Thailand escapees: Where did you go, why, and how do you like it

[hansnl]

On 8/15/2019 at 12:17 PM, simon43 said:

I just completed (yesterday) my relocation to Luang Prabang, north Laos.

 

I had been living in Thailand since 2002, with working breaks in Luang Prabang and in Burma.

 

I had an Elite 5-year visa which was soon to expire.  At 60 years old, I didn't want to tie up 800,000 baht on a retirement 'visa', nor put down another 500,000 baht for the Elite visa.  IMHO, Thailand has changed significantly from when I first moved here, and I do not appreciate the xenophobia from the current government and from their officers.

 

I teach online, which is really not allowed on an Elite visa.  I also teach for free in the local community, and again that's not strictly legal on that visa.

 

I want to feel welcomed in the country where I reside, and there's no welcome for me in Thailand nowadays ????

 

I moved back to Luang Prabang because it suits my lifestyle.  I rent a 200 year old, 130 square metre hardwood house in the UNESCO protected old town, just seconds from a wide range of cafes, restaurants and bars.  I was out jogging at 4.30 am this morning along the safe roads in the old town - no vicious dogs, no fast cars, no trucks.

 

I went shopping to compare prices.  Imported goods are slightly more expensive than Thailand, but fresh fruit and vegetables are cheaper.  I ate in the night market last night ==> all you can eat veggie food for the equivalent of 50 baht.

 

My one year visa with work permit costs me about 14,000 baht, no money needed in the bank, no 90 day report, no TM30 etc.  I will start community teaching this weekend while my paid online teaching is during the week.

 

I have no regrets, other than I wish I had left Thailand years ago ????

Interesting!

[OneMoreFarang]

54 minutes ago, hansnl said:

No, we just have to follow all the printed and made-up-on-the-spot rules, which can be changed any time.

Really? How many farangs do you know here who follow all those rules?

[Con Peoples Fund]

On 8/15/2019 at 12:17 PM, simon43 said:

I just completed (yesterday) my relocation to Luang Prabang, north Laos.

 

I had been living in Thailand since 2002, with working breaks in Luang Prabang and in Burma.

 

I had an Elite 5-year visa which was soon to expire.  At 60 years old, I didn't want to tie up 800,000 baht on a retirement 'visa', nor put down another 500,000 baht for the Elite visa.  IMHO, Thailand has changed significantly from when I first moved here, and I do not appreciate the xenophobia from the current government and from their officers.

 

I teach online, which is really not allowed on an Elite visa.  I also teach for free in the local community, and again that's not strictly legal on that visa.

 

I want to feel welcomed in the country where I reside, and there's no welcome for me in Thailand nowadays ????

 

I moved back to Luang Prabang because it suits my lifestyle.  I rent a 200 year old, 130 square metre hardwood house in the UNESCO protected old town, just seconds from a wide range of cafes, restaurants and bars.  I was out jogging at 4.30 am this morning along the safe roads in the old town - no vicious dogs, no fast cars, no trucks.

 

I went shopping to compare prices.  Imported goods are slightly more expensive than Thailand, but fresh fruit and vegetables are cheaper.  I ate in the night market last night ==> all you can eat veggie food for the equivalent of 50 baht.

 

My one year visa with work permit costs me about 14,000 baht, no money needed in the bank, no 90 day report, no TM30 etc.  I will start community teaching this weekend while my paid online teaching is during the week.

 

I have no regrets, other than I wish I had left Thailand years ago ????

Sounds like u got it all well sorted mate. Wish i could do the same as u. Thanks for sharing, enjoy Luang Prabang life and have a good one mate which i am sure u are already. Kudos

[GarryP]

19 hours ago, simon43 said:

LoL, yes I went by myself and I look after myself.

 

I have been married 3 times (1 English, 2 from Issan).  In all 3 cases, the prime reason for marrying me (my post-divorce analysis) was to live off my meager income (occasionally very high income).  When the money stream hiccuped, the wives wanted out, every time.

 

Since my last divorce about 5 years ago, I have been happy as a pig in sh*t!  My fitness and health have improved, my stress levels are non-existent and I spend my surplus money on those who appreciate how it can change their lives (ie - I donate school-books and equipment to poor kids in Burma and teach English for free in my local community).

