Mandatory health insurance for non-immigrant O-A retirement visa holders likely to take effect in July

[morrobay]

9 hours ago, AYJAYDEE said:

the article said it applied to "renewals" as well

Indeed, renewals for the OA visa. It seems that that is the context of renewal in that brief paragraph. And as pointed out by # post 571 if was going to be all inclusive you would expect a lot more than a short paragraph ,even a non official paragraph. 

[brianthainess]

On 5/16/2019 at 6:48 AM, KhaoYai said:

Don't be silly, they can't be upsetting those cash cows, sorry, tourists. Let's blame all the ex pats in Thailand for the millions of baht that it costs to treat tourists who've got involved in accidents/fights/drunken stupidity, been taken to hospital, then failed to pay.

 

All this non payment business is news to me, I don't see how its possible.  In 2011 I was involved in a serious accident, I was unconscious, losing a lot of blood and apparently was minutes away from 'shuffling off this mortal coil' - I needed blood fast. When I regained consciousness I learned that my ex M.I.L had to produce her credit card at St Louis Hospital, Sathorn before they would give me a transfusion! My ex wife was then sent out with my ATM card to obtain further funds which they wanted as a deposit before admitting me. I'd even been taken to hospital in the back of a passer by's pick up truck as the ambulance that turned up wanted details of my insurance company before they'd take me - quite how an unconscious man was supposed to produce his insurance, I know not.

 

2016, Bankgok Hospital, Korat wanted 20,000 baht deposit and proof of my ability to pay the balance before they would admit my ex Mrs for an 'emergency' operation.

 

How do people fail to pay?
 

Absolutely when i was wrongly diagnosed with bowel cancer i was asked for a deposit of 30,000 baht  wifey got it down to 10,000 incase i died on the table the next morning. Next morning i was told its O K you only have an intestine infection. Thanks Trat government hospital for really good treatment and returning unspent deposit.   These Stats are complete B S.  In a country rife with corruption something stinks ????. 38 million my ass 

Edited May 20, 2019 by brianthainess

[jacko45k]

On 5/17/2019 at 11:21 AM, pagallim said:

This from the MFA website (http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html????

This information has been on that website some years and is incorrect. 

Likely they meant to say Extension.... hey a lot of people confuse Extension and Visa!

 

The Ministry of the Interior does not issue Visas, that would be the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by jacko45k

[AYJAYDEE]

1 hour ago, morrobay said:

Indeed, renewals for the OA visa. It seems that that is the context of renewal in that brief paragraph. And as pointed out by # post 571 if was going to be all inclusive you would expect a lot more than a short paragraph ,even a non official paragraph. 

but it doesnt say that. and visas arent renewed, theyre replaced

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, AYJAYDEE said:

but it doesnt say that. and visas arent renewed, theyre replaced

Not really replaced, they expire. A new one is obtained, not really 'renewed', but we are only arguing semantics. 

[rabas]

4 minutes ago, AYJAYDEE said:

1 hour ago, morrobay said:

Indeed, renewals for the OA visa. It seems that that is the context of renewal in that brief paragraph. And as pointed out by # post 571 if was going to be all inclusive you would expect a lot more than a short paragraph ,even a non official paragraph. 

but it doesnt say that. and visas arent renewed, theyre replaced

The Thai language for renew and extend are exactly the same. I would not bank a lot on small differences in translation to English.

[AYJAYDEE]

7 minutes ago, rabas said:

The Thai language for renew and extend are exactly the same. I would not bank a lot on small differences in translation to English.

so it could just as easily apply to a permission to stay resulting from an O-A

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Olmate said:

Retired teachers,that’s makes sense!

When I retire, I have the option of keeping the government health insurance for about 400 baht a month.

I'll probably take out other insurance.

 

[Neeranam]

16 minutes ago, rabas said:

The Thai language for renew and extend are exactly the same. I would not bank a lot on small differences in translation to English.

No they are not.

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

No they are not.

