Returning to CM - How has it changed?

[totally thaied up]

36 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Agreed, ten years back it was great here, now if I wasn't already here, I wouldn't be coming.

I do not know what dynamically what has changed. Maybe because the place is busy now and the lack of smiles I get these days. Every one seems stressed. All my wife's friends complain now how the younger farangs just want to <deleted> on first dates and they do not like that. If they don't put out, they just say others will.  I feel the local younger farangs are more dubious in nature now. Cell phones just ruined the bar scene and the days of going to underground clubs that were full of Thais wanting fun are gone. No, the scene has really changed. Sure I am married now but the wife and I are young and still like to dance and go out. 

[dcnx]

It’s basically little China now with terrible traffic and pollution.

[totally thaied up]

7 minutes ago, dcnx said:

It’s basically little China now with terrible traffic and pollution.

I don't mind the Chinese. I love looking at the pretty girls with their summer dresses and big hats and glasses on. Most do no harm. Things just seem more grim after last smokey season. At least we are getting good rain today. 

[cerox]

Me too, more Chinese can come every day. They are so hot ????

Need more of them travelling alone instead of in groups.

[mike787]

On 7/23/2019 at 11:28 AM, alfieconn said:

Complete rubbish, do you have any facts to back this ridiculous statement up ? 

Yep!  You're right...that white stuff that sits in CM for several months that everyone on TVF and the rest of the world sees...its humidity or fog.  Nothing to worry about.  Breath slow, deep, and enjoy????

[Xavnel]

On 7/11/2019 at 10:12 AM, BritManToo said:

Four months of smog is an insurmountable downside IMHO.

Farm / Forest burning is NOT smog...  

That is just wood / organic stuff burning.. 

Smog is created from cars, trucks, and other motorized vehicles.

 

Yes, it us not good air quality,  however, I wish people would stop calling the smoke,  "smog" ...  that is just not a true statement. 

[vagabond48]

10 hours ago, Xavnel said:

Farm / Forest burning is NOT smog...  

That is just wood / organic stuff burning.. 

Smog is created from cars, trucks, and other motorized vehicles.

 

Yes, it us not good air quality,  however, I wish people would stop calling the smoke,  "smog" ...  that is just not a true statement. 

Smoke, smog, a bit of semantics, when it comes to breathing, IMO.

Edited July 25, 2019 by vagabond48

[stillhereandlovinit]

As you can see, the miserable old expats are still here, but now they get chance to whinge about the exchange rates too.

[totally thaied up]

3 hours ago, stillhereandlovinit said:

As you can see, the miserable old expats are still here, but now they get chance to whinge about the exchange rates too.

I am not miserable, I am in fact fairly young and I tell it how it is. You only got to look at the reporting this year to see what a toxic hole it was for three months and only days ago, the AQI before the rain had come still had Chiang Mai within the top ten in the world for bad air quality.  

[LivinLOS]

On 7/11/2019 at 6:45 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Worst rip offs in Thailand. 

Not been to Phuket or Samui lately I guess huh ?? 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 5:18 PM, totally thaied up said:

Hopefully everything will be sorted by then.  Thailand in general has changed over the last ten years. Only the fact the village prices have not increased too much that has me saving money.

Everything sorted- LOL.

That's hope over reality, IMO.

Thailand changed more under Thaksin than ever it did before or after in the past 30 years. He may be gone, but his ghost still poisons the place.

Live in the village- I take it you grow your own veges then. Yum.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Not been to Phuket or Samui lately I guess huh ?? 

No. My last trip to Phuket was after the tsunami, but they were just rebuilding the same <deleted> hole as before, and Phi Phi was going to be worse than before.

Think the last visit to Samui was one night about 15 years ago, but way too expensive and no fun.

Perhaps I should add "in my experience" to every comment I make about Thailand, but I had assumed that everyone understood that.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 6:50 PM, totally thaied up said:

I don't mind the Chinese. I love looking at the pretty girls with their summer dresses and big hats and glasses on. Most do no harm. Things just seem more grim after last smokey season. At least we are getting good rain today. 

Yup, Chinese gurls are the cheese!

