Welcome to Australia, will you be choosing electricity or food?!

[Ozman52]

3 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

We can rest easy in our beds

I do have a problem with those households who can afford solar panels being paid subsidies and inflated feed-in tariffs far in excess of what other generators are paid. the nett result has been steadily increasing electricity prices affecting those who can't afford panels, to the point where it has become a serious problem. That is the topic of the OP. 

[ThaiBunny]

4 minutes ago, Ozman52 said:

Well research scientist, I would love to hear your solutions for storing the energy required, and the number of renewable generators we would have to install to supply it.

Strangely enough, I also worked on a Kellog ammonium plant in Newcastle for nearly 10 years, hence my experience with Hydrogen, and know how nasty it can be. 

Could you give me a guesstimate of how many tonnes/day would need to be produced to cater for 400GWh, or do you stick to platitudes like Australia has more sunlight than anywhere else? some hard numbers go a long way to establishing credibility.

Political retards have the near impossible task of converting ill-informed voters pie-in-the-sky ideas into practical reality. 

BTW you didn't mention your field of research.

It's amazing how much ad hominem comment someone who claims objectivity as an expert in the field needs to insert into the conversation

[Ozman52]

2 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

It's amazing how much ad hominem comment someone who claims objectivity as an expert in the field needs to insert into the conversation

I claim considerable experience with an understanding of the scope and problems involved, not to be an expert. What exactly is your post meant to add to the topic?

[davidst01]

On 6/8/2019 at 11:55 AM, totally thaied up said:

Fundamentally there is nothing wrong with Thailand. I like the place but for most, it was for its affordability but that has slowly died off.  My biggest grip there is no stream for PR if you are married to a Thai. There is no protection for myself and my wife. In fact, no protection for even a Thai unless you have money. None of us would be welcome here if we did not have money. At least Australia has has a form of social protection and the such. No,  Thailand is okay as long as the powers to be see you have money.  

 

Most people don't know how to budget. I see there shopping trolleys full of name brand junk food.  No wonder why they are not saving. 

Have to agree with you that its annoying I have no PR prospects despite having wife and child and invested lots in our business. Bloody annoying to say the least. 

 

The only thais that have social protection are the ones working in the govt jobs. Its an easy lazy life working in the same team environment for 30 yrs and then you get the small pension and free hospital cover. 

[pornprong]

Utilities should never be privatised, nor healthcare.

[Rimmer]

Off topic post removed

[Lacessit]

10 hours ago, Ozman52 said:

Well research scientist, I would love to hear your solutions for storing the energy required, and the number of renewable generators we would have to install to supply it.

Strangely enough, I also worked on a Kellog ammonium plant in Newcastle for nearly 10 years, hence my experience with Hydrogen, and know how nasty it can be. 

Could you give me a guesstimate of how many tonnes/day would need to be produced to cater for 400GWh, or do you stick to platitudes like Australia has more sunlight than anywhere else? some hard numbers go a long way to establishing credibility.

Political retards have the near impossible task of converting ill-informed voters pie-in-the-sky ideas into practical reality. 

BTW you didn't mention your field of research.

You don't seem to be familiar with the maxim when you are in a hole, you should stop digging.

The chemistry is quite simple, although the execution is somewhat more sophisticated. Hydrogen is generated by electrolysis of water using solar power. It is then combined with nitrogen to form ammonia. Three atoms of hydrogen to one atom of nitrogen. Plenty of that around, in case you missed chemistry class. 78% in air.

Then reconstituted into hydrogen fuel at the delivery point in China. No wonder they are salivating.

You want hard numbers? Your Certificate in Electrical Engineering is low man on the totem pole. It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight. My academic and professional achievements far outweigh yours. I prefer not to boast publicly about them. Tell me, when were you invited to be a lead speaker at a scientific conference, as I have - several times? When were you elected a Fellow of your profession by your peers?

