Thai bureaucratic madness

[Isaan Alan]

Warning this is an unashamed freshly-wounded rant:

I have recently moved to Isaan from Koh Samui. I have a bank account with Samui Bangkok Bank (since 2015)  and wanted a local bank account to save fees. I went to the local BKK bank with old and new Australian passports showing retirement visa and extensions etc, certificate of residence, Thai drivers license, Australian drivers license and my Samui BKK bank book.  Sorry we can't open a bank account for you unless you have a letter from the Oz embassy proving your identity. Huh? Are you serious? When will this bureaucratic madness end?

So I went across the road to the Krungthai bank and they said they could do it with my original marriage certificate not the copy I had in my phone.

So is all this crap from the Thai Government, the banks or the business elite or what? Yes money laundering is a problem but how much proof of id is needed.? Couldn't my letter from the Oz embassy be a fake. Didn't ask if I needed to get it officially translated or notarised by the Thai bureaucracy but I suspect so.

Hey I am an existing customer.

Do they really want us farangs here? It's looking doubtful to me.

[bkk6060]

So, you take the ever changing rules of banks here due to criminal behavior and western pressure personally?

Not an unusual request nowadays.

So, either buck up and get the cert., or no account. Seems all pretty simple.

[Just Weird]

23 minutes ago, Isaan Alan said:

Couldn't my letter from the Oz embassy be a fake.

Not very likely unless you have access to the seal that embassies impress on their documents.

[Isaan Alan]

1 minute ago, Just Weird said:

Not very likely unless you have access to the seal that embassies impress on their documents.

They can fake a passport quite easily. I'm sure they can do it

[Just Weird]

This is not "Thai bureaucratic madness", it's just a requirement of the SCB branch that you went to; get the doc that they require and you'll have the account that you require.

[Isaan Alan]

19 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

So, you take the ever changing rules of banks here due to criminal behavior and western pressure personally?

Not an unusual request nowadays.

So, either buck up and get the cert., or no account. Seems all pretty simple.

Krungthai don'[t need it. So I'll go that way with my fancy-schmanzy original Thai marriage cert.

[Just Weird]

2 minutes ago, Isaan Alan said:

They can fake a passport quite easily. I'm sure they can do it

Who's the "they" that you're referring to?   I'm sure it could be faked but there'd be no point, it would be more trouble to fake an embassy seal than to get the real document.

[MeePeeMai]

Don’t feel bad. I went in to 3 banks here in Loei with my wife all the paperwork you mentioned. One told me no can do, one told me I must be on my wife’s parents tabian ban (we don’t live with her parents) and the third said I need to come in with a government worker.  Came back with my wife’s parents who both work at the local Amphoe and was told - not enough, need higher government worker. We got on a flight to BKK and went to BKK bank on Silom Rd where they were happy to help me open one no problem. 

[scorecard]

56 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

So, you take the ever changing rules of banks here due to criminal behavior and western pressure personally?

Not an unusual request nowadays.

So, either buck up and get the cert., or no account. Seems all pretty simple.

Further, my contact in one high profile mainstream Thai bank recently mentioned that his bank (and most other Thai banks) are experiencing extremely high levels of bad debts on credit cards and in other areas of banking in fraud and more, way higher than in most other countries and they will probably:

 

- Make a big reduction in the issue of new Credit and debit cards to both foreign and Thai customers.

- Increase their scrutiny before opening new savings accounts for foreigners and Thais.

- Will possibly introduce finger print and eye scan technology to ensure people who present credit or debit cards and bank books are the actual owners of these instruments. And he mentioned change over to fingerprint and eye scan checking is in process right now in Singapore.  The processes in Singapore can do checks to detect where transactions have been processed without finger print or eye scan checking and when detected there are seriously large fines for: the bank, the branch manager and the bank teller etc. 

- The BOT will probably set new rules for new accounts and do random checks to try to detect where bank staff have opened accounts without proper checking, etc.  