 

Although Lao women are definitely my kind of lady, my previous experiences with my wives means that I trust no-one if they say they love me.  I doubt it's true at my age and I don't have any interest to find out either ????  I'm very happy living on my own.

So your plans for the Pyrenees did not come to fruition. Glad to hear you found somewhere else to your liking. 

[simon43]

13 minutes ago, GarryP said:

So your plans for the Pyrenees did not come to fruition. Glad to hear you found somewhere else to your liking. 

Garry, my plan was either move back to the Pyrenees or move back to Laos.  I made serious inquiries about moving back to EU but was 'scared off' by the authority's insistence on seeing a fiscal tax report for my period living outside the EU.  Tax!!?  I have legally avoided paying personal income tax for yonks, but I was informed that it's impossible in the world not to pay income tax!!

 

With those comments, I decided to return to live in Laos (and not having any requirement to pay income tax...).

[NoshowJones]

On 8/15/2019 at 9:10 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

Did it cross your mind that most Thai people's life in Thailand is radically different to the life of farangs in Thailand, even if they live in the same place?

We are the outsiders and nobody really expects from us to be part of Thai hierarchy. Thais can't run away from Thai hierarchy inside Thailand.

If I would have grown up as a Thai in Thailand, especially in some small village, I am pretty sure I would want to live somewhere outside of Thailand to get away from what is expected from me.

But I enjoy living in Thailand as the "outsider" who does not have to follow all those (unwritten) rules.

Your last paragraph. When in Rome. Can you give me an example of an unwrtten rule.

If you want to live in Thailand, you should obey all their rules, unwritten or not.

I think that if any Farang wants to live in Thailand, they should always obey all the rules.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Your last paragraph. When in Rome. Can you give me an example of an unwrtten rule.

If you want to live in Thailand, you should obey all their rules, unwritten or not.

I think that if any Farang wants to live in Thailand, they should always obey all the rules.

Your example:

A smart young Thai (not from a HiSo family)  works in a company and he sees something goes wrong. He knows the old boss is responsible for this. And he knows the old boss should have known about that problem since a long time and he should have fixed that problem since a long time.

Now what will our smart young Thai do?

 

Over to you.

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Really? How many farangs do you know here who follow all those rules?

There are quite a few deluded posters who follow all these rules, and even agree with the TM30 nonsense, and give me the saddos when I say I will always try and work my way round rules I don't agree with.

[nickmondo]

20 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Garry, my plan was either move back to the Pyrenees or move back to Laos.  I made serious inquiries about moving back to EU but was 'scared off' by the authority's insistence on seeing a fiscal tax report for my period living outside the EU.  Tax!!?  I have legally avoided paying personal income tax for yonks, but I was informed that it's impossible in the world not to pay income tax!!

 

With those comments, I decided to return to live in Laos (and not having any requirement to pay income tax...).

the tax was probably due if you planned on going to the French pyrenees.

I am going back to Spain in November to finish off sorting out my Residencia there.

No tax report is needed to be shown there as far as I am aware,

I will be splitting the year between Spain and somewhere in Asia.

Not been to Laos yet, but i am certainly keen to take a look sometime.

Really looking forward to leaving here now, need a break from it very much.

And when I return here to visit, I am sure I will find Thailand cute again.

Because I have been here a long time now, its really getting on my tits at the moment.

Short term visits only here for me from now on, then it stays cute, and not annoying.

 

 

[Autonuaq]

Left because if my son, he is now happy and is feel well. 

 

The cost of Thailand are sky rocketing when I came first on 1999 till now all is changed and the thai additute is one of we not need you.

 

We already moved out a part of the company and will move out more. Qualifiaction of the Thai employee and the additude is the main reason. Most of them are not proud of the work they do. for the once that are proud of the work they do we have made arrangements for and now the last part of company will be reduced to a service and representation. The rest is moved partly back to europe and partly to other part of south east asia.

 

Yes, you read it correctly even the new built European plant produces cheaper then the Thai plant did. You also see this with the Chinese plants they are withdrawn too back to Europe laso because of costs and quality.

