'Many killed' in shooting at Walmart in El Paso; suspect in custody

[kingdong]

6 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

You would think that a lot of these Europeans and Australians would at least understand how diverse America really is. Even some Americans I don’t think truly understand that.

and europe isn,t?

[mogandave]

History will help you......
 
·  The idea of throwing up a border wall to prevent incomers is pretty old and has never worked very well.
 
History is adorned with famous walls, from the Sumerian Wall of Mardu 4,000 years ago onward, and the moments their defensive pretensions collapsed. The ruins today remind us that using a wall to prevent incursions is the oldest and weakest idea in the arsenal of the state—one reason why almost nobody has tried to make them work for the last thousand years.
 
·  It is lost to history whether Hadrian, Qin Shi Huang or Nikita Khrushchev ever uttered, “I will build a wall.”
 
But build they did, and what happened? The history of walls — to keep people out or in — is also the history of people managing to get around, over and under them. Some come tumbling down.
 
·  The classic example is the Great Wall of China. Imposing and remarkably durable, yes, yet it didn’t block various nomadic tribes from the north. History is full of examples of engineering thwarted by goal-oriented rank amateurs.
 
Throughout history, no wall has offered 100 percent impermeability. No matter how sturdy or big the wall, humans will figure out ingenious ways to get through, under, or over it. Somebody tell the president.

It won’t work because it won’t stop 100%? I would not expect it to stop 100%.


So if gun control won’t stop 100% of shootings we should not pursue it, correct? Same thinking, yes?

[Mel52]

Even I agree that if we could get rid of all the guns there would be a lot fewer tragedies like this but how? How is it possible to get rid of all the guns out there now? You can’t at least not in this generation anyway it would probably take at least a century to get rid of all the guns so if we’re going to discuss it let’s at least get real about it. But I’m done discussing the politics of a national tragedy like I said.

 

 

[Mel52]

It won’t work because it won’t stop 100%? I would not expect it to stop 100%.


So if gun control won’t stop 100% of shootings we should not pursue it, correct? Same thinking, yes?

Yeah okay well maybe they should be thinking of actual realistic ways of at least trying to wipe out the gun violence completely now instead of these pipe dreams.

[balo]

18 minutes ago, mogandave said:

I visit the the US several times a year and I never feel like looking over my shoulder.

Where do you go in the US?

I read the news, so I can compare . 

 

I went to Vegas a year before the massacre on the Strip where 56 people was shot down by another maniac with guns. It's all gun related crimes in the US. 

If you feel safe in the US, good for you. As a tourist I will be very careful about which area to visit, unlike in Thailand where I can walk most places at night. 

 

[mogandave]

Yeah okay well maybe they should be thinking of actual realistic ways of at least trying to wipe out the gun violence completely now instead of these pipe dreams.

They being who?
Top-down solutions generally don’t work for bottom-up problems.

Eliminating guns will not reduce the number of nut-sacks wanting to kill people.

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

Yeah okay well maybe they should be thinking of actual realistic ways of at least trying to wipe out the gun violence completely now instead of these pipe dreams.

Sure.

Here's an example.

The democratic party led house of representatives has already passed a comprehensive BACKGROUND CHECK bill for gun ownership.

 

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/27/house-passes-bill-to-require-universal-background-checks-on-gun-sales-1193043

 

Quote

House passes most sweeping gun control legislation in decades

 

They sent it to the senate.

Republican senate leader Mitch McConnell has BURIED the bill. Won't even consider it. (I won't refer to his new well deserved nickname.)

I just heard the Republican current occupant of the white house will probably propose beefing up BACKGROUND CHECKS in his speech tonight.

But only if it's tied to his white nationalist inspired immigration proposals.

You talk about how we aren't supposed to talk about POLITICS.

I don't get it. That's irrational. It's like talking about food service without talking about COOKING (unless you're serving only RAW foods).

Edited August 5, 2019 by Jingthing

[BritManToo]

40 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Gun control is a quick way and far faster than your suggestions, but the Repubs and NRA veto it!! Go figure!

How many people would die while you're trying to take away the guns?

I'm thinking more than are killed in the random shootings.

Or do you think everyone will peacefully hand over their guns, if you ask them nicely?

Edited August 5, 2019 by BritManToo

[Mel52]

and europe isn,t?

