400,000 for inpatient. 

 

The requirement was introduced because foreign expats have piled up unpaid medical bills of more than Bt300 million since 2016. 

 

Once the rule is implemented, applicants for the non-immigrant O-A visa, which is valid for one year from the date of issue, would be required to buy health insurance. 

 

“Current holders of this visa will have to produce proof of their health insurance for visa renewal

 

So, once implemented, will only apply to new applicants applying for an O-A visa, who will also have to show current health insurance when applying a for visa renewal. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, sumrit said:

Taken from this article:

https://news.thaivisa.com/article/35306/mandatory-health-insurance-for-retirement-visa-holders-likely-to-take-effect-in-july

 

So, once implemented, will only apply to new applicants applying for an O-A visa, who will also have to show current health insurance when applying a for visa renewal. 

Renewal means extensions obviously. 

Applications for annual retirement extensions are exactly the same thing if you started with an O-A or started with an O.

It's really hard to believe that they don't mean ALL retirement extensions. But why they had to confuse things by saying O-A is the problem. 

[sumrit]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Renewal means extensions obviously. 

Applications for annual retirement extensions are exactly the same thing if you started with an O-A or started with an O.

It's really hard to believe that they don't mean ALL retirement extensions. But why they had to confuse things by saying O-A is the problem. 

Read again: Firstly it specifically states it applies to applicants of O-A visas then states holders of this visa will have to provide proof of health insurance.

 

Nowhere does it mention extensions or existing holders of O-A visas that have extended their permission of stay before the implementation date.

 

She said that once the rule is implemented, applicants for the non-immigrant O-A visa, which is valid for one year from the date of issue, would be required to buy health insurance. 

 

“Current holders of this visa will have to produce proof of their health insurance for visa renewal

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, sumrit said:

Read again: Firstly it specifically states it applies to applicants of O-A visas then states holders of this visa will have to provide proof of health insurance.

 

Nowhere does it mention extensions or existing holders of O-A visas that have extended their permission of stay before the implementation date.

 

She said that once the rule is implemented, applicants for the non-immigrant O-A visa, which is valid for one year from the date of issue, would be required to buy health insurance. 

 

“Current holders of this visa will have to produce proof of their health insurance for visa renewal

Seriously? You seriously thinks that clear this up?!?

“Current holders of this visa will have to produce proof of their health insurance for visa renewal

[sumrit]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Seriously? You seriously thinks that clear this up?!?

“Current holders of this visa will have to produce proof of their health insurance for visa renewal

At least I'm quoting what is actually written in the report, not quoting your assumption that has never been quoted on any report.

 

Please show me any official report that states expats on extensions will be included in this health insurance change. 

[Dania2019]

The Thai government is hostile and without empathy for the people who have lived in Thailand for many years.

Farangs puts more money in Thailand an average of Thaier, but will not give us equal rights with the Thais for health insurance. It is crazy, hostile and completely wrong as one will treat resident prisoners.

Many families are destroyed, and many fathers lose everything they have invested over many years, and many have to go home.
If you are over 80, no one will insure your health, and a health insurance for people up to the 80 costs about 91,000 Baht a year.

It is not at all in relation to the demands for income that are set for the retirement visa or married visa, one is completely out in the hemp.

The fact that you will require insurance for those who holiday in Thailand seems to be in perfect order, but the extended measures that are underway are unstable and very hostile.

 

I am 79 years married 11 years and help two children in four year to finish university. I have never been sick and have live here 12 years. All I have here I lose that way, and have nothing to go back to.

 

WHY TO MAKE LIFE DIFFICULT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, sumrit said:

At least I'm quoting what is actually written in the report, not quoting your assumption that has never been quoted on any report.

 

Please show me any official report that states expats on extensions will be included in this health insurance change. 

Dude, I'm only saying it's UNCLEAR and anyone at this point with the information that has been released at this point that says things are definite shouldn't be taken seriously. 

 

Where you're at I don't think is reasonable. You're looking this from a legalist POV when in reality the press coverage and language even in official announcements in English here is notoriously vague and flawed.

[Dania2019]

If a farang is married to a Thai employee who is a public employee, he can be treated in the hospitals on an equal footing with the Thai.

What an insane scheme is that only people in that category will be accommodated. As written, the resident faranger puts more money in Thailand than the average of thais.

There are more than 20 million poor Thai people who get better help than us, so what is it for a fool to present.
That one has not long since introduced compulsory health insurance for holidaymakers is foolish, and it is primarily here that Thailand has lost money I will believe.

Take, however, and protect those who have chosen a life in Thailand.

[billd766]

8 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Maybe it will. But that's not what is being proposed by the Cabinet. Let's see what the official Police Order says when it is published.

When the law was changed to make insurance mandatory for OX visas, many speculated that it would affect Extensions and other visas as well. It didn't. Now OA visas are being affected. Who knows what will happen down the line? It's all just speculation.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Tapatalk
 

At last a post with commonsense.