 

Thailand has changed when we first came we tought it is the place to be. Only on the period after 2002 till about 2013 all got worser. All developments made that Thailand is getting too expensive. 

 

Was also a nice place to have a vacation, the last few years all is rapidly becomming western including the materialized mentality. No wonder the thai personal debt is so high.

 

Anyway thailand has still to change and also know the rest of the 7 billion people of the  world is not waiting for 80 million Thai. The land that sadly lost her real smile and the majority of the Thai peolle think the world can not live with out them. Hope she will find her way back and beocmes a part of the world.

 

Thailand lost the initiative when you ask me. South Korea was the same as Thailand back in the 60's and now Camboja, Vietnam, Loas, Myanmar are even taken over Thailand making that they leave Thailand as one of the founders of ASEAN left behind.

 

[Enoon]

On 8/15/2019 at 3:10 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

But I enjoy living in Thailand as the "outsider" who does not have to follow all those (unwritten) rules.

 

Try being as poor as the Thai around you, while being an "outsider", and see how much you "enjoy" that.

 

It's your MONEY that makes Thailand the great place that you and so many others say it is.

 

Without the income differential it is as bad as the expat Thais say it is.

 

 

[chrissables]

On 8/15/2019 at 12:17 PM, simon43 said:

I just completed (yesterday) my relocation to Luang Prabang, north Laos.

 

I had been living in Thailand since 2002, with working breaks in Luang Prabang and in Burma.

 

I had an Elite 5-year visa which was soon to expire.  At 60 years old, I didn't want to tie up 800,000 baht on a retirement 'visa', nor put down another 500,000 baht for the Elite visa.  IMHO, Thailand has changed significantly from when I first moved here, and I do not appreciate the xenophobia from the current government and from their officers.

 

I teach online, which is really not allowed on an Elite visa.  I also teach for free in the local community, and again that's not strictly legal on that visa.

 

I want to feel welcomed in the country where I reside, and there's no welcome for me in Thailand nowadays ????

 

I moved back to Luang Prabang because it suits my lifestyle.  I rent a 200 year old, 130 square metre hardwood house in the UNESCO protected old town, just seconds from a wide range of cafes, restaurants and bars.  I was out jogging at 4.30 am this morning along the safe roads in the old town - no vicious dogs, no fast cars, no trucks.

 

I went shopping to compare prices.  Imported goods are slightly more expensive than Thailand, but fresh fruit and vegetables are cheaper.  I ate in the night market last night ==> all you can eat veggie food for the equivalent of 50 baht.

 

My one year visa with work permit costs me about 14,000 baht, no money needed in the bank, no 90 day report, no TM30 etc.  I will start community teaching this weekend while my paid online teaching is during the week.

 

I have no regrets, other than I wish I had left Thailand years ago ????

It's a great place, i have been many times. Hotel prices have gone up a lot in the old town area. Never rented, may i ask what the rent is?

Money tied up is a crazy issue here, but the last time i looked "retirement" visa were not available in Laos.

[GarryP]

29 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Your example:

A smart young Thai (not from a HiSo family)  works in a company and he sees something goes wrong. He knows the old boss is responsible for this. And he knows the old boss should have known about that problem since a long time and he should have fixed that problem since a long time.

Now what will our smart young Thai do?

 

Over to you.

Tell a foreigner who works in the company who will then bring the matter to the attention of the old boss. At least that happens where I work. They would be loathe to raise the issue themselves due to "face".

 

If no designated foreigner, then no one says anything and the problem remains unresolved.  

[MarleyMarl]

20 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

imo 95% reason of 'escapees' don't have enough money, basically as simple as that -  the rest of the stories being justification. That being said it's a tough break and depending on circumstances could happen to anyone..

 

I've been here for 10 years and I think you're right, but goes both ways. I feel like I don't have enough money to leave and live as comfortably in the west as I do here. I don't want to leave and downgrade my life. I'm working on it though, and I think I will have a suitable six figure passive income soon (real estate) which will be enough to leave.

 

I can't say it would be full time, I have a business here, and own property with my fiancee, but I need/want to start building a life back home.

