NYC police officer who killed Eric Garner should be fired, police judge rules

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Instead of firing the Officer, and punishing him and his family, for training he did not receive, How about they fire those responsible for the training?

Well perhaps but my suggestion is an example of what other issues might need addressing, not a factual account of the root cause.

 

As a general rule, in any large organisation where deaths or injuries occur, examination of causes routed further up the management tree are seldom examined.

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Do you think Pepper spray could have induced a asthmatic reaction?

Could a stun gun aggravate a heart condition?

Chomper Higgot, posted a "confused" reaction to the above reply.

I apologise for the confusion.  

 Eric Garner  was asthmatic and suffered of heart disease,

in the attempt to arrest him he complained that he could not breath, Previously to the attempted arrest he had lied that he was not illegally selling cigarettes, even though he had several previous arrests for illegally selling cigars. Do you think that the Officers might have thought he was lying again, or if you were them would you had said, Oh you can't breathe, sorry, and had let him go?

The coroner's report concluded that he died from a  asthmatic reaction.  Do you think that pepper spray , if they had used it , could induce an asthmatic reaction?

  (remember, when arguing, I never ask a question that I don't already know the answer) 

    Also the coroner concluded that he suffered from heart disease 

Do you think a stun gun could had killed him?

IMO the cops COMENTABLTY  refrained from using pepper spray or a stun gun from fat away , and instead placed themselves in physical danger  by trying to physically restrain

him.

 Can you now please remove the "confused" reaction.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Chomper Higgot, posted a "confused" reaction to the above reply.

I apologise for the confusion.  

 Eric Garner  was asthmatic and suffered of heart disease,

in the attempt to arrest him he complained that he could not breath, Previously to the attempted arrest he had lied that he was not illegally selling cigarettes, even though he had several previous arrests for illegally selling cigars. Do you think that the Officers might have thought he was lying again, or if you were them would you had said, Oh you can't breathe, sorry, and had let him go?

The coroner's report concluded that he died from a  asthmatic reaction.  Do you think that pepper spray , if they had used it , could induce an asthmatic reaction?

  (remember, when arguing, I never ask a question that I don't already know the answer) 

    Also the coroner concluded that he suffered from heart disease 

Do you think a stun gun could had killed him?

IMO the cops COMENTABLTY  refrained from using pepper spray or a stun gun from fat away , and instead placed themselves in physical danger  by trying to physically restrain

him.

 Can you now please remove the "confused" reaction.

Do you think the officers had his ‘Rap-Sheet’ to hand, along with his medical files?

 

The man is dead, I’m confused as to why hypothesising on other ways he might have been killed adds anything to that tragic fact.

[sirineou]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Well perhaps but my suggestion is an example of what other issues might need addressing, not a factual account of the root cause.

 

As a general rule, in any large organisation where deaths or injuries occur, examination of causes routed further up the management tree are seldom examined.

Well Not! "perhaps' ,my friend.

I will be honest with you. I really don't know if there was improper training,   But if you were at a job and you were not given proper training, if an accident occurred would you want to be held liable for someone else failure ? I know I wouldn't

   

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, sirineou said:

Well Not! "perhaps' ,my friend.

I will be honest with you. I really don't know if there was improper training,   But if you were at a job and you were not given proper training, if an accident occurred would you want to be held liable for someone else failure ? I know I wouldn't

   

I agree, and the apparent lack of examining these issues is what I find most disturbing about the treatment of this officer.

 

It is also an argument in favour of collecting data on killings by police officers, data enables systematic problems to be examined.

 

 

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, sirineou said:

MO the cops COMENTABLTY  refrained from using pepper spray or a stun gun from fat away , and instead placed themselves in physical danger  by trying to physically restrain

him.

 Can you now please remove the "confused" reaction.

I watched the video, thought the police were completely in the wrong.

They deliberately escalated a minor argument into a violent assault on someone who appeared to have broken no laws.

No confusion from me, the guy grabbing his neck should be in jail for manslaughter.

[4675636b596f75]

31 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Do you think Pepper spray could have induced a asthmatic reaction?

Could a stun gun aggravate a heart condition?

Yes to both questions.  It could have, but that wasn't certain.  The choke hold used by the criminal cop almost certainly choked and killed him.  

 

The choke hold used by the cop was banned according to NYPD policy.  He was trained not to use it.

[sunnyboy2018]

11 hours ago, Tug said:

Killing a guy for selling cigarettes is a (bit) harsh I support firing the cop he should consider himsielf very lucky indeed that’s all that’s happened to him

But there is a common belief on this forum, especially from our Scandinavian friend in Jomtien, that all drug dealers deserve to die. How wrong they are. Its staggering,  the impunity, with which American cops murder blacks on a regular basis.

[sirineou]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Do you think the officers had his ‘Rap-Sheet’ to hand, along with his medical files?

 

The man is dead, I’m confused as to why hypothesising on other ways he might have been killed adds anything to that tragic fact.

They might not had his Rap Sheet on hand, though I am sure he was a well known character in the neighborhood, and I am sure the cops knew of him, but I could be wrong.