Possibly he means synonyms

[davehowden]

“We will ask the Immigration Bureau, the Foreign Ministry and the Insurance Department for additional details and implementation guidelines next week,” Saowapa Jongkittipong, who leads the Health Service Support Department’s International Health Division, said yesterday (May 15), reported The Nation."

 

I somehow doubt that they are all going to jump around to implement your requirements by July darling.

[jacko45k]

45 minutes ago, AYJAYDEE said:

so it could just as easily apply to a permission to stay resulting from an O-A

No, as that is not really specific to Non-Imm-OA Visas obtained in your home country. A permission of stay is issued by Immigration at airports and border points (who can yet say whether insurance will be checked for here, for those using an OA Visa?). They can be extended at Immigration offices within the country. 

[oxysong]

2 hours ago, brianthainess said:

Absolutely when i was wrongly diagnosed with bowel cancer i was asked for a deposit of 30,000 baht  wifey got it down to 10,000 incase i died on the table the next morning. Next morning i was told its O K you only have an intestine infection. Thanks Trat government hospital for really good treatment and returning unspent deposit.   These Stats are complete B S.  In a country rife with corruption something stinks ????. 38 million my ass 

Quite right.  It is the for profit private hospitals that have caused this problem  govt hospital level  AOK....just blood suckers private hospitals,lie ,cheat is their motto

[SpokaneAl]

I do nothing different than others.  I got my O/A at the consulate in NY.  Came here did my extension of stay each year for 13 years.  There is nothing special about what I did.  I transfer more than 65,000 each month got the letter of income form the Embassy and followed the rules.  Now they want me to have health insurance.  Lucky my extension is 27 July so I will do it in late June to miss the insurance this year.  But I have Tricare for Life which is 10 times better than the crap they are offering here but how do you prove to a Thai IO.  No one knows yet and it is only a month away.  I think they need to come up with another date farther out to give people time after they decide what the hell they do.  I really hate this crap, but I am staying.

 

I also have Tricare Overseas. It will be interesting to see what they will require as proof in that the Tricare website says this, “You won't receive a TRICARE wallet card, all you need is your military ID as proof of coverage.”

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[rabas]

39 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

42 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

No they are not.

 Possibly he means synonyms

Yes, there are oodles of translations to choose from, but the most common are based on the same words. daw, daw ayhoo.  These are the terms used in the original Thai announcement by the director of the Department of Health Service. Perhaps K. Neeranam knows something helpful to the community that he could provide. We would all welcome that.

 

Anyway, I asked my resident lawyer, she agreed (my niece).

[morrobay]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

No they are not.

There are only 25,000 words in the Thai language as compared to about  one million in English. So whether renew equals replace or extend the context is on the OA in that short paragraph. On the other hand if all inclusive you have 3 options: insurance , (which could be very creative ie 399000 deduct) agent or plan B     

Edited May 20, 2019 by morrobay

[AYJAYDEE]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

No, as that is not really specific to Non-Imm-OA Visas obtained in your home country. A permission of stay is issued by Immigration at airports and border points (who can yet say whether insurance will be checked for here, for those using an OA Visa?). They can be extended at Immigration offices within the country. 

but you cant say for sure what the article meant in spite of your word games

[AYJAYDEE]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Not really replaced, they expire. A new one is obtained, not really 'renewed', but we are only arguing semantics. 

when something expires, it is replaced

[Andrew Dwyer]

when something expires, it is replaced

I’m sure when I expire I won’t be replaced , I mean how could they replace something this hansum !! [emoji51]

[bkk6060]

On 5/16/2019 at 7:53 AM, malibukid said:

again because of the cheap charlies we are now paying a price.  same thing happened with the embassy letters.

Yes.