OK, you can say experience is better. I have that too. I'm just wondering - is your 10 years experience with hydrogen actually that, or one year's experience repeated 10 times?

 

 

 

[Ozman52]

21 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You don't seem to be familiar with the maxim when you are in a hole, you should stop digging.

The chemistry is quite simple, although the execution is somewhat more sophisticated. Hydrogen is generated by electrolysis of water using solar power. It is then combined with nitrogen to form ammonia. Three atoms of hydrogen to one atom of nitrogen. Plenty of that around, in case you missed chemistry class. 78% in air.

Then reconstituted into hydrogen fuel at the delivery point in China. No wonder they are salivating.

You want hard numbers? Your Certificate in Electrical Engineering is low man on the totem pole. It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight. My academic and professional achievements far outweigh yours. I prefer not to boast publicly about them. Tell me, when were you invited to be a lead speaker at a scientific conference, as I have - several times? When were you elected a Fellow of your profession by your peers?

OK, you can say experience is better. I have that too. I'm just wondering - is your 10 years experience with hydrogen actually that, or one year's experience repeated 10 times?

 

 

 

Yes,  I am quite familiar with the chemistry, and no, it is 30 years working with Hydrogen. The PS where I was employed had an electrolysis plant and hydrogen compression system. Amazing that someone with your claimed qualifications (related to what bee-keeping?) doesn't know that large alternators spin in Hydrogen to reduce windage friction.

My question, which seem to want to avoid with puerile chemistry, is HOW MUCH Hydrogen will need to be produced daily to store the energy required?

As you seem to want to avoid the question, I did the work for you. Combustion of 1kg of hydrogen will produce ~33.8kWh of energy, so to store 400GWh (80% of our average daily usage) we would need to produce ~12,000t of hydrogen every day, without any allowance for inclement weather. 

Complication; hydrolysis is at best 80% efficient, so add another 25% to the millions of solar panels required. Conversion to ammonia and back again efficiency? Who knows, but keep adding solar cells, because it won't be 100%.

So, given a 1kW solar panel will produce ~5kWh/d (being generous) we need 100GWh for daylight use and 400GWh x 125% for storage. Golly, that's only 120 million 1kW panels. Oh, you want to export energy - well pick a multiple and make us all bloody rich.

[Lacessit]

45 minutes ago, Ozman52 said:

Yes,  I am quite familiar with the chemistry, and no, it is 30 years working with Hydrogen. The PS where I was employed had an electrolysis plant and hydrogen compression system. Amazing that someone with your claimed qualifications (related to what bee-keeping?) doesn't know that large alternators spin in Hydrogen to reduce windage friction.

My question, which seem to want to avoid with puerile chemistry, is HOW MUCH Hydrogen will need to be produced daily to store the energy required?

As you seem to want to avoid the question, I did the work for you. Combustion of 1kg of hydrogen will produce ~33.8kWh of energy, so to store 400GWh (80% of our average daily usage) we would need to produce ~12,000t of hydrogen every day, without any allowance for inclement weather. 

Complication; hydrolysis is at best 80% efficient, so add another 25% to the millions of solar panels required. Conversion to ammonia and back again efficiency? Who knows, but keep adding solar cells, because it won't be 100%.

So, given a 1kW solar panel will produce ~5kWh/d (being generous) we need 100GWh for daylight use and 400GWh x 125% for storage. Golly, that's only 120 million 1kW panels. Oh, you want to export energy - well pick a multiple and make us all bloody rich.

I'll give you credit, alternators spinning in hydrogen is one of the best red herrings I've come across. Why would I be supposed to know that? Can you tell me what a Lewis acid is without Google?

Like many engineers, you lack imagination. Who would have thought, when the first mobile phone came out, that it would pack more computing power than a mainframe today? What makes you think energy generation and storage are not on a similar trajectory now? The 1 kW solar panel you speak of - why is it limited to 1 kW? Why is 12,000 t of hydrogen so difficult? The world seems to be able to produce more than 11 million t of oil every day.

