Unemployed - is Thailand an option?

[Blue Mango]

I'm a Brit living in the UK, having visited Thailand every year for the past 20 years (usually 2/3 times per year). I've thought for a long time I'll probably move to Thailand when I retire. 

But at the age of 49 I was made redundant in Oct last year, and have spent the last 8/9 months trying to get job and also trying to start up my own business. All the time seeing my redundancy pay and savings slowly being eaten away. 

 

I just turned 50 and I'm reaching a kind of 'do or die' point in my life. I can't get a job, I'm not succeeding at starting a business, and I have about 6 months of money left at the current burn rate. If I sell my house I'll have ~GBP275k after paying off the mortgage. I could then rent a place in the UK, buy an apartment in Spain which I can get some income from while eeking out the rest of my cash until I can start dipping into several private pensions at age 55. 

 

Or, I could look at making the move to Thailand sooner than planned. I like spending time in Samui, Phuket, Krabi, and also getting close to nature, jungle stays, fishing etc., but I'm not sure I could live in a jungle type area. I do like nightlife and (Thai) women, but I'm not a big fan of Patts (I don't knock anyone who is). 

I could possibly base myself in Bkk and go to those other places as and when. In Bkk I might even find work - I was in financial services for 30 years. 

 

I suppose my questions are, if I take the plunge, sell my house and get GBP275k, could I make a decent life in LOS, what would be the best option in terms of accommodation (buy condo, rent etc.), and could I stretch those funds out for another 5 years until I can dip into pensions? 

 

Cheers

 

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Blue Mango

[mstevens]

If you sold your house you'd have near enough 10 million baht. I think most people would agree that you can live a comfortable enough life in Thailand on 1 million baht a year so let's assume your money could last 10 years or so (just to keep things simple).

 

The question then becomes whether the money you are going to get from private pensions at age 55 will be enough to live on and whether those pensions are indexed for inflation. If they are, then you're probably in a position where you could make the move and be comfortable for the rest of your life.

 

FWIW, I have friends who are not in nearly as good a position as you and they are quite happy with their life in Thailand and feel they have enough to be happy.

 

There's obviously a lot more to it and many other things to think about but if your pensions are significant, you should be able to make the move now.

[Chelseafan]

I agree with @mstevens.

Also, I know this is easy to say but you live your life once. Sometimes you just have to take a punt.

 

[sunnyboy2018]

Rent your UK house out to generate an income.  Spain is not realistic until Brexit has been resolved nor is selling your house now a good idea. Do not burn your bridges.  Hang on to your UK property. 

[RAZZELL]

If you are single RENT a property.

 

I can't see the £ going anywhere for 5 years.

 

RAZZ

[GinBoy2]

I'm always firmly in the 'don't burn bridges' wing of TVF.

 

Rent out your house in the UK and see how it goes. That will give you income coupled with what you still have in the bank, should be enough to deposit the ฿800K for a retirement extension.

 

Then just see how it goes. Rent, don't buy.

 

The worst thing I see are guys that vacation in Thailand, decide to go 'all in' sell up everything at home, then when everything goes tits up, have no bolt hole to go back to.

 

Thats the root cause of a lot of grumpy old bar stool dwelling expats

 

 

[RAZZELL]

To add...I was not in too different a situation (apart from unfortunately I was working)

 

My wife (who is Thai) got offered a very good job back in Thailand. So after nearly ten years in the UK, we left just over one year ago and rented our house out.

 

After a year the tenants moved out and I flew back. It took me 4-5 weeks to re-decorate. Would've cost me a fortune if I was paying.

 

So, we have decided to sell. My parents are elderly and don't need the grief. Personally, I don't see the housing market or the £ going anywhere for about 5 years. If you look at the historic £/baht graphs the average over the last twenty or so years is around 50. I'm praying it eventually goes up to somewhere around there.

 

With regards to coming to live in Bangkok.

 

It is a lot more expensive than you think. Being on holiday or in "holiday mode" you don't tend to worry about prices. But trust me...you easily need 60-100k a month in Bangkok (before the "Cheap Charlies" pipe up - retirement income has to be 60k a month!)

