Need advice on marital situation

[stancatts]

Wow. That is a tricky one. Being married in Australia means that your marriage is subject to Australian law, which means if she is as cunning as you describe, she will divorce you under Australian law (make sure the divorce is under Thai law and hope your wife does not know the implications of doing it under Oz law). I think the kids are gone - sorry I know this is the hard part. Your wife has the possibility of the best of both worlds - financial settlement in Oz; and kids settlement under thai law (which means you have no say whatsoever about your kids). All you can do is damage control. First see a very good divorce lawyer in Thailand and Oz.  Then protect your assets in Oz from the Family Court. All you can do for your kids is pay for the best education in Isan (pay direct to school, not to your wife) and assume you will never see them again - there are good private schools there - and this could be conditional on your wife cooperating in some way. If you love your dear wife (hard to imagine why other than she is the mother of your kids), perhaps the best thing to do is go back to Oz, STOP giving ANY money to her, but offer to do so if she and the kids return to live in Oz. The only reason Isan is bearable for her is your money. She will blow what she has already got quickly and then perhaps she will be open to an offer of reconciliation in Oz. Don't think about whether she will <deleted> around in your absence because she will. You will just have to forget that infidelity if you want to reconcile in Oz. Best of luck. There are many lessons from your story. The first is keep your love life in one jurisdiction and your financial life in another.

 

 

   

[THE REVERAND]

Another BUFFALO where do these FARANGS get their brains from maybe between their legs. This relationship would begin with I love you, I love you and will finish with I have a Thai Husband as well. Cut your losses and get back to Australia A.S.A.P. tell her Your Mother Is Dying . 

[Travelerusa40]

Try to communicate with your wife. You can't read Thai or communicate Thai so you really do not have any oversight of her activities or money unless you hire an outside independent analyst or fully trust your wife 100%. I think your solution is very simple - Stop giving her money and access thereto. Give her a little house hold budget. 

 

 

[Travelerusa40]

You may not need to go back to OZ like the above Stancatts mentioned but just move and stop giving her money. Move to CM, BKK, etc.. She will follow you to safe "FACE". It's like a wake up call. But do have a conversation and have a game plan on where you want to move in Thailand and how it will also benefits the kids. If she does not move within a few months to join you then you will know the value of your relationship. Look at like the acid test. We either are our we are not going to make this work.

 

 

What worries me is you are to early in a relationship to be building a house where you have no recourse to get any money back if she throws you to the curb. This is a red flag for me. Major con job by thai girls and their families. Just do a search about this on line. If you were married 10 or 15 years then possible build a house together but 3 years, I don't think so. Also, it cheaper to rent then to build. in Most the time it is a nightmare and total waist of money. Blog this as well about Thai Construction for FRANG and new Wife. You can rent a nice 3 bedroom house in Thailand for $600 to $800 in CM, BKK, ETC. Also, they keep changing the laws to stay in Thailand. Not a good idea to get dug in and through all your savings into building a home. Thai immigration laws are trying to get all your money in a Thai bank inorder to stay in Thailand. They are starting with those who have an O-A Visa (retirement) but I see this changing for Marriage visa as well in the near future. Just an example of how things change - so not a good Idea to spend all your reserve and savings on Home, business that you can not audit, and Crazy spending habbits of your wife.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OzFlyer]

10 minutes ago, Travelerusa40 said:

Try to communicate with your wife. You can't read Thai or communicate Thai so you really do not have any oversight of her activities or money unless you hire an outside independent analyst or fully trust your wife 100%. I think your solution is very simple - Stop giving her money and access thereto. Give her a little house hold budget. 

 

 

I have already cut the funds down in a major way.

 

Btw, squeezing me financially in Australia won't happen as my assets are in trusts with my parents. I've already done the homework having witnessed family members being taken to the cleaners. I guess she can claim a fraction of these trusts but not 100%. Furthermore, she would need a good lawyer to figure out how to dismantle my trust. She can't even enter Australia on her current visa status and I this will cost her alot of time and money to pursue and I doubt she has the means to do it. Why would she live in Australia anyway? her prospects of employment are limited. She knows how expensive Melbourne is as a single person.