Your posts are a good example of why AFAIK an engineer has never won a Nobel Prize in any discipline.

BTW, how many patents do you have? None? Thought so.

No, not bee-keeping. But keep going with the sarcasm, it's about all you've got.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Lacessit

[Nemises]

 

Peter’s email to a Sydney radio show yesterday: “My sole income is the age pension - due to no fault of my own. I have not used any heating for years. I live in a draughty old house and if I were to try to warm my house I would not be able to pay my rates or pay any other unavoidable bills. I eat as cheaply as possible and it’s been over six months since I’ve purchased solid meat. I prefer mince and sausages because of the reduced cost and then use them in some kind of casserole dish. I have never smoked or used alcohol. I do not ever go out to attend entertainment venues. As with other pensioners I do go to bed early and use the electric blanket to warm up. Due to the number of ongoing medical problems life is a struggle and the ever increasing costs of necessities is an unacceptable extra burden. No I do not use a mobile phone, my only extravagance is the internet on the ever unreliable NBN. Australians stand condemned for voting for governments local, state and federal that have devastated this once amazing country”.

 

Radio hosts on-air reply to Peter: “I think what Peter has done is give us an insight into how a lot of people live. Those of us who are lucky enough to have jobs and be a bit better off, probably don’t see all that often. They (people like Peter) are people who don’t complain, they don’t whinge, they go to bed early, they put on an extra jumper and so on because they can’t afford a lot of the things a lot of things that many of us take for granted. Thank you for your email Peter”.

 

Listen to the above (and other “lucky country” resident’s experiences of struggling to survive in Australia) here:

 

 

https://omny.fm/shows/george-and-paul/the-george-and-paul-full-show-podcast-9-6-2019

(Roll the tape forward to 45:00).

 

 

 

 

[Ozman52]

11 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I'll give you credit, alternators spinning in hydrogen is one of the best red herrings I've come across. Why would I be supposed to know that? Can you tell me what a Lewis acid is without Google?

Like many engineers, you lack imagination. Who would have thought, when the first mobile phone came out, that it would pack more computing power than a mainframe today? What makes you think energy generation and storage are not on a similar trajectory now? The 1 kW solar panel you speak of - why is it limited to 1 kW? Why is 12,000 t of hydrogen so difficult? The world seems to be able to produce more than 11 million t of oil every day.

Your posts are a good example of why AFAIK an engineer has never won a Nobel Prize in any discipline.

BTW, how many patents do you have? None? Thought so.

No, not bee-keeping. But keep going with the sarcasm, it's about all you've got.

Yes, it's all so easy when you have no idea of what your talking about. We engineers, even low-rated one's like me, have to make it work and keep it running. You dream of the future, while we are faced with aging coal-fired power stations and uninformed fools chanting "solar".

Solar panels are <20% efficient. If by some miracle they became 100% efficient, we would only need 24,000,000 of them to satisfy Australia's current energy needs. But if that energy is going to be used to make 12,000t of hydrogen, we would need 108,000t of water (preferably distilled) each day - in the desert where the solar panels work best. Separate the 2 and face transmission losses and increased infrastructure. Sure, that could be done, we could even multiply it up for export, but at what cost and how many years to build it and the necessary infrastructure? Oz electricity prices are high and getting higher NOW, and you can expect another spike every time an aging FFPS closes down.

Something else you may not know - because of changes in demand there are 100's of high-rated circuit breakers now running on much reduced loads, to the extent that fault currents may not be recognised causing the CB to trip. A very dangerous situation requiring expensive down-rating.

 

BTW the subject is electricity generation and storage, which you apparently know very little about, which doesn't stop you from pontificating. Google MVARs and educate yourself on just one of the problems of system control.