He also said in the video "every time you see me you arrest me"  so obviously they had history.

But hey did know that he had just lied to them about the alleged crime, on the videotape, they said so to him, and told him that they had seen him illegally selling cigarettes.

 

 

I did not "Hypothesised" about other ways he could have being killed. I was reacting to a post where it was suggested that instead of physically restrained he should had being pepper sprayed or stun gunned. 

What do you think would had happened if they had Pepper sprayed him , before they attempted to physically restrain him, and he inhaled the pepper spray??

 

[4675636b596f75]

1 minute ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Its staggering,  the impunity, with which American cops murder blacks on a regular basis.

Staggering?  How many blacks are killed by police, per year?

How many non-blacks are killl by police, per year?

 

How about some facts.

[sirineou]

15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I agree, and the apparent lack of examining these issues is what I find most disturbing about the treatment of this officer.

 

It is also an argument in favour of collecting data on killings by police officers, data enables systematic problems to be examined.

 

 

More data never hurt anyone. 

[sunnyboy2018]

24 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Chomper Higgot, posted a "confused" reaction to the above reply.

I apologise for the confusion.  

 Eric Garner  was asthmatic and suffered of heart disease,

in the attempt to arrest him he complained that he could not breath, Previously to the attempted arrest he had lied that he was not illegally selling cigarettes, even though he had several previous arrests for illegally selling cigars. Do you think that the Officers might have thought he was lying again, or if you were them would you had said, Oh you can't breathe, sorry, and had let him go?

The coroner's report concluded that he died from a  asthmatic reaction.  Do you think that pepper spray , if they had used it , could induce an asthmatic reaction?

  (remember, when arguing, I never ask a question that I don't already know the answer) 

    Also the coroner concluded that he suffered from heart disease 

Do you think a stun gun could had killed him?

IMO the cops COMENTABLTY  refrained from using pepper spray or a stun gun from fat away , and instead placed themselves in physical danger  by trying to physically restrain

him.

 Can you now please remove the "confused" reaction.

COMENTABLTY is a confusing phrase. I dont know what it means. But clearly the cop is a murdering bully.

[sunnyboy2018]

21 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Well Not! "perhaps' ,my friend.

I will be honest with you. I really don't know if there was improper training,   But if you were at a job and you were not given proper training, if an accident occurred would you want to be held liable for someone else failure ? I know I wouldn't

   

Violent, murderous assault? Thats not a training issue. Dont do it. Thats a commonsense issue.

[sunnyboy2018]

38 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Well perhaps but my suggestion is an example of what other issues might need addressing, not a factual account of the root cause.

 

As a general rule, in any large organisation where deaths or injuries occur, examination of causes routed further up the management tree are seldom examined.

Hes sounds like a violent,  racist bully immune to training.

[sunnyboy2018]

22 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I watched the video, thought the police were completely in the wrong.

They deliberately escalated a minor argument into a violent assault on someone who appeared to have broken no laws.

No confusion from me, the guy grabbing his neck should be in jail for manslaughter.

American police have permission to kill black men without being punished. Its a tradition.

[sirineou]

9 minutes ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

Yes to both questions.  It could have, but that wasn't certain.  The choke hold used by the criminal cop almost certainly choked and killed him.  

 

The choke hold used by the cop was banned according to NYPD policy.  He was trained not to use it.

I am not sure of this , but pretty certain that it is true, please correct me if I am wrong,

But I think it it is police policy to use pepper spray and stun guns ar a last resort, 

IMO I think they did the compassionate thing by trying to physically restrain him.

My prediction. if he is fired, he will sue the NYPD for wrongful termination, he will win, and the Garner family will not be the only millionaires in this case.

In the meantime the NY tax payers, pay through the nose. I recently sold my NY home because I could not afford to retire in the place where I grew up!! My Property taxes were almost $1,000 a month!!!!!!! 

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Violent, murderous assault? Thats not a training issue. Dont do it. Thats a commonsense issue.

Well , I have gone over this with others, and not about to go over it with everyone who comes in this thread but had not bothered to read previous replies. IMO that's common sense.

Watch the video, and tell me what you would have done different.

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/original-cell-phone-video-of-eric-garner-s-arrest-65174597652 

 

[4675636b596f75]

12 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

American police have permission to kill black men without being punished. Its a tradition.

Now I have to put you on ignore.  Not because I don't like you, I don't know you.  It's because anyone who can state something so wrong, without apparent thought, ought to be silenced.  Happy trails ...

[sirineou]

15 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

COMENTABLTY is a confusing phrase. I dont know what it means. But clearly the cop is a murdering bully.

com·mend·a·ble

/kəˈmendəb(ə)l/

Learn to pronounce

adjective

 

1. deserving praise.

    

   It has being commented that they should have Tased him, or pepper spray him

   IMO it would have being the easy thing to do, and against procedure. Insted the placed themselves in physical dander by getting up close a personal, and tried to physically restrain him.

   Perhaps the chokehold was improper, but please tell me, how would you have taken such a big man down without putting your arm around his neck? would you have bumped against him,  would you have tickled him?? 

