56 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Potentially dangerous stuff!!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5938543/  

 

That's a worthless reference.  It's an online only journal, and the articles aren't peer reviewed.  Anyone can submit any old tosh.

6 hours ago, CLW said:

14 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

I am still waiting for a review of mineral waters. On none´s label I see what´s exactly inside like on western labels. I always buy them full of hope that they are more heathy than drinking water - and pay much more.

Aura mineral water has it for sure. Mont Fleur I'm pretty sure as well.

Thanks. I will check when I am next time in a supermarket. At Aura´s website I can´t find exact information. 

4 hours ago, Oxx said:

Anyone can submit any old tosh.

Or not as the case may be..........plenty of references provided??

 

I am one of those individuals who is sensitive to the effects of larger doses of MSG (as in the half ladle full I saw being added to my meal) although am ok with that which is considered normal in foods.

 

 

16 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

That looks like the stuff my wife makes, though she calls it "J-O".  (jeow, jaew?) It is great with sticky rice and veggies.  She uses the big light green chilies that aren't too hot, though may spice it up a bit.

My wife and our neighbours make their own with no preservatives. It doesn't last ass long but at least you know that it is fresh.

8 hours ago, rwill said:

Those preservatives are preserving you too.

Nah. Hong Thong, ice and soda do that for me.

30 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Or not as the case may be..........plenty of references provided??

 

Not a single quality journal amongst them that I could see.  Mostly "publish for free on the Internet" articles.

 

You're mistaking quantity with quality.

 

It's only one step away from citing Mercola and Oz as authoritative sources.

 

 

What's happening,they are actually naming the dodgy products,

and even showing pictures of them,it's usually product xxxx

contains deadly toxins, and your left in the dark,I remember 

a few years ago they tested toothpaste and found that 3 brands contained

contaminates,but they were not named,so i suppose people kept

on using them, there needs to be more name and shame,they should

not be allowed to hide behind the law.

regards worgeordie

29 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

Not a single quality journal amongst them that I could see.  Mostly "publish for free on the Internet" articles.

 

You're mistaking quantity with quality.

 

It's only one step away from citing Mercola and Oz as authoritative sources.

 

 

Taking the time and effort to publish a paper(s) on this would be useless if there was no end result to it??

 

Mercola and Oz have products to sell......these folk don't.

 

So I'll stay away from those restaurants which pile MSG into/on their food because I don't like the results, and will continue to read articles on this subject, as many have stated that "the jury is still out" in one form or another........an open mind.

13 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Taking the time and effort to publish a paper(s) on this would be useless if there was no end result to it??

 

So I'll stay away from those restaurants which pile MSG into/on their food because I don't like the results, and will continue to read articles on this subject, as many have stated that "the jury is still out" in one form or another........an open mind.

 

To continue working in science these days one needs to publish a lot of papers (even if they're of dubious quality).  It's difficult to get published in traditional journals now.  They're peer reviewed, and they often require payment to be published.  The end results of publishing shoddy science in online journals is that one gets one's publication count up.  It's absolutely no guarantee of quality, and is usually quite the opposite.  So, the end results is continued employment.

 

As for "the jury is still out", the reality is that there's no serious scientific evidence that MSG is in any way harmful to human beings when consumed in reasonable quantities.  However, quacks and scaremongers like to continue the myth that in some way it's not good for you.  It's a bit like climate change.  The evidence is incontrovertible, but there are still a few individuals who are either in absolute denial, or say "the jury is still out".  (It's not.)

22 hours ago, CLW said:

I'm surprised, these look very much like proper products that require an FDA approval and must pass their tests.

So either the producers sent modified products to the testing, the FDA is not testing for preservatives or some other kind of corruption or forging.

In USA and Europe one could start a lawsuit and sue them. But not in a third world country as Thailand.

