Points system on driving licenses will reduce accidents in Thailand

[AloisAmrein]

Traffic in Thailand is among the deadlist in the world. Each day 71 people die on Thai roads. The point system will not change much, because half of the drivers have no licence. Even if enforced. Corruption still exists also with the point system. So little or nothing will change.

[Airbagwill]

5 hours ago, AloisAmrein said:

Traffic in Thailand is among the deadlist in the world. Each day 71 people die on Thai roads. The point system will not change much, because half of the drivers have no licence. Even if enforced. Corruption still exists also with the point system. So little or nothing will change.

Yes another knee-jerk observation.

[pattayadgw]

I would like to hear how the points system is going to reduce accidents?  How about trying 'policing the roads' as other countries do!!

[Airbagwill]

6 minutes ago, pattayadgw said:

I would like to hear how the points system is going to reduce accidents?  How about trying 'policing the roads' as other countries do!!

again these comments indicate a lack of understanding of the issues.

It is extremely unlikely that either of your suggestions would apply to Thailand and you don't even seem to realise they are inextricably linked.

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

again these comments indicate a lack of understanding of the issues.

It is extremely unlikely that either of your suggestions would apply to Thailand and you don't even seem to realise they are inextricably linked.

2 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Yes another knee-jerk observation.

I know you have a deep understanding of the topic and are very knowledgeable about what needs to be done to greatly improve road traffic safety in Thailand, but is it necessary to be so condescending to other posters. Not everyone is as well informed as you about the subject at hand, but surely they still have a right to comment on the problem. If you think they are talking rubbish or are very misinformed, why not just skip over their posts and just share your knowledge and enter into dialogue with other posters who appear to have a better understanding of the problem. Or are we only allowed to comment on subject matter on which we have a deep understanding. If that were the case Thai Visa would close down in the blink of an eye.

 

BTW, please can you point me to one of your more detailed posts in which you elaborate on what needs to be done as I really am interested in what you have to say.  

[Assurancetourix]

I have some ideas to reduce the number of accidents and deaths on thai roads;

for example the speed limit in all towns in Thailand is 80 km/h ;

it's really too much;

At 50 km/h you need almost 42 meters to stop on dry ground and much more on wet ground so many downtown in Europe have a speed limit at 30 km/h;

even at 30 km/h you need 28 meters to stop .

 

Lille is a big city in the north of France ;

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lille

 

" It will now lift the foot if you drive in Lille. Starting this Monday, the city sets up the generalization of zone 30 in (almost) all streets. Every Monday, until 21 October, a new part of the town will go from 50 to 30 km / h. According to La Voix du Nord, 88% of Lille's streets will be affected by this measure. The goal: to avoid accidents, to reduce pollution, to reduce noise pollution and to encourage people in Lille to turn to soft mobility and public transport. "

 

https://www.20minutes.fr/lille/2585347-20190819-lille-vitesse-maximale-ville-passe-50-30-kmh

[survivalblue]

This doesn't reduce anything but the hope for safety ever occurring.

[Airbagwill]

5 hours ago, GarryP said:

Not everyone is as well informed as you about the subject at hand, but surely they still have a right to comment on the problem

Quite frankly no.

Firstly is what is the value of a comment made from the basis of ignorance? I would suggest very little, in fact it probably has a negative effect as I've pointed out before. There is a fallacy that "everyone is entitled to an opinion" that I notice is commonly held by those without and opinion. They voice comments that actually don't qualify as opinion at all - Opinion is based on evidence logic and reason - as they have no knowledge of any of this it hardly qualifies as opinion does it?

 

Secondly as I've pointed out these comments are a symptom in themselves of the ignorance that surrounds the general publics awareness of road safety issues. This ignorance spreads right through Thai society, expats and those in authority as well and until people grasp the reality then no progress will be made

 

Just because I point out the fallacies and failings of someone's post it does not mean I'm being condescending either, on the contrary it says more about the person who makes an ill-informed post and then objects to having this pointed out.

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, Victornoir said:

Thailand is still a country where life is good.

...and cheap apparently. Do you find the road casualties in Thailand OK, then?

[Airbagwill]

3 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

I have some ideas to reduce the number of accidents and deaths on thai roads;

for example the speed limit in all towns in Thailand is 80 km/h ;

it's really too much;

At 50 km/h you need almost 42 meters to stop on dry ground and much more on wet ground so many downtown in Europe have a speed limit at 30 km/h;

even at 30 km/h you need 28 meters to stop .

 

Lille is a big city in the north of France ;

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lille

 

" It will now lift the foot if you drive in Lille. Starting this Monday, the city sets up the generalization of zone 30 in (almost) all streets. Every Monday, until 21 October, a new part of the town will go from 50 to 30 km / h. According to La Voix du Nord, 88% of Lille's streets will be affected by this measure. The goal: to avoid accidents, to reduce pollution, to reduce noise pollution and to encourage people in Lille to turn to soft mobility and public transport. "

 

https://www.20minutes.fr/lille/2585347-20190819-lille-vitesse-maximale-ville-passe-50-30-kmh

"or example the speed limit in all towns in Thailand is 80 km/h"

incorrect, they are as follows....