Thailand I will never be PR/Citizen, doing a visa every year is a pain in the ass, i'm too frugal to waste 500k on Elite visa. I've already been to every country in Asia, some multiple times, whilst doing the 90 day "visa runs", so using Thailand as a hub for travel makes no sense. I don't want to drive here, I can't freely invest in property without the stress of loosing my investment. I don't want to have kids in the future and then send them to exorbitant international schools. Overall Bangkok is a smelly, over populated, polluted city, I don't see my self living anywhere else in Thailand.

 

Lastly, I hire 10+ Thai's full time, pay the social security tax, corporate income tax, collect VAT, personal income tax etc, but what benefits do I get?

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by MarleyMarl

[Kadilo]

20 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

imo 95% reason of 'escapees' don't have enough money, basically as simple as that -  the rest of the stories being justification. That being said it's a tough break and depending on circumstances could happen to anyone..

Although an inflammatory comment for many there is an element of truth in what you say. 

Im finding myself losing all the love I had for the country rapidly and most of the reasons are the due to the Immigration/Visa hassles etc on the income method. 

If I had the 800,000 sitting in the bank this pretty much goes away. 

 

Obviously budgets are also being stretched too with the current exchange issues so again this is money related and the things which made it a great place to go are now not still there but at a price. 

[fordguy61mi]

On 8/14/2019 at 10:10 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Did it cross your mind that most Thai people's life in Thailand is radically different to the life of farangs in Thailand, even if they live in the same place?

We are the outsiders and nobody really expects from us to be part of Thai hierarchy. Thais can't run away from Thai hierarchy inside Thailand.

If I would have grown up as a Thai in Thailand, especially in some small village, I am pretty sure I would want to live somewhere outside of Thailand to get away from what is expected from me.

But I enjoy living in Thailand as the "outsider" who does not have to follow all those (unwritten) rules.

My wife and I live in the US and have for 2 years now, she can’t wait for me to retire in 4 years and go back home. Not all Thais want to escape their country. She sees the shortfalls of the country as it is, but still longs to be home. I only want to snowbird to Thailand in the winters when I retire and I think she will be okay with that. 

[joecoolfrog]

14 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

100% correct.

I can't realistically see any person who left Thailand coming on this thread and admitting they made the wrong move. It's all about convincing themselves that it was the best move they made.

I know quite a few who have left, over the years, who, whilst here, said they were really enjoying life, and it was the best move (coming to live in Thailand) they had ever made.

Most of these have no further contact with their friends who remained, and who are still enjoyng life here, but you do get feedback about how bad some people who left are living back home, like working on a zero hours contract in a care home, and living in an HMO (house of multiple occupants) in some impoverished city over there.

Ridiculous generalisation !

I could just as easily argue that its those without very much money that have to stay , after all why would a wealthy person choose to live in Thailand .

[GarryP]

32 minutes ago, fordguy61mi said:

My wife and I live in the US and have for 2 years now, she can’t wait for me to retire in 4 years and go back home. Not all Thais want to escape their country. She sees the shortfalls of the country as it is, but still longs to be home. I only want to snowbird to Thailand in the winters when I retire and I think she will be okay with that. 

So many expat Thais like where they are working and the western way of life, however, a very large number of those make plans to retire back to Thailand. It is as if Thailand is a massive magnet and they are unable to resist the pull back home. 

[moe666]

20 hours ago, SenorJorge said:

I guess its no secret that I went home.

 

I was married and could have stayed on Non-Os or I could have even borrowed a little money and got the extension of stay.

 

Like our friend here I had a little Esan gold digger wife who married me just for my meager income.

 

The main reason I left Thailand is actually because of her.  I realised I married a nightmare relatively quickly and did not want to hang out where I could potentially be in physical danger (you never know with Udon people) and I just left.  I left everything except my passport.  I went to the airport and bye bye.  I don't see myself going back to Thailand ever again.

 

Right now I live in Cleveland in the USA.  About Cleveland?  Well, its a weird town.  Three blocks are nice, BMWs, lawn care services.  Another three blocks and its a like Sarajevo in 1992.   I am laid up in the hospital here at least through Christmas time.  I'm willing to stay in Cleveland as long as it takes to get better though.  I couldn't find the care I get there anywhere else. 

