I Appeal To All Westerners To Boycot My Bar

[ltdknowledge]

I'm not sure how this is going to fair with the moderators but here goes. First of all a warning. If you want to set a business up please use Sunbelt Asian or similar as i have been well and truley stung. I read on here many times about similar things and i just think what a fool, now i am the fool. I made an appointment to see Sunbelt with regards to setting a business up. After a coffee with my girlfriend, she convinced me that the money is a waste and that it could go on the bar, big mistake.

I started a bar in in Kai Bae, name i shall not mention as TV may not be comfortable with this, so pm me if you wish to know. I worked on this project myself, starting a 6am, and somtimes finishing at 12am, the bar looked great completely different to all the other bars on the island, many customers commented on that. I paid for everyhting in there, pool table, lights, tiles, rental you name it i paid for everything. As soon as the bar is up and running my girlfriend changes her attiude towards me. She formed a few thai friends and when i spoke to her there was no eye contact, half way through a conversation a thai friend would shout her and she would walk away as though i was worthless before the conversation had ended. This obviously made me feel uncomfortable and developed some friction between us. The turning point was when she made a comment about the quite season, and that i may have to return to the UK for work, in the same sentance she said "because we don't know what might happen in the future, i might meet another man, you might meet another woman" This obviously made me feel very uncomfortable baring in mind all the money i had just spent. I asked her why she said such a thing, she just blanked me. This led to a few days of ignoring each other until finaly i said we need to come to some arrangement. She didn't like any of the suggestions, phoned the owner of the land and i have since been removed and threatened by the police. I have done nothing wrong. The rental aggrement is in both our names but that is it. I met her in the UK over 2 years ago after she split with her husband, and i though this was genuine relationship. I feel that this has been her plan from the start. I don't know what to do now as i gave my business up to be here with her, paying for her house in Bangkok, a new car and so on, all of which i have lost. I'm the fool.

[andook]

Sorry to hear that, mate. If its any consolation, you arn't the first and certainly won't be the last to be had like this. Happens to best of us sometimes.

[TommyGun]

OMG. I can't believe i am reading this. You looked so happy together. I was in your bar a week or so ago and you recommended me here, and yet you spoke so highley of your wife. I'm sorry this has happened to you but if there is nothing you can do you must move on. These things are not worth getting angry over despite what you might be feeling right now. I can honestly say i am truley shocked. If you need to talk don't be affraid to do so.

Tommy.

[Jet Gorgon]

Get to a real lawyer, PDQ, with all the papers (especially receipts that show you paid for everything) and explain the situation. You can sort it out. Probably get the police in to get her out. I imagine she told a few bad stories about you, so clear it up pronto. Honest Thais will know you are being gutted and will back you if you go the honest route to clear this up.

[swanks]

My genuine condolences !

It is hard enough to end a relationship at any time but to realise you have been conned must be doubly so .

Have you taken advice from a lawyer about recovering some of the money?

It could also clarify the position with the Police , should they get involved , if you do that !

Also having the lawyers number handy can be very useful if dealing with them as they came down the worst excesses of there somewhat biased judgement if you have one' listening in '.

If it is of any comfort , I doubt if there are any of us reading this that has not been manipulated by a woman at some time , Thai , Fallang or both.

Recover what you can , including your pride , and move on seems the best advice!

[ltdknowledge]

Thanks for the replies. The police here are very biased, especially when they see this innocent woman with her 3 year old child. I have already been ganged upon by the bar next door and the police who frequents it. She is also threatening me by saying she can have anything done to me if she wishes. I'm hoping Sunbelt after speaking to them can help.

Edited March 17, 2007 by ltdknowledge

[garro]

Like everyone else I am really sorry for your troubles.

The only positive thing I can say is that it is very unlikely you will end up in the same situation again. You may have lost a lot of money but you have gained experience in what is needed to start up a business. Some people have plenty of money but would be unable to start a business because they lack a knack for it or just don't have the know-how.

I don't know your financial situation but many sucessful people have been able to start from scratch and become a big success story.

Did you have some good times with your ex? If so well then each good day showed be looked upon as a bonus but nothing lasts forever. There are plenty of good women in Thailand and around the world and when you find one I am sure you will notice the difference.

Don't regret the loss of money, see it as paying for your education.

But as others have said check out your legal options.

I wish you the best of luck but I am sure you know that sometimes we need to make our own luck. I always find that even in a terrible situation it sometimes helps to try and find some humor in it.