Currently doing a training in one of the biggest and most prestigious laboratories in Thailand, for export certification the producers sent in their own sample. There is no independent third party or random test by organisations or the government. This practice makes it top easy for sending forged samples that not represent the real average products. It then can only be detected by random custom checks of the importing country.

Interesting experience. 

 

Yeah, anyone with even a little common sense would treat ANY Thai claims with suspicion. 

 

As for food safety, even in modern countries with strong institutions, many scandals still occur. In Thailand, the commonplace detachment from truth and the lack of any institutions for checks and balances creates an environment where nothing at all can be trusted. 

14 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

To continue working in science these days one needs to publish a lot of papers (even if they're of dubious quality).  It's difficult to get published in traditional journals now.  They're peer reviewed, and they often require payment to be published.  The end results of publishing shoddy science in online journals is that one gets one's publication count up.  It's absolutely no guarantee of quality, and is usually quite the opposite.  So, the end results is continued employment.

 

As for "the jury is still out", the reality is that there's no serious scientific evidence that MSG is in any way harmful to human beings when consumed in reasonable quantities.  However, quacks and scaremongers like to continue the myth that in some way it's not good for you.  It's a bit like climate change.  The evidence is incontrovertible, but there are still a few individuals who are either in absolute denial, or say "the jury is still out".  (It's not.)

Thanks for the info and I only hope that the 37 papers that my doctor son has authored/co-authored (in London) are of good "quality"!

 

I do know that larges doses of MSG affect me so I would presume some others also suffer likewise??

 

This was also posted on TV a few years back.........

 

 "We conducted oral challenge studies in self-identified MSG-sensitive subjects to determine whether they had a statistically significant difference in the incidence of their specific symptoms after ingestion of MSG compared with placebo. Total and average severity of symptoms after ingestion of MSG (374 and 80) were greater than respective values after placebo ingestion. Rechallenge revealed an apparent threshold dose for reactivity of 2.5 gm MSG. Headache (p < 0.023), muscle tightness (p < 0.004), numbness/tingling (p < 0.007), general weakness (p < 0.040), and flushing (p< 0.016) occurred more frequently after MSG than placebo ingestion". Yang WH, Drouin MA, Herbert M, Mao Y, Karsh J., J Allergy Clin Immunol.1997 Jun;99(6 Pt 1):757-62

 

"Significant accumulation of glutamate was observed in rats following addition of sodium glutamate to the diet as compared to levels with a regular diet. In the retinal morphology, thickness of retinal neuronal layers was remarkably thinner in rats fed on sodium glutamate diets than in those on a regular diet. The present study suggests that a diet with excess sodium glutamate over a period of several years may increase glutamate concentrations and may cause retinal cell destruction. Note: There were two groups who received MSG. One received a "moderate excess" and the other received a "large excess" of MSG in their diet. Both these diets showed retinal cell destruction". Ohguro H et al., Exp Eye Res. 2002 Sep;75(3):307-15

 

"The results indicate that exposure to MSG in early life in rats could lead to subtle behavioral aberrations in late adulthood".Ali MM, Bawari M, Misra UK, Babu GN., Neurosci Lett. 2000 Apr 21;284(1-2):57-60.

 

Anyway off topic so I will go with what I know affects me.

6 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Yang WH, Drouin MA, Herbert M, Mao Y, Karsh J., J Allergy Clin Immunol.1997 Jun;99(6 Pt 1):757-62

 

Note that that study involved a very small number of individuals (61) so isn't ideal.  These individuals self-identified as being sensitive to MSG, yet when given MSG, yet only 22 of them claimed to have symptoms when given MSG but not when given the placebo, which is not statistically significant (P = 0.3).  21 individuals claimed symptoms after being given the placebo - an almost identical proportion.

 

This does rather point to sensitivity to MSG being psychosomatic, not physical in origin.

13 minutes ago, Oxx said:

This does rather point to sensitivity to MSG being psychosomatic, not physical in origin.

