Rainy season roofing issues, technical assistance please?

[Joe Mcseismic]

Just now, CGW said:

I was thinking that, may be a cheap solution and no need to chance life and limb on the roof.

If you have a low volume roof, you get the benefit of a cooler house, too.

The foam is not only water-proof, but is also a fire retardant.

[sometimewoodworker]

15 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

If you have a low volume roof, you get the benefit of a cooler house, too.

The foam is not only water-proof, but is also a fire retardant.

Though it isn't cheap and a certain member who's user name begins with an L is going to tell you that it's a death trap.

Edited July 9, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[Joe Mcseismic]

26 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Though it isn't cheap and a certain member who's user name begins with an L is going to tell you that it's a death trap.

Don't know how it can be a death-trap, unless you use unqualified workers using an incorrect foam type that is flammable.

I used a reputable contractor that imports the foam from Singapore.

[sometimewoodworker]

20 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Don't know how it can be a death-trap, unless you use unqualified workers using an incorrect foam type that is flammable.

I used a reputable contractor that imports the foam from Singapore.

It isn't, but he is likely to claim that it is. FWIW my chemicals were from Germany 

[rockyysdt]

1 hour ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Have insulation foam sprayed on to the inside of the roof.

I had mine done earlier this year. Stops all leaks as it is applied to two inches thick. 640 Bt per sq. mtr.

Sounds easy to apply as it can be done inside the attic.

 

It could be sprayed under the valleys and maybe a metre either side of the valleys.

 

Is there a specific product sold in Thailand (which is fireproof) and is there a DIY sprayer (applicator)?

 

Thanks

 

R

Edited July 9, 2019 by rockyysdt

[Joe Mcseismic]

9 minutes ago, rockyysdt said:

Sounds easy to apply as it can be done inside the attic.

 

It could be sprayed under the valleys and maybe a metre either side of the valleys.

 

Is there a specific product sold in Thailand (which is fireproof) and is there a DIY sprayer (applicator)?

 

Thanks

 

R

No, no DIY sprayer.

The foam comes in two parts and is mixed at the nozzle. The nozzle comes from the USA and costs around US$5000. Cheaper just to get a contractor. He also gives a 10 year warranty for leaks.

[rockyysdt]

39 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

No, no DIY sprayer.

The foam comes in two parts and is mixed at the nozzle. The nozzle comes from the USA and costs around US$5000. Cheaper just to get a contractor. He also gives a 10 year warranty for leaks.

Thanks Joe.

 

Any leads for a quote?

 

Also what should I look for or ask to ensure the product used is safe and durable?

[Joe Mcseismic]

11 minutes ago, rockyysdt said:

Thanks Joe.

 

Any leads for a quote?

 

Also what should I look for or ask to ensure the product used is safe and durable?

You could use the same contractor as me. He's based in Hua Hin, I live in Phuket. Let me know and I'll PM you if interested.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

No, no DIY sprayer.

The foam comes in two parts and is mixed at the nozzle. The nozzle comes from the USA and costs around US$5000. Cheaper just to get a contractor. He also gives a 10 year warranty for leaks.

I think you have over estimated the cost of the gun a  GRACO Fusion AP 246102 Spray Gun is about ½ that price, though the pump is likely to be really expensive as well

[Joe Mcseismic]

15 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I think you have over estimated the cost of the gun a  GRACO Fusion AP 246102 Spray Gun is about ½ that price, though the pump is likely to be really expensive as well

Wouldn't know. Just repeating what I was told.

[rockyysdt]

2 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

You could use the same contractor as me. He's based in Hua Hin, I live in Phuket. Let me know and I'll PM you if interested.

Thanks Joe.

 

I'm hoping to find someone in Udon.

 

Do you know the name of the product?

[Joe Mcseismic]

10 hours ago, rockyysdt said:

Thanks Joe.

 

I'm hoping to find someone in Udon.

 

Do you know the name of the product?

The foam used is called PU-Foam which is Polyurathane foam.

[rockyysdt]

4 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

The foam used is called PU-Foam which is Polyurathane foam.

 

Hi Joe.

 

Wiki indicates that untreated PU is highly flammable and a fire hazard.

 

It can be treated with a sandwich coat of a fire retarding material but this would add to its complexity and cost effectiveness in terms of stopping roof leaks.

 

Looks like I'm back to square 1.