[oxysong]

Few years since there,but was going downhill then

 

   You Aussies,just need a bit of spare land in the outback,couple of shipping containers bolted together,large skip for swimming pool,hey presto ! paradise

[madmen]

Nanny state would declare it as sacred aboriginal land and rip it straight down

Sent from my star using Tapatalk

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, Ozman52 said:

Yes, it's all so easy when you have no idea of what your talking about. We engineers, even low-rated one's like me, have to make it work and keep it running. You dream of the future, while we are faced with aging coal-fired power stations and uninformed fools chanting "solar".

Solar panels are <20% efficient. If by some miracle they became 100% efficient, we would only need 24,000,000 of them to satisfy Australia's current energy needs. But if that energy is going to be used to make 12,000t of hydrogen, we would need 108,000t of water (preferably distilled) each day - in the desert where the solar panels work best. Separate the 2 and face transmission losses and increased infrastructure. Sure, that could be done, we could even multiply it up for export, but at what cost and how many years to build it and the necessary infrastructure? Oz electricity prices are high and getting higher NOW, and you can expect another spike every time an aging FFPS closes down.

Something else you may not know - because of changes in demand there are 100's of high-rated circuit breakers now running on much reduced loads, to the extent that fault currents may not be recognised causing the CB to trip. A very dangerous situation requiring expensive down-rating.

 

BTW the subject is electricity generation and storage, which you apparently know very little about, which doesn't stop you from pontificating. Google MVARs and educate yourself on just one of the problems of system control.

Given the number of cockups by engineers I've had to sort out during my working life, you'll have to excuse me for not thinking highly of your profession. Many are illiterate when it comes to physics and chemistry. I suppose I should not complain, it provided me with a good living when I was an employee and then a consultant.

My comment about world oil production went straight through to the wicketkeeper. I'll explain it for you, call the chemistry puerile if you want.

The investment in world oil production is gigantic. I think we can both agree on that.

Let's say the average carbon chain in crude oil is C20. That's a gross simplification, given the complexity of crude oil. I'll go even further and call all of it paraffinic.

Applying the formula CnH ( 2n+2 ), there are 42 hydrogen atoms in crude oil as opposed to 20 carbon atoms. Applying atomic weights, hydrogen is about 15% of crude oil composition. So the world is busy extracting 1.65 million tonnes of hydrogen in association with carbon every day. Next to that, 12,000 tonnes of hydrogen produced by solar panels is small beer.

I don't know whether thermodynamics was ever part of your training. Take it from me entropy is at work, and the choice is to fry or get clever.

Solar panels are < 20 percent efficient now. Bill Gates has been quoted as saying 640K of memory should be more than anyone needs. Scientists generate innovation. Many engineers are just glorified mechanics with a fancy title.

Certainly there are things I don't know. Every scientist worth their salt will admit that. You have already proved there are things you don't know. However, I'm not the one sticking my head in the sand and saying business as usual.

 

 

[DavisH]

After tax, my paltry teaching salary in LoS is not far off the Australia average after tax. I don't know how they manage on $800 or so a week. Most o the rest is blown on food, rent, electricity, hot water, etc. 

[Ozman52]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Given the number of cockups by engineers I've had to sort out during my working life, you'll have to excuse me for not thinking highly of your profession. Many are illiterate when it comes to physics and chemistry. I suppose I should not complain, it provided me with a good living when I was an employee and then a consultant.

My comment about world oil production went straight through to the wicketkeeper. I'll explain it for you, call the chemistry puerile if you want.

The investment in world oil production is gigantic. I think we can both agree on that.

Let's say the average carbon chain in crude oil is C20. That's a gross simplification, given the complexity of crude oil. I'll go even further and call all of it paraffinic.

Applying the formula CnH ( 2n+2 ), there are 42 hydrogen atoms in crude oil as opposed to 20 carbon atoms. Applying atomic weights, hydrogen is about 15% of crude oil composition. So the world is busy extracting 1.65 million tonnes of hydrogen in association with carbon every day. Next to that, 12,000 tonnes of hydrogen produced by solar panels is small beer.

