Need advice on marital situation

[OzFlyer]

57 minutes ago, madmen said:

let me get this straight your both Australian citizens or are able to live there full time and your wife insists on living in Issan?

No she does not have PR in Australia. She was on a non-PR visas (working holiday, tourist with me as sponsor).  We discussed a partner visa but never got around to doing it and by then we were in Thailand anyway. Our plan was that we would eventually apply for the partner visa and move back to Melbourne for schooling but she had a change of heart and doesn't want to live there (no family there, boring compared to Thailand, doesn't like the culture etc.). With the business in Thailand she is firmly committed to making Thai Baht and her business and financial networks are well established now. In Australia she in basically on her own and only has a few Thai friends in Melbourne.

 

I am Aussie and my kids have Thai+Aussie passports.

 

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, BestB said:

Yeah, I do not fall for bs easily 

Neither do I. A $700,000 legal bill?

[OzFlyer]

42 minutes ago, seajae said:

someone can correct me if I am wrong but when my wife takes a loan I have to counter sign as her husband even though it is just in her name. When I queried this she informed me it is thai law that the husband needs to sign the agreement as well, same with transfer of land etc( both just recently twice  for our land and the bank loan), my signature was needed to make it official. If you didnt sign off on the loan/land etc then it may have not been done legally

I have very little idea how she obtains finance. I am assuming it's a bank of sorts, a private lender...In Thailand there is always a way around the system anyway. I can't speak or read Thai and even if I questioned the legimitacy and sought a lawyer, they would milk me. How she secured finance is something I don't want to query to be honest with you.

[OzFlyer]

16 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

None of our business, but what was your wife from Isaan doing in Australia when you met her?

What was her job or was she a "tourist"? 

Working holiday, working as a tour guide and translator for Thai people. Her parents have money and funded her stay in Melbourne (pay rent, bills etc.). She wasn't making much coin in Melbourne. They aren't Thai Chinese btw...just upper middle class Thais. From what I've seen here, there are many wealthy Thais in Issan if you are introduced to them. The other 85% don't have money, let's be honest.

[BestB]

16 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Neither do I. A $700,000 legal bill?

Yes, it. Called legal fees, charged by lawyers for people who have little more than monthly salary and when court proceedings take a few years as there is a lot to cut up

Edited July 5, 2019 by BestB

[Just Weird]

57 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Assets and debts acquired during marriage are considered joint property in Thailand.  As a result, many Thais, particularly business people, do not register their marriages to avoid this very issue.  

So if my wife takes on a loan in her sole name with no countersigning or guaranteeing or any other input from me or knowledge about it, you're claiming that her debt automatically becomes mine also?  That's novel.

[mike787]

3 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

There are two children involved here, and they require consideration in this.

She and the thai family can raise them.  Or they can come to Australia, joint custody is an option, and the attorneys can decide who has physical custody. Kids will be fine, they will not be diagnosed with terminal cancer.  Life goes on.  He needs to do the right thing because she cannot and or will not. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by mike787

[OzFlyer]

My question is, why would someone from Maha Sarakham have an aversion to living in (say) Chiang Mai, Phuket or Hat Yai for better schooling? Is it because her parents have brainwashed her? How do I convince a Thai to get the f*k out of Issan, wake up and realise if you want kids with a proper education, then they need to leave Issan?

 

[SteveK]

Even if in Thailand it is possible for a wife to obtain jointly-owned finance behind her husbands back, and I'm thinking this would be from loan-sharks only, the Australian legal system would never accept such an absurdity. If your children have Australian passports as you state, then there is a possibility of getting custody of them under some false pretenses and then fleeing with them. A bit unscrupulous to do so, but nowhere near as unscrupulous as she may become in the future.

 

If she then wants to chase you in Australia for debts to a loan-shark or custody of the children, it will be almost impossible for her to do so.

Edited July 5, 2019 by SteveK

[OzFlyer]

2 minutes ago, SteveK said:

Even if in Thailand it is possible for a wife to obtain jointly-owned finance behind her husbands back, and I'm thinking this would be from loan-sharks only, the Australian legal system would never accept such an absurdity. If your children have Australian passports as you state, then there is a possibility of getting custody for them under some false pretenses and then fleeing with them. A bit unscrupulous to do so, but nowhere near as unscrupulous as she may become in the future.

Doing a runner with the kids? Surely I would get stopped at BKK/DMK and thrown in the slammer for kidnapping or stopped in Australia by the police. I've never travelled alone with them outside of Thailand.

