Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

If you do pay up for a LD you often have 3 ft of wood between you, the bar! Might as well be in an overpriced GGB, with AC and 'entertainment'.... and a bog!

Yes.  For those tin roof beer bar complexes, their days are numbered.  Most are sitting on prime real estate, with wasted strata. (air space)

 

If their prices matched their level of facility, they would probably be more busy, but many of them are charging the same as nicer places, so have fallen out of favor. 

 

I recently strolled through Soi Made in Thailand, and it was dead, and that's a big plot of land.  

[Olmate]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

As said before, most likely a case of greedy Thai landlords pushing the rents up so high over time that the consumers are no longer prepared to pay the prices the bar have to charge, just to remain viable. 

 

These bars have no a/c, have terrible music, are dusty, get the street traffic noise, have no toilet, have to charge the same as nice places.  All they may have is the odd pretty girl, and then they want a 1000 baht bar fine.  

 

The rents charged for these basic bars are ridiculous, and the landlords have finally pushed the market over breaking point.

 

It's just not working anymore, and whilst the strong baht may play a role, to a degree, it's not the only issue killing these once popular complexes. 

Who operates the bars, mostly ferang I suspect.Are they to blame for letting the boring scene that it’s become prevail. I had a walk down Soi 6 yesterday arvo, what a hole. 

Little wonder there is no future for them, cant blame the staff either!

[kinyara]

6 hours ago, Leaver said:

Yes.  For those tin roof beer bar complexes, their days are numbered.  Most are sitting on prime real estate, with wasted strata. (air space)

 

If their prices matched their level of facility, they would probably be more busy, but many of them are charging the same as nicer places, so have fallen out of favor. 

 

I recently strolled through Soi Made in Thailand, and it was dead, and that's a big plot of land.  

Prime Real Estate for who?  You seem to be saying pretty regularly that hotels are empty because of Chinese buying up condos and Air bnb'ing it. Therefore  I presume you're not expecting more international chains like Hard Rock, Marriot, Sheraton, Movenpick or locals like the Kantary Group to pay top dollar in a fading, dying, past its sell by resort only populated by zero baht Chinese and low budget Indians. 

 

What is this prime Real Estate that you speak of, in a town of empty condos, bordering terrible roadworks, an empty beach and polluted water. You've got me genuinely confused with your own logic. 

[Leaver]

11 hours ago, Olmate said:

Who operates the bars, mostly ferang I suspect.Are they to blame for letting the boring scene that it’s become prevail. I had a walk down Soi 6 yesterday arvo, what a hole. 

Little wonder there is no future for them, cant blame the staff either!

You can't blame farang owners for the complete demise of the beer bars. 

 

Thai landlords charging thousands of baht rent per month, for a pile of bricks under a tin roof, was only going to last as long as pretty hookers were in these bars. 

 

A lot of these girls freelance off apps now, so, that just leaves the old girls in the bar, looking bored, and wondering what happened to all the easy farang money of yesteryear.

 

Many of these bars that are for sale have the owners family running them, not farang.  They keep the lights on to make it look like a walk in walk out business to buy, but the dreamers of the past are few and far between now. 

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, Leaver said:

I recently strolled through Soi Made in Thailand, and it was dead, and that's a big plot of land.  

Yes I did a crawl around there too last week. My complaints really were, over-focused on pool, overpriced LDs, too many katoeys, bottled beer higher priced than warranted, and girls with faces stuck in their phones. Rubbish!

[Leaver]

6 hours ago, kinyara said:

Prime Real Estate for who? 

Developers.

 

6 hours ago, kinyara said:

You seem to be saying pretty regularly that hotels are empty because of Chinese buying up condos and Air bnb'ing it.

 

Some buy the condo, but most lease the condo.  They lease it for 1 year on the cheap monthly rate, then AirBnB it for the more expensive daily rate.  They pay a Thai cleaner at each check out, probably only 300 baht, and it's ready for the next guest.  The Chinese leasee keeps the difference.  Yes, illegal, but not enforced.

 

Most of the time the Chinese lease holder isn't even in Thailand.  They are back in China making money out of being the middleman. 

 

6 hours ago, kinyara said:

What is this prime Real Estate that you speak of, in a town of empty condos, bordering terrible roadworks, an empty beach and polluted water. You've got me genuinely confused with your own logic. 

 

Two words for you, "THE BASE."  Probably the busiest "hotel" in Central Pattaya.  It's certainly not empty. Hundreds of Chinese checking in and checking out, every day, at all hours.

