US Alzheimer's patient: Goodbye Thailand - it was nice knowing you

[donnacha]

3 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

The family were paying the costs for their mother to live in Thailand legally AND receive medical treatment for many years.

They were not doing it legally. They were falsely stating the lady's income in order to get an embassy letter. Like many others, they ran into problems when the government started to insist that only verified proofs of income were acceptable.

The provision that their false statements was circumventing was the one designed to ensure that elderly retirees here have at least some money stashed away to pay their own costs on the way out. There would be no need for the 800K or equivalent income requirement if the country was not getting stuck with these costs.
 

 

8 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

How is Thailand getting stuck with the medical care and end-of life-costs? 

When you get Alzheimer's, you don't just neatly die of that. The rest of your body continues to deteriorate as it normally would and, as you progress through your 70's you become statistically more likely to suffer a heart attack, or a stroke, or you might develop cancer. At that age, even just a flu can put you into an ICU for months, and none of those costs would have been covered by the 86K they were paying for her residential care.

Did you think people just float away when they get old?
 

 

13 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

You might wave your finger and point to the rules smugly

I have just as much difficultly as anyone else in making sure that my future medical costs are covered. I find reality unfair every day.

What sickens me is when people like you grandly pretend that there is some sort of magical way that all the people, like this woman's daughter, who find ways around the rules, are not causing real harm to others.

Not just you, but all the idiots on ThaiVisa who loudly insist that Thailand is "not Buddhist enough" or is somehow attacking Westerners by insisting we make at least some provision to cover our own costs. We all know what is coming, deciding to ignore that and presume that others will swoop in to save you is the worst form of cynicism.

There is nothing smug about pointing out that someone is distorting the truth and making wild claims to camouflage their own negligence.
 

[donnacha]

15 minutes ago, Chazar said:

Has anyone actually  done this without the 800k  since the new laws were implemented as I was told by a friend they tried this and agents sad it's  now  impossible.

People in the other threads around this story seem to be suggesting it is possible, but it costs 20K, twice the old price.

I do not personally know anyone who has done it.

[moe666]

I know nothing about this family but how was mom staying before they either put 800,000 in the bank showed income or lied to the US Consulate to get their income letter. The change to show proof seems to point at lying about the letter. Be honest folks nothing like a lie to make you look bad. By the way if the daughter was such a carring person how come her mom is in CM and she is in the south. This whole story is such a load of crap, about the reasons for leaving. I feel for the mom she is the one who is getting the shaft here, she will be in Manila. They really have not said if the entire family is moving there with her.

[kingstonkid]

1 hour ago, suzannegoh said:

One problem in the States is that longterm healthcare in a "home" for Alzheimers patients is only covered by Medicaid and not by Medicare, and to qualify for Medicaid you need to be certifiably poor. So basically you need to completely drain your savings on mefical care or hide it away in a trust before the government would pay for it.

BTW for those wondering the new Medicare for all will not cover it either.  The costs of long term care are enormous.  The problem is that while we are living longer we still have not solved the diseases and things that erode our health but leave us alive.

Alzheimers and Parkinson's are 2 of the biggest issues long term care facilities have.  Both have very little effect on the physical part of the body but completely deteriorate the mental.  This means that the care for these people is huge in terms of manpower. 

 

The Cdn and Brit systems are struggling with this.  And the government facilities that poor people are qualified for or as you can imagine not where you want your loved one to be.

 

She may not get the quality medical care in Manila but she may be able to get the assistance for daily life if her family stays close.

[JMonroe]

2 hours ago, cardinalblue said:

Kasane

 

Do you wish to support your claim that usa doesn’t want to care for her? if she did the proper paper work and qualifies, why wouldn’t she be in the system?

 

my friends who complain about many things but one thing they don’t complain about is US Medicare coverage, As long as you follow their rules and willing to fork out the small amount of money for supplemental part B.....

 

most complainers are due to being non compliant with the regulations...