 

Even still, I told her ,if we ever got divorced one day I won't be returning to Australia and you'll never find me or be able to visit me anyway or take anything. I usually say "I'm going to live in Dubai if things go south" which she interprets as she basically has no hope of getting any money out of me. 

 

From my perspective and I think she knows it, if I was to pack up, she would be up sh*t creek without a paddle. The kids would be totally gone but she would have no money from me whatsoever.

 

Back to what I was saying earlier, I think the threat of divorce could be Issan Thai b/s but I won't be paying her a single cent. I am more interested in whether I am able to convince a stubborn Thai lady with upper middle class parents living in Issan to get the hell out of miserable Maha Sarakham?

[OzFlyer]

35 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

This appearance of being wealthy combined with the OP's assertions that her own business is profitable albeit he doesn't have the language skills to be 100% assured as to where her revenue is coming from, still leads me to consider she's gambling. I don't mean she's having a flutter on the state lottery or the moobahn numbers game but suggesting she's actually running one of the latter. These are hugely lucrative and provide substantial bi-monthly 'income' for the organizers. However, it's not unknown for them to live well beyond their means, get sucked into the 'my money' fallacy before being caught woefully short when a player has won and thus claims a substantial amount or when a partner wants to cash-out of the venture.

Can you explain what you mean by this? Is it a gambling syndicate of sorts? How would she be able to do from home as she rarely goes out? She isn't playing blackjack at the local den unless she is sneaking out at night and switching off the CCTV which runs 24/7.

[RJRS1301]

The more I read, the more I get the feeling the relationship seems to have very little if any stability in it other than the sharing of the children.

It seems to me that you have made your mind up about financial support for your wife, your assets in Melbourne appear to have been safeguarded a while ago, so it reads like it is all over besides looking for the future support of the children.

I have not seen you mention your wife in any positive terms, or the relationship being anything other than about finances. 

Good luck ,

[Travelerusa40]

You Stated:

 

"There was a loose understanding which I told her to start paying me back the 1MB once her business makes money. Her business is making money as I have personally seen her transactions. I would estimate in the past 9 months she's made 3MB revenue easy."

 

New business hmmm 9 months 3MB? My saying has always been "Trust - but Verify". If you can not do a 100% audit in English so you can see the full picture you can not understand how much one is really making as Net Profit. (Revenue - Expenses ... plus on hand inventory records}. You can Scan and send everything to an agency to translate the information so you can do a proper audit. Should not cost very much. CM, BKK, have these services. If transaction reports can be manipulated you will need to examine this as well. You should be able to tell by looking at her bank accounts to see if any transaction were posted from another account to inflate the transaction account she is showing you. If she is earning money from abroad I can possibly see this but inside Thailand - highly suspicous?

[kevvy]

14 hours ago, mike787 said:

Looks like she can empty a foreigner like an ATM machine spitting bills out and fast!  Be careful, these thais can suck you dry down to your soul, and not in good way.  Like sleeping with the enemy and fatal fiancial attraction all in one....rent them, DO NOT buy them.  Not worth the loss.  Remember: price is what you pay, value is what you get.  Most of the time with Thai women there is an inversely proportionate relationship in these 2 variables...

Wow , rent them??? what a real piece of work you are .There are thousands of us "Farangs "who have loving and considerate wives . Ones that will help you when you are down , ones that will share your happiest, your dreams . I cannot believe comments like yours are made to hurt Thai ladies.

[geisha]

Sorry, you don’t have a choice. Get a good lawyer , divorce, and put in for visiting rights immediately. You won’t get custody. Go back to OZ and send her upkeep and school fees for her children. At their age, you have time to sort that out. Do it all now, the longer you wait the worse it will become. 

[RJRS1301]

6 minutes ago, kevvy said:

Wow , rent them??? what a real piece of work you are .There are thousands of us "Farangs "who have loving and considerate wives . Ones that will help you when you are down , ones that will share your happiest, your dreams . I cannot believe comments like yours are made to hurt Thai ladies.

I feel this is the attitude towards women in general for some posters, shows a lack of respect,

I wonder how they would feel if similar attitudes were expressed towards their female relatives.