 

All the while, hotels are bleeding out.

 

The prime real estate I speak of are old tin roof ground floor beer bars.  No customers in them, and no staff inviting enough to go in an have a drink with. 

 

Maybe the Sinsiri Group will buy one of these old run down beer bars and build another "condotel." 

 

6 hours ago, kinyara said:

I presume you're not expecting more international chains like Hard Rock, Marriot, Sheraton, Movenpick or locals like the Kantary Group to pay top dollar in a fading, dying, past its sell by resort only populated by zero baht Chinese and low budget Indians. 

 

They may know something we don't know, but tell me, if one of these groups started a new project in Pattaya, would YOU buy shares in it.  No, I didn't think so.   

[TaaSaparot]

17 hours ago, Leaver said:

I remember the times when all those brick bars under the tin roofs were jammed.  

You must be speaking of pre-2000 then?

[TaaSaparot]

14 hours ago, Leaver said:

I recently strolled through Soi Made in Thailand, and it was dead, and that's a big plot of land.  

Yet, more bars keeping opening .... funny that, if they are all dead?

[Leaver]

6 hours ago, TaaSaparot said:

You must be speaking of pre-2000 then?

No, not that far back. 

[Leaver]

6 hours ago, TaaSaparot said:

Yet, more bars keeping opening .... funny that, if they are all dead?

Where are these bars opening that you say?

 

Perhaps you mean, bars turning over.

 

You posted it, so I will use it as an example.  So, PJ's has been given away to Nick, and he has said he is changing the name.  Do you declare this is a "new opening" or just a management and name change? 

[fforest1]

15 hours ago, kinyara said:

Prime Real Estate for who?  You seem to be saying pretty regularly that hotels are empty because of Chinese buying up condos and Air bnb'ing it. Therefore  I presume you're not expecting more international chains like Hard Rock, Marriot, Sheraton, Movenpick or locals like the Kantary Group to pay top dollar in a fading, dying, past its sell by resort only populated by zero baht Chinese and low budget Indians. 

 

What is this prime Real Estate that you speak of, in a town of empty condos, bordering terrible roadworks, an empty beach and polluted water. You've got me genuinely confused with your own logic. 

You guys are not thinking big enough or far enough ahead....You only need look to Burma,Laos,Cambodia is see what might/could/will happen here...I am talking about Casinos.....

 

I have zero faith that the current government will stick to Buddhist non gamboling principles..

 

Gamboling has a very corrupting influence and would be a devastating blow to Thailand but it sure as hell makes real estate prices go crazy......The owners of all that near beach land don't want to spend jack on making it better in hopes of the big big double snake eyes casino pay day some day.....

 

Sihanoukville part 2 need I say more.....I despise gamboling but the trend in surrounding countries is not to be underestimated...The owners of that run down near beach property might not be as stupid as you think....

Edited February 1, 2020 by fforest1

[CGW]

1 hour ago, fforest1 said:

Gamboling has a very corrupting influence and would be a devastating blow to Thailand but it sure as hell makes real estate prices go crazy......The owners of all that near beach land don't want to spend jack on making it better in hopes of the big big double snake eyes casino pay day some day.....

Around 20 years ago Bangkokians would spend there weekend retreat looking for land around the Ambassador hotel area as it was rumoured that it would be opening a casino, they paid top dollar for the land, 20 years later, they are still waiting for the casino to open, not so sure one ever will.

[TaaSaparot]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

No, not that far back. 

Oh well, you missed its heyday then.

 

[TaaSaparot]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

Where are these bars opening that you say?

 

Perhaps you mean, bars turning over.

 

You posted it, so I will use it as an example.  So, PJ's has been given away to Nick, and he has said he is changing the name.  Do you declare this is a "new opening" or just a management and name change? 

PJ's is not on Soi Made in Thailand.

 

And no, I am not talking about bars turning over.

[TaaSaparot]

Retox Game On ..

 

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by TaaSaparot

[Leaver]

19 minutes ago, TaaSaparot said:

PJ's is not on Soi Made in Thailand.

 

And no, I am not talking about bars turning over.

Ok.  So, where are these NEW bar openings?

[Leaver]

20 minutes ago, TaaSaparot said:

Retox Game On ..

 

 

 

BOOM!!!!

 

That's a big domino to fall. 

[TaaSaparot]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

 

BOOM!!!!

 

That's a big domino to fall. 