Well the effects on me (without originally knowing what caused them) were most unpleasant, but I will say that when I eventually saw the amount the cook was throwing in the food, I never went back!

Interesting experience. 
 
Yeah, anyone with even a little common sense would treat ANY Thai claims with suspicion. 
 
As for food safety, even in modern countries with strong institutions, many scandals still occur. In Thailand, the commonplace detachment from truth and the lack of any institutions for checks and balances creates an environment where nothing at all can be trusted. 

I follow the media from home quite often and hear occasionally about product recalls but never heard that in Thailand. Could be a language problem as well.
But given the lax attitude of how things are produced here and the massive loss of face / image to admit there has been an error / mistake I guess they're all swept under the carpet.

I agree the laws are still to lax in regards to companies that break the law. In regards to food safety, this should be a serious issue. In the west there would be massive recalls and heavy fines.
 
In regards to testing, I do send my products to Intertek and SGS for testing to prove my products are safe. It is not true there there is no independent or random test by organizations, it really depends on what the customer requires. I have customers who does random factory inspections, the company I deal with in the US and Japan is big and strict, they also test our products independently on their side. But yes, factories could send in a different sample to test while making something totally different. But those that export, majority would not do that unless they are really stupid to kill their own business (which of course still happens).

I'm with you. However, knowing the inactivity and lazyness of Thai authorities I'm sure they not do random testing of products.
Every time you hear something in the news about contaminated products it's discovered either by a non profit organisation or the foreign customs.

3 hours ago, CLW said:

Every time you hear something in the news about contaminated products it's discovered either by a non profit organisation or the foreign customs.

 

Yep, that pretty much tells the story here... Officialdom is worthless and useless when it comes to actually inspecting or enforcing anything to keep the public safe and healthy. That's why the Thailand-based labels for "organic" and such are pretty much worthless.

 

On 8/1/2019 at 10:33 PM, bangrak said:

Is 'Thai cuisine' toxic? Yes, IMO, definitely, but not any bit more than, say, chinese, indon, vietnamese, cambodian, ..., food! So what to do? Cook as much as you can at home, avoiding ready-to-mix 'preparations'; have, an odd few, 'eateries' you, fingers crossed, choose to trust (mai, mai, no 'sugar', kap, chin kap...), ...and watch them preparing your dish every now and then; go to crazily expensive resorts, ...still with fingers crossed. No better solution for you, after so many years, it's as if, as so many other bad stuff, it got 'into the genes', ...and all comes from 'motherland' China! Hail China! Bah!!!

 

And if there was only that ..
Watch how the cold chain is respected;
in fact not respected at all because no one has taught them what it is.

On 8/2/2019 at 11:07 AM, hotchilli said:

In Thailand you have to give what's written on food labels some latitude compared to what's actually in the product... 

The funny thing is when you add up the percentage of different products on a box of food or a bottle of some product you never get 100% 

On 8/1/2019 at 7:48 PM, YTP said:

Why don't you just learn the words for sugar and msg then?

With those spectacular Thai language skills no wonder you are a farang mai ru rueang.

Thank you for your intelligent reaction. I meant it like many a Thai would address a Farang visiting its stall, sorry it was not clear enough for you. And I wonder how many here would know what nahm tan is, anyway. Mai pen rai...

10 minutes ago, bangrak said:

And I wonder how many here would know what nahm tan is,

 

sugar = น้ำตาล without the "h" in nam ( water ) should be better ...no "h" in " nam " in thai language .

6 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

 

sugar = น้ำตาล without the "h" in nam ( water ) should be better ...no "h" in " nam " in thai language .

Thank you, 'professor', but outside of pure form, could you understand a bit of the content itself, when it could have mattered...? I stop here, I see Asterix getting bright red in the face, ...and Obelix has just finished delivering his menhirs, so watch out, or you'll end up gagged(!), and tied to a tree for a couple of days... LOL!