Point is that the diversity in America is the root of all the violence and it always has been since the beginning of time throughout the world. Different people have been killing each other simply because they are different people throughout the world for centuries and America is extremely diverse and extremely divided currently. We’re more divided now than we’ve ever been since the civil war so that’s the cause of the violence now we just have to figure out realistically what do we do about it. If they tried to confiscate all guns now and if they stopped selling all guns now for a while you would be seeing A HELL OF A LOT more violence for years to come and possibly another civil war for real. The point is that we have to stop the violence not make it worse by imposing our will on everyone.

[mogandave]

I read the news, so I can compare . 
 
I went to Vegas a year before the massacre on the Strip where 56 people was shot down by another maniac with guns. It's all gun related crimes in the US. 

If you feel safe in the US, good for you. As a tourist I will be very careful about which area to visit, unlike in Thailand where I can walk most places at night. 

 

You felt unsafe in Vegas? I lived there for about a year, never found myself look over my shoulder, unless it was at the arm candy...

I feel safer in Thailand than in a lot of places in the US, but certainly not most.

[Mel52]

How many people would die while you're trying to take away the guns?
I'm thinking more than are killed in the random shootings.
Or do you think everyone will peacefully hand over their guns, if you ask them nicely?

See now someone finally brings up a smart point. And this is why I don’t like discussing the politics of it because it’s EXTREMELY COMPLICATED and no one has all the answers to it.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Mel52 said:

See now someone finally brings up a smart point. And this is why I don’t like discussing the politics of it because it’s EXTREMELY COMPLICATED and no one has all the answers to it.

I don't get your point. 

If you're talking about policy changes, that always must involve politics.

 

[Mel52]

Point is that the diversity in America is the root of all the violence and it always has been since the beginning of time throughout the world. Different people have been killing each other simply because they are different people throughout the world for centuries and America is extremely diverse and extremely divided currently. We’re more divided now than we’ve ever been since the civil war so that’s the cause of the violence now we just have to figure out realistically what do we do about it. If they tried to confiscate all guns now and if they stopped selling all guns now for a while you would be seeing A HELL OF A LOT more violence for years to come and possibly another civil war for real. The point is that we have to stop the violence not make it worse by imposing our will on everyone.

This is the same argument by the way that people made against our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan don’t make it worse by imposing our will on the world.

[MaxYakov]

20 minutes ago, kingdong said:

perhaps walmart dosen,t want guns being left unattended in cars parked outside unattended.

I've had time to consider turning Texas Walmart/Target stores into gun-free zones and what we know is more likely is to happen in those types of zones. And armed guard at these stores would be the first target to go down and/or the shooter would find a way into the store via an unguarded entrance.

 

Firearms locked up in car trunks ... what about vehicles without trunks? I installed a relatively large fire-resistant safe in my minivan for storing my Glock and other valuables. Maybe people should leave their firearms at home and locked up in gun safes. On the other hand, what about self defense when out and about? I was very comfortable with the safe installed in my vehicle as a viable tradeoff that definitely was smash-and-grab resistant.

[xylophone]

41 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

Exactly thank you

Plenty out there as regards Trump vowing to veto any gun control legislation, and marcusarelus needs to learn to read and understand before commenting.........that is the reason I have him on ignore.

 

"Trump Vows to Veto Latest Gun Control Legislation"

 

"Republicans have blocked every attempt for reform.

Not only the Potus but McConnell and the rest has blood on their  hands also".

 

Sirineou posted: "If you don't know what the left has attempted to do only to be blocked by the republicans, Nothing I can say will help you".

 

Also see post #397 by Jingthing

Edited August 5, 2019 by xylophone

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, xylophone said:

Plenty out there as regards Trump vowing to veto any gun control legislation, and marcusarelus needs to learn to read and understand before commenting.........that is the reason I have him on ignore.

 

"Trump Vows to Veto Latest Gun Control Legislation"

 

"Republicans have blocked every attempt for reform.

Not only the Potus but McConnell and the rest has blood on their  hands also".

 

Sirineou posted: "If you don't know what the left has attempted to do only to be blocked by the republicans, Nothing I can say will help you".

Exactly!

A great example:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/27/house-passes-bill-to-require-universal-background-checks-on-gun-sales-1193043

Killed by the REPUBLICAN senate. 

[CharlieH]

Personal attack removed, KEEP IT CIVIL please.

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

 

 

[Mel52]

See now someone finally brings up a smart point. And this is why I don’t like discussing the politics of it because it’s EXTREMELY COMPLICATED and no one has all the answers to it.