 

[soalbundy]

22 hours ago, Enki said:

No, he is not. There is no country in the world where one partner in a marriage is liable for the other partners debts.

Almost right, I don't think he would be liable for her business dealings if he doesn't sign on the dotted line but there are other liabilities, my estranged wife cost me 3 million Baht in damages she inflicted on others when she drove without a license, I was living 1,000 km away at the time, after the guilty verdict the court took the money from my account without so much as a 'by your leave' as she had no income.

Edited July 6, 2019 by soalbundy

[cmsally]

1 hour ago, OzFlyer said:

Can you explain what you mean by this? Is it a gambling syndicate of sorts? How would she be able to do from home as she rarely goes out? She isn't playing blackjack at the local den unless she is sneaking out at night and switching off the CCTV which runs 24/7.

I think they are referring to "Underground lottery" "Huay Tai Din".

Playing/selling numbers in the lottery and selling "tickets" locally. Many of these get into trouble when there are a lot of winners. Probably impossible to know numbers involved in these but have even heard of people in Chiang Mai being involved in the Lao underground lottery (miles away). Mostly the big "controllers " don't sell the tickets, they would recruit agents to do so.

[wolf81]

On 7/5/2019 at 4:19 PM, OzFlyer said:

 

She is hell bent on staying in Issan. Despises the cities. I can't explain it to her is much simpler terms that the education system in Issan is a joke and akin to child abuse. We need to move to the city. She won't have any of it. The house she purchased was done quite rapidly and before I had a chance to interject it was already sold. She obviously got finance through the business + other means. I noticed her social circles of business owners and rich parents with assets lend money to one another and pay each other via an app. There must be a trust system between them. None of my business really. The house purchase was a joke and means we have to stay put in Issan. I was interested in buying a condo in BKK/Chiang Mai but with her ultimatum, even if I buy there she can definitely claim 50% (maybe more) through a divorce so I won't be spending a single cent in this country. Even if she does agree to move for the sake of our childrens' education, how can I ignore such an ultimatum and I am sure there will be another one down the track anyway when things flare up.

 

How would you play it? Easy to say divorce but there are 2 kids involved. I think if I do a runner to Australia the next time I will see them is when they are adults and by then they would have been brainwashed into thinking I am a delinquent father.

First of all, I don't have really experience with your situation. I do have a Thai girlfriend though, but I never intend to marry (she sometimes hints she wants to get married, but horror stories like yours will keep me from making that mistake). We have a daughter together. We live in the Chiang Mai province (a village 3-hours drive from Chiang Mai). I bought my girlfriend a house and nice car, total maybe 3 million Baht.

 

I have been thinking what I'd do if our relationship wouldn't work out. Because like every relationship we also sometimes have bad days. 

 

What I'd do in your situation would probably be the following: I'd move to some city (likely Pattaya, as I like it, especially the Jomtien area). I'd buy or rent a condo there (in your case, get a divorce first if you want to buy ofc). I'd ask my girlfriend to take our daughter with me so I can take care for her. Now I know my girlfriend loves our daughter very much, so that might be a difficult discussion for her. But I'd feel she will probably get better education at some school there. I would hire some lady to help take care of my daughter and clean the house and such, since I also need to work. I would promise my GF to send her some money every month in return, perhaps 15.000 - 20.000 Baht or something like that, while I take care of our daughter. In my opinion "money talks" and it might prevent a lot of lawyer issues and fights. 

 

Yes, it'd be expensive, but the money means my GF can still have a decent living, even if not working and it also means I can be sure my GF gets decent education. You'd need a decent income for this approach. I guess at least 100.000 Baht a month, more depending on the school you want to send your kid(s) to. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by wolf81

[bkkgriz]

8 hours ago, OzFlyer said:

I helped fund her business because I believe the profits will be shared between both of us. Who gets married without give and take? She has looked after the 1st child in Australia whilst I was working. Also I was prepared to lose the 1MB startup capital but I'm not prepared to spend a dime more. I certainly won't be spending a dime in Thailand so the 1MB potential loss is OK. We don't have any joint assets.