[shaemus]

7 minutes ago, rockyysdt said:

 

Hi Joe.

 

Wiki indicates that untreated PU is highly flammable and a fire hazard.

 

It can be treated with a sandwich coat of a fire retarding material but this would add to its complexity and cost effectiveness in terms of stopping roof leaks.

 

Looks like I'm back to square 1.

There are lots of different types of foam.

 

There is also a "green" foam available which emits much lower VOC's. 

 

As for being available in Thailand. Who knows. 

 

I looked into getting a container sprayed a few years ago and the price that was quoted was far too much. 

 

I wouldn't rely on wiki being super reliable for facts. 

 

It probably easier just too fix the roof properly. For me the major benefits are the insulation properties is has. But as with alot of things here in Thailand, it's a bit out of the ordinary so the prices are high. 

 

Shaemus 

[Joe Mcseismic]

1 hour ago, rockyysdt said:

 

Hi Joe.

 

Wiki indicates that untreated PU is highly flammable and a fire hazard.

 

It can be treated with a sandwich coat of a fire retarding material but this would add to its complexity and cost effectiveness in terms of stopping roof leaks.

 

Looks like I'm back to square 1.

Put LOHR Thailand into Google search. The website has phone numbers email address and links to their Facebook page. You can then ask all the questions you want. They are based in Pattaya and claim to travel all over Thailand.

This is NOT the company I used.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, rockyysdt said:

Wiki indicates that untreated PU is highly flammable and a fire hazard.

 

It can be treated with a sandwich coat of a fire retarding material but this would add to its complexity and cost effectiveness in terms of stopping roof leaks.

This is where Wikipedia is a poor or bad resource.

 

The PU foam I had installed and many others have has a fire retardant incorporated into it so that it is not inflammable, in fact I can't get sample pieces to catch fire however hard I try.

 

This is not a coating, it is part of the foam.

 

PU foam without a retardant is inflammable, with one it can burn in a hot enough fire as can every material including steel. But it is self extinguishing. 

[bankruatsteve]

39 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

This is where Wikipedia is a poor or bad resource.

 

The PU foam I had installed and many others have has a fire retardant incorporated into it so that it is not inflammable, in fact I can't get sample pieces to catch fire however hard I try.

 

This is not a coating, it is part of the foam.

 

PU foam without a retardant is inflammable, with one it can burn in a hot enough fire as can every material including steel. But it is self extinguishing. 

Thinks you got stuck on "inflammable".  ????  In the US, even treated PU foam in the attic requires a thermal and/or ignition barrier.  Maybe OTT as a regulation but there you go.  So, don't be too hard on Wiki.

[sometimewoodworker]

33 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Thinks you got stuck on "inflammable".  ????  In the US, even treated PU foam in the attic requires a thermal and/or ignition barrier.  Maybe OTT as a regulation but there you go.  So, don't be too hard on Wiki.

No not really, I understood that he was using flammable meaning to be able to catch catch fire, possibly a American change, rather than inflammable meaning to be able to catch catch fire, as an English (not American) speaker I use the English not American term.

 

However PU foam used with a fire retardant in it is not inflammable (or if you want to use the alternative flammable)

 

and his quote was

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Wiki indicates that untreated PU is highly flammable and a fire hazard.

Thus not correct for  PU foam with a fire retardant, I have some extra from my install and I can't get it to continue burning once the propane torch flame is taken away. 

 

So treated PU foam is neither highly inflammable nor highly flammable nor yet a fire hazard itself, though I do acknowledge that if the house catches fire it does add some nasty gasses, but then you would have much more to worry about anyway.

Edited July 10, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[bankruatsteve]

Ah yes, it's non-flammable for the "not".  I remember that now but the brain cells responsible must have got damaged along the way.  ????  A relative in the states swears by it to really tighten up a house but does get hassled at times for using it.

[sometimewoodworker]

4 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Ah yes, it's non-flammable for the "not".  I remember that now but the brain cells responsible must have got damaged along the way.  ????  A relative in the states swears by it to really tighten up a house but does get hassled at times for using it.

Or for the English non-inflammable ???????? ???? 

[IraqRon]

On 7/8/2019 at 9:38 AM, Crocbait said:

I had the same problems with my valleys overflowing inside the roof, I solved the problem by filling in the valleys with a special flexible cement...around 2,000 thb a bag...problem solved.

i've seen several newish homes in the area, chiang rai, that have had this done due leakage too.  always thought the valleys were not deep enough as well due to how roofs are laid here.  my roof has two valleys but too steep for me and no village persons will do.