Except for jingthing lol [emoji23]. But it’s a major tragedy and there’s nothing funny about it which is another reason why I don’t like discussing the politics of it.

[mogandave]

Well Beto is sure making hay with it, blaming Trump & Fox News, typical leftist.

 

 

I was surprised he didn’t point out that mass shootings tripled during the Obama Administration.

 

I wonder why he didn’t mention the killer in Dayton...

[xylophone]

35 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

It won’t work because it won’t stop 100%? I would not expect it to stop 100%.


So if gun control won’t stop 100% of shootings we should not pursue it, correct? Same thinking, yes?
 

 

Putting measures in place to save the lives of innocents and children is a far call from a wall or no wall argument.

[Mel52]

I don't get your point. 
If you're talking about policy changes, that always must involve politics.
 

Yes I know you don’t get the point but this is about what happened not politics that’s why I’m done.

[marcusarelus]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Sure.

Here's an example.

The democratic party led house of representatives has already passed a comprehensive BACKGROUND CHECK bill for gun ownership.

 

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/27/house-passes-bill-to-require-universal-background-checks-on-gun-sales-1193043

 

 

They sent it to the senate.

Republican senate leader Mitch McConnell has BURIED the bill. Won't even consider it. (I won't refer to his new well deserved nickname.)

I just heard the Republican current occupant of the white house will probably propose beefing up BACKGROUND CHECKS in his speech tonight.

But only if it's tied to his white nationalist inspired immigration proposals.

You talk about how we aren't supposed to talk about POLITICS.

I don't get it. That's irrational. It's like talking about food service without talking about COOKING (unless you're serving only RAW foods).

Timing and sales.  Now is the time before the election to send the bill from the house to the senate and hype it over and over.  CNN will cover anything Democratic.  I'm 100% in favor of gun control.  Doesn't effect me.  I have antique black powder weapons one shot for hunting and a civil war handgun to protect the house.  Stop all the sales of weapons in the USA right now.  I'd vote for it.  

Edited August 5, 2019 by marcusarelus

[mogandave]

Putting measures in place to save the lives of innocents and children is a far call from a wall or no wall argument.

It’s the same reasoning though. You don’t want the wall because it won’t stop 100%, but you’d take the guns from every law abiding citizen to reduce shootings by 5%.

That sum it up?

[mogandave]

Putting measures in place to save the lives of innocents and children is a far call from a wall or no wall argument.

What measures would you put in place?

[Mel52]

They being who?
Top-down solutions generally don’t work for bottom-up problems.

Eliminating guns will not reduce the number of nut-sacks wanting to kill people.

Who, the government law enforcement who do you think? And yes I get what you’re saying but I’m thinking it would be better if the government and law enforcement would actually do something realistic to try and stop the gun violence. I really mean something realistic I’m not even getting into the politics of it.

[mogandave]

Who, the government law enforcement who do you think? And yes I get what you’re saying but I’m thinking it would be better if the government and law enforcement would actually do something realistic to try and stop the gun violence. I really mean something realistic I’m not even getting into the politics of it.

Okay, what would you have them do?

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Well Beto is sure making hay with it, blaming Trump & Fox News, typical leftist.

 

 

I was surprised he didn’t point out that mass shootings tripled during the Obama Administration.

 

I wonder why he didn’t mention the killer in Dayton...

But..... but.... but....

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

Except for jingthing lol . But it’s a major tragedy and there’s nothing funny about it which is another reason why I don’t like discussing the politics of it.

That's you saying that, not me.
Desist with that noise.

I never said I had all the answers.

I am saying to approach real solutions without getting into politics is Pollyanna-ish, nothing to do with the REAL WORLD. 

[mogandave]

But..... but.... but....

Yeah, but but but Trump right?

Mass shootings tripled during the Obama Administration, the Dayton shooter is a lefty, but it all Trumps fault.

We get it...

[Mel52]

Okay, what would you have them do?

Damn it dude that’s my whole point I don’t know and neither does anyone else on this chat room! Including you and me. It’s just a real tragedy and this stuff needs to stop somehow right now the most common sense answer looks like more security especially in crowded places right now in the short term. Long term is going to get very political and very complicated! I’m just being realistic in my thinking I’m not on any side politically I’m really not. Everyone always wants to use these tragedies to further an agenda or make a point and I just think it’s all sick I really honestly do and I’m just as sick of it happening as anyone else.