Thai tourism in trouble: And competitor Vietnam is "scary" for Pattaya

[Leaver]

6 hours ago, Ron jeremy said:

I speak with Thai business owners, they themselves say the government is lying about tourist numbers in Thailand..

i have t agree, read the threads, business. Way down everywhere, rooms occupancy way down, bars restaurants empty. But yet the government say tourist numbers are at record levels.

but in the next sentence they say western euro numbers down, business in places down 40 percent. It just doesn't add up.

so many closed businesses, Phuket, worst year in decades etc etc etc.

with the record numbers, places should be full .

its total bs.

Once again, a member looking only at the numbers. 

 

I've said it a hundred times, and will say it again.  The number are most likely up, but the money from the tourists that make up the majority of those numbers is down, way down.  I've never seen so many coach buses and tour groups.

 

You are right, hotel vacancy is down, because condo's are being used like hotels.  Bars and restaurants empty, because they are too expensive for the demographic of tourists making up the numbers here now, being Chinese and Indians.  The Indians can't even afford to eat in a nice Indian restaurant here.  Not to mention, culturally, they do not drink a great deal. 

 

The sales of, shall we say, "special massage" is down, because, once again, they can get that cheaper in their own country.  There's even Chinese hookers working off apps here now, undercutting the regular Thai prices, for people from their own country.

 

The tour operators beat Thai establishments and activities down to their rock bottom price, or they take their tour groups elsewhere.  They have made the margins very thin for the Thai's.

 

Zero baht tourism is not a myth, it's a reality. 

 

Go into any 7/11 or Family Mart and look at what they are buying.  It's not a bottle of water because it's hot.  They are buying cheap eats, like a 30 baht rice and egg, or similar.  That's dinner. 

 

TAT chased the numbers and got them, but that doesn't mean they got the money they thought would come along with them.

 

They must have thought all tourists that come here will spend like the westerners did, but now they are seeing how wrong they are. 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Leaver

[Leaver]

On 12/21/2019 at 8:43 PM, adammike said:

What you have to realise is that Thailand has countries that contain half the world's population a short budget flight away.

When they legalise casinos westerners won't be allowed in them there will be double the Chinese visitors if not more.

It may be an official policy to give the Falang a hard time no more sex-pats, criminals or overstayers,guys living on tourist visas etc.Some just get caught in the system.

So, Thailand can chose the Chinese, and farang can chose Vietnam. 

 

Between zero baht Chinese tourists, Chinese money launderers, and Chinese criminals, good luck to Thailand trying to make a baht out of them. 

 

Vietnam has had casinos for years. 

 

https://thegrandhotram.com/

 

Thailand slipping way behind the times. 

[jacko45k]

14 minutes ago, Leaver said:

So, Thailand can chose the Chinese, and farang can chose Vietnam. 

Optimistic... the Chinese and Indians will be going to Vietnam too! Russians are going already. Plenty of them to go around.

[Leaver]

6 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Optimistic... the Chinese and Indians will be going to Vietnam too! Russians are going already. Plenty of them to go around.

That's true, but it's the lucrative western market that Thailand is bleeding, hence, the OP title. 

 

They are the ones staying in 5 star resorts and spending up. 

[kinyara]

6 hours ago, Leaver said:

That's true, but it's the lucrative western market that Thailand is bleeding, hence, the OP title. 

 

They are the ones staying in 5 star resorts and spending up. 

What's it like for you living in Vietnam ? 

[adammike]

5 hours ago, Leaver said:

So, Thailand can chose the Chinese, and farang can chose Vietnam. 

 

Between zero baht Chinese tourists, Chinese money launderers, and Chinese criminals, good luck to Thailand trying to make a baht out of them. 

 

Vietnam has had casinos for years. 

 

https://thegrandhotram.com/

 

Thailand slipping way behind the times. 

Thailand doesn't have to make money out of them so to speak,just the people in positions of power, you know who they are.

[Leaver]

27 minutes ago, adammike said:

Thailand doesn't have to make money out of them so to speak,just the people in positions of power, you know who they are.

Yes, like North Korea.  What a great future Thailand has under the current administration. 

