The mystery of exactly how many expats live in Thailand

[SPREX]

5 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

And here's where they shout "masaaaaaggeemaaassaaaaaage". So, what exactly is "Number of tourists" there? How is the raw data being aggregated to come up with that number? What are receipts, what is the data source, what is the algorithm used?

 

In other countries publishing that sort of info is called transparency.

The source of this painting comes from the Thai Authority directly from the Ministry of Tourism and Sports
the data are provisioned by the BICIS data base of the immigration which also manages the IN-OUT of the Tourists' it is considerable)
there is no algorithm only interconnected databases

 

 

[DrTuner]

2 minutes ago, SPREX said:

there is no algorithm only interconnected databases

I beg to differ. The raw data in immigration database would have the entry date, the type of visa, possible re-entry permit number, etc. Somehow this is filtered into a single number per country, "number of tourists". What exactly is 1 tourist in that table? Visa waiver entries, entries on TR-visa, VOA, are re-entry permit entries excluded, is non-immigrant included, is there any filtering that leaves out those that just do a quick in-out at airport, etc,etc,etc.

 

 

[SPREX]

10 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

I beg to differ. The raw data in immigration database would have the entry date, the type of visa, possible re-entry permit number, etc. Somehow this is filtered into a single number per country, "number of tourists". What exactly is 1 tourist in that table? Visa waiver entries, entries on TR-visa, VOA, are re-entry permit entries excluded, is non-immigrant included, is there any filtering that leaves out those that just do a quick in-out at airport, etc,etc,etc.

 

 

Please look that all IN-OUT type visa tourists or others longstay and reasons are considered included National Thai !!!!

 

[DrTuner]

9 minutes ago, SPREX said:

Please look that all IN-OUT type visa tourists or others longstay and reasons are considered included National Thai !!!!

That would make f.ex. myself be 5 tourists, when I'm here on the PE (elite) visa and entered five times this year and am not a tourist in the definition TAT should use (I've lived in Thailand 12 years on back to back temp permits). The question is what do they classify as a tourist. Actually this data should now be enough to hunt down any large discrepancies between TAT's calculated 'Number of tourists" and the aggregate numbers from immigration. Tempted...

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, SPREX said:

BICIS Data base immigration provide the big data for theDivision of Tourism and Sports Economy (As of July 17, 2062P)

 

Let's take Brunei, 2018. 

 

TAT: 6400

Immigration stats..

https://www.immigration.go.th/download/1561019325372.xlsx

 

 

Oh this is going to be fun.

 

EDIT: Ah noticed that's January. I'll calc the months together.

 

EDIT2: So, I took the 2018 immigration report and picked the number for Brunei from it, total, category 1 (TR visa & co) and category 4 (Waiver):

 

 

I suppose the "2018P" in TAT means 2018 until July-ish if they compare year-to-year.

 

Summary: it's conceivable TAT's "Number of tourists" is category 1+4, i.e. Those with TR visas and those that come with a visa waiver, summed together. And every arrival counts as a tourist, no matter how many time the single person has entered during the period. 

 

I don't think there's any way to filter out those using back to back TR's or waivers to stay here. But to TAT's credit, doesn't seem to be complete <deleted>.

[SPREX]

29 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

That would make f.ex. myself be 5 tourists, when I'm here on the PE (elite) visa and entered five times this year and am not a tourist in the definition TAT should use (I've lived in Thailand 12 years on back to back temp permits). The question is what do they classify as a tourist. Actually this data should now be enough to hunt down any large discrepancies between TAT's calculated 'Number of tourists" and the aggregate numbers from immigration. Tempted...

PLease,  Look the data BICIS report Immigration all type visa are managed included ELITE and AMEC  !!!

what I can do for you more

it is an evidence the source  IN-OUT data is correct and provided too all gouvernement agencies and ministry

all visa tuype touristes are considered it is very easy to know how many Tourists coming by Month and annual

Here the report for Foreigners IN-OUT July 2019   it is same avery months  January to July included 2019

[DrTuner]

5 minutes ago, SPREX said:

PLease,  Look the data BICIS report Immigration all type visa are managed included ELITE and AMEC  !!!

Yes, did, see above. Sorry about the copy-paste error in December for category 4, can't edit anymore. Here's the fixed one. Brunei, 2018.

 

 

Ok, so now it seems at least the connection between the raw immigration data and TAT "Number of tourist" is clear-ish. As mentioned it's not unique tourists, just the number of entries. 

 

Next up could somebody explain what those "receipts" are and where's the raw data?

[SPREX]

10 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Yes, did, see above. Sorry about the copy-paste error in December for category 4, can't edit anymore. Here's the fixed one. Brunei, 2018.

 

 

Ok, so now it seems at least the connection between the raw immigration data and TAT "Number of tourist" is clear-ish. As mentioned it's not unique tourists, just the number of entries. 

 

Next up could somebody explain what those "receipts" are and where's the raw data?