I hope this doesn't sound like a load of cliches.

[Bananaman]

My genuine condolences !

It is hard enough to end a relationship at any time but to realise you have been conned must be doubly so .

Have you taken advice from a lawyer about recovering some of the money?

It could also clarify the position with the Police , should they get involved , if you do that !

Also having the lawyers number handy can be very useful if dealing with them as they came down the worst excesses of there somewhat biased judgement if you have one' listening in '.

If it is of any comfort , I doubt if there are any of us reading this that has not been manipulated by a woman at some time , Thai , Fallang or both.

Recover what you can , including your pride , and move on seems the best advice!

Jet Gorgon, November Rain and other ladies on the forum, are you gonna let comments like this slip by unanswered?

[Mighty Mouse]

I'm sure it took quite a bit of intestinal fortitude for you to start this thread.

Unfortunately, your situation is quite common with many other farang bar/business owners over the past few decades.

I have seen many just walk away and I have seen many continue the business, albeit under very strained and emotional circumstances.

Some of those who continued on, witnessed their wifes' regular unfaithfulness but somehow managed not to let that interfere with the running of the business.

In spite of the obvious difficulty in their personal relationships, their businesses grew strong. They somehow managed to keep their emotions under control and concentrated on making the most of their bars. They too had the odd girlfriend but were very discreet about it.

Over the years their wives tired of their boyfriends and returned to the fold, so to speak. Their relationships re-commenced as though nothing happened.

If you are strong enough to start this thread, you are strong enough to keep going. There must be a way and I sincerely hope that you can find it.

I won't wish you good luck because good luck is not enough. You need support more than anything.

Keep going, never say 'die.' Your dream of running a successful business should still be your main goal. Some unexpected hurdles have been placed on your path but where there's a will, there's a way.

Don't let this hiccup spoil your life.

[Jet Gorgon]

Don't give in, ltdk. I don't know your whole story, but I know farang who's GFs took their property and the guys went to the tourist police. Same story, time and again. Most recovered their possessions, even those on tourist visas. Let us know how you do, and best of luck.

[mpdkorat]

To be honest mate you would most likely have lost the money anyway. Most bars go under on Kho Chang. She will not last long IMHO.

[tijnebijn]

This is really disturbing .But I think you should play the smart guy ,maybe try to take as many money back as you can,at least the car etc.Proberly everything is in her name,and most people you will find not cooperating with you.The biggest obstacle will be the language,when speaking thai pretty well you can at least try to make your point.Your wife clearly had this plan beforehand,and is trying to scare you of.The first thing to do is to close your wallet,and try to like some posters said to prove things are coming out of your pocket,but I doubt things will work out well.Maybe try to play stupid and get her back in a way she not thinks you could,after that plan is in practise you can take the finger right in her nose.....'I think you just not lucky' I am wondering why she broke up with her former boyfriend......maybe they planned this together and he is coming to take your place ,cause he is a born looser.......Try to take the story together first...will not surprise me....But do not forget not all thai woman are like this......like many farang woman could be like this as well....But it seems to be common practise....Try to play smart,she proberly when she feels uncomfortable come up with something like she loves you again or something,and you do too,taking you assets back and go on,give her a life experience and let her learn that this is not a way to get along with anyone,not that she will learn any,but just give her the chance,and knowing you did nothing wrong,......you have nothing to feel guilty about Figure things out and maybe ask the police to talk to her ,at least tourist police that she makes you feel unsafe,and ask them to make a visit to the place,or maybe close the place.She will egt uncomfortable and you can sell the place,or the assets.....I mean you not have nothing to stand on,good luck and be more smart the next time,I mean more careful.

[garro]

I am not one for cliches but;

"Everything happens for a reason."

"If you were meant to be together, you'd be together."

"You are so young, you have time to find the right one."

"You are too nice for him." or "It's for the best."

"No man or woman is worth your tears and the one who is won't make you cry."

"There's a cover for every pot."

"Time heals all wounds."

"It obviously wasn’t meant to be."

"It couldn’t have been 'right."

"There are other fish in the sea."

"Whatever is for ye won’t go by ye."

"Men (women) are like buses – another one will be along in 15 minutes."

"Things always work out for the best."

"You’ll get over it."

"Someone better is just around the corner."

"What comes around goes around."

"You get back what you give."

"They’ll get theirs."

"He (she) will regret it."