 

A "decent" condo to rent in the middle of Bangkok is maybe 20-40k. If you enjoy going out to the tourist/entertainment areas beers are expensive. 90 baht in happy hour or 130 for a bottle... and up! 

 

From the sound of it the OP is single? That's another factor 

 

From my humble experience, I would rent a condo/serviced apartment in the middle of the City for a few months and "get it out of your system".

 

Living in the suburbs is totally different - when we stay at our house we hardly spend anything.

 

Still haven't bought a car as we have no need for one. But will probably buy a cheapie in the next few months.

 

When I eventually sell my house I will probably leave most of the £ in the UK, maybe buy some shares, and then I will open a £ deposit account here.

 

If you need any specifics send me a PM.

 

 

RAZZ

 

 

 

 

 

 

[elgenon]

8 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Rent your UK house out to generate an income.  Spain is not realistic until Brexit has been resolved nor is selling your house now a good idea. Do not burn your bridges.  Hang on to your UK property. 

Curious as to how you see house prices going after Brexit.

[seancbk]

10 hours ago, Blue Mango said:

I suppose my questions are, if I take the plunge, sell my house and get GBP275k, could I make a decent life in LOS, what would be the best option in terms of accommodation (buy condo, rent etc.), and could I stretch those funds out for another 5 years until I can dip into pensions? 

 

As others have said, don't sell your UK Property, rent it out and get some income from it.

Don't buy in Thailand.   Rent even in Bangkok can be very reasonable, especially if you are realistic about the type of place you need at your still relatively young age.   

I have lived in Bangkok for over 10 years and based on what you've said I'd say go for it.   Hopefully your background in Financial Services means you are smart with your money and not going to turn one of those guys who spends all their time and money on beer and hookers.

[1FinickyOne]

you were in financial services and you come to Thai visa for life and  financial advice? 

 

make your pros and cons list... if you dont know specific costs maybe ask that

 

but seriously... make your own choices... life is more fulfilling that way. 

[hanssna]

I agree as well, rent out your house for a while and see how things are going, and where in Thailand you feel the most comfortable. Could be, you don't like to stay in Bangkok after a while anyway, and still prefer the jungle / beach area. ( well, I do... ) 

In 2001 when I came to Thailand I rented out my place as well, only many years later when I was sure of making ends meet here in Thailand, I sold up. Now happy with the house I have been building, but glad I waited a long time to make this decision …  

[geoffbezoz]

Well as you say you have been in financial services for thirty years and you are now 50 that means since around 20 years old you should by now have adequate experience in financial planning without asking the question on this forum surely ?

 

Putting that to one side my only suggestion to you would be to not listen or take the slightest bit of advice from any members who post about property investment in Thailand. Rent by all means as others have said but at realistic rents, not the Farang rent. Investing on the Thai stock exchange would bring you a return of around 4.9% pa on current 10 year performance of a spread of major companies so that may be worth some consideration.

[London Boy]

I agree with all the posters who have suggested renting your house. I was able to move to Bangkok at the age of 43 on the back of rental income from property in London. Selling now would be a mistake as prices in the Uk are quite flat with the Brexit uncertainty, and you already know how bad the exchnage rate is.

 

[murraynz]

i dont know the rental property situation in the uk...but as several have suggested--'dont burn your bridges'.

it would certainly be unwise to bring large money into thailand at present{very low exchange rates]

is the job situation realy that bad ??? at 50yrs old you have to cater for your next 35yrs or so...

i cant think of much worse , than being broke, in your later stages of life...

im sure the return on a rental house are very small ?? there are always many problems with tenants, especially if you are absent.

is there any other property types or syndicates that you can invest in...??? i get 8% return on commercial prop syndicate, plus cap gains...

i dont know your pension situation in uk ?? but if you leave early, will that jepardise your pension???

if not-- you still probably have 15yrs to wait-thats along time..

sure-- you can live much more cheaply in thailand, but there are many temptations to spend money on...

if you were you ---i would be much 'more actively' looking for ANY type of work ,to get you through next few years until your pension...

to some people 10m thb sounds like a lot---i dont think it is , if its not generating a good income for the next 30 +yrs...

if you were to live on that alone, it will erode fairly quickly.

at 50yrs old-- and paying rent in thailand---i would say --any budget under 30,000thb/mth will give you a very very very boring life...

think carefully-before you jump---good luck---at least you have quite a bit more than many of the 'deadbeats' that move here...they always have excuses why they have no nest egg for retirement...

