Trump presses U.S. companies to close China operations

[zydeco]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

There's that. But maybe it's a good measure of how far-gone Trump is, if his nonsense manages to divert attention from China to the USA. Previously to this statement, China wasn't having a great week - what with mounting criticism regarding the HK situation. With a couple of tweets, Trump managed to change the tide.

 

Addressing issues related to China - sure. With this guy at the helm? Unlikely to get anywhere.

True. Yesterday, when China announced its own tariffs just before the American markets opened, it was all pins and needles. I saw it on television, on financial fora, on individual financial blogs. People were already counting down, waiting for THE tweet. When it came, however, even everyone expecting it was shocked. The man is off his rocker. But what do you do when the only person in town who recognizes the danger is the village idiot? The Bushes and Clintons fed the beast. Obama made a half hearted try with TPP but was still tip toeing around too carefully. But it could well be that you're right. The only thing saving China from utter condemnation is the nature of the only person who seems (at times) to stand up to them. The question is what will happen if there is a Hong Kong bloodbath? What about an attack on Taiwan? Will people still focus on Trump just because he is a fool.  It seems that some people in the region at least are waking up. How ironic that a current Japanese aircraft carrier, Kaga, almost 68 years after Pear Harbor is requesting US Marine F35s be outfitted to protect against Chinese incursions.

 https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2019/march/japans-refitted-izumo-class-ship-still-defensive-platform

[zydeco]

50 minutes ago, Becker said:

 

He sure looks uncomfortable when grown-ups are talking to him.

That picture looks like America, Japan, and Asia on one side and Eurosclerosis on the other.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

Trump is going OT because he knows he will lose. Xi has absolute power he can sit this out, Trump thinks he has absolute power but he knows 2020 is looming.

He would probably like to end this trade war on any terms now but he can't be seen to back down because trade wars are good and easy to win so he has to go all the way to the edge of the cliff and a little beyond. When he loses in 2020 and the status quo in trade is restored with no gain but lots of pain for nothing he can blame the next administration for rolling over to the Chinese.

It is too late to contain the Chinese now, that should have been done decades ago, the Chinese market and supply chains are too important for the whole world, not just America and Europe. The West just thought in dollars not as forward thinking statesmen, the horse has bolted, accept it.

And don't forget his laughable get real real tough with un from Nth. Korea, three meetings produced nothing in fact un seems to have the upper hand and the clown makes statements about how he loves un. The crazy  and dangerous clown!

[xylophone]

9 hours ago, dcutman said:

Typical, childish response from a Trump hater.

I've seen the term "Trump hater" used quite a bit on forums and I think it warrants closer scrutiny.

 

If on the one hand there are Trump haters, on the other hand there are Trump likers, but then one has to wonder at what there is to like??

 

The man is a proven pathological liar.
He is a cheat (hiring illegals and underpaying them).
He is a multi bankrupt thereby depriving workers and contractors of their living.
Draft dodger.
Misogynist.
Racist
Narcissist.
He insulted an American war hero.
Destroyed the Iran nuclear agreement.
He is just plain dumb and this is proven by his frequent gaffes.and there are far too many to list but I'll give you a few: – 

 

i). "I was thinking of nominating Ivanka for the position of head of the World Bank, because she is good with numbers". Duh!
ii). "During the revolution our troops took over the airports". This in 1775!
iii). Referred to Prince Charles as the "Prince of Whales". 
iv). He doesn't understand tariffs and how they are affecting American companies and American consumers!
v). Has no idea about global warming and even suggested that one particular state in the US could do with some when it was enduring a cold snap!
vi). Has suggested that he would like to buy Iceland, and when everybody thought it was a joke, they realised he was serious, especially when he cancelled his state visit to Denmark?

 

I'm sure other folk could add quite a few more to this list and that's just the point.........if there are Trump likers out there, exactly what is it they are liking, because there's nothing to like!