[theoldgit]

Whilst I can understand banks tightening up on credit, including credit cards, I’m at a loss to understand why it’s so difficult to open a savings account, where we’re effectively lending money to the banks.
A debit card linked to a savings account doesn’t allow the holder to draw, or spend more that is in the account, so I fail to understand what the issue is.
Maybe we should be checking the banks out before we trust them with our cash.
This letter from your embassy malarkey is a load if cod’s wallop, as is dragging a senior government official to the bank, who probably doesn’t know you from Adam.
I recently moved home and opened new accounts with Kasikorn and Bangkok Bank with no more than my passport and a smile.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Pib]

IMO many Thai banks really don't like having farang customers.  We are just a thorn in their side and our deposits and fees they earn off of us are just a drop in the bucket compared to their Thai population of customers.  And we can cause more headaches for them due to extra paperwork, language barrier/miscommunications which many banks would just as soon avoid.

 

So, to prevent another thorn in the side the need a letter from your home country embassy is often thrown up as the bank knows the applicant will not try to obtain the letter due to effort and cost involved.  So, the farang leaves upset...but the bank avoided another thorn in the side.

 

 

[poohy]

Early 2000 running a travel company out of BKK had dozens of BKK bank accounts in my name as each tour guide had card for tour funds.

Oh these tour guides were non Thai on 30 day visa exempts and contract 1 year

 

Me work permit whats that just non B visa passport sent and returned from Hull

I can remember the Thai bank manager lovely lady telling me i couldn't have any more bank accounts ( i think i had 25 ish at that time)

Fun days!

oh how things have changed.

[richiejom]

3 hours ago, Isaan Alan said:

Krungthai don'[t need it. So I'll go that way with my fancy-schmanzy original Thai marriage cert.

Yes go with Krungthai they are good. I have a Krung Thai and their online 'Netbank portal' is good

 

I'm getting the same problem as you though wherein I changed provinces and keep seeing  ฿20 inter-region' fees on ATM uses..  does this mean I have to ask Krung Thai in my new province to open a new account? that would seem wasteful.  It seems ridiculous they charge a fee for different provinces and at Krungthai ATM when paying in occurs the same fee..what is the expense for?

Edited July 8, 2019 by richiejom

[Isaan Alan]

39 minutes ago, richiejom said:

Yes go with Krungthai they are good. I have a Krung Thai and their online 'Netbank portal' is good

 

I'm getting the same problem as you though wherein I changed provinces and keep seeing  ฿20 inter-region' fees on ATM uses..  does this mean I have to ask Krung Thai in my new province to open a new account? that would seem wasteful.  It seems ridiculous they charge a fee for different provinces and at Krungthai ATM when paying in occurs the same fee..what is the expense for?

thx for the recommendation

I could be cynical and say the 20 baht is for the staff Xmas party but Thais don't have Xmas parties. The 20 baht fee is a scam really, it's all done my magic technology these days, no longer recorded in the original bank branch. Soon it will probably be 30 baht or more. And why do they charge you to deposit money? It's enough to make you buy a balaclava and get even.

[Lacessit]

Take your passport and 100,000 baht in cash to Kasikorn, TMB or whoever. Plonk the cash down on the counter, and say you want to open an account. Has worked twice for me.

[Isaan Alan]

4 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Who's the "they" that you're referring to?   I'm sure it could be faked but there'd be no point, it would be more trouble to fake an embassy seal than to get the real document.

The forgers. Two years ago I saw a forger advertising on Khao San Road with samples of fake passports, DLs, IDs. Totally out in the open. Does he have to pay protection money I wonder?

[Isaan Alan]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Further, my contact in one high profile mainstream Thai bank recently mentioned that his bank (and most other Thai banks) are experiencing extremely high levels of bad debts on credit cards and in other areas of banking in fraud and more, way higher than in most other countries and they will probably:

 

- Make a big reduction in the issue of new Credit and debit cards to both foreign and Thai customers.

- Increase their scrutiny before opening new savings accounts for foreigners and Thais.

- Will possibly introduce finger print and eye scan technology to ensure people who present credit or debit cards and bank books are the actual owners of these instruments. And he mentioned change over to fingerprint and eye scan checking is in process right now in Singapore.  The processes in Singapore can do checks to detect where transactions have been processed without finger print or eye scan checking and when detected there are seriously large fines for: the bank, the branch manager and the bank teller etc. 