 

[CNXexpat]

I had a condo in Hamburg/Germany and thought about to rent it out or sell it. I decided to sell it because I am too far away if there are some problems. Got 300,000 Euros for it and invested the money in dividend stocks. 

 

12 hours ago, Blue Mango said:

I like spending time in Samui, Phuket, Krabi, and also getting close to nature, jungle stays, fishing etc., but I'm not sure I could live in a jungle type area. I do like nightlife and (Thai) women

You´ll need a lot of money for that, especially for women and nightlife. No idea what´s your pension in the future - and what is the rate of the GBP.

[timendres]

While I agree with those saying that it is very easy to spend 60,000 to 90,000 or more per month living in Bangkok, it is also possible to live quite nicely for around 40,000. Under that, and you really do have to make serious sacrifices. Previously, I had a very nice one bedroom apartment in Din Daeng - 42 sqm, two balconies, two bathrooms, nice bedroom and living room, and maid service twice a week - 18,000 per month including the utilities. I was able to walk to Fortune, Tesco, Central Plaza, MRT Rama 9, and Esplanade. That left me with 22,000 per month (assuming the 40k I mentioned) for living. That is quite doable, if you are not spending on entertainment every night. I was spending 6k on food, 3k at Tesco for incidentals, 2k for smokes, and 2k every weekend to go out. Every month I had some money left over. Heath insurance, of course, would throw a spanner into those numbers.

[onekoolguy]

11 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Rent your UK house out to generate an income.  Spain is not realistic until Brexit has been resolved nor is selling your house now a good idea. Do not burn your bridges.  Hang on to your UK property. 

If you are a new landlord I really would not recommend this. Once you leave you are not going to want to get the phone calls and you will probably have times when you have to get on a plane and return to deal with rental matters.

Just sell it while it is in good condition and invest the money. Enjoy your early retirement!

[DJ54]

OP think about what’s been mentioned and then come out rent a 

place for 2-3 months at a price and area you’d choose if here full time. See how it works for you and make a decision based on your 

real experience. Track your expenditures and see if that’s workable.

 

All the best to you... Enjoy life 

[khunPer]

11 hours ago, Blue Mango said:

I just turned 50 and I'm reaching a kind of 'do or die' point in my life. I can't get a job, I'm not succeeding at starting a business, and I have about 6 months of money left at the current burn rate. If I sell my house I'll have ~GBP275k after paying off the mortgage. I could then rent a place in the UK, buy an apartment in Spain which I can get some income from while eeking out the rest of my cash until I can start dipping into several private pensions at age 55. 

 

Or, I could look at making the move to Thailand sooner than planned. I like spending time in Samui, Phuket, Krabi, and also getting close to nature, jungle stays, fishing etc., but I'm not sure I could live in a jungle type area. I do like nightlife and (Thai) women, but I'm not a big fan of Patts (I don't knock anyone who is). 

I could possibly base myself in Bkk and go to those other places as and when. In Bkk I might even find work - I was in financial services for 30 years. 

 

I suppose my questions are, if I take the plunge, sell my house and get GBP275k, could I make a decent life in LOS, what would be the best option in terms of accommodation (buy condo, rent etc.), and could I stretch those funds out for another 5 years until I can dip into pensions? 

5 year to some private retirement pension payouts; and 50 years old that is Okay for stay based on retirement; and savings worth £275k, equalling around 10 million baht.

 

Sure, that's possible...????

 

I did the move when I was 56, and don't regret it – so far, 14-years after – my choice for residence, after checking several possibilities, were Samui.

 

As a hand rule, I will say that the 65k baht a month, as immigration think one shall have as income, fits quite well as base for a budget. Plus and minus will depend on personal life-style, and it's probably not that easy to get much below the 65k figure, and extremely easy to get above; and if you cannot manage to increase spending yourself, it's a piece of cake to find local help...????

 

I mention the 65k baht a month as for you long term planning, based on your pension possibilities, both private and eventually governmental monthly payouts.