My mother and my father paid all their taxes all their lives, they paid into social security and Medicare. They were middle class. When the time came that they needed medical care for Alzheimer's and cancer, Medicare didn't cover all the costs, and the costs that weren't covered would have wiped them out. Every doctor and every hospital back home told us the exact same thing: "our healthcare system is broken." Your response shows you are living in a fantasy world, not the real world of the USA today.

[hotchilli]

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

An earlier article cited that Thai Immigration refused to acknowledge the monthly healthcare cost of 86, 000 baht as meeting the income requirement. That seems to have played into the decision. We all know that a ruling like this can vary between different locations, even within one office. Sad...

Yes I was thinking the same, I would have thought the Thai immigration would have excepted this as her income paid to the care home... now Thailand has lost a revenue as she leaves for Manila..

Short term thinking again!

[rexall]

17 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

The family has said that Thai financial requirements - notably having to have 800,000 baht kept in the bank for their mother - had forced them to seek care in Manila. 

 

   No Thai requirement whatsoever had forced them to seek care in Manila. Nobody has forced them to do so. 

It's just a figure of speech.  Come on!

Edited May 29, 2019 by rexall

[cnx355]

17 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

The family has said that Thai financial requirements - notably having to have 800,000 baht kept in the bank for their mother - had forced them to seek care in Manila. 

 

   No Thai requirement whatsoever had forced them to seek care in Manila. Nobody has forced them to do so. 

But in the Philippines they have a Human Touch visa for people that need medical care. Maybe that is a choice for them.

SRRV Human Touch

For ailing retirees, 35 years old & above, who need/require medical/clinical care. A monthly pension of at least US$1,500.00, a health insurance policy accepted in the Philippines, and an SRR Visa deposit of US$10,000.00 are required.

[essox essox]

17 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

The family has said that Thai financial requirements - notably having to have 800,000 baht kept in the bank for their mother - had forced them to seek care in Manila. 

 

   No Thai requirement whatsoever had forced them to seek care in Manila. Nobody has forced them to do so. 

cost if you read the report.....

[Thaidream]

9 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Yes I was thinking the same, I would have thought the Thai immigration would have excepted this as her income paid to the care home... now Thailand has lost a revenue as she leaves for Manila..

Short term thinking again!

A very sad situation indeed and the Immigration rules and regulations do have a clause in which an IO can make an exception to any of the  regulations.  It would have made sense to do this in this case as the women was ill; she was elderly and she was not a burden on the system as she was being cared for in a facility in Thailand that was  assisting others like her.

 

The other sad commentary on this is the number of people on this forum who criticize the family; the daughter in particular; and attribute all types of venom towards them. 

 

 I doubt any of these so called critics ever had to care for a person with a debilitating illness or a terminal condition. 

 

I have and I understand the stress this family is under.  It's not just the financial stress- it's the total hopelessness of the situation that completely takes over.  Unless you have lived it- some of you are making assumptions that are crude and downright wrong.

 

I might be able to give Thai Immigration a pass barbecue they are a bureaucracy that is rigid in its administration.  but I am not giving the posters on this subject who have gone out of their way to post unfeeling; unverified and downright  nasty comments about  this situation.

 

If these comments and criticism are coming from people who are  representative of various nationalities- I really fear for the future.  The lack of compassion; understanding and empathy is truly tragic.

[Odisan]

17 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

The family has said that Thai financial requirements - notably having to have 800,000 baht kept in the bank for their mother - had forced them to seek care in Manila. 

 

   No Thai requirement whatsoever had forced them to seek care in Manila. Nobody has forced them to do so. 

I think the point is they can't stay in Thailand. Regardless, you win today's 'Pedantic Award' (it's still early, mind).

[chicowoodduck]

She will forget she even left LOS......onward and upward....????

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, donnacha said:

People in the other threads around this story seem to be suggesting it is possible, but it costs 20K, twice the old price.

I do not personally know anyone who has done it.

I do in Bangkok.

35,000 b.