"When one door closes another one opens."

[StickKettleOn]

****. Horrible, coniving little****.

Forgive me, you may not apprecaite my choice of words for a woman you love/d but that has infuriated me. Im sick of reading these stories. The con will always be there.

To lead you along and encourage you to create a home and business, whilst (almost certainly) maintaining a reltionship with her Thai boyfriend is pure evil. And let me tell you pal, she almost certainly does have a TB playing the strings. You probably met him. Jeez you probably brought him a beer (think long and hard about that Cousin or Brother she introduced you to).

You cant blame her friends. Her friends have probably been told that you are an evil ferang who beats her. They probably encourage her because she has filled there heads full of crap.

As for the police, as other posters have suggested i would advise you not to be put off by a few local stupid boys in brown. They are just local plods with not two brain cells to put together. Trust me, on sight of a few tourist police and a decent lawyer, theywill soon back off. If it was me, I would relocate to Bangkok/Pattaya for a short while obviously not telling her where I was. Employ the servces of Sunbelt who will be able to arange a decent lawyer. Do everything you can to close down the business and get as much of the money back as you can. When you have to visit the premises or indeed your evil cocksucker of a woman, only do do with a lawyer and tourist police involved. SHow them you mena business.

All of this may cost you - but even if it costs you half of what you get back, you can take commfort that she is not living it up in the bar, toasting a Chang with her TB, laughing at the stupid ferrang. If you sweep the rug from under her feet, she will more likely be getting a slap or two from her TB/pimp for letting the stupid ferrang get the better of them.

Again, forgive me. Im ranting and my opinions are strong. I just hate to see good people get ######ed over like this.

Good luck.

[thaiprivateeye]

I totally agree with the OP's opening statement:

First of all a warning. If you want to set a business up please use Sunbelt Asian or similar as i have been well and truly stung."

I have lost count of the times I have been asked to help out after the fact... After the scam!

I always advise them (male and/or female) to seek legal advice and preferably NOT chose a lawyer that lives in the same area, as they too may not act in your best interest... Remember they have to live here (especially if they are Thai Lawyers) you don't...

At the end of the day the best comment I have seen so far is that of garro:

"Don't regret the loss of money, see it as paying for your education."

Whatever you do don't lose your temper!

I am not too sure about mpdkorat’s comment: "To be honest mate you would most likely have lost the money anyway. Most bars go under on Kho Chang. She will not last long IMHO."

As I don’t know the numbers involved. But everyone, and I mean every one I know who run's a bar tell me it's no picnic. If she does not have the correct managerial background or business acumen to run a successful business then she is doomed anyway...

Just sit back until your lawyer is finished with the case.

Don’t go rubbishing her bar while you are living on the island!

Move off the island then give your honest opinion of the place on as many Thai related forums as possible…

But move on with your life and let this be a lesson learned…

Next time I am in the area I will make it a point to go there (PM me with the Bars name) and drop a few hints... Maybe other BMs would do that also...

These sort of pre-meditated scams really piss me off...

TPE II

ps.If it's your bar then why can't you name it openly? But move away first...

Edited March 17, 2007 by thaiprivateeye

[Jimjim]

I'm interested to hear more about the background of your scamming girl. And how long have you two been together?

[bkkmadness]

I'm interested to hear more about the background of your scamming girl. And how long have you two been together?

Why?

[tomsmith]

Dude,

Do you work for Sunbelt? Why not mention name of bar? Thai women, don't you love them?

Buddha's precept, don't sell alcohol. Sum num na (serves you right) come to Buddhist country with that crap.

Sorry about the lost money and love but most Thai women that have anything to do with a bar is most likely trouble.

Another one of the greats sayings is, “nothing lasts”

My own experience don’t use lawyers who heavily advertise, you will be taken again.

Litigation in Thailand takes many years, just suck in your gut and call it a loss and save what cash you have left for the next bar girl.

If bar girls is what you want just go out and pick another one and buy her everything she wants and see how long that lasts too.

Wow, no wonder all the farmer girls come to the bars they are full of unlimited sick love birds giving away all their money.

[StickKettleOn]

Tomsmith - He met the girl in the UK. Maybe she was a BG previously, maybe not. The fact is he did not drag the first munchkin he could find out of a Angel Witch bar and buy her a house/bar. He was with her two years and they met in the Uk.

That said, would be interesting to know what happened to the poor sucker she divorced in the UK, and how much he is left with.