I don't know whether thermodynamics was ever part of your training. Take it from me entropy is at work, and the choice is to fry or get clever.

Solar panels are < 20 percent efficient now. Bill Gates has been quoted as saying 640K of memory should be more than anyone needs. Scientists generate innovation. Many engineers are just glorified mechanics with a fancy title.

Certainly there are things I don't know. Every scientist worth their salt will admit that. You have already proved there are things you don't know. However, I'm not the one sticking my head in the sand and saying business as usual.

 

 

Equating the Hydrogen component of crude oil extraction to that produced by solar powered hydrolysis borders on the most moronic strawman argument conceivable. 

 

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Ozman52 said:

Equating the Hydrogen component of crude oil extraction to that produced by solar powered hydrolysis borders on the most moronic strawman argument conceivable. 

 

All you seem capable of is sarcasm and insults. I should have known better than to try to have an intelligent discussion with you, given my past history with engineers.

[4MyEgo]

On 6/8/2019 at 1:25 PM, totally thaied up said:

I will never have to shell out any money for rent. I have more than enough to buy a house outright. Most cannot do that, so years of hard work previously paid off.

 

My praise for Australia would not be less muted. When you are ill, have a free healthcare system here that provides and gives you all most everything, your born in a lucky country. Just recently I was accepted into a study for free. All of my medications have been free, all the DNA testing free and it has benefited me no end.

 

No Thailand is okay but I understand now which side my bread is buttered on and it certainly is not Thailand.

The economics wins hands down if you live in Thailand Vs Australia from a retirement perspective.

 

The above said I am talking outside of the usual Xpat receiving a pensioner in Thailand because I know living in Thailand would be hard on a pension with the decline of the AUD, but it would be harder to live on Australia.

 

I have a family of 6, that's 2 adults and 4 kids ranging from 5 to 15, we have full emergency private hospital cover here, one policy for me with a pre-existing condition, and one policy for the wife and 4 kids, seperate insurance companies, and covers of up to 1.2USD and 500,000USD.

 

All the kids go to private schools, we have a registered car paid off which we insure with comprehensive insurance cover annually, house paid off with house insurance.

 

We live a comfortable life, not splurgers in any shape or form, but if we want something and I feel it is warranted, we will purchase it.

 

We have annual holidays within Thailand and do travel back to Australia for between 7-14 days, but usually 7 days as the cost to remain in Sydney is very expensive, especially when you have kids because hotels do not accommodate for your big family unless your prepared to take additional rooms for more $ so it's Airbnb and that can cost you $2,000 to $3,000 to be within 15km of the CBD and within 5km of the airport.

 

My budget for the last year here in Thailand was 60,000 baht per month inclusive of all of the above, excluding private school fees, medical insurances, house & car insurances, holidays domestically and to Australia, so it is more so 100,000 baht per month.

 

That said with the AUD declining I am looking at reducing the annual trips to Sydney to once every 2 years or I continue to go myself annually to visit my mum and my adult daughter/friends, however unlikely on an annual basis.

 

So what I am saying is, to live in Thailand for a family of 6, with house and car paid off, your up for around $650AUD a week, add the other stuff, it's more like a grand AUD, now you couldn't do that in Sydney, you would need double that alone.

 

All I am saying is Australia is a beautiful country and offers a lot of benefits, but if you have money and wish to retire much earlier than most, Thailand is a great alternative to live your life, as opposed to being a slave to survive, remember you work 5/7th, probably 6/7th of your life, but what is left of your life when you get there ?

 

Retiring at 55 and moving to Thailand has worked very well for me and the family, worse case scenario if we ever felt it was getting to expensive or wasn't going according to plan, we could always move back.

 

I hear CentreLink would welcome us with warm arms throwing a minimum of $30,000 per annum to us just on family A & B payments for the kids, rental assistance and NewStart payments if we qualify, yep sure is the lucky country for some.