 

Apart from a move always might cost some money – depending of how much one is moving, some brings a container load in – you should count minimum 800k baht a year for 5 years, or 4 million baht, which is around £110k, until you can begin your retirement pension plan. That would leave you with no more than around £150k in savings, which is equivalent to some 5 million baht.

 

Savings, both as a backdoor if you wish to return, or just leave LoS for another retirement destination, and as backup in case something happens – one shall always have access to some level of cash in a "rainy day" account when living in Thailand – you shall carefully consider where to place your remaining funds. A possibility might be in some interest paying, or dividend paying investment, and if that shall be off shore, or partial in Thai baht to avoid currency fluctuations.

 

It's easy to rent a place for long-term, and at least in the beginning – which could be a number of years – don't consider to buy anything. You can rent a fine home for 15,000 baht a month, plus/minus depending of size and location.

 

A major consideration is health insurance, the costs of insurance, and long-term planning for either continue increasing insurance fees, or having set aside enough for eventually the risk of being self insured. It's when you turn 60 or 70 years, you begin to feel the fees in a budget, and the don't decrease. It could also be a combination of reduced insurance coverage, at reduced fees – which might just be the same level as before – and topping up with money set aside.

 

Buying a home, i.e. condo or house – you can legally own a house, but not the land under the house, but the land you can lease for 30-years – can be down to simple math compared to renting. Depending of location rent can be up to 10% of the value, or a lot less. When renting between 10 years and 20 years you might well have paid for the home, but you have nothing. Long term planning can make the 10+ years home-expenses almost free; you might however still have some maintenance costs. Don't consider a home in Thailand as an investment, it can be difficult to sell it, and you might just get your "investment" back; that's why others and I say, rent in the beginning, and buy only, when you are sure that this it's a location you wish to settle in for long term.

 

Before you choose to much of a base, try to spend some time in the destinations of interest – i.e. Krabi,  Phuket, and Samui – and some time might well be some month, as there is a huge difference from what it's like during a two-week vacation, and being a more permanent resident. Also try Bangkok, if you fancy a big city, and consider looking for a job there.

 

It's easy to buy a motorbike, or a car, which also might make shuttle between areas easy with a few hours drive between Krabi, Phuket and Samui; the latter however a ferry ride on top. Think carefully before buying a second hand car, prices are quite high, compared to a new car. A smaller Toyota or like can be bought for 500k baht to 600k baht, 1st class insurance and tax is less than 20k baht a year.

 

When moving, think carefully about what you need to bring, as most stuff you can buy new here at affordable prices. Moving a 20-feet container could be around £5k to £7k – a number of big boxes or parcels might be equally expensive – and you will always be charged some little duty and v.a.t. in import fees, which could be another £1k or more on top. It's mainly stuff of sentimental value, or personal collections, that are worth considering the move. Also with different climate and life-style in general, one might not need the same stuff in a home.

 

When I moved, I brought as much as I could with me every I flew in, and finally had a 20' container shipped with the rest, because I had some sentimental stuff, personal collections, and musical gear and instruments, I wished to bring in. When moving a container I added what was worth moving in the empty space, as that would be free, but they still blew air-ballons up, to keep the stuff steady during shipping.

 

As I mentioned in the beginning, I did the move to Samui when I was in my mid fifties. I had checked Chiang Mai, Hua Hin, Pattaya, and Phuket, as other possibilities before my move. I'm not a (heavy) drinker – but I enjoy a glass of wine – and not into sitting in a bar; but I for sure enjoy nightlife, and that I found lots of here. The number of typical beer bars seem less on Samui compared to many other destinations, whilst beach bars and parties, trendy cafés and pubs, live-music restaurants, and disco-clubs are in numbers; and so are the ladies there, however countless numbers, both free lancers and "normal" ladies dreaming about alien company, or a foreign boyfriend.

 

I rented a bungalow – it was actually (very) cheap, when paying a year in advance – the first few years, but did plan for a house, which I completed five years later. With location in mind, the money I "invested" makes my rent free from about next year, compared to renting something similar. My budget, including a girlfriend, is around the 65k baht a month – I have little extra spending on top for a daughter, and school fees, not included in the 65k – however, if you often wish to use pure pay-and-play company, you should plan on a higher budget.