 

From what I have read so far on this and other threads is what was released to the news papers.

 

I have yet to see w2hat Ubonjoe says when he gets a good look at the officially released order from the Thai Immigration Department.

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

At last a post with commonsense.

 

From what I have read so far on this and other threads is what was released to the news papers.

 

I have yet to see w2hat Ubonjoe says when he gets a good look at the officially released order from the Thai Immigration Department.

"Cabinet approved an extra health insurance requirement for foreigners applying for one-year Non-Immigrant O-A visas,” Dr Natthawut said.  The new requirement applies to all foreigners aged 50 or older,
The requirement applies to all new applicants for one-year non-

immigrant O-A visas, and for those applying to “renew” their one-year permits-to-stay, he said."

 

Renew means extend in Thai Visa parlance. 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/cabinet-approves-mandatory-health-insurance-for-long-stay-visas-71424.php#pRSh3bvj25mgBOU7.97

 

A reporter for Thai Visa has confused the definition of renew with re apply - there in lies the problem. 

 

[DowntownAl]

On 5/15/2019 at 1:44 PM, jessc said:

I thought this article was clear and helpful, even if the rules still are not. Thanks!

However, a suggestion: should this new requirement for mandatory health insurance ever be extended to apply to extensions based on retirement, perhaps the health insurance that Thai Visa is selling (notably, right along side these articles) could also be available to the full range of retirees who've lived in Thailand for many years - - often because paying full rate for medical care in Thailand is STILL less expensive than buying insurance back home. Currently the Pacific Cross insurance Thai Visa is hawking only covers people to age 64.

The expats who will be most effected by this requirement, if applied to extensions based on retirement, are those who have retired here on a fixed income, and who have aged out of basically any insurance (affordable or otherwise) available for purchase in Thailand. So, even if financially able to buy the insurance, they can't. And, likely, have no where to go to if unable to stay in Thailand.

There are 6 companies insuring us oldies up 99-100

 

https://longstay.tgia.org/

[sumrit]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

 

 

 

2

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Dude, I'm only saying it's UNCLEAR and anyone at this point with the information that has been released at this point that says things are definite shouldn't be taken seriously. 

 

Where you're at I don't think is reasonable. You're looking this from a legalist POV when in reality the press coverage and language even in official announcements in English here is notoriously vague and flawed.

I fail to see why you think my quoting what has been officially said is unreasonable when, throughout this thread and others currently running, you have made comments that have definitely not been said or even suggested yet treat them as accurate information without any foundation and yet you think your comments are reasonable. 

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, sumrit said:

I fail to see why you think my quoting what has been officially said is unreasonable when, throughout this thread and others currently running, you have made comments that have definitely not been said or even suggested yet treat them as accurate information without any foundation and yet you think your comments are reasonable. 

Nothing further from me to you on this. 

[malagateddy]

The Thai government is hostile and without empathy for the people who have lived in Thailand for many years.
Farangs puts more money in Thailand an average of Thaier, but will not give us equal rights with the Thais for health insurance. It is crazy, hostile and completely wrong as one will treat resident prisoners.
Many families are destroyed, and many fathers lose everything they have invested over many years, and many have to go home.
If you are over 80, no one will insure your health, and a health insurance for people up to the 80 costs about 91,000 Baht a year.
It is not at all in relation to the demands for income that are set for the retirement visa or married visa, one is completely out in the hemp.
The fact that you will require insurance for those who holiday in Thailand seems to be in perfect order, but the extended measures that are underway are unstable and very hostile.
 
I am 79 years married 11 years and help two children in four year to finish university. I have never been sick and have live here 12 years. All I have here I lose that way, and have nothing to go back to.
 
WHY TO MAKE LIFE DIFFICULT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thailand is following most other countries in the world.
Example..if a Thai person wanted to get a visa for eg..mainland europe for the purpose of retirement..he/she would have to have a rather fat bankbook and a top notch healthcare policy.
Think about it.

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[metisdead]

A post containing profanity has been removed:

 

8.) You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages, vulgarities, obscenities or profanities.

[Acharn]

On 5/15/2019 at 1:03 PM, dcnx said:

Not yet. It will apply to everyone eventually.

 

It may. There is no doubt that some of the elite despise most foreigners. Thaksin's first Minister of the Interior, Phurachai, was one. Back then the police department, including Immigration, came under the Interior Ministry. Phurachai was the leader of the "church wing" of the old Phalang Tham Party established by General Chamlong Srimuang. Phurachai managed to derail all applications for naturalization and permanent residence, sent every single approved application back for review, because he claimed to suspect irregularities (i.e. corruption). We were seriously worried that he would kick all foreigners out of the country. So I'm just going to wait and see. Interestingly, at the time Phurachai's two sons were attending school in New Zealand, and he moved there after he left office (that might have been after the coup of 2006).

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, DowntownAl said:

There are 6 companies insuring us oldies up 99-100

 

https://longstay.tgia.org/

5 so far.  I'm still applying. 