You are one of the few who is in touch with reality and the truth.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by bkk6060

[mercman24]

been to two hospitals, in 5 years, Ekamai, Bkk, and Gov Hospital Pattaya,  after seeing the doctor, one goes to a seating area, wait until your number is called, pay the bill, go next counter , collect medicine,  no way in hell can you leave without paying. its all made up fantasy figures. my bill was 40,000, ha ha (joking) total piss take  

[Neeranam]

8 hours ago, rabas said:

Yes, there are oodles of translations to choose from, but the most common are based on the same words. daw, daw ayhoo.  These are the terms used in the original Thai announcement by the director of the Department of Health Service. Perhaps K. Neeranam knows something helpful to the community that he could provide. We would all welcome that.

 

Anyway, I asked my resident lawyer, she agreed (my niece).

Although I don't know the context, 

"Daw ayoo" is appropriate for renewing something that you have ownership of, for example a driver's license.

"Daw" is used for extending something like a visa, where ownership is not permanent.

 

Just shouted over the fence at my neighbour, who is a Thai lawyer, educated in the US he agreed that they are not the same. The first is renew, the second, extend.

 

[GR8fun in LOS]

On 5/15/2019 at 9:28 PM, pookiki said:

Yes, that's the first think I noticed.  Maybe 380,000 at the most.  Thirty-eight million would be over half of Thailand's current population!

Yes I have to agree, how could the Farangs represent more than half the Thai population?
Perhaps they should change the country name from Thailand to "Farangland" on those figures.

It seems to suggest a long held feeling that Thai forward planning is what am I having for lunch?

Blame anybody except yourself!

[Andrew Dwyer]

Yes I have to agree, how could the Farangs represent more than half the Thai population?
Perhaps they should change the country name from Thailand to "Farangland" on those figures.
It seems to suggest a long held feeling that Thai forward planning is what am I having for lunch?
Blame anybody except yourself!

That error was cleared up, the 38 million were actual visitors in 2018, number of OA visa holders in 2018 was 80,950 .

[sfokevin]

18 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

Is ThaiVisa in the health insurance market (ThaiVisa Protect)? I just want to know.

Given there is a dedicated tab at the top of this page leading to  “ThaiVisa Health Protect”... Odds are high that they are shilling insurance... And this thread is a very good marketing tool... 

[RPCVguy]

Complaining won't change the existing situation, but offering options might help improve the details of the final law. If you like this proposal, share it! Get people looking at it...
My background: back in the early 1980s I supervised the corporate benefits operations for a large (Fortune 20) corporation. There are benefits to having a large pool of people - enough  to reap the benefits of self insuring on a cost-plus contract fee basis the medical, dental and life insurance plans for over 65,000 employees. That benefit is NOT available here. Each of us is being thrown into the market as needing an individual policy. WHAT ALTERNATIVES ARE THERE?  The concept of Medical Savings Accounts (MSAs) – that individuals save and pay for their own medical needs – emerged in response to concerns of healthcare costs. The appeal of enlisting consumers in reducing costs as well as mobilizing additional funds for healthcare led to implementation of this mechanism in countries as diverse as Singapore, China, the United States, and South Africa  over the last 20 years. The plan needed here is NOT for all Thai, but is a viable way to cover stated goals of coverage without overly increasing expenses to long-stay expats.

Medical savings accounts are accounts used for paying medical bills. Plans and their details vary from country to country. In Thailand, there is a desire to assure all long term foreign residents have at least ฿400,000 that can be used to cover hospital bills. Many such residents are elderly/ seniors who've extended their stay in Thailand each year - qualifying for retiree, marriage or family extensions - as defined in immigration laws. Concerns exist as to increased costs as these non-citizens age.
Most of these individuals are not employed and many are not insured for health coverage at the prescribed minimums currently being defined. Obtaining insurance individually is extremely disadvantageous since insurance companies refuse covering "pre-existing conditions." Even if a paper says they are covered to the limits listed on the policy, individuals and those hospitals providing treatment will quickly find claims refused - due to those exclusions.

How can Thai authorities assure availability of funds to cover the intended ฿400,000? An option that is nearly complete under current regulations would be to define that ฿400,000 of funds now required and proven available to be secured in an account that can only be drawn upon by a hospital (maybe via a pin accessed bank-card accessed only by hospitals.) EACH and EVERY account withdraw over the year could be documented with hospital receipts AND the account would need to be topped up again to ฿400,000 before going in to immigration to extend one's stay another year.