 

There was a loose understanding which I told her to start paying me back the 1MB once her business makes money. Her business is making money as I have personally seen her transactions. I would estimate in the past 9 months she's made 3MB revenue easy. The problem is that what are her expenses that I don't know about? Thais can easily hide this from foreigners who don't speak the language. As soon as the money was rolling in then she has then undertaken a 3MB home loan without my consent. I think when these women are back in Thailand they run amok and the farang doesn't have a clue what's going on.

Don't expect to see a satang of that money back. One does not loan money to a Thai. It is a gift. 

 

In the end, she will answer all of your questions for you. If you give her more money, she will allow you to stay. If you cut off the tap, you are gone. The ball is in your court. Good luck.

[Mansell]

You can sit all day reading all of our suggestions, but ultimately we don't know either of you. The only people who understand a relationship/marriage are the two people in it. In the pit of your gut you know what you have to do, whether you should stay or leave. Sometimes looking at it in the cold light of day is pretty scary, but look you must. We all have advice for you but it doesn't really mean very much, only you know what you have to do. This is four people's lives, not advice on buying a cell phone! (I need to buy one and haven't a clue) Good luck with whatever you do.

[mike787]

2 hours ago, kevvy said:

Wow , rent them??? what a real piece of work you are .There are thousands of us "Farangs "who have loving and considerate wives . Ones that will help you when you are down , ones that will share your happiest, your dreams . I cannot believe comments like yours are made to hurt Thai ladies.

     Well, how do you explain the OP?  You call that love?  Perhaps you do, that's ok - for you. Love has as many variations as there are faces, and some people want that path in life for unknown reasons.  If we all had the rose colored glasses you wear, we would see your perspective.  

     The OP's relationship started much like what you describe, as "loving and considerate".  And now look where he is.  So I guess one take away is, there are NO guarantees in life except death. 

     Remember: You only get to be a vicim once.  After that you're a volunteer.  Try not to be a volunteer unless you like it.

[OzFlyer]

7 hours ago, vinniekintana said:

OP...how do you know she actually bought that 3 MB home?

Visit the Land Office and check their records

Say you want to buy the property and want to check on its status...bring a thai friend to help you with the language

We live in an ocean of lies here

 

It would be funny if her father bought the house outright and she has borrowed 3MB to fund her spending or keep the business afloat.... wwho knows if it's actually 3MB, I don't have the official paperwork and it's easy to fudge docs here.

 

I might get a forensic accountant to start digging into the business on the side. Do they exist in Thailand?

[OzFlyer]

7 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

^{The more I read, the more I get the feeling the relationship seems to have very little if any stability in it other than the sharing of the children.}

^{It seems to me that you have made your mind up about financial support for your wife, your assets in Melbourne appear to have been safeguarded a while ago, so it reads like it is all over besides looking for the future support of the children.}

^{I have not seen you mention your wife in any positive terms, or the relationship being anything other than about finances.} 

^{Good luck ,}

 

Before we got serious my assets were entered into a trust with my parents. My current wife has absolutely no idea. I saw my uncle lose absolutely everything to his ex. She was Aussie btw, not Thai !

 

My attitude is that whatever I owned prior to marriage is absolutely mine and I am fiercly determined to keep it that way. When I pass it's going to the kids, not my spouse.

 

My wife is very enterpreneurial, educated. However she is also from Issan, hate the big city and is Buddhist to a fault. I don't get why they all hate Bangkok? I told her the best business in Thailand is being a monk as the wads of cash the Thais throw their way is absoultely hideous.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by OzFlyer

[473geo]

2 minutes ago, OzFlyer said:

Before we got serious my assets were entered into a trust with my parents. My current wife has absolutely no idea. I saw my uncle lose absolutely everything to his ex. She was Aussie btw, not Thai !

 

My attitude is that whatever I owned prior to marriage is absolutely mine and I am fiercly determined to keep it that way. When I pass it's going to the kids, not my spouse.

 

My wife is very enterpreneurial, educated. However she is also from Issan, hate the big city and is Buddhist to a fault. I don't get why they all hate Bangkok? I told her the best business in Thailand is being a monk as the amount the Thais throw their way is absoultely ridiculous.