Edited July 5, 2019 by OzFlyer
Scenario extended to Australia

[SteveK]

How can you kidnap your own children? If anyone asks you're just taking them to see their grandparents.

Edited July 5, 2019 by SteveK

[potless]

4 hours ago, OzFlyer said:

What should I do?

If everything you say is true, as painful as it may be, you have to split. if you do that you have to plan it to give yourself some sort of leverage. Firstly keep her very short of money. It will make it harder for her to afford legal advice and get both of you bogged down in a financial quagmire, or her to follow you back to oz.  Threaten to stop working or similar. She wont like that. You may then be able to get her to negotiate a sensible arrangement thats fair to both of you. It may sound harsh to some but Its far better than the usual crap of solicitors negotiating on your behalf and racking up bills and causing further animosity {they are experts at that}. You only get a solicitor for signing things that are absolutely necessary. Finally, if anyone is thinking of getting married, my 3 rules are  1  See a solicitor BEFORE you get married.                                                             2 Never get a joint bank account unless you have a much larger one for yourself hidden away.                                                                                                                      3 On your planned wedding day, be somewhere else. Anywhere else.                           Good luck.                                                                                                                         

Edited July 5, 2019 by potless

[mike787]

To the OP.  

You already know what the issue is and what to do, you're just figuring out the moving parts, the HOW (all the moving parts will fit and move).  Don't worry it will all work out. You have a priceless commodity many do not - TIME.  Do not fund her decisions with your money.  That is her responsibility, NOT yours.  Seek legal counsel at least to be informed privately, it will come in handy regardless if you stay or leave.  Your legal knowldege will position you with options, that's the best place to be.  Many expats fall in love with Thai women only to be destroyed in so many ways, you are not required to set yourself on fire to keep others warm...remember that.

Edited July 5, 2019 by mike787

[sead]

She got what she needed and wanted from you.

[SteveK]

2 minutes ago, sead said:

She got what she needed and wanted from you.

Sad, but probably true.

[CHdiver]

5 hours ago, OzFlyer said:

She has also threatened me with divorce if I don't pay up

I think that is the answer. I would never let me put under such a pressure. That has nothing to do with love anymore, it is just a business transaction imho. Get out asap. Only bad thing may be, you got married in Oz so I guess the law of Australia will apply to a divorce. However I think it will not get cheaper if you wait, it will just cost more money.

[mike787]

31 minutes ago, potless said:

If everything you say is true, as painful as it may be, you have to split. if you do that you have to plan it to give yourself some sort of leverage. Firstly keep her very short of money. It will make it harder for her to afford legal advice and get both of you bogged down in a financial quagmire, or her to follow you back to oz.  Threaten to stop working or similar. She wont like that. You may then be able to get her to negotiate a sensible arrangement thats fair to both of you. It may sound harsh to some but Its far better than the usual crap of solicitors negotiating on your behalf and racking up bills and causing further animosity {they are experts at that}. You only get a solicitor for signing things that are absolutely necessary. Finally, if anyone is thinking of getting married, my 3 rules are  1  See a solicitor BEFORE you get married.                                                             2 Never get a joint bank account unless you have a much larger one for yourself hidden away.                                                                                                                      3 On your planned wedding day, be somewhere else. Anywhere else.                           Good luck.                                                                                                                         

Potless is right!  You MUST begin positioning yourself for extrication.  If you do not, she WILL destroy you.  You cannot hope/pray she will be merciful.  This is a high stakes game of time and money, play to win at all cost, be as strategic as possible.  DO not take anything for granted/let your guard down, and do not go soft or weak.  Rest long after it is over. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by mike787

[FritsSikkink]

4 hours ago, pookondee said:

You have done what many others would have avoided at all costs.

That is, marry a Thai and have kids. As long as you are here you are completely trapped.

 

I dont know the answer for your situation.

The only way you will come out unscathed is to do it Thai (man) style, do a runner to Australia and do not look back.

 

Sadly, even when married most Thai women cant understand that money is not a never ending commodity.

 

The thing with you is, being married means you are liable for half the debt she racks up, and she knows it

Thats why she will go on spending spree, buy up assets, businesses etc

knowing they will eventually force you to pay for it all

 

When you run out of money and go home, you cannot take houses, cars and business with you right?

 

Thats when she will sell up and cash in everything you paid out,

and probably do it a 50% loss.

Doesnt matter to them at all as its all free money.

do a runner now while you still have your sanity and money.

 

 

Run away from your kids, nice parental skills

[Rimkok]

18 minutes ago, OzFlyer said:

Doing a runner with the kids? Surely I would get stopped at BKK/DMK and thrown in the slammer for kidnapping or stopped in Australia by the police. I've never travelled alone with them outside of Thailand.