[Sheryl]

This sounds very much like the problems I had when my house was first built, I too had 2 gables on each side (plus one in back) all coming together centrally...a serious  design flaw in retrospect.

 

It leaked horribly and I went through at least 6 "repair" people, each of them coming in, randomly removing and replacing roof tiles and achieving nothing, except for one outstanding moron who removed half the roof just before a major downpour and then fled the scene without telling me the roofing was off or applying so much as a tarp. (He had the good sense not to return for several days, until my homicidal rage had somewhat subsided).

 

Finally found one who actually understood and addressed the problem - which was the narrowness of the gutters. I had to get custom made wide gutters -- really, really wide ones --  and this along with some metal sheeting applied under them did the trick. Lots of silicone too but the silicone alone didn't do it.

 

Until you have gutters with adequate capacity that they don't overflow, the problem will continue. Also if possible the gutters should slant downward, in my case the big section where all the roofs come together is completely flat so couldn't get much slant but made up for ti with sheer size. It's been 15 years now and knock on wood no more problems.

 

But in my case the roof beams were not wood so I didn't have any structural damage to contend with. This case sounds like maybe there is some, in which case more extensive roof work might be necessary (e.g. replacing rotten beams) but she'll still need custom wide gutters. No amount of silicone will keep water out if the gutters massively overflow, especially if onto a fairly flat segment of roof.

[eyecatcher]

On 7/10/2019 at 4:41 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

Or for the English non-inflammable ???????? ???? 

I just wonder if those two terms were too ambiguous or caused confusion....well they did.

Neither of those terms are used in the Uk building regulations.

 

If it doesnt burn its regarded as "incombustable"

For material safety, insulations and all other general building material have a class rating for "spread of flame"

Rated 0-5 (in my day) a material for example as a roof or cavity wall insulation must be rated 0 spread of flame, whereas if your external wall was clad with timber it had to be class 1 within 1.5m of a neighbours boundary and class 3 elsewhere(for example)

Plasterboard was 0 

 

Really it makes sense yet again not to introduce Americanisms....ouch

[rockyysdt]

On 7/15/2019 at 9:35 PM, eyecatcher said:

 

Hi Eyecatcher

 

Just revisiting this issue.

 

I liased with the foam guys regarding having the underneath of the roof sprayed with a double thick coating.

 

I explained my reservation that although the coating will stop leakage into the sub roof area, it would not stop water getting to the wooden battens.

The battens would continue to be exposed to water penetration, perhaps made worse by the foam coating causing water to pool between the tiles and the foam.

The foam guy agreed and indicated his system would not be a good option for this installation.

 

Is there anyone who specializes in temporary tarp installations to stop further water damage until the situation can be assessed?

 

Also, thanks EC

Great offer but the 550,000 price tag is a little high for my budget.

 

The tiles on the dormer cheeks sounds good, but would it be easier to clad with colorbond?

 

Any repair would also need to have the little roof sections replaced east and west of the building along the bottom of each dormer.

These provided shelter to the verandah and the walls of the house.

Approx 4.5 metres long and about 1.5metres out.

 

which 

[eyecatcher]

3 hours ago, rockyysdt said:

Hi Eyecatcher

 

Just revisiting this issue.

 

I liased with the foam guys regarding having the underneath of the roof sprayed with a double thick coating.

 

I explained my reservation that although the coating will stop leakage into the sub roof area, it would not stop water getting to the wooden battens.

The battens would continue to be exposed to water penetration, perhaps made worse by the foam coating causing water to pool between the tiles and the foam.

The foam guy agreed and indicated his system would not be a good option for this installation.

 

Is there anyone who specializes in temporary tarp installations to stop further water damage until the situation can be assessed?

 

Also, thanks EC

Great offer but the 550,000 price tag is a little high for my budget.

 

The tiles on the dormer cheeks sounds good, but would it be easier to clad with colorbond?

 

Any repair would also need to have the little roof sections replaced east and west of the building along the bottom of each dormer.

These provided shelter to the verandah and the walls of the house.

Approx 4.5 metres long and about 1.5metres out.

 

which 

sorry my offer was a bit high, but actually I was joking......