[fhickson]

On 7/23/2019 at 8:14 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

I visited on a tour in 1974. It was interesting, Khan Toke dinner, cultural center, temples, but even then the traffic around the moat was appalling, and no pedestrian stop lights. Best thing for me though was the shops selling genuine US army gear beside the moat. They still have shops selling Thai army gear there, but very inferior to the US stuff.

the quality on the us army stuff appeared to be lacking last time i was there. felt like something the vietnamese would wear.

[chingmai331]

If i recall correctly the VC wore only black pajamas, probably cotton. And small sizes only so fat farangs would have a difficult time finding good army stuff now.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 12:28 PM, fhickson said:

the quality on the us army stuff appeared to be lacking last time i was there. felt like something the vietnamese would wear.

You don't say when that was, but the trip I refer to was just after the Vietnam war, and recently I haven't seen any genuine US army gear for sale. If wanted, best imported from a US company like US Cavalry.

[fhickson]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You don't say when that was, but the trip I refer to was just after the Vietnam war, and recently I haven't seen any genuine US army gear for sale. If wanted, best imported from a US company like US Cavalry.

was just a wee bit being born the last time you were there. stuff as of 5 years ago did not appear to be genuine.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, fhickson said:

was just a wee bit being born the last time you were there. stuff as of 5 years ago did not appear to be genuine.

It's not US gear. The only stuff I saw was probably Thai army gear. If it has a US stamp on it it'll be fake.

However, some of the clothing for sale in Chatachuck ( in Bangkok ) second hand market may be genuine. I have seen some good military gear there as well in the area devoted to such stalls. Not US, but good quality gear.

[Bill97]

So happy to know where to get quality military gear to outfit our neighborhood militia. Now we can begin operations again!


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[fhickson]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You don't say when that was, but the trip I refer to was just after the Vietnam war, and recently I haven't seen any genuine US army gear for sale. If wanted, best imported from a US company like US Cavalry.

pelican cases in the usa has military spec stuff but its mostly cases and transport. they will ship anywhere. anything in particular?

 

was looking for some good camo mosquito netting when i was there, but what they had looked cheap and packaged like it was made in china.

[chingmai331]

Aren't bullet proof vests illegal in Thailand?  Classified as a 'war weapon'.  Anyway you can make your own by flattening out a steel garbage can lid and attaching straps.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

There's quite a bit here that's factually incorrect.  5 years ago was 2014.  That wasn't a good year for air quality either in the dry season, to put it mildly.  People seem to forget that as recent as 2 years ago there weren't any independent sites, apps or consumer monitoring stations.  So awareness has improved leaps and bounds, both among Thais and expats. 

 

This year was bad, and extremely dry, but one year doesn't make a trend.  Several years were worse, going quite far back. Most of you will remember 2007.

 

Another persistent myth is 'that it starts earlier every year' where actually the opposite is true.  But without apps, sites and dozens of monitoring stations, people just noticed things were a bit hazy in January or February and that was it, no mass alarm.  (There SHOULD have been mass alarm; don't get me wrong on this.)

 

The longest term perspective that exists is based on PM10 data. At the time there was an air quality standard in effect of 120 ug/m3 PM10, and the Pollution Control Department kept records of the number of days that this value was exceeded. (All as daily averages; any AQI is intended to be used with a 24 hour average).  They also noted the 'worst day' for every month, since 1996. 

 

The numbers are a bit dry but they turn into a graph that shows the situation pretty well. 

 

 

"But what about PM2.5!", I hear you scream.  PM2.5 data is only available since 2012 for one station, and since 2017 for one more station, and then lots and lots and lots of stations in 2018 and 2019: again, the availability of this information is *extremely* recent.   You can make an educated guess though as to what the PM2.5 level would be based on the PM10 value.  On average it turns out that the PM2.5 component of a PM10 value is higher when the overall pollution is higher, up to 80%. (This is exceptionally high actually and may be specific for this kind of extreme pollution caused by burning forests and crops in the region)

 

Taking this PM2.5 ratio of 80% for peak values, that means the worst day in 2007 which had a PM10 of 396, the corresponding PM2.5 value would very likely be around 317, or a US AQI value of 367: dark purple Hazardous.  (Again: daily average!  Peak readings on that day would have been very, very high. I mention this only because the AirVisual app tends to focus on individual readings, and people seem to remember the peaks the best.) Anyway that's well over 10 years ago.