- The BOT will probably set new rules for new accounts and do random checks to try to detect where bank staff have opened accounts without proper checking, etc.  

makes sense from a profit standpoint on credit cards but does it on savings accounts?

 

[WalkingOrders]

Ah Bankok bank...I have to use them as retirement goes IDD but then I draw nearly every penny out and put it in my favorite bank in the world Kbank.

I have issues all the time with Bangkok bank. The issue you mentioned, and also a refusal to get me statements, or not timely...not knowing what I want etc...my wife...always with me and explaining to them in Thai....just hates them...we went to central downtown branch once, and they got on phone, and wrote my local branch a letter....evidently tore them a new.....A##..my local branch honestly is afraid of falangs...literally, and really the local branch seems to just not know what they are doing...so...I avoid them, I just quickly move the funds through....its something lacking in the training there....on the other hand kbank loves me, I open insurance accounts through them, have deposited from crypto exchanges...they talk to me using google, and seem to have fun with it...all kinds of stuff. Great!

Edited July 8, 2019 by WalkingOrders
Change mispell

[richiejom]

43 minutes ago, Isaan Alan said:

thx for the recommendation

I could be cynical and say the 20 baht is for the staff Xmas party but Thais don't have Xmas parties. The 20 baht fee is a scam really, it's all done my magic technology these days, no longer recorded in the original bank branch. Soon it will probably be 30 baht or more. And why do they charge you to deposit money? It's enough to make you buy a balaclava and get even.

If I go and ask to open a new account in this province I bet they have you for the new bankbook and debit card cost then

 

This is why I only use my Thai bank to withdraw small amounts of cash for the few things I need it for...  Electricity, Internet and most shopping gets paid by App with my Transferwise fee free Mastercard (works at 7/11, Tesco etc etc) I signed up here and had relatives post it to me in Thailand

 

I'm looking into a way to get cash to my Thai bank within 2 hours with no fees as well using a Thai Fintech app.. I'll report back

 

Would they have kept your Samui Bangkok bank account or would it have been a completely new one? as its an inconvenience to open a completely new one..you must be annoyed... I want to get local status for my existing Krung Thai not have to get all new login details.. its a pain to avoid fees 

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by richiejom

[plachon]

7 hours ago, Pib said:

IMO many Thai banks really don't like having farang customers.  We are just a thorn in their side and our deposits and fees they earn off of us are just a drop in the bucket compared to their Thai population of customers.  And we can cause more headaches for them due to extra paperwork, language barrier/miscommunications which many banks would just as soon avoid.

 

So, to prevent another thorn in the side the need a letter from your home country embassy is often thrown up as the bank knows the applicant will not try to obtain the letter due to effort and cost involved.  So, the farang leaves upset...but the bank avoided another thorn in the side.

 

 

Indeed, which is why many treat farangs with contempt, even while flashing the famous smile. My personal gripe, and this is over 27 years of experience, is when you do a transaction in a Thai bank (and most of them seem to be guilty) and the cashier just presents you with a blank form to sign, as if it is the most normal thing in the world. Now, I don't know about you, but I rather dislike signing away my rights and cash without seeing what I am signing for exactly. But this lady across the counter seems to think that it is the most normal thing in the world and the customer complaining about it is an affront to her professionalism and dignity. As if she'd make a mistake or screw up in some way!! ????

So this creates that sour taste between farang customer and cashier, because Thais never complain when they asked to do something unreasonable like demand an ounce of transparency, accountability and competence in the bank, and in the past, I have to admit I did it the Thai way and just signed....but not any more, and it causes unnecessary aggro. So what do you do when asked to sign  a blank form in the bank, or is it just me being treated like this? ????

[FredLee]

This must be an issue with the BBK branch you are dealing with. I have a BBK account in a Bangkok branch and wanted to open one here in Chiang Mai. I went last Monday to the Chiang Mai branch with my passport, yellow book and the bank book from the Bangkok branch. They opened the new account with no questions. I am a US citizen, not Australian but I can't see that as making any difference.