 

 

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, kinyara said:

What's it like for you living in Vietnam ? 

I'm in Pattaya, but freely admit Vietnam is my Plan B.  Been there many times.  I've said before, I have even picked out the condo block, and I am in constant contact with the manger there. 

 

Now's the time to make sure you have options. 

[kiever]

i left pattaya 1 year ago and moved to koh phangan. i was addicted to girlie bars  but while quality and attitudes of girls is going worse, prices are keeping on increasing. i picked up girl from udon thani and moved to phangan. so far so good !

[moontang]

1 minute ago, kiever said:

i left pattaya 1 year ago and moved to koh phangan. i was addicted to girlie bars  but while quality and attitudes of girls is going worse, prices are keeping on increasing. i picked up girl from udon thani and moved to phangan. so far so good !

what a real success story. I hope you complimented her on her (relatively) white skin.  Did you ever wonder why her able bodied family doesnt work?

[Leaver]

On 1/13/2020 at 3:14 AM, kiever said:

i left pattaya 1 year ago and moved to koh phangan. i was addicted to girlie bars  but while quality and attitudes of girls is going worse, prices are keeping on increasing. i picked up girl from udon thani and moved to phangan. so far so good !

How's tourism on Koh Pha Ngan going?

 

Pattaya is not noted for attracting backpackers, so I don't see many here, but Koh Pha Ngan is, mainly for the full moon parties. 

 

How big are the full moon parties these days? 

[kiever]

not crowded as before . phangan is very quiet. and samui also same. roads in samui are overcrowded but mostly by locals. bars are empty. not many customers at hotels as well but accommodation  prices on samui is still very expensive

[Rimmer]

A troll post removed

[Leaver]

On 1/15/2020 at 3:00 AM, kiever said:

not crowded as before . phangan is very quiet. and samui also same. roads in samui are overcrowded but mostly by locals. bars are empty. not many customers at hotels as well but accommodation  prices on samui is still very expensive

Sounds pretty much like what is happening in the tourist areas, nation wide. 

 

If I had to chose, I would say Samui would be one of the the first dominos to fall in Thailand's tourism industry.

 

[kinyara]

On 1/11/2020 at 7:42 AM, Leaver said:

I'm in Pattaya, but freely admit Vietnam is my Plan B.  Been there many times.  I've said before, I have even picked out the condo block, and I am in constant contact with the manger there. 

 

Now's the time to make sure you have options. 

Indeed wises words, in fact it might be worth having a Plan C if Vietnam goes ahead with its plan to cut Tourist Visas from 3 months to 1 month from July 1st, unless of course they reinstate their annual retirement visa which they also curtailed. I think you previously mentioned you thought it was only temporary. If there is an aim to stop people living long term on 3 month tourist visas I can't imagine them allowing 12 back to back renewals a year. 

 

Will be interesting to see how the Vietnam visa changes play out. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Leaver]

17 hours ago, kinyara said:

Indeed wises words, in fact it might be worth having a Plan C if Vietnam goes ahead with its plan to cut Tourist Visas from 3 months to 1 month from July 1st, unless of course they reinstate their annual retirement visa which they also curtailed. I think you previously mentioned you thought it was only temporary. If there is an aim to stop people living long term on 3 month tourist visas I can't imagine them allowing 12 back to back renewals a year. 

 

Will be interesting to see how the Vietnam visa changes play out. 

 

 

 

 

 

Once again, you are thinking that Vietnam MUST think like the Thai's do.  You need to forget all the Thai BS, because it doesn't exist in Vietnam.

 

Personally, I haven't heard Vietnam is stopping 3 month tourist visas, or Temporary Resident Cards, but I will look into this.  They are certainly still on offer online.

 

On my visits, I have met many English teachers, both young and old, and they have been doing back to back tourist visas for years, yes, years, and yes, working on tourists visas.  Vietnam is completely different to Thailand in this regard. 

 

I do have concerns that Vietnam MAY tighten up their visas in the short term, in order to control, or monitor, the exodus from Thailand that is landing on its shores, but I can't see them stopping back to back tourist visas any times soon. 