 

 

[madmen]

On 6/10/2019 at 5:21 AM, Nemises said:

 

Peter’s email to a Sydney radio show yesterday: “My sole income is the age pension - due to no fault of my own. I have not used any heating for years. I live in a draughty old house and if I were to try to warm my house I would not be able to pay my rates or pay any other unavoidable bills. I eat as cheaply as possible and it’s been over six months since I’ve purchased solid meat. I prefer mince and sausages because of the reduced cost and then use them in some kind of casserole dish. I have never smoked or used alcohol. I do not ever go out to attend entertainment venues. As with other pensioners I do go to bed early and use the electric blanket to warm up. Due to the number of ongoing medical problems life is a struggle and the ever increasing costs of necessities is an unacceptable extra burden. No I do not use a mobile phone, my only extravagance is the internet on the ever unreliable NBN. Australians stand condemned for voting for governments local, state and federal that have devastated this once amazing country”.

 

Radio hosts on-air reply to Peter: “I think what Peter has done is give us an insight into how a lot of people live. Those of us who are lucky enough to have jobs and be a bit better off, probably don’t see all that often. They (people like Peter) are people who don’t complain, they don’t whinge, they go to bed early, they put on an extra jumper and so on because they can’t afford a lot of the things a lot of things that many of us take for granted. Thank you for your email Peter”.

 

Listen to the above (and other “lucky country” resident’s experiences of struggling to survive in Australia) here:

 

 

https://omny.fm/shows/george-and-paul/the-george-and-paul-full-show-podcast-9-6-2019

(Roll the tape forward to 45:00).

 

 

 

 

Doesn't sound right. A single man with some research shows and average of  $176/month for electricity about what Im paying here in bangkok. His pension is around $1700/month? . He makes no mention if he pays rent or owns the house.

Food is not that expensive, he could simply buy a slow cooker and buy the toughest cheapest meat he can find (turns out nice n soft) and throw it in with veges and its a fantastic dirt cheap meals for several days

 

He doesn't drink or smoke so that saves a lot of money. Hard to comment further without knowing housing arrangement. Doubt he is renting a whole house and if he is then there lies his problem, not a wise move

Basic (Electricity, Heating, Cooling, Water, Garbage) for 85m2 Apartment

A$176.23

A$100.00 - A$340.00

[Nemises]

Doesn't sound right. A single man with some research shows and average of  $176/month for electricity about what Im paying here in bangkok. His pension is around $1700/month? . He makes no mention if he pays rent or owns the house. Food is not that expensive, he could simply buy a slow cooker and buy the toughest cheapest meat he can find (turns out nice n soft) and throw it in with veges and its a fantastic dirt cheap meals for several days  

He doesn't drink or smoke so that saves a lot of money. Hard to comment further without knowing housing arrangement. Doubt he is renting a whole house and if he is then there lies his problem, not a wise move

 

 

Basic (Electricity, Heating, Cooling, Water, Garbage) for 85m2 Apartment

A$176.23

A$100.00 - A$340.00

  

Your “research” on pensioners noted. Unfortunately it seems to differ from PROFESSIONAL research by Monash University (& Flinders University) who confirm that MIDDLE INCOMERS are also struggling to put food on the table. If the below is correct, then God help the pensioners!

 

 

MIDDLE-income families are among those having trouble putting food on the table at times because of stretched budgets, research has found.

A study involving Melbourne households found some mums reduced their own portion sizes or skip meals when money was tight so children didn’t go without.

Others relentlessly chased grocery specials at different stores and hosted occasional “bring a plate” dinners with friends to manage, the Monash University investigation revealed.

Research published in The International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health found food insecurity was not restricted to people on low incomes, and could extend to the middle class.

Food insecurity is described as limited or uncertain access to enough nutritious food.

Monash University researcher and public health dietitian Sue Kleve said families juggling housing, grocery, utility and other costs could at times be pushed to the brink by unexpected medical or other bills, or cuts to casual or contract work hours.