Mate, a couple of things to consider. Firstly there is a good International School in Essan called St Stephens but it is very pricey. It is also a little out of the way. Most likely this is not your best option.

Failing that I would look at taking the kids back to Australia. Play the long game with the wife, be smart. Go along with her but at the same time tighten the purse strings. Write off what you think you own in Thailand. At the first opportunity take the kids to Australia for a "holiday" without the wife and don't come back. No problem getting the kids out of Thailand. I have done it a number of times and never been questioned, buy a return ticket.

The third option is doing the Thai Male way. Just do a runner!!

I would be planning for option 2.

[MeePeeMai]

1 hour ago, Enki said:

No, he is not. There is no country in the world where one partner in a marriage is liable for the other partners debts.

Which world are you referring to?  Not this world.

 

I had to pay ALL of my ex-wife's credit card debt (which she racked up all by herself and without my knowledge) by order of the judge in my divorce hearing (in the good old USA).  I also had to pay 100% of her divorce lawyers fees and ALL OTHER debts which we made together while we were married.

 

This was because she quit her job two weeks before our hearing (on the advice of her attorney) and started sobbing and gave the judge a story about needing to go back to school to get a second degree "so she could find a job in her chosen profession".  The judge didn't even want to hear from me or my attorney.  

 

She got off scott free with child support and alimony and had ZERO debts afterwards.  I had to sleep in my car for over a year until I could get a place to sleep and shower (and I had a good paying job at that time).

[mike787]

1 minute ago, MeePeeMai said:

Which world are you referring to?  Not this world.

 

I had to pay ALL of my ex-wife's credit card debt (which she racked up all by herself and without my knowledge) by order of the judge in my divorce hearing (in the good old USA).  I also had to pay 100% of her divorce lawyers fees and ALL OTHER debts which we made together while we were married.

 

This was because she quit her job two weeks before our hearing (on the advice of her attorney) and started sobbing and gave the judge a story about needing to go back to school to get a second degree "so she could find a job in her chosen profession".  The judge didn't even want to hear from me or my attorney.  

 

She got off scott free with child support and alimony and had ZERO debts afterwards.  I had to sleep in my car for over a year until I could get a place to sleep and shower (and I had a good paying job at that time).

I think Enki is a time traveler (jumper).  Other worlds have evolved to a higher existence, though not this one yet. 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Sadly, she may be getting advise as to how to milk you for all you are worth...

 

If the relationship can not be salvaged, cut her loose and salvage what money you can...

 

Gratitude is in short supply in Thailand...

Agree, who is pushing her?

 

 

[wisperone]

Same story, different day.

[mike787]

17 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Run away from your kids, nice parental skills

it aint that bad, at least they're with an intelligent responsible parent. 

[LomSak27]

5 hours ago, OzFlyer said:

I eventually need to go back to Australia to solidify my business. There's no future here for me as I can't speak Thai and don't want to be a teacher earning a rubbish salary.

You have answered your post/questions.

Good luck with your future plans, try not to be bitter about it. Think of it as a learning experience.

[Puchaiyank]

20 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Agree, who is pushing her?

 

 

My guess is the parents want him out of the picture so they can raise the grandchildren...taking as much of his money as they can as he is forced to leave...happens all too often...

[KhaoNiaw]

1 hour ago, OzFlyer said:

My question is, why would someone from Maha Sarakham have an aversion to living in (say) Chiang Mai, Phuket or Hat Yai for better schooling? Is it because her parents have brainwashed her? How do I convince a Thai to get the f*k out of Issan, wake up and realise if you want kids with a proper education, then they need to leave Issan?

 

Out of interest, where did your wife get her education? Most of those wealthy Issan Thais you're talking about don't put their kids into the local schools. Private schools in Bangkok, then university. 

[473geo]

Go back to Oz concentrate on keeping your business in good shape, come back in six months for a visit if you feel like it

You are not really required at the moment regarding the children, but quite possibly in the future, if you hold yourself together, don't make unreasonable demands, go with flow a little, you may well be included in their lives and future.

[NanLaew]

The OP's wife is a gambler. A BIG one as well. He should get shot of her as quickly and as peaceably as he can, regardless of the cost. She's threatening the OP with divorce so he should either agree or sue for divorce himself.

[watcharacters]

6 hours ago, OzFlyer said:

Hi all, I've been a lurker for a while

 

Just curious.

 

If you've been a lurker for a while and chose not to participate how is it you didn't learn from the countless threads addressing this very  type  of matter?