 

[RJRS1301]

16 hours ago, xylophone said:

I've seen the term "Trump hater" used quite a bit on forums and I think it warrants closer scrutiny.

 

If on the one hand there are Trump haters, on the other hand there are Trump likers, but then one has to wonder at what there is to like??

 

The man is a proven pathological liar.
He is a cheat (hiring illegals and underpaying them).
He is a multi bankrupt thereby depriving workers and contractors of their living.
Draft dodger.
Misogynist.
Racist
Narcissist.
He insulted an American war hero.
Destroyed the Iran nuclear agreement.
He is just plain dumb and this is proven by his frequent gaffes.and there are far too many to list but I'll give you a few: – 

 

i). "I was thinking of nominating Ivanka for the position of head of the World Bank, because she is good with numbers". Duh!
ii). "During the revolution our troops took over the airports". This in 1775!
iii). Referred to Prince Charles as the "Prince of Whales". 
iv). He doesn't understand tariffs and how they are affecting American companies and American consumers!
v). Has no idea about global warming and even suggested that one particular state in the US could do with some when it was enduring a cold snap!
vi). Has suggested that he would like to buy Iceland, and when everybody thought it was a joke, they realised he was serious, especially when he cancelled his state visit to Denmark?

 

I'm sure other folk could add quite a few more to this list and that's just the point.........if there are Trump likers out there, exactly what is it they are liking, because there's nothing to like!

How many documented lies since taking office? Thousands and all on record.

Did not even inform his appointed ambassador to Denmark he was cancelling the trip, no sense of protocol or dignity

[ylmiri]

1 hour ago, zydeco said:

True. Yesterday, when China announced its own tariffs just before the American markets opened, it was all pins and needles. I saw it on television, on financial fora, on individual financial blogs. People were already counting down, waiting for THE tweet. When it came, however, even everyone expecting it was shocked. The man is off his rocker. But what do you do when the only person in town who recognizes the danger is the village idiot? The Bushes and Clintons fed the beast. Obama made a half hearted try with TPP but was still tip toeing around too carefully. But it could well be that you're right. The only thing saving China from utter condemnation is the nature of the only person who seems (at times) to stand up to them. The question is what will happen if there is a Hong Kong bloodbath? What about an attack on Taiwan? Will people still focus on Trump just because he is a fool.  It seems that some people in the region at least are waking up. How ironic that a current Japanese aircraft carrier, Kaga, almost 68 years after Pear Harbor is requesting US Marine F35s be outfitted to protect against Chinese incursions.

 https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2019/march/japans-refitted-izumo-class-ship-still-defensive-platform

So Japanese is again playing the US running dog like they did during the vietnam war. During the Vietnam war Japan was manufacturing arms under license from US for use in Vietnam. Poor Vietnam villagers didn't even know why they died.

I wouldn't be surprised if Japan get nuke by N.korea or China.

 

[Tug]

After this latest episode were are the republicans why are they cowering why can’t they call it for what it is Donald is a clear and present danger he needs an intervention 

[jany123]

1 hour ago, DLock said:

There is a lot more at stake here than "made in China" MAGA hats...personally I think it will come down to who blinks first...but I'm sure enjoying the show.

 

Probably worth the barstool economists reading up a little.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/investor/2019/08/12/why-us-will-win-china-trade-war/#681c9fd41394

Yes indeed.... and here’s another (older and opposing) POV, but seemingly accurate in its predictions, even forecasting exactly what Apple conveyed to the trump during the week past. 

https://www.imd.org/research-knowledge/articles/why-america-would-lose-a-trade-war-with-china/

[keemapoot]

Just now, jany123 said:

es indeed.... and here’s another (older and opposing) POV, but seemingly accurate in its predictions, even forecasting exactly what Apple conveyed to the trump during the week past.

Interesting that I read recently that the CEO of Apple, Tim Cook, is the one and only tech titan that has a direct line to Trump. He calls Trump directly and Trump talks to him. With