   IMO it was cometable that they tried to physically restrain him with danger to themselves.

   There might be bad cops, I don't thin this one is one of them .

   Or would you be happier if they pepper sprayed them , and would now be complaining why they did not try to first physically restrain him?

     I am not saying that police don't do anything wrong. But not in this case, That's why the DOJ refused to prosecute the case.

   I will ask the same question I asked others. and that no one has successfully answered yet, 

   After watching the video, if you were the cop, what would you have done different.

    

[4675636b596f75]

17 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Perhaps the chokehold was improper,

There is no "perhaps."  NYPD policy and training forbid its use.  

 

Full stop.  Case closed.  Go to prison for killing him.

 

Why the disconnect?

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

There is no "perhaps."  NYPD policy and training forbid its use.  

 

Full stop.  Case closed.  Go to prison for killing him.

 

Why the disconnect?

Notice how you take a sniped of a long post out of context in an futile attempt to deflect, while ignoring the salient  question of "if you were the cop, what would you have done different. " ???

The silent is deafening.

and the case is certainly not closed. If he is dismissed he will sue for wrongful termination , he will win, and as I said in a previous reply the Garner family would not be the only millionaires in this case. 

[Tug]

If I was thecop I wouldent kill a guy for selling single cigarettes trying to survive on the streets the cops screwed up they escalated the situation way out of proportion I’d can the lot of them for beeing dumb asses

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, Tug said:

If I was thecop I wouldent kill a guy for selling single cigarettes trying to survive on the streets the cops screwed up they escalated the situation way out of proportion I’d can the lot of them for beeing dumb asses

They did not kill him for selling cigarettes ,  He died for injury while resisting arrest, if he had not resisted arrest he would now be very much alive. You are confusing the reason why he was being arrested with the reason why he died.

[JamJar]

9 hours ago, daoyai said:

Obviously not killed for selling cigs.  died from preexisting health conditions exacerbated by fighting while resisting arrest, the "sleeper hold" used by the cop while attempting to subdue the guy was banned due to the danger to suspects. That is grounds for termination.   The fact that some people would say he. was killed for his petty crime says more about them than it does about this incident or the state of policing in the U.S.  .... all lives matter. .... when it comes to police, I learned long ago, comply or die.

 

Someone stating that they can't breathe doesn't sound as if they are fighting. Unless you mean fighting for breath.

Some people have already lost all of their humanity.

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, JamJar said:

 

Someone stating that they can't breathe doesn't sound as if they are fighting. Unless you mean fighting for breath.

Some people have already lost all of their humanity.

Link to video, make up your own mind if he was resisting arrest or not.

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/original-cell-phone-video-of-eric-garner-s-arrest-65174597652

[Tug]

24 minutes ago, sirineou said:

They did not kill him for selling cigarettes ,  He died for injury while resisting arrest, if he had not resisted arrest he would now be very much alive. You are confusing the reason why he was being arrested with the reason why he died.

What part of escalating the situation way beyond what was nessary don’t you understand?the cops skrewed this one up imo broad daylight lots of people around very minor offense grossly overreacting can the lot of them that should not be tolerated

[JamJar]

20 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Link to video, make up your own mind if he was resisting arrest or not.

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/original-cell-phone-video-of-eric-garner-s-arrest-65174597652

 

He was already on the ground. There were no flailing fists. They just go too far. They don't care about the person, at all. 

[sirineou]

Just now, Tug said:

What part of escalating the situation way beyond what was nessary don’t you understand?the cops skrewed this one up imo broad daylight lots of people around very minor offense grossly overreacting can the lot of them that should not be tolerated

 once they attempted to arrest him for selling illegal cigarettes , which he had done repeatedly (not a firs offender), as you said in "imo broad daylight lots of people around "

and he resisted ,What do you suggest they did??

Do you suggest they said, Ohh well, he dont want to come with us, let's go arees someone else who would want to come.

   or

Oh no!! he is too big, let's go and arrest someone else smaller.

and what do you think would happen to them if they went back to the police station and their supervisor ask them why did they not arrest the suspect. Do you think they would say he was too big, and did not want to come,

  can you please assign as to the small and willing suspect cases?

Come on people let's get serious.

 

[Tug]

How about tazing him look I know from personal experience not to be stupid to cops I’ve had the crap beat out of me whim I was young and dumb that asaid you don’t kill a guy for selling cigarettes no more no less no excuses period the cops skrewed up 

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, JamJar said:

 

He was already on the ground. There were no flailing fists. They just go too far. They don't care about the person, at all. 

Yes he was on the ground, they cuffed him, he had an asthmatic attack most likely caused by the adrenaline of the situation rather than the choke hold. They turned him over to make him more comfortable and called an ambulance. 

"Stress is a common asthma trigger. An asthma trigger is anything that brings on asthma symptoms. When you have stress and asthma, you might feel short of breath, anxious, and even panicked. Stress may cause your asthma symptoms to worsen and cause you to feel frightened. "

https://www.webmd.com/asthma/guide/stress-asthma#1