I don't normally get out of bed for less than 600k

 

Your latest comment is potentially going to make your promprem 10x worse but first you are worried about immediate protection.

I wouldn't panic as long as you address the real problem as soon as the monsoon weather ceases, which is going to be mid October to be safe. I have done temporary sheeting up on the roof here, infact I have used an old vinyl banner from a sign and taped it to the tiles using the black bitumen tape 100mm wide. mine is sheltered but when the winds come the suction pressure will be great and could fly off into the village.

bear it out for another 6 weeks water is not not going to do as much damage as.....

 

termites. You mentioned wooden battens, so do you have wooden rafters aswell?

Termites favourite conditions are dark, damp wood,  yum yum, I would hazard an educated guess they have already sniffed out the next potential meal for the colony and the outsourcers have found it. They are your biggest enemy now not the rain and they will do more widespread damage longterm and covertly.

hence, this is why I say the whole roofing issue needs to be addressed as soon as you feel you are going to have a week of dry weather. If you overlook the water ingree just because nice weather is here; don't forget those termites and still chewing away. 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by eyecatcher
i would if it worked!!

[rockyysdt]

10 hours ago, eyecatcher said:

sorry my offer was a bit high, but actually I was joking......

I don't normally get out of bed for less than 600k

 

Your latest comment is potentially going to make your promprem 10x worse but first you are worried about immediate protection.

I wouldn't panic as long as you address the real problem as soon as the monsoon weather ceases, which is going to be mid October to be safe. I have done temporary sheeting up on the roof here, infact I have used an old vinyl banner from a sign and taped it to the tiles using the black bitumen tape 100mm wide. mine is sheltered but when the winds come the suction pressure will be great and could fly off into the village.

bear it out for another 6 weeks water is not not going to do as much damage as.....

 

termites. You mentioned wooden battens, so do you have wooden rafters aswell?

Termites favourite conditions are dark, damp wood,  yum yum, I would hazard an educated guess they have already sniffed out the next potential meal for the colony and the outsourcers have found it. They are your biggest enemy now not the rain and they will do more widespread damage longterm and covertly.

hence, this is why I say the whole roofing issue needs to be addressed as soon as you feel you are going to have a week of dry weather. If you overlook the water ingree just because nice weather is here; don't forget those termites and still chewing away. 

 

Thanks E C.

 

The structure supporting the roof tiles is of wood, including battens, rafters and bearers.

 

The attic directly underneath the roof tiles features 4 large windows at each dormer.

There is plenty of daily light in the attic.

 

This building is at least 15 to 20 years old with no sign of termite damage when I've surveyed it.

The ground floor is of concrete, only the upper storey is wood.

 

I don't think termites are an issue.

 

The temporary taping using bitumen tape sounds ok, but maybe a waste when the wet season ends.

The building really needs protection during storm/heavy rains, so a full tarp would be better if available.

The reasoning is that it may take awhile to save the money should the roof need an expensive replacement.

 

The roof has quite a steep pitch and the surface tiles are quite slippery to be on.

How does one safely crawl around such a roof without sliding off (2 storeys).

 

thanks

 

Rocky

Edited August 30, 2019 by rockyysdt

[eyecatcher]

8 hours ago, rockyysdt said:

Thanks E C.

 

The structure supporting the roof tiles is of wood, including battens, rafters and bearers.

 

The attic directly underneath the roof tiles features 4 large windows at each dormer.

There is plenty of daily light in the attic.

 

This building is at least 15 to 20 years old with no sign of termite damage when I've surveyed it.

The ground floor is of concrete, only the upper storey is wood.

 

I don't think termites are an issue.

 

The temporary taping using bitumen tape sounds ok, but maybe a waste when the wet season ends.

The building really needs protection during storm/heavy rains, so a full tarp would be better if available.

The reasoning is that it may take awhile to save the money should the roof need an expensive replacement.

 

The roof has quite a steep pitch and the surface tiles are quite slippery to be on.

How does one safely crawl around such a roof without sliding off (2 storeys).

 

thanks

 

Rocky

You get someone else todo it!

 

1. You use a roof ladder with a hooked end to hang over the ridge.

2. You can use an aluminium folding ladder and use one section as the hook.

3. You can remove a few tiles to expose the tiling battens which forms its own ladder.

4. My favourite, the almighty sky hooks been around since year dot....sorry dont know where to source.

5. Delegate!