Fall ..... its a busy bar that has been put up for sale.

 

Take the blinkers off for once!!!

[TaaSaparot]

6 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Ok.  So, where are these NEW bar openings?

Erm ... Soi Made in Thailand

[kinyara]

Wasn't long ago Retox were trumpeting themselves as some sort of amazing Pattaya success story looking for investors to back expansion to Bangkok and other Asian cities. Since then they've offloaded Robin Hood, closed Retox Lengkee and are now looking to sell their "flagship" venue. I think that tells its own story. I actually thought they owned that premises but it appears all you're getting for 12.5m is a bit of stock. Could be the most profitable beers they've ever sold. 

[Leaver]

Just now, TaaSaparot said:

Fall ..... its a busy bar that has been put up for sale.

 

Take the blinkers off for once!!!

Have you been in there lately?

 

These guys are smart, trying to cash out early.

 

There custom has been down in recent times, through no fault of their own mind you.  Their service and products remained a high standard, despite custom dropping off a cliff. 

 

I frequent this bar.  It's part of why I started this thread, and I could see the writing on the wall for it.  I know staff there. 

 

I hope it remains in operation.

 

 

[Leaver]

10 minutes ago, TaaSaparot said:

Erm ... Soi Made in Thailand

Erm, so, they are building new bars in Soi Made in Thailand, or developing old bars?

 

Remember, 1 closure + 1 one opening = Zero net growth for bar openings. 

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Leaver

[kinyara]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

BOOM!!!!

 

That's a big domino to fall. 

For once, just once, I absolutely agree with you. ????. Why has their confidence in their winning formula that no other bars could offer and expansion plans evaporated in the last 12 months?  I always knew this would happen. 

[TaaSaparot]

5 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I frequent this bar.  It's part of why I started this thread, and I could see the writing on the wall for it.  I know staff there. 

Yeah, right ????

[TaaSaparot]

14 minutes ago, kinyara said:

Wasn't long ago Retox were trumpeting themselves as some sort of amazing Pattaya success story looking for investors to back expansion to Bangkok and other Asian cities. Since then they've offloaded Robin Hood, closed Retox Lengkee and are now looking to sell their "flagship" venue. I think that tells its own story. I actually thought they owned that premises but it appears all you're getting for 12.5m is a bit of stock. Could be the most profitable beers they've ever sold. 

 

Not been the same since Simon Peatfield left.

 

What about Retox Outback? ... always seems busy when I pass.

[Leaver]

10 minutes ago, kinyara said:

Wasn't long ago Retox were trumpeting themselves as some sort of amazing Pattaya success story looking for investors to back expansion to Bangkok and other Asian cities. Since then they've offloaded Robin Hood, closed Retox Lengkee and are now looking to sell their "flagship" venue. I think that tells its own story. I actually thought they owned that premises but it appears all you're getting for 12.5m is a bit of stock. Could be the most profitable beers they've ever sold. 

Just 12 months ago the place was jammed most nights sport was on, for all nationalities, from all around the globe.

 

In recent times, a big lack of customers, and once again, through no fault of their own, as their standards have remained high there.

 

I remember seeing signs looking for investors in the Retox Group, similar to The Nightwish Group. 

 

It will be interesting to see how long they remain open, whilst trying to find a buyer.  I can only imagine their monthly expenses.  They may close up shop and walk out after Songkran. 

[Leaver]

15 minutes ago, kinyara said:

I always knew this would happen.

Yet, you have ridiculed my OP title, and my posts, and personally attacked me, but, I hold no malice.

 

Contrary to belief, I am not a dooms day poster.  I know what I see, and I know who I speak to. 

 

They laughed at the guys that predicted the GFC.

 

We could very well be looking at the Pattaya Financial Crisis, more now so with the virus.

 

What big domino would have to fall for people to take notice?

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Leaver

[Leaver]

10 minutes ago, TaaSaparot said:

always seems busy when I pass.

Do you "pass" or go inside, and regularly????  There's a BIG difference. 

[kinyara]

1 hour ago, TaaSaparot said:

 

Not been the same since Simon Peatfield left.

 

What about Retox Outback? ... always seems busy when I pass.

Can't imagine there is much money to be made flipping that one, I think they are in partnership and I would have thought the overheads are manageable in that location. 

[Leaver]

32 minutes ago, TaaSaparot said:

Yeah, right ????

Ahhh, yeah, too right.  Unlike yourself, I don't "pass" by, I actually go inside, and regularly.  ????