 

 

I took a photo at the time of what that looked like: 

That was 13 March, 2007.  It looked like Mars.   (Doi Suthep is somewhere behind all that.)

 

My prediction for the future.. I think other areas will catch up with Chiang Mai's level of data gathering.  It will then become apparent to more people that the situation in many places in the North and North East are the same as or worse than Chiang Mai; you seriously don't want to be in Pai in March.  Or even Khon Kaen, etc.  After that, harder data will become available on Myanmar, Laos, Vietnam, etc.   Then the extent of the emergency will finally be understood.  Even today there is yearly data on Hanoi in Vietnam: their yearly average air quality is worse than Chiang Mai, so if you're making a move, choose wisely.  Also Chonburi/Pattaya may not be better when taken over the entire year.

But the above prediction is largely about 'understanding and awareness'.  What about the actual pollution levels.. that's much harder to predict. The trend is towards very slight improvement, but not by enough to see real change.  A draconian government crackdown might help, similar to the War on Drugs a decade ago.  For reference, that means rounding up people who start fires and shooting them in the head.  It's definitely urgent enough: bad air kills a lot more people than drugs do, and not just willing participants either.

Edited August 1, 2019 by WinnieTheKhwai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

But what things actually did change: Lots and lots more boutique hotels and hostels opened up, along with cafes and restaurants.  This in response do the large surge in tourism especially from China, following the 2012 movie Lost in Thailand that was shot almost entirely in Chiang Mai.  This is most apparent in Nimmanhaemin, but also around the old city area. In addition to hotels and hostels, and many of the old 'guesthouses' rebranding as either of those, there is also a lot of accommodation available via AirBnB and other holiday rental sites.  So this further increases the capacity for tourists.  Among Chinese and other Asian tourists the trend is towards independent travel, there hasn't been an increase in group tours.  That's a good thing IMHO.

Really big development is moving away from the city center, so that's actually very good news.  New big shopping malls, a new hospital and home improvement stores are all established along the ring roads.    So in my opinion that leaves the old city still very nice, perhaps actually nicer due to the little boutiques and cafes.  Traffic congestion happens especially around school times, near the big schools (which are getting bigger all the time). The inside the moat there basically aren't traffic jams unless events or markets are on.  That said, the old city is increasingly  getting less 'green' and less residential, because when those boutique hotels go up they tend to cover every available square inch. 

 

Oh, and we got some proper bus lines! 

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by WinnieTheKhwai

[fhickson]

20 hours ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

 

Oh, and we got some proper bus lines! 

 

nice one, george. pls explain more, routes, fares?

Edited August 2, 2019 by fhickson

[Somnambulist]

On 7/24/2019 at 10:54 PM, Xavnel said:

Farm / Forest burning is NOT smog...  

That is just wood / organic stuff burning.. 

Smog is created from cars, trucks, and other motorized vehicles.

 

Yes, it us not good air quality,  however, I wish people would stop calling the smoke,  "smog" ...  that is just not a true statement. 

The word smog is a combination of smoke and fog.  Duh

[fhickson]

28 minutes ago, Somnambulist said:

The word smog is a combination of smoke and fog.  Duh

really hate when neighbors burn trash and plastic on their field. even inhaled smoke from a burning plastic bottle? that stuff is poison for sure.

 

not as bad as those guys who weld with a hankerchief. even inhaled smoke from weld?

 

seems like they use that instead of napalm to gas the invaders. anyone see any genuine usa gas masks with spec filters at the army supply store?

Edited August 2, 2019 by fhickson

[OneZero]

fhickson: I would think that with the increase of condos, people & cars, that it's clear traffic has worsened & I would say that must have impacted unhealthy aspect of the air.  In any event I suggest you read a well written posy by donnacha's in the following link:

 

[fellig]

For those soured on Chiang Mai; any suggestions for other cities in Thailand or SE Asia, similar cost of living but better (whatever "better" means to you)?

[OneZero]

For a start try the following link:

 

 

[Superoo]

I was condo hunting in the Nimman area yesterday when I came upon a suitable looking condo.

 

I asked the staff to be shown a room. The room looked fine with a nice view of Dui Sutep.

 

I said thanks for showing me the room. I am looking around and may get back to you.

 

She then demanded that I give her 100 Baht for showing me the room!

 

Of course she received nothing...

 

Never seen that before.