Already online are comments regarding any insurance as an excuse to party more, or get treatment that has been delayed as not important enough. Such comments highlight one of the key deficiencies  of private health insurance as moral hazard and it adds to future healthcare costs. Economic theory purports that health insurance provides incentives to over-consume and over-supply.

"With healthcare payments partially, if not fully, borne by a third party, the full cost of care is not evident. As a result, consumers may engage in riskier behavior, increasing the likelihood to need more  healthcare,  and/or  simply  purchase  more healthcare than medically needed. In  addition, providers may also supply more care than necessary. Such bad behavior changes increase the quantity of healthcare consumed. It is allocatively inefficient as too much of society’s resources are directed to healthcare, creating a welfare loss."
[https://www.who.int/healthsystems/topics/financing/healthreport/MSAsNo17FINAL.pdf]

This option will not help everyone. Those who are not using a deposit to demonstrate financial means are demonstrating monthly deposits of ฿65,000. For them, monthly insurance payments will remain the best option. How costly is insurance? I'm over 70 years of age. Only a few or the touted plans will offer me coverage, and the least expensive I found was ฿107,000/yr in premiums. In this instance the insurance company takes off in every 2-4 years ALL the money they are offering as the maximum of the policy, and will NOT PAY much of what is most likely to need paying. EVEN if the company does not raise its current rates, it plans to double that premium expense to me by the time I'm 80. AND ... to repeat, it will NOT COVER any issue I've already suffered with in my prior 70 years. It is a SCAM.

Thai authorities can do better than to enrich insurance companies while not helping hospitals be assured of many payments. I hope the authorities will read this and consider creating an effective THAI MEDICAL SAVINGS ACCOUNT SYSTEM. If adopted, a newly defined THAI version of a MEDICAL SAVINGS PLAN encourages individuals to take care of their behavior choices so as to not overly draw down their savings beyond what they can replenish before applying to stay another year in Thailand.

[Huckenfell]

This has been on my mind ever since i first read about it. Having lived in Thailand for the past 12 years and during that time , made 3 hospital visits, i just cannot imagine how anybody can leave a hospital without paying the bill. I think that it is impossible !  However having deeply thought about it,  the fact that corruption in Thailand is rife just about everywhere i am asking the question. Perhaps those bills were all paid but pocketed and recorded as "Unpaid"   In this light i suggest that all these so called unpaid bills are seriously investigated one by one with some authority. It is not at all difficult to find the reported non payer as we all have to do 90 day reporting.  Just a thought.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Huckenfell

[Huckenfell]

On 5/18/2019 at 7:43 AM, brewsterbudgen said:

If you are on an Extension of Stay based on retirement it won't affect you, as currently they are only talking about OA visas, and OX visas which have had the insurance requirement for some time.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I use O-A Retirement visa

Edited May 22, 2019 by Huckenfell

[Huckenfell]

On 5/18/2019 at 7:58 AM, Andrew Dwyer said:

Unfortunately Huckenfell gets a new OA from OZ every 2 years so without a doubt is affected by this new rule.
Of course he can get an extension by depositing or transfers to a Thai bank account, which I presume he has been avoiding, hence getting a new OA.
The loophole which the OA provided has been sussed !!

Options now are, pay the mandatory health insurance ( if possible ) or extend and deal with the financial requirements.
I don’t believe mandatory health insurance is required for extensions............yet !!

At 83 years of age, where can i get insurance ?

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

At 83 years of age, where can i get insurance ?
 

Wish i had an answer for you, but I don’t.

Another option for you is to do an extension based on retirement, of course there’s the financial requirements to fulfill but I don’t see any other options.

You’re currently on an OA right ?, are you on the 1st year ( i.e. before its expiry date ) of it or have you left the country and are on the 2nd year permission to stay ?