Bitch.

[kratindaeng]

Sorry to hear about your experiences, however I feel all is not lost if you were to research a good lawyer, and get back whats rightfully yours, and then get the hel_l out of the place, as people could make life 'difficult' for you. It has been a horrible experience for you, wish you all the best, but the most important thing is, 'dont give up'...Play it cool and get back whats yours. As for the 'woman', I wouldnt p*ss on her if she were on fire.

Goodluck mate

KD

[ThaiFelix]

Don't mean to sound unsympathetic but it would sure be nice to hear the other side of the story (not likely) before making comments.

But one thing comes to mind. I have lived here for two years now, am happily married, and have a lot of respect for my Thai wife. Funny thing is every time we go to the local talaat, and thats about 4 times a week, I hear the same comments made to my wife ...'is he good to you?', 'does he beat you?', 'is he a butterfly?', 'does he drink all his money?' etc etc.

Where does this all come from, surely not just (common) vivid imaginations.

Then there is the other side of the coin. I have known a lot of Thai women who have befriended farang men in the past and often hear the comments...'he said he wanted to marry me but went home suddenly, never to be heard from again', 'he said to please wait for him but its now 3 years since I hear from him', 'he spent all his money in a bar and I had to lend him the money for his hotel and taxi to airport, he said he would send me the money, but..' and so it goes.

And yes, I have met bad ones as well. I have also be taken to the cleaners by a couple of farang gals as well.

As someone so wisely said 'you have paid for your education'

My sympathies and good luck (but please be careful!)

[Pattayaman]

Dude,

Do you work for Sunbelt? Why not mention name of bar? Thai women, don't you love them?

Buddha's precept, don't sell alcohol. Sum num na (serves you right) come to Buddhist country with that crap.

Sorry about the lost money and love but most Thai women that have anything to do with a bar is most likely trouble.

Another one of the greats sayings is, “nothing lasts”

My own experience don’t use lawyers who heavily advertise, you will be taken again.

Litigation in Thailand takes many years, just suck in your gut and call it a loss and save what cash you have left for the next bar girl.

If bar girls is what you want just go out and pick another one and buy her everything she wants and see how long that lasts too.

Wow, no wonder all the farmer girls come to the bars they are full of unlimited sick love birds giving away all their money.

Man try to put your brain into gear before your mouth runs riot

[Cyberstar]

Get to a real lawyer, PDQ, with all the papers (especially receipts that show you paid for everything) and explain the situation. You can sort it out. Probably get the police in to get her out. I imagine she told a few bad stories about you, so clear it up pronto. Honest Thais will know you are being gutted and will back you if you go the honest route to clear this up.

Have you taken advice from a lawyer about recovering some of the money?

It could also clarify the position with the Police , should they get involved , if you do that !

Also having the lawyers number handy can be very useful if dealing with them as they came down the worst excesses of there somewhat biased judgement if you have one' listening in '.

Sorry to hear about your experiences, however I feel all is not lost if you were to research a good lawyer, and get back whats rightfully yours, and then get the hel_l out of the place, as people could make life 'difficult' for you. It has been a horrible experience for you, wish you all the best, but the most important thing is, 'dont give up'...Play it cool and get back whats yours. As for the 'woman', I wouldnt p*ss on her if she were on fire.

You guys are as naive as OP... First of all - there's nothing that even slightly indicates the GF doesn't rightfully own whatever OP has paid in her name - no law against a women accepting generous gifts from her boyfriend ... Second - there's nothing that even slightly indicates that the GF didn't truly have good intentions with the relationship --- until the hard facts of life (running a bar) stroke in ... Based on what OP has posted: his stupidity is the only thing to blame for his bad luck ... The OP has been a fool - now he's a bit wiser.

[Mobi]

ltdknowledge, I am sorry to hear of your unfortunate experience.

Tomsmith's post is unnecessary, unfeeling, inaccurate, and totally unhelpful. Please ignore him. (Unfortunately, Thai Visa seems to be attracting more and more of these reprehensible characters.)

In my view there is little you can do to recover any of your outgoings from this lady, but by all means consult with Sunbelt. I have no connection with them, but can assure you that their fees are not unreasonable, and they are a firm of integrity. They also have some very canny, streetwise Thais, as well as Farang senior management, and if anything can be done, they will advise you.