 

After this is up I am going to be heading to India.  I keep thinking of other options for me but keep coming back to India as the one for me.

Excuse me you thought Thailand was bad wait till you hit India, dogs, cattle, monkes, dirt and garbage stacked a mile high, horns blaring, and the runs every time you blink. Been there a few times and no reason to go back. You can get a ten year visa but you have to leave the country every 6 months.

[joecoolfrog]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

Your last paragraph. When in Rome. Can you give me an example of an unwrtten rule.

If you want to live in Thailand, you should obey all their rules, unwritten or not.

I think that if any Farang wants to live in Thailand, they should always obey all the rules.

 

Bit awkward though as many Thais consider rule number 1 to be ; Ignore or attempt to circumvent most rules !

Edited August 16, 2019 by joecoolfrog

[moe666]

1 hour ago, Enoon said:

 

Try being as poor as the Thai around you, while being an "outsider", and see how much you "enjoy" that.

 

It's your MONEY that makes Thailand the great place that you and so many others say it is.

 

Without the income differential it is as bad as the expat Thais say it is.

 

 

Yes true but what is your point, my income is higher than the local Thai because I planned it that way. Also I planned my stay to include the fact the dollar would probably go down to the baht and that prices would also rise in Thailand. I am very happy here married to a fine Thai lady who has her own job.

[Stevemercer]

Your last paragraph. When in Rome. Can you give me an example of an unwrtten rule.

If you want to live in Thailand, you should obey all their rules, unwritten or not.

I think that if any Farang wants to live in Thailand, they should always obey all the rules.

 

 

There is no doubt that farangs are outside the Thai hierarchy of things. We are a bit of a question mark in terms of status and often get tolerant treatment in social situations because no one is certain just where we stand.

 

As an example, it is possible to mildly flirt and even kiss a lady you meet at an official party goodnight without offense in many situations (but not all and judgement is needed). A Thai man cannot do this in a public situation and certainly not with someone of more status.

 

I know this is a trivial example, but there are many unwritten cultural norms that farang can (wittingly or unwittingly) sidestep.

[bkk6060]

Hey, here you go.

It is a good thread and an opportunity for those who have left to report.

Ha. Where are all of you ??

Funny isn't it that maybe a half dozen admit to leaving.

All the recent threats, negatively, yet it seems 99 percent are still here.

 

But God bless to those who make a move to a total downgrade in lifestyle to a 3rd world country.  How is the infrastructure?

More importantly #1, how is the health care/hospitals?

God man.  For me I do not want to die in some 3rd world place with lack of modern medicine.  But, over time I realise how unimportant planning for health is for those  expats in SEA.

Good luck to all with a total life 3rd world downgrade.  

Definitely not for me in my Golden years....

[Skallywag]

If I went back to USA, would never have the fun and luxury I have here...ginboy and another poster must be very wealthy as living in Chicago isn't cheap. Livin in USA would cost me 3 times or more what I spend here.

[atyclb]

On 8/15/2019 at 12:17 PM, simon43 said:

I just completed (yesterday) my relocation to Luang Prabang, north Laos.

 

I had been living in Thailand since 2002, with working breaks in Luang Prabang and in Burma.

 

I had an Elite 5-year visa which was soon to expire.  At 60 years old, I didn't want to tie up 800,000 baht on a retirement 'visa', nor put down another 500,000 baht for the Elite visa.  IMHO, Thailand has changed significantly from when I first moved here, and I do not appreciate the xenophobia from the current government and from their officers.

 

I teach online, which is really not allowed on an Elite visa.  I also teach for free in the local community, and again that's not strictly legal on that visa.

 

I want to feel welcomed in the country where I reside, and there's no welcome for me in Thailand nowadays ????

 

I moved back to Luang Prabang because it suits my lifestyle.  I rent a 200 year old, 130 square metre hardwood house in the UNESCO protected old town, just seconds from a wide range of cafes, restaurants and bars.  I was out jogging at 4.30 am this morning along the safe roads in the old town - no vicious dogs, no fast cars, no trucks.

 

I went shopping to compare prices.  Imported goods are slightly more expensive than Thailand, but fresh fruit and vegetables are cheaper.  I ate in the night market last night ==> all you can eat veggie food for the equivalent of 50 baht.