• Town and city: 60 km/h.
• Open Roads: 90 km/h.
• Motorways: 120 km/h.

 

furthermore many people, in particular expats are not aware that expressways have an 80km/h limit and many of the roads they consider to be "motorways" are not. At present there is a HIGHWAY network of about 66,000 km of an overall total of 380,000. Of this Motorways represent less than 200 km. There are plans to expand this ten-fold but they are but plans - in the mean time the major industrial regions rely on deadly unsafe highways.

 

You may have noticed too the introduction, albeit rather haphazardly, of the French-style village speed limits - especially round schools and temples.

the problem with this as well as any other speed limits is that they have to be researched first and then clearly marked out on the roads bot in signs and road markings. As the Thai roads are so poorly designed a uniform and constant system is yet to be introduced and will be almost impossible to be enforced without major road reconstruction.

 

 

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

Quite frankly no.

Firstly is what is the value of a comment made from the basis of ignorance? I would suggest very little, in fact it probably has a negative effect as I've pointed out before. There is a fallacy that "everyone is entitled to an opinion" that I notice is commonly held by those without and opinion. They voice comments that actually don't qualify as opinion at all - Opinion is based on evidence logic and reason - as they have no knowledge of any of this it hardly qualifies as opinion does it?

 

Secondly as I've pointed out these comments are a symptom in themselves of the ignorance that surrounds the general publics awareness of road safety issues. This ignorance spreads right through Thai society, expats and those in authority as well and until people grasp the reality then no progress will be made

 

Just because I point out the fallacies and failings of someone's post it does not mean I'm being condescending either, on the contrary it says more about the person who makes an ill-informed post and then objects to having this pointed out.

I'd say at least half the comments shared in threads on Thai visa are ill informed. I suppose that is a reason I only see you on threads such as this one - you only share on something of which you have in depth knowledge. A bit boring but understandable. 

 

As to condescension, perhaps from your exalted position you do not realize how disdainful of others' input your comments appear to be. Let me see if I can find an example. Oh, yes, the quote above. 

 

Finally, please do keep commenting and giving insight on this subject, as perhaps one day, we "ignorant" folk will start to learn from you what truly needs to be done. In the meantime I bow down before your unparalleled knowledge of all things road-safety related.

 

PS still waiting for a pointer to some of your more detailed posts as I am interested in reading about solutions to the problem.      

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, Victornoir said:

But those diying on the road are largely drunk drivers of two wheels, without driving license.

QED people prepared to make a fallacious comment with no real idea of what is actuall6 happening... 

 

BTW drunk and unlicenced drivers have a tenency to kill other innocent people as well as themselves

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

perhaps one day, we "ignorant" folk will start to learn from you what truly needs to be done

I have said time and again that to avoid posting on something about which you know nothing the answer is get informed.

I'm not the teacher, at least not on this thread...if people are interested or wish to comment on a topic its up to them get informed.  If they find the topic boring then find something else to talk about.

As i said it is the appalling lack of the most basic understanding by the general public expats and the Thai authorities that significantly contributes to Thailand's dreadful road safety record.

Just a little research ( there is a difference between search and research) a touch of critical thinking and we would see a sea-change is the inane, baseless often racist comments that litter these threads on road safety. 

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

detailed posts as I am interested in reading about solutions to the problem

See above

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed. 

[Almer]

40 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

I have said time and again that to avoid posting on something about which you know nothing the answer is get informed.

I'm not the teacher, at least not on this thread...if people are interested or wish to comment on a topic its up to them get informed.  If they find the topic boring then find something else to talk about.

As i said it is the appalling lack of the most basic understanding by the general public expats and the Thai authorities that significantly contributes to Thailand's dreadful road safety record.

Just a little research ( there is a difference between search and research) a touch of critical thinking and we would see a sea-change is the inane, baseless often racist comments that litter these threads on road safety. 

Ok men that's enough take a beer and chill

[jerojero]

555. P my pants reading this whooper! Try enacting traffic law enforcement, mentioned for the millionth time!

[Damrongsak]

How long does it take without an offense to earn points back? 

[observer90210]

Points system worked miracles in France, but people respect the laws and the laws are honestly enforced.

 

In Thailand, no matter how harsh the laws are, nothing will change as the supreme judgement is the Bhat in ca$H.

 

Fight against Police corruption to decrease road deaths ... all the other steps in harsher laws are just a laughing stock as everybody knows what's going on behind the brown uniforms....

[Airbagwill]

10 hours ago, Almer said:

Ok men that's enough take a beer and chill

It would seem the irony of taking a break from discussing road safety to drink alcohol has been missed by some.

[Assurancetourix]

14 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

"or example the speed limit in all towns in Thailand is 80 km/h"

incorrect, they are as follows....

• Town and city: 60 km/h.
• Open Roads: 90 km/h.
• Motorways: 120 km/h.

No motorways in my province but ....I hope you can read these road marks :

 

45 km/h for trucks with a lorry

60 km'h for trucks alone and buses

80 km/h for cars and motorcycles

 

( and curiously you never see a pickup on these panels;
I suppose that their speed is not limited? 