[jesimps]

Because of the new immigration rules on embassy letters, I decided to open an account with Bangkok Bank (BB). The branch in Central Pattaya refused unless I had a letter from immigration. Visited immigration, they told me I had to have an embassy letter before issuing their letter. I then did what I should've done in the first place and went to another branch of BB who were only too pleased to open an account for me without the immigration and embassy letter blx. It's the price we pay for living in the sunny third world.

[soalbundy]

I changed my BKK bank account from CM to Isaan without any problems and no formalities, just showed them the CM bank book and my passport.

[Isaan Alan]

17 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I changed my BKK bank account from CM to Isaan without any problems and no formalities, just showed them the CM bank book and my passport.

your lucky day, methinks

[Guderian]

20 hours ago, Isaan Alan said:

Krungthai don'[t need it. So I'll go that way with my fancy-schmanzy original Thai marriage cert.

Don't worry about all the snooty-nosed and unsympathetic replies on here, they're not real people, they're just automated Nazibots planted on the forum by the Thai government to give the appearance that its policies are widely supported by the expat community. Anybody who's had problems with opening a bank account here will sympathise with your situation, you're an existing customer <deleted> so what idiocy are these loons playing at?

[Surasak]

I had a KrungThai A/C in one province and moved to another. Asked the bank to do the transfer and they did all that was necessary. Only took 2 days.

[berrec]

16 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

Ah Bankok bank...I have to use them as retirement goes IDD but then I draw nearly every penny out and put it in my favorite bank in the world Kbank.

I have issues all the time with Bangkok bank. The issue you mentioned, and also a refusal to get me statements, or not timely...not knowing what I want etc...my wife...always with me and explaining to them in Thai....just hates them...we went to central downtown branch once, and they got on phone, and wrote my local branch a letter....evidently tore them a new.....A##..my local branch honestly is afraid of falangs...literally, and really the local branch seems to just not know what they are doing...so...I avoid them, I just quickly move the funds through....its something lacking in the training there....on the other hand kbank loves me, I open insurance accounts through them, have deposited from crypto exchanges...they talk to me using google, and seem to have fun with it...all kinds of stuff. Great!

In total agreement, BKK bank from my experience is absolutely hopeless, we have a 3 business company accounts and 3 personal accounts with them, they are the greatest pain in ass to deal with in requests to issue letters and statement of income documents, IMHO their online banking Bizbank is woefully inefficient to use for business payments and transfers ................we are currently trying to unwind from the account business transactional associations with BKK bank and move onto a more user friendly Thai bank.     

[thasoss]

Bank branches can be like immigration branches,they can differ with rule interpretation all the time.Sometimes it's because the bank employee you are dealing with does n't know the rules and rather than lose face gives you an answer that's though to be correct.

What to do?...just try another branch or another bank.

All the documents you had should have been enough.

I moved up to Isaan from Samui a few years ago,opened up a new bank account,also with bangkok bank.Returned to Samui to pack up all my goods,went to my local bangkok bank at Samui town centre with my passport and new bank book from Isaan branch and had no problem transferring a large amount to my new account...the commission charged though was very steep.I also kept my Samui account open.

[4MyEgo]

For what it's worth I avoid the banks here like a plague, as most here say, no one knows what they are doing and it's all about loss of face.

 

So I use Transferwise to transfer money to my account annually, withdraw at ATM's only in my province to avoid unnecessary charges from using an ATM, same bank in another province.

 

I do have to spend 45 minutes a year in front of a desk, 1st cab off the rank to get my letter for immigration while the girl fumbles with the manuel, papers and disappears back and forth to show as if she is doing something and of course I pay 200 baht for the luxury, then it's off for the hour 20 trip to immigration for a 5 minute wait for a piece of paper that says I can stay another year.

 

Welcome to Thailand.

[potless]

23 minutes ago, thasoss said:

.the commission charged though was very steep.I also kept my Samui account open.

Just curious to know how steep the commission charge was and why it was levied?  

Maybe getting a cashiers cheque would have been a better option?                                                            Wise to keep any bank accounts open.  Reply appreciated.

Edited July 9, 2019 by potless