[Pedrogaz]

Sorry, but why should Thailand be a dumping ground for the world's Alzheimer's patients? All over the first world with people living longer the Alzheimer's population is exploding....why should Thailand take in any of these people....try taking her to Australia or UK and asking for free care? Or offering $1000 US per month? The daughter has taken responsibility for this woman who sadly didn't plan for her retirement very effectively....but spare us the heartbreak story, please.

[bkk6060]

2 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

Makes me want to leave Thailand. Not because of the story (I sympathize greatly) but because of the sad reflection most of the posts so far in this thread are on the expats of Thailand.

Sure, all true.

But, you need to let it go.

If every one really listened to how expats think here.  And took it personally or literally.

There would be no one left.

Edited May 29, 2019 by bkk6060

[BradinAsia]

18 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

The family has said that Thai financial requirements - notably having to have 800,000 baht kept in the bank for their mother - had forced them to seek care in Manila. 

 

   No Thai requirement whatsoever had forced them to seek care in Manila. Nobody has forced them to do so. 

 

Are you closely involved with this family? Or are you simply making ridiculous comments just to be vicious and cruel during their difficult times?

[connda]

18 hours ago, webfact said:

Some people online had claimed that the story was a publicity stunt.

Yeah, there is a subset of TV members who can find a conspiracy theory in just about anyone's misfortunes with Thai Immigration.  

[sqwakvfr]

I hope things work out in Manila because any potential goodwill that Immigration has or had is now long gone.  That bridge has been burned with portrayal of Immigration as being heartless.  Maybe a better way would have been to leave quietly and see if things work in Mania.  

[Thaidream]

5 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

orry, but why should Thailand be a dumping ground for the world's Alzheimer's patients? All over the first world with people living longer the Alzheimer's population is exploding....why should Thailand take in any of these people....try taking her to Australia or UK and asking for free care? Or offering $1000 US per month? The daughter has taken responsibility for this woman who sadly didn't plan for her retirement very effectively....but spare us the heartbreak story, please.

Why should Thailand allow people below the age of 50 to reside  in Thailand on tourist Visas; exempt entries and other machinations when they  should be working in their own countries.  Why should digital nomads be allowed into Thailand when they maybe breaking the law by working without a permit and not paying any taxes.  I say this as an example of criticism that is worthless

 

Why..Why.. Why-  Spare us the heartbreak story the poster says.

 

Remember your words and  look in the mirror. Heartbreak happens to us all.

 

 

[Kasane]

2 hours ago, suzannegoh said:

One problem in the States is that longterm healthcare in a "home" for Alzheimers patients is only covered by Medicaid and not by Medicare, and to qualify for Medicaid you need to be certifiably poor. So basically you need to completely drain your savings on mefical care or hide it away in a trust before the government would pay for it.

Yes, that's right. You have to be bankrupted by your medical situation. Only then can you switch from Medicare to Medicaid. The OP ditched that system most likely for the financial hardship it would have cost. To which system they paid all their lives. But its rich that they would now claim that the patient was "forced out" from here. Since the mother is so poor then she can certainly be on Medicaid in US.

[connda]

I'm still at a loss and will continue to be confused as to why an elderly person with a terminal disease - Alzheimer's Disease, The Long Goodbye, a slow, slow progress death - is not extended a Medical Visa for her long-term care in a Thai medical facility set up to care for Alzheimer's patients.  

I have not seen an answer to that very legitimate question yet.  Sheryl?  As our resident expert on Thai medical issues, any clues.  Ubonjoe?  As our resident expert on Thai Immigration, any clues?

[luckyluke]

3 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

because any potential goodwill that Immigration has or had is now long gone.

 Different advises/solutions have been given here.

Not understand why this family didn't post here, exposing the problem and asking advise, before deciding what they have decided ( moving the old, sick, lady to another country).

 

Or did they and I missed it?

[donnacha]

53 minutes ago, Odisan said:

I think the point is they can't stay in Thailand.

No, they are staying in Thailand. It is only her mother who is getting left in a Manila care home.