[stament]

On 5/15/2019 at 3:09 PM, stevehhd said:

Very simple

 

Retired and got 800k in the bank to support yourself and get you home if it goes tits up ?  Visa granted.    Health/accident Insurance up to you but stupid not to have IMO

 

0ver 50 and either don't have, or don't want 800k in the bank etc ?  Must have proper health/accident insurance for Thailand so Thailand does not have to pay all your bills.

 

Personally I would rather my paid up taxes went to better causes than patching up and sending home yet another pisshead after his 10th motorbike crash.

 

That said. All this exposure will turn everyone you meet into an insurance agent with the best deals to offer. Wait and shop around.

 

What about under 50 and not retired?

[brewsterbudgen]

What about under 50 and not retired?

The under-50s cannot apply for OA or OX visas, so it does not apply to them.

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[9653]

On 5/15/2019 at 1:59 PM, userabcd said:

The visa in your passport shows it is either an O visa or an O-A visa

Interesting, i will now check my visa in the pp.

[malagateddy]

So will I have to get health insurance for Lady Roadrunner too!? She already costs me enough.
 
We Farang need some collective way to petition the Thai Gov't and Immigration. Right now they just do as they please with the reg's that affect our lives. How can they expect people to retire here with no surety of tenure?
 
The health insurance requirement may not affect retirees yet but it's coming for sure.
 
Bottom line is you can stay .... so long as you have money. Typical Thailand.

Take the boulder of your shoulder..Thailand is just following many other countries re immigrants/healthcare.
Imagine a Thai wanting to retire to eg..Spain..

1..he/she would need to show a fat bankbook.
1..He/she would also require to have a very pricy healthcare insurance policy.

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[moogradod]

2 hours ago, malagateddy said:

Thailand is following most other countries in the world.
Example..if a Thai person wanted to get a visa for eg..mainland europe for the purpose of retirement..he/she would have to have a rather fat bankbook and a top notch healthcare policy.
Think about it.

In the European countries I know and which have a mandatory insurance it is mandatory for the insurance companies as well to insure anybody. It cannot be a one sided requirement.

 

In Thailand nobody wants to have free health care and profit from somebody else. But I understand everybody who wants to stay if he has the funds to do that without being a burden. You could be 85 years old and a multimillionaire. And you would want to refuse this person to stay here by making it mandatory to have an insurance which nobody wants to offer ? This person is and will never be a burden financially and in my eyes it is not very compassionate to ignore that. You would do unspeakable harm to this person - completely unjustified. And I do not think the reasoning of "few collaterals that cannot be avoided" is appropriate. Especially if you think of the aim of this exercise. It is possible to have a solution that fits all. I think this is really the core of all this.

 

Of course you should have the means to be able to pay for your health, which could be demonstrated by having a sum in a fixed account. This would even guarantee that in case of sickness the bills can be paid for sure. An insurance company on the other hand might refuse to pay because of anything and nothing is gained. I thought the aim was to reduce the amount of unpaid bills. Just think yourself which approach would assist here more.

[daejung]

What makes me worry is that thai authorities constantly change the rules.

 

How can you plan anything that way, without legal security ?

 

I am retired since october. I came to Thailand at the beginning of january with a 3 months Visa non O and asked in Bangkok for a 1 year extension which I very easily got. That extension expires in april 2020.

 

I went back to France, where I am now, at mid april (after a 3 months and half stay). What I intended to do with my 1 year permission to stay (and later renewals) was to come to Thailand whenever I wanted. Next planned trip in november for 3 to 5 months). For now I do not intend to live in Thailand but to stay there 6 months a year ( about 2 times 3 months). May be later I would settle there.

 

If I stay out of France no more than 6 months, the french national security system still covers me. I just have to ask them for refund of medical expenses when I go back to France (and an extra "assistance" linked to my Visa Pemier Card provides me with an advance of funds if need be. I only have to pay for an extension of this assistance if my trip is longer than 90 days). So I do no need an extra health insurance and I much doubt the french national security system (Sécurité sociale) would give me any document, acceptable by thai authorities, to prove I am already covered.

 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

By July, thanks to this explanation, we will no doubt see all types of long stay being included.

(It is useful for expats, but will be more useful for Thai Immigration unfortunately as the Thais are not capable of working this out for themselves.}

Now they know what to do it will be all encompassing, and validating health foreign policies will be almost impossible.

 

I'm packing already after Big Joke's round of changes.

The income validation is impossible for me as the portfolio managers cannot guarantee a consistent income and I get paid the premiums only every quarter, although it is actually above the required amount as an average.

Plus I'm not old enough for the monthly government pension or my private ones to start.

The "security" money required in a Thai bank should be an interest bearing account, and property ownership should be included in the calculation, so I strongly object to that.

 

The cost of health insurance at 60+ is just the last straw.

 

Leaving my family to fend for themselves seems to be the only option...

????

 

Thailand: A mainly polite but incompetent and uneducated population, led by the greedy and unconcerned rich.