“We are talking about people who are employed, who have a roof over their head and a mortgage,” Dr Kleve said.

“Food insecurity leads to stress, anxiety and concern about having enough food, enough money for food. You might have to buy cheaper choices, which are higher in energy and lower in nutrition.

“It’s like mortgage stress but with food — food stress.”

The research, in collaboration with Flinders University, surveyed 134 people and found a third had experienced food stress. In-depth interviews were then held with 16 people from households with annual before-tax incomes of $40,000 to $80,000 about their food experiences.

Dr Kleve said some grew vegies in pots, or always had tinned food in the pantry to prepare basic, cheap meals.

“One woman talked about ensuring the household had fruit and vegetables but at times was so challenged at the end of the week she had to feed a family of three with a $5 pizza,” she said.

“Another said friends regularly bought her basics such as toilet paper so she had an extra $10 for food.”

Dr Kleve said most already had good budgeting and home cooking skills, so policies for affordable food and utilities, and more secure employment, were also needed.

 

 

 

[totally thaied up]

When I flew back into Bangkok the other night, all I could look at from the plane was the never-ending traffic jams on the roads. Instead of a sigh of relief, I just thought I have to get used to driving through all this shit again. It was not a happy thought. As I hopped through Immigration I had to remind myself sternly about going into the Immigration office early the next day to do my TM30. When my wife flew into Australia, she just breezed in through Immigration and we had no other thoughts about having to report till she left the country in 90 days. The fact was she could have applied for a bridging visa and for us never to have left the country again made me think twice about it all. 

 

For me, I am not saving money staying in Thailand. It is the opposite in fact. After all my health cover is paid out for the year and ongoing medical conditions, it costs me, in fact, a lot more. The only bills I have in Australia are rates and insurance for the house and car. They are in fact less then my health insurance and hospital bills I pay per year here. All my medical if free and that saves me thousands a year. All up I am just going backward due to my health.

 

I would not advise anyone to come to Thailand if they have ongoing health issues as I have if they come from a system of free health care like us Australians. It would be different of course if you were an American or came from a user pays system. I need to stay here due to I married a Thai National and it will be years before she gets PR in Australia. The fact is if you own your own house, own your own car and you eat at home, it is just as cheap to stay in Australia IF you are careful. If you did not own your own house and had to rent, it would be a different story. 

 

Pretty much all, when you get older you will be looking for better health care and even maybe nursing home conditions for when you cannot look after yourself. Most of my elderly friends here are only maybe 5-8 years away from needing such services but they all think they are just going to all one day drop dead. My Grandmother took 6 years to die and needed care the whole time. And Uncle of mine has Dementia and needs care and it will be years before he dies.

 

Everything is not as simple as what you think. I am not having a rant here about how bad Thailand is because it is okay and is my second home but it has limitations that many will not think about until something like the above happens to you and you have no place to go. Once you burn your bridges, going back would be almost impossible to do and being left out on a limb here would be a nightmare. I will never cut my ties in Australia now whereas before I thought I would just sell up all my shares and property and move to Thailand full time. I think having a Plan B is always a must.

 

 

[Nemises]

^ Most of the last post is off-topic.

Topic is about exorbitant AU electricity & food costs. You do briefly mention AU food costs and good to see you agree by saying it’s only affordable if “you eat at home” and “IF you are careful”.

Sorry to hear about your poor state of health. Maybe you could offer expat health care advice on another, more appropriate thread? Take care mate.

 

[madmen]

16 hours ago, Nemises said:

We are talking about people who are employed, who have a roof over their head and a mortgage

unfortunately this had nothing to do with pensioners

[Nemises]

unfortunately this had nothing to do with pensioners

Correct. It was not about pensioners, it was about two different Australian university researches which both conclude that AU middle incomers cannot afford to put proper food on the table - see Post # 140.