 

entrance of a village ( rd 2091 )

 

Entrance of an Amphoe ( Charoen Sin ) ; rd 2280

 

 

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

No motorways in my province but ....I hope you can read these road marks :

 

45 km/h for trucks with a lorry

60 km'h for trucks alone and buses

80 km/h for cars and motorcycles

 

( and curiously you never see a pickup on these panels;
I suppose that their speed is not limited? 

 

entrance of a village ( rd 2091 )

 

Entrance of an Amphoe ( Charoen Sin ) ; rd 2280

 

 

is this road coming from a national boarder crossing?

Firstly one notes the sign is on the wrong side of the road. 

Which would be potentially dangerous for LHD vehicles just arriving.

It is also just a reiteration  of national  vehicular speed restrictions, probably erected by a local nabob in response to an accident black spot.

These signs are erected largely at random there is no consistent nation policy....

you can see too that unless it is regularly maintained it will quickly become obscured by the surrounding vegetation.

 

(I presume by "lorry" you mean "trailer"?)

[Fred white]

4 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

No motorways in my province but ....I hope you can read these road marks :

 

45 km/h for trucks with a lorry

60 km'h for trucks alone and buses

80 km/h for cars and motorcycles

 

( and curiously you never see a pickup on these panels;
I suppose that their speed is not limited? 

 

entrance of a village ( rd 2091 )

 

Entrance of an Amphoe ( Charoen Sin ) ; rd 2280

 

 

Usely pick ups are treated same as cars of course if they are over loaded like most are then it should be 60 like the big trucks are

[Airbagwill]

59 minutes ago, Fred white said:

Usely pick ups are treated same as cars of course if they are over loaded like most are then it should be 60 like the big trucks are

Many countries used to have loaded and unloaded speed limits on commercial vehicles - but of course in Thailand you have the same perennial problem of enforcement.

In UK ALL commercial vehicles had a 40 mph limit, but I think that was reviewed as it applied to small vans and pickups - it may even still apply on non motorway roads.......how many prosecutions is another matter....if the UK can't enforce it, I don't see Thailand having much success.

[GarryP]

Here's a good New York Times article on Thai road safety which was published earlier this month: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/19/world/asia/thailand-inequality-road-fatalities.html

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, GarryP said:

Here's a good New York Times article on Thai road safety which was published earlier this month: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/19/world/asia/thailand-inequality-road-fatalities.html

Yes I rad that Doesn't say anything we don't already know, but it does highlight the rich/poor divide which the WHO emphasis in its reports. The problem is that Thailand isn't a poor country but it does have the world's third greatest rich poor divide after India and Russia.

The reason for taking kids and families on motorbikes 4 or 5 at a time makes more sense when you realise these people have no option....unlike the farangs you see doing this - they are just plain irresponsible.

 

I particularly like the comment ......

"W.H.O. “Whether it’s cars or motorcycles or pedestrians, the safety of all users of roads must be considered, regardless of income level.”

most critics of Thai road safety don't consider this.....they think there is some innate racial stupidity in the people of Thailand - which of course is a totally racist concept and therefore fallacious.

[hobz]

On 8/15/2019 at 9:46 AM, Vacuum said:

...and still haven't learned?

It's impossible to avoid. 

[Airbagwill]

here is some research being carried out into the enforcement of speeding restrictions in Khon Kaen. - it looks like a serious effort, but it does show up some problems

 

"Automated speed control on urban arterial road: An experience from Khon Kaen City, Thailand..."

 

"The objective of this study is to evaluate the efficiency and effectiveness of the implemented pro- ject. The results indicated that this project decreased vehicle speed by 9.6% and increased the efficiency of the speed limit enforcement program six to eight times. Accidents, injuries, and fatalities rates decreased by 5.8%, 7.7%, and 34.3%, respectively. These outcomes prove the efficiency of the first stage of this speed control project in the context of developing cities." - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590198219300326

 

This stretch of road is an eightlane dual carriageway with frontage roads as well and some of the usual centre U-turns.

It also shows how important lane markings and signage are before any speed restrictions can be enforced...... and of course a fully trained admin to oversee....... this at present would be inapplicable on a nationwide basis in Thailand.

 

[UglyBug]

Long long past time this should have been Law many years ago ? I see no mention of underage drivers , uninsured drivers ? Perhaps this is just an Abbreviated Post ? I hope when this is Fully Implemented it saves Many Life's  ????

[Airbagwill]

3 hours ago, UglyBug said:

Long long past time this should have been Law many years ago ? I see no mention of underage drivers , uninsured drivers ? Perhaps this is just an Abbreviated Post ? I hope when this is Fully Implemented it saves Many Life's  ????

You are looking the wrong way,........ Thailand's death rate - the only stistic that seems to interest people is 10 times higher than most of Europe. This huge extra number is NOT caused exclusively or even in majority by the underaged and uninsured (even alcohol is only 25% or so) - it is NORMAL drivers that cause the problems, so one needs to look at the underlying causes of this