 

 

Off you go, you are too entrenched in your ideas to carry the flexible, less vociferous and critical approach required in Thailand

Too many voice their opinions openly regarding Thailand, without really understanding how it came to where it is today

 

For example I have a little respect for your in laws opinions that education is not the be all and end all!

I would rather my son had land, and a home to return to, where, he could survive without having to work for somebody else, than push him through an expensive school into corporate slavery

 

Thailand is not all bad and constant criticism, warranted or not, will always be disconcerting for a Thai wife, pushing them more towards the 'get all you can' attitude for fear the obviously disgruntled farang dumps them!

 

In my opinion large volume of marital problems are caused by the inflexible approach of the farang and their constant stream of disparaging remarks about the Thai, Thai women in particular, and Thailand!! But to the farang this is normal, they cannot appreciate the damage and uncertainty they cause with their 'honest appraisals' until it is way too late.

 

[kevvy]

7 hours ago, mike787 said:

     Well, how do you explain the OP?  You call that love?  Perhaps you do, that's ok - for you. Love has as many variations as there are faces, and some people want that path in life for unknown reasons.  If we all had the rose colored glasses you wear, we would see your perspective.  

     The OP's relationship started much like what you describe, as "loving and considerate".  And now look where he is.  So I guess one take away is, there are NO guarantees in life except death. 

     Remember: You only get to be a vicim once.  After that you're a volunteer.  Try not to be a volunteer unless you like it.

My eyes are wide opened. My wife and I built a 38 home village down near Rayong 4 years ago . She has never taken any money from the company which she owns , sometimes if you open your mind and eyes you can find many beautiful, trustworthy Thai ladies .I came hear 10 years ago to be with my wife.How the years go so quick , but the love is better now than w first met . I have friends who feel the same . You should open your eyes . He does not have a loving relationship , he says he lived in Melbourne , how could he afford the rents in Melbourne , or the home if he brought one .Oh , that's right he properly lived with his parents.

In 2020 someone else will post the same boring post which we have all heard for years . He is A drama queen. Maybe next years one will get over 10 pages ..

[OzFlyer]

5 hours ago, kevvy said:

My eyes are wide opened. My wife and I built a 38 home village down near Rayong 4 years ago . She has never taken any money from the company which she owns , sometimes if you open your mind and eyes you can find many beautiful, trustworthy Thai ladies .I came hear 10 years ago to be with my wife.How the years go so quick , but the love is better now than w first met . I have friends who feel the same . You should open your eyes . He does not have a loving relationship , he says he lived in Melbourne , how could he afford the rents in Melbourne , or the home if he brought one .Oh , that's right he properly lived with his parents.

In 2020 someone else will post the same boring post which we have all heard for years . He is A drama queen. Maybe next years one will get over 10 pages ..

You are obviously clueless about real estate prices in Melbourne going back a decade. Very affordable. I know I would rather be spending $500K on a place in Melb rather than 3 crummy overpriced houses in Issan. Absolutely worthless.

 

[OzFlyer]

8 hours ago, 473geo said:

Off you go, you are too entrenched in your ideas to carry the flexible, less vociferous and critical approach required in Thailand

Too many voice their opinions openly regarding Thailand, without really understanding how it came to where it is today

 

For example I have a little respect for your in laws opinions that education is not the be all and end all!

I would rather my son had land, and a home to return to, where, he could survive without having to work for somebody else, than push him through an expensive school into corporate slavery

 

Thailand is not all bad and constant criticism, warranted or not, will always be disconcerting for a Thai wife, pushing them more towards the 'get all you can' attitude for fear the obviously disgruntled farang dumps them!

 

In my opinion large volume of marital problems are caused by the inflexible approach of the farang and their constant stream of disparaging remarks about the Thai, Thai women in particular, and Thailand!! But to the farang this is normal, they cannot appreciate the damage and uncertainty they cause with their 'honest appraisals' until it is way too late.

 

An inflexible approach would be acting as an ATM spitting out 1000 Baht notes. When the ATM machine is out of operation, the true colours come out. Without money what is a relationship between a Thai and Farang in Thailand? I am starting to figure this out for myself. I don't have anything bad to say about the cities in Thailand but I don't want to live out my days in Issan. I've been to most areas in Issan and they all look and feel the same. Issan is tough for a farang to live in.