 

My one year visa with work permit costs me about 14,000 baht, no money needed in the bank, no 90 day report, no TM30 etc.  I will start community teaching this weekend while my paid online teaching is during the week.

 

I have no regrets, other than I wish I had left Thailand years ago ????

 

i admit ignorance on an elite visa but i am surprised one cannot work having it. i would have imagined for that money you would have flexibility like an "elite" . that sucks

[atyclb]

On 8/15/2019 at 12:17 PM, simon43 said:

I just completed (yesterday) my relocation to Luang Prabang, north Laos.

 

I had been living in Thailand since 2002, with working breaks in Luang Prabang and in Burma.

 

I had an Elite 5-year visa which was soon to expire.  At 60 years old, I didn't want to tie up 800,000 baht on a retirement 'visa', nor put down another 500,000 baht for the Elite visa.  IMHO, Thailand has changed significantly from when I first moved here, and I do not appreciate the xenophobia from the current government and from their officers.

 

I teach online, which is really not allowed on an Elite visa.  I also teach for free in the local community, and again that's not strictly legal on that visa.

 

I want to feel welcomed in the country where I reside, and there's no welcome for me in Thailand nowadays ????

 

I moved back to Luang Prabang because it suits my lifestyle.  I rent a 200 year old, 130 square metre hardwood house in the UNESCO protected old town, just seconds from a wide range of cafes, restaurants and bars.  I was out jogging at 4.30 am this morning along the safe roads in the old town - no vicious dogs, no fast cars, no trucks.

 

I went shopping to compare prices.  Imported goods are slightly more expensive than Thailand, but fresh fruit and vegetables are cheaper.  I ate in the night market last night ==> all you can eat veggie food for the equivalent of 50 baht.

 

My one year visa with work permit costs me about 14,000 baht, no money needed in the bank, no 90 day report, no TM30 etc.  I will start community teaching this weekend while my paid online teaching is during the week.

 

I have no regrets, other than I wish I had left Thailand years ago ????

 

was part of a volunteer medical-surgical mission to luang prabang a few years ago. lots of nice cafes and restaurants and humble people. no ocean-surf though 

[atyclb]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Your last paragraph. When in Rome. Can you give me an example of an unwrtten rule.

If you want to live in Thailand, you should obey all their rules, unwritten or not.

I think that if any Farang wants to live in Thailand, they should always obey all the rules.

Your example:

A smart young Thai (not from a HiSo family)  works in a company and he sees something goes wrong. He knows the old boss is responsible for this. And he knows the old boss should have known about that problem since a long time and he should have fixed that problem since a long time.

Now what will our smart young Thai do?

 

he might get relay that info via a friend he can trust and if if gets to someone in a higher social status it can be formally addressed.

[HeyHeyHey]

1 minute ago, atyclb said:

 

i admit ignorance on an elite visa but i am surprised one cannot work having it. i would have imagined for that money you would have flexibility like an "elite" . that sucks

The "elite" visa is a tourist visa - it says so on the paper.

 

But but "you stay too long in Thailand, refused entry" if ya don't pay extra

[Oww]

I visited luang prabang twice and loved it. Lovely atmosphere and people. Actually considering moving there. The thing I noticed which holds me back...the "best" supermarket/mall was like an old warehouse with mostly Chinese imported foods that looked like they had been sitting on the shelves for months. If your used to the imported goodies at Rimping supermarket I just don't know how you can survive there. Granted there are fine bakeries and coffee shops but for imported groceries I didn't see anything. I would have to eat out at restaurants most of the time.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

There are quite a few deluded posters who follow all these rules, and even agree with the TM30 nonsense, and give me the saddos when I say I will always try and work my way round rules I don't agree with.

The problem with those rules is that it's easy to ignore many of them, it's possible to get around other but it's necessary to follow a few.

I.e. one famous activity from girls in this country is official illegal. Who cares?

If the police stops me for not riding on the left lane, no problem, 100B, problem solved.

But then there are things like visa regulations, etc. Sure, we can try to ignore them. But then maybe Thailand decides to deport us and never lets us in again.

That's why smart people think which rules the can ignore, which they can handle, and which once they better follow.