 

Feel free to ask, if you think I can help with answer to some questions. I wish you good luck with your plan...????

[NightSky]

Mortgage your current property and invest most back into several additional buy to let properties whilst keeping a lump sum. Rent them out and live off the proceeds.

 

 

[Blue Mango]

Thanks so much for all the advice.

 

Re the suggestions I keep my house in the UK and rent it out for income, sadly that's not really an option. My monthly mortgage payments are £1600, and I could only get around £1300 per month max in rental income. So I'd still need to find £300 per month to meet the mortgage payments.

It's the mortgage that's burning a hole in my savings, hence my thinking about selling up while the house prices in my area are still quite buoyant. The £275k I mentioned is the equity in the house based on the lowest valuation I've had. 

 

I'm quite encouraged by most of the comments here, and I feel moving to Thailand is a viable option. I have a daughter at university here and elderly parents, so those things will be a major factor in my decision making. 

 

And just to clarify - yes i'm single. 

 

Thanks again! 

[CharlieH]

As a single guy I wouldnt even entertain the idea of buying anything in Thailand, RENT ! that goes for companions too.

 

You can be free to wander and explore all the various types of location at ease and move on as it suits you. The rents here for nice places would probably surprise you.

 

Good luck and remember the Golden rule, never spend or invest any more than you would be prepared to walk away from.

 

 

[kevinmartyn]

I have lived on Thailand for several years and trust me it's no longer the land of smiles. In Thailand there is zero quality control and now very very expensive! Since 2000 I've seen my wealth reduced by 68#% and I'm a Brit. Stay in UK mate!????

[Ctkong]

14 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Rent your UK house out to generate an income.  Spain is not realistic until Brexit has been resolved nor is selling your house now a good idea. Do not burn your bridges.  Hang on to your UK property. 

Renting out the house means he will still have to pay the mortgage leaving not much of a balance amount to lead a reasonable life in Thailand.... 

Oops.. op’s self explaination in post #21 verify that. 

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Ctkong

[bkk6060]

15 hours ago, Blue Mango said:

I just turned 50 and I'm reaching a kind of 'do or die' point in my life. I can't get a job, I'm not succeeding at starting a business, and I have about 6 months of money left at the current burn rate.

So unfortunate but typical what I am hearing from Brits.

Many seem to have no future and no life.

Sad indeed, hope you can turn it around.

[Aussieroaming]

Keep the majority of your Pounds in the UK in a fixed term deposit until the Pound exchange rate hopefully rebounds. No need to exchange it all at the low exchange rates at present. Or keep the bricks and mortar and trust that rent and property price increases exceed the interest on your mortgage.

[sunnyboy2018]

6 hours ago, elgenon said:

Curious as to how you see house prices going after Brexit.

If Brexit occurs.  But basically the UK population is growing and house building is not growing sufficiently to meet the need  to meet demand and there are regional issues . I also remember the negative equity trap of 2003. I am just not sure, in these times of uncertainty,  that it is a good time to sell, especially in the OPs circumstances. 

[sunnyboy2018]

53 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

So unfortunate but typical what I am hearing from Brits.

Many seem to have no future and no life.

Sad indeed, hope you can turn it around.

 

58 minutes ago, Ctkong said:

Renting out the house means he will still have to pay the mortgage leaving not much of a balance amount to lead a reasonable life in Thailand.... 

Oops.. op’s self explaination in post #21 verify that. 

 

But he will have a place to live, a legal abode, and the property is likely to increase in value. If, after one or two years in Thailand, he can go ahead and sell. At his age he has no right to a retirement extension until 5 years.

[sunnyboy2018]

57 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

So unfortunate but typical what I am hearing from Brits.

Many seem to have no future and no life.

Sad indeed, hope you can turn it around.

Where else have you heard this?

[sunnyboy2018]

4 hours ago, onekoolguy said:

If you are a new landlord I really would not recommend this. Once you leave you are not going to want to get the phone calls and you will probably have times when you have to get on a plane and return to deal with rental matters.

Just sell it while it is in good condition and invest the money. Enjoy your early retirement!

An agency will source tenants  deal with maintenance and any other problems for 12%.