Some years ago I too was ripped off by a Thai lady, and after fighting through the courts for over 2 years, I eventually managed to recover some of my money. However the circumstances were quite different to yours and I had documentary evidence, plus witnesses who attested to the fraud in court, and to this day there is a police warrant out for her arrest, as she still remains in hiding. In my situation, she never enlisted the police to assist her, as she never dreamt I would go to the police myself, so I got the upper edge early on in the game.

Clearly, in your situation she has already the local police on her side, and it will be difficult, if not impossible for you to turn that around. Even if you go elsewhere, or to a higher police authority for help, they would be very reluctant to interfere with the ‘local position’. Also, from what you have posted, it would be relatively easy for her to claim that you had given her the bar, etc., especially in the current anti farang climate. Did you hold a work permit to run the bar? If not, this may be another black mark against you.

Anyway, not doubt Sunbelt will give you good advice. Don’t go for a ‘no name’ local lawyer – they will take your money and promise the earth and in probability take money from your ex as well. Don’t trust them.

There were times during the 2 years it took me to recover some of my money that I wished that I had never pursued it and just wrote it off and got on with my life. It seemed to be hanging round my neck forever, and until it was finally settled, I was unable to put it out of my mind.

You may want to consider this before you decide what to do.

Good luck.

[terry57]

Get to a real lawyer, PDQ, with all the papers (especially receipts that show you paid for everything) and explain the situation. You can sort it out. Probably get the police in to get her out. I imagine she told a few bad stories about you, so clear it up pronto. Honest Thais will know you are being gutted and will back you if you go the honest route to clear this up.

hello MS Jet my top friend,

if this guy was in a western country this would be the correct way to go, but unfortunatly things dont work this way in los.

if a farang falls in love with a girl, and does things like this without thinking about the concequences, he will surely find himself down the shitter.

it not as easy as going to a lawyer as they play by different rules over here.

the majority of the time its, cut your loses and walk away with your life vowing not to be so trusting next time.

not worth getting killed over.

the answer to the problem is not to let yourself invest your hard earned money on the promise of a thai girl.

even if you have a water proof legal contract, when the <deleted> hits the fan you will always be on the losing end as you are a farang.

very easy reasoning actually.

one must only invest what one can afford to walk away from.

live by this rule and success is certain.

thank you very much.

[bkkmadness]

Mobi seems to offer his experience which is contrary to your advice Terry. He went though the courts and won. All this advice saying that farang shouldn't use legal methods because Thais always win is bullshit.

That being said, only if the OP has a real case can he use this method. I would guess though he doesn't have any documentation or names on papers concerning the bar, and I think as Mobi said all the work he done on the bar was probably undertaken illegally. The Ops probably up sh1t creek but if he thinks he does have a case then he should approach a reputable lawyer and see what can be done. I would also advise sunbelt in this instance.

[Robski]

one must only invest what one can afford to walk away from.

That is so true in Thailand especially.

What a terrible shame that Thailands reputation is going down the toilet in so many ways,

with foreigners being scammed out of their investments, greed seems to be the general motivation.

Of course there are plenty of good stories to counter this and you could say that the op should have taken more care in his investment,

but it is not the Thailand of legend anymore, the Land of Smiles.

Edited March 17, 2007 by Robski

[jumnien]

I'm sure in the future you will look back and be very glad this experience ended so quickly. Move on and enjoy life. Opening a bar in a buddhist country riddled with alcoholism is probably karmically doomed from the onset. You have helped others who might be tempted to do the same.

[Jet Gorgon]

IMHO, I think the OP has a chance to reclaim some of his losses.

But, as friend Terry57 pointed out, it's not worth being killed for. Don't know how tight the locals and police are on Koh Chang, but if the ex is party pals with the police this is a prob.

We are all speculating, so tis best for the OP to seek good legal help. If he has the receipts for everything, that's step one.

I was ripped off by farang I was only trying to help. Huh, cannot send the bills to Europe.

[smartecosse]

Hey

Another fool and ex Bar filth, when do they remove their brain's? When they meet girl.

When do they have them replaced, when the money run's out.

that pretty much sums it up

its a shame it happened but then ufortunately there is always a new sucker waiting in the wings to step in and look after the " wee angel"

as another poster says, wonder how much she took the last guy for

you ain't got a hope of getting back the cash, cars, condo ect as they are all gifts etc. More fool you for buying them all in her name to start with - harsh as ^%^$ I know but the truth

as someone said - move on, it aint worth getting killed for