The total for Brunei is far too big I check with my data

 

[DrTuner]

6 minutes ago, SPREX said:

The total for Brunei is far too big I check with my data

That's because that's the whole 2018. TAT's figure is 6400 for 2018P, which seems to be half a year:

 

 

Add some of the others like elite and yes the 6400 for first half of 2018 looks correct. But again, that's immigration entries - could be multiple per passport. No way to know the unique visitors without access to the actual raw immigration data.

[SPREX]

10 minutes ago, SPREX said:

The total for Brunei is far too big I check with my data

before temory stay  not to many

 

[DrTuner]

7 minutes ago, SPREX said:

 

This would be the new arrivals applying for first time and those already in country extending. Basically the answer to the OP question, how many expats, as most have to renew their temporary stay permits yearly. Now.. how did you conjure this one up, from the immigration page downloads ( https://www.immigration.go.th/immigration_stats ) I can only select the in-out stats?

[DrTuner]

4 hours ago, SPREX said:

https://www.immigration.go.th/immigration_stats

Got one like this for all countries, 2018 only?

 

I read this one as foreigners from top25 countries had 57292 extensions (approved?), which would be around 60k expats that aren't using back to back entries but staying in the country with extensions, as most have to be renewed yearly. Not a lot.

[SPREX]

12 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

This would be the new arrivals applying for first time and those already in country extending. Basically the answer to the OP question, how many expats, as most have to renew their temporary stay permits yearly. Now.. how did you conjure this one up, from the immigration page downloads ( https://www.immigration.go.th/immigration_stats ) I can only select the in-out stats?

The file is Url https://www.immigration.go.th/download/1561019325372.xlsx

 

What you download It is Excel file   with 442 000 lines of Visa  file all in Thai shall be translated before

you must to use Crosse table rebuilt data et compile years 2015-2016-2017-2018 is not easy Sir ...

This is is an spécific demo for Swiss People can be do for all Nationalité

The annual renew visa is incuded in data base because the range cover 12 months

The dat report temporary Stay do not manage Touristes

 

[DrTuner]

10 minutes ago, SPREX said:

The file is Url https://www.immigration.go.th/download/1561019325372.xlsx

 

What you download It is Excel file   with 442 000 lines of Visa  file all in Thai shall be translated before

you must to use Crosse table rebuilt data et compile years 2015-2016-2017-2018 is not easy Sir ...

Thanks, but that URL just downloads the 2018 in-out stats for me.

 

No problem with translation or crosstables or feeding it into a big data filter, can do. It's just that I can't access the raw data.

[SPREX]

25 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Got one like this for all countries, 2018 only?

 

I read this one as foreigners from top25 countries had 57292 extensions (approved?), which would be around 60k expats that aren't using back to back entries but staying in the country with extensions, as most have to be renewed yearly. Not a lot.

Yes  !  221 pays involved I can not print all countries is to big
The report data include reniew or In-Out
This is an demonstration about Nation English with rall reasons to stay the data cover Complet year that mind Reniew are considéred the number final is 2018 by cumul

 

[SPREX]

1 minute ago, DrTuner said:

Thanks, but that URL just downloads the 2018 in-out stats for me.

 

No problem with translation or crosstables or feeding it into a big data filter, can do. It's just that I can't access the raw data.

Be care with the number of reason ''alienate worker'' I do not find what mind may Work permit cancelled or finished

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory posts have been removed. 

 

A post containing a link to Bangkok Post has been removed. 

[CMNightRider]

16 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

For your sake I hope they don't know how to read Thai Visa

I think you are right.  In a police state, you have to be very careful what you say or write.

[oznomad]

23 hours ago, SPREX said:

Yes  !  221 pays involved I can not print all countries is to big
The report data include reniew or In-Out
This is an demonstration about Nation English with rall reasons to stay the data cover Complet year that mind Reniew are considéred the number final is 2018 by cumul

 

SPREX.

I will say it, as nobody else seems to have.

Thanks for finding and posting the data. ????

[Toadie]

As long as Aussies are counted as Poms I don't care. Being called a Yank is just wrong

[scorecard]

On 7/28/2019 at 12:38 PM, darksidedog said:

I know quite a few people who have left, so that is probably true, and of course there are numerous reasons for it. Given immigrations continuously tougher stance, you can only wonder if they are happy about the decline or whether they would be happy for even more of us to leave.

But is there another factor, Thailand trying to get it's house in order in terms of blocking foreigners who have a criminal records etc., and aiming for retirement foreigners who have a bigger income, rather than 'anybody can live in Thailand?

 

Fair re retirement folks?

[rexpotter]

At the end of June 2020, 83,450 Thai-born people were living in Australia, 61.8 per cent more than the number (51,570) at 30 June 2010. This makes the Thai-born population the twenty-second largest migrant community in Australia, equivalent to 1.1 per cent of Australia's overseas-born population and 0.3 per cent of Australia's total population.

 

Mate... this is the deal