[kinyara]

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Personally, I haven't heard Vietnam is stopping 3 month tourist visas, or Temporary Resident Cards, but I will look into this. 

 

I do have concerns that Vietnam MAY tighten up their visas in the short term, in order to control, or monitor, the exodus from Thailand that is landing on its shores, but I can't see them stopping back to back tourist visas any times soon. 

 

It's a government directive not a personal thing. Have a word with that  condo manager you're in regular contact with. Sounds like there will be some good monthly deals coming up in July. God's waiting room is emptying very fast on this latest development,

[kinyara]

 

Worth a watch if you are thinking about visiting Vietnam for longer than 30 days or perhaps considering a longer term move. 

 

[RoadWarrior371]

14 hours ago, kinyara said:

 

Worth a watch if you are thinking about visiting Vietnam for longer than 30 days or perhaps considering a longer term move. 

 

 

So the grass isn't always greener?  ????

[Ron jeremy]

On January 17, 2020 at 5:27 AM, Leaver said:

Once again, you are thinking that Vietnam MUST think like the Thai's do.  You need to forget all the Thai BS, because it doesn't exist in Vietnam.

 

Personally, I haven't heard Vietnam is stopping 3 month tourist visas, or Temporary Resident Cards, but I will look into this.  They are certainly still on offer online.

 

On my visits, I have met many English teachers, both young and old, and they have been doing back to back tourist visas for years, yes, years, and yes, working on tourists visas.  Vietnam is completely different to Thailand in this regard. 

 

I do have concerns that Vietnam MAY tighten up their visas in the short term, in order to control, or monitor, the exodus from Thailand that is landing on its shores, but I can't see them stopping back to back tourist visas any times soon. 

I phoned the viet embassy yesterday, no changes to the visa after July 1

anyone can still come for 30,60,90 days and not have to leave the country. The change had to do with e- visa or something else.

no difference than what it is now.

[Leaver]

19 hours ago, kinyara said:

 

Worth a watch if you are thinking about visiting Vietnam for longer than 30 days or perhaps considering a longer term move. 

 

Thanks for the video.

 

It's the first I have heard of this.

 

I contacted my agent in Vietnam, who is quite professional, and they have no idea of it, but told me if I didn't want a tourist visas, or couldn't get a tourist visa, they can arrange a business visa for me, as they have done in the past.

 

I have spoken with friends in Vietnam who also have no idea about this.

 

I am not questioning the content of the video.  The guy seems quite genuine and informed. 

 

I checked the links in his video, and I note the changes seemed to be for certain nationalities.

 

Without being racist, I would not be surprised if the new visa law is targeting Africans, namely, Nigerians, who have been drug dealing and operating online scams in Vietnam. 

 

This comment leads me to believe it will be more targeted, rather than across the board.

"The representative of the Immigration Department declined to reveal specifics on the identified groups of foreign violators to the local media due to the sensitivity of the issue."  "Foreigners have taken advantage of this visa policy to enter Vietnam to commit technology-related crimes or work illegally."

 

It this visa law was across the board, I can only see a huge increase in sham marriages,with foreigners getting a 5 year multiple entry visa for around $50USD, which would see the Vietnam government lose out.

 

The video did give me pause to think of a Plan C, and it would probably be The Philippines, another country benefiting from the Thailand exodus.   

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, Ron jeremy said:

I phoned the viet embassy yesterday, no changes to the visa after July 1

anyone can still come for 30,60,90 days and not have to leave the country. The change had to do with e- visa or something else.

no difference than what it is now.

If I understand correctly, Vietnam e-visa is only for 1 month anyway. 

 

It's probably to do with Visa On Arrival.  (VOA)  They may make certain nationalities present at a consulate or embassy for application, so they can be given either 1 month, or refused.

 

Currently, with VOA, they are already on Vietnamese soil, albeit, not past immigration, hence, a deportation problem. 

[Leaver]

On 1/17/2020 at 3:50 AM, kinyara said:

Indeed wises words, in fact it might be worth having a Plan C

I'm leaning towards The Philippines for a Plan C. 