[faraday]

The truth is being revealed....

[davidst01]

On 7/5/2019 at 2:51 PM, OzFlyer said:

I have money stashed in Oz but I also realise I need to start putting money aside for my future. I don't want to spend spend spend in Thailand and eventually have nothing to show for it. I am well aware I have zero legal rights here. Money put into a 3MB loan is money I will never see again. I know the traps of living in Thailand and helping her set up her business from my POV was just a cost of entry. She does look after the kids and her parents also help out. The problem I have is that legally I don't have a leg to stand on. If we divorce in Thailand, I highly doubt I will be able to get my money back on the cash invested in her business, or any other assets. 

 

I told her there is absolutely no future here in Issan for the kids as I want a proper education for them, willing to spend money for them in a proper school or we go back to Australia. She wants to live next door to her parents. Don't Thai's value education ? All her friends are bums with wealthy parents who fund everything. I know all her friends and not one of them is self made.

I sympathize with your situation although it has not happened to me. My thai wife is kind hearted and would never do what your's is doing. She does not sound like a nice person if threatening to divorce if you dont pay. Its obviously about money not love with her. 

 

If you proceed with a divorce you could be cut off from the kids. Therefore you need to understand that if you want to keep the kids in your life then you should be helping her with the issan house. 

 

Its a shit situation you're in. You could live in thailand and do your online business. Just dont tell anyone

[davidst01]

On 7/5/2019 at 5:25 PM, GarryP said:

Assets and debts acquired during marriage are considered joint property in Thailand.  As a result, many Thais, particularly business people, do not register their marriages to avoid this very issue.  

but many do for the precise reason you describe. at least as a farang one can get back 50% if things go pear shape. the law helps farang / thai men in this case

[davidst01]

20 hours ago, OzFlyer said:

Thanks for all the advice thus far.

 

Whilst divorce is a last resort, what I need to figure out is how to play a mind trick on her to convince her to leave Issan and head for the big cities for the betterment of the kids. 

 

Has anyone had experiencing in changing their mindset? Her parents are not at retirement age and still collecting alot of money with their businesses and don't intend on stopping in the next 20 years. Her younger brother is independent also. He lives and works in Japan. This isn't a typical Issan household in the traditional sense. I think the daughter is just lazy and wants to live near the parents. How do I teach her some good ol' western values that everyone needs to leave the nest ? Can I do some good ol' brainwashing of Thai women and turn the tables?

keep in mind the parents probably also have big loans. they all do. 

 

It would be the parents hounding the daughter... 'why isn't your husband helping to pay back the loan'...

[OzFlyer]

8 minutes ago, davidst01 said:

keep in mind the parents probably also have big loans. they all do. 

 

It would be the parents hounding the daughter... 'why isn't your husband helping to pay back the loan'...

They would have been talking sh*t the day I set foot in Issan anyway. I am sure I'm not the first farang nor the last to be b1tched about. I'd hate to think how much money is changing hands from a farang to a Thai lady in Issan. 

[Skallywag]

On 7/5/2019 at 1:58 AM, OzFlyer said:

I run an online biz from Oz which keeps the income rolling in. We have 2 kids also, both living with us. I don't earn an income in Thailand and don't intend on doing so anyway. Kids are 1 and 2yo.

 

I helped my wife start a biz here in Thailand with about 1MB start up.

How does your wife have a business in Thailand, you run a business from OZ, and you live together?

Best be sure those "2 kids" are yours.  DNA testing for around 10,000 baht

[OzFlyer]

21 minutes ago, davidst01 said:

but many do for the precise reason you describe. at least as a farang one can get back 50% if things go pear shape. the law helps farang / thai men in this case

I am more worried about the debts than the assets at this point. No clue how much debt she is racking up. She has a few business "debit" cards apparently but I don't have a means to figure out if they are "credit" cards. I might need to get a private investigator to identify which private lenders she is liaising with. Surely the big banks here wouldn't lend a satang to a burgeoning business for fear of it going belly up rather quickly?