This is not pedantry. People are objecting to the way in which the daughter, instead of owning her decision, has blown up this drama and deliberately used wording that has left most members here, including you, with the impression that they are all being forced to leave by callous government bureaucracy.

She is attributing cruelty to a country that has been a good host to her family. It turns out that the $3k per month that good care costs here, although a quarter of what the same care would cost in the US, is too high a burden for the daughter. It would be for me too. So, she is leaving mum over in Manila where the cost is only $1K.

Some have argued that a good daughter would stay there with her mother rather than continue her early retirement in Thailand, others point out that her presence might make little difference to her mother.

What is certain, however, based on the facts that the daughter herself has revealed, is that her decision has nothing to do with the Thai authorities and she is quite happy to keep living here herself.

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by donnacha

[Jingthing]

But in the Philippines they have a Human Touch visa for people that need medical care. Maybe that is a choice for them.

SRRV Human Touch

For ailing retirees, 35 years old & above, who need/require medical/clinical care. A monthly pension of at least US$1,500.00, a health insurance policy accepted in the Philippines, and an SRR Visa deposit of US$10,000.00 are required.

Yes but we don't know if her pension check meets that. The average US social security check is under 1500 per month.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[donnacha]

4 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Not understand why this family didn't post here, exposing the problem and asking advise, before deciding what they have decided ( moving the old, sick, lady to another country).

 

Or did they and I missed it?

They did. There have been 3 threads, including this one, full of suggestions.

It appears that the decision had already been made long before, she is bringing her mother to Manila today.

Various other visa-related options exist, but none of those would have changed the fact that a care home in Manila costs 1/3 of what a care home in Thailand does. 

[BradinAsia]

17 hours ago, RandolphGB said:

They can't / don't want to submit the required deposit for the visa. The logical step then is to leave. Am I missing something?

 

Uhm, they have already left -- or did you miss that?

[murraynz]

3 hours ago, suzannegoh said:

One problem in the States is that longterm healthcare in a "home" for Alzheimers patients is only covered by Medicaid and not by Medicare, and to qualify for Medicaid you need to be certifiably poor. So basically you need to completely drain your savings on mefical care or hide it away in a trust before the government would pay for it.

same situation in nz...my father had dementia,due to a failed relationship, where he left her with everything..

he had NO  assets left, so he was then eligible for care in expensive rest home....

dementia/alzheimers, although not painfull, is a very cruel disease....

sometimes humourous ,though... but hugely frustrating for the patient..

[khunPer]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

This is available for $1,000 a month compared to nearly $3,000 in Thailand and $10,000 back at home in Atlanta, the family told Thaivisa. 

Saving $2,000 a month, or 66.6%, I presume that could be the main explanation...????

[Aussieroaming]

I think its a good move to Phils, she will have compassionate nurses that speak English. Not saying that the Thai carers weren't compassionate and caring, however communication is important in Alzhemers care in order to reduce confusion and fear. Having had several family members with the disease it is very difficult for all as the disease progresses. 

[donnacha]

20 minutes ago, Benroon said:

was it not also the case that she had had Alzheimers for TWELVE years before she even got here right ? Thailand should be applauded for letting her in in the first place.

Agreed, absolutely. Thailand has been a good host to them, and to all of us.

Despite all the corruption, idiocy and puffed-up buffoonery, there is a gentleness and essential civility to life in Thailand that no longer exists elsewhere. That is why we are all here. 

Sure, the ending of the embassy letter loophole has inconvenienced a lot of people, but surely everyone always understood that it was just a loophole, not some sort of right.

Are grown men really going to descend into a bitter persecution complex simply because a country tightens up a situation that would not have been affordable, for any country, as people continue to live longer and require more expensive care as they age?

Thailand continues to be a remarkably soft universe. It has its problems, of course, but we are here because it is the land of a million loopholes, not least the one that allows elderly men to live like playboys. It is hypocritical to complain when they finally get organized enough to close the one loophole that could end up bankrupting their system ???? 

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by donnacha