 

I know for many, The Philippines is their Plan B. 

[Beanfarmer05]

On 1/16/2020 at 6:26 PM, Leaver said:

Sounds pretty much like what is happening in the tourist areas, nation wide. 

 

If I had to chose, I would say Samui would be one of the the first dominos to fall in Thailand's tourism industry.

 

On 1/16/2020 at 6:26 PM, Leaver said:

Sounds pretty much like what is happening in the tourist areas, nation wide. 

 

If I had to chose, I would say Samui would be one of the the first dominos to fall in Thailand's tourism industry.

 

I'm in samui at the moment heading to pattaya later this week. 

 

It's been 2 years since I was last in samui and it is dead here! What were the busy bars in chaweng..ark bar,green mango,hush bar,on a Thursday Friday night they were half empty. 

 

The restaurants and quiet bars are scrambling around for customers,I've eaten at a different place for lunch and dinner every day and they're all lucky if they're 30 40% full. 

[Leaver]

16 hours ago, Beanfarmer05 said:

What were the busy bars in chaweng..ark bar,green mango,hush bar,on a Thursday Friday night they were half empty. 

If the bars are half empty, that means they are half full.  The bar owner should be happy with that, compared to other places in Thailand.  Still, only 50% of customers, in a high season, is not a good sign.

 

16 hours ago, Beanfarmer05 said:

I've eaten at a different place for lunch and dinner every day and they're all lucky if they're 30 40% full. 

That's probably more the figures I would be expecting for Samui, with Phuket not far behind, and once again, this is high season.  They may as well close for low season.   

[Leaver]

"Scary" indeed. 

 

Up 32.8% on the same time last year.

 

http://vietnamtourism.gov.vn/english/index.php/statistic/international

 

 

http://vietnamtourism.gov.vn/english/index.php/items/14547

 

"Most outstandingly, Viet Nam was listed among nominees in six world’s leading categories, including World’s Leading Cultural Destination, World’s Leading Destination, World’s Leading Tourist Board (for Vietnam National Administration of Tourism), World’s Leading City Destination (Hanoi), World’s Leading Culinary Destination, and World’s Leading Cultural City Destination (Hoi An)."

 

 

 

[madmen]

22 minutes ago, Leaver said:

"Scary" indeed. 

 

Up 32.8% on the same time last year.

 

http://vietnamtourism.gov.vn/english/index.php/statistic/international

 

 

http://vietnamtourism.gov.vn/english/index.php/items/14547

 

"Most outstandingly, Viet Nam was listed among nominees in six world’s leading categories, including World’s Leading Cultural Destination, World’s Leading Destination, World’s Leading Tourist Board (for Vietnam National Administration of Tourism), World’s Leading City Destination (Hanoi), World’s Leading Culinary Destination, and World’s Leading Cultural City Destination (Hoi An)."

 

 

 

Written by the tourist authority of Vietnam 

... Ring a bell? 

55555555555

[Leaver]

21 minutes ago, madmen said:

Written by the tourist authority of Vietnam 

... Ring a bell? 

55555555555

TAT sprouts a lot of BS.  Not sure Vietnam does, cares to, or even needs to.

 

I do take your point though, but a look at the airlines and new routes to Vietnam tells me it's not BS. 

[Roy Baht]

UPDATE on Vietnam visa rules:
Rather than having to make a border run every 30 days, as previously announced, tourists will be given the option of reporting to their local immigration office (for a fee of US$10), or of hiring an agent to do so. That would mean, on a 90 day tourist visa, you would report to the local IO twice, and have to cross the border and return with a new visa (or in the case of Americans, with a one-year visa, cross the border and return, three times a year).
See new Eli the Bike Guy video. New Visa Rules discussion occur roughly 12:30- 21:00

 

[Leaver]

48 minutes ago, Roy Baht said:

Rather than having to make a border run every 30 days, as previously announced, tourists will be given the option of reporting to their local immigration office (for a fee of US$10), or of hiring an agent to do so.

So, not really a big change.  Can remain in Vietnam, on tourists visas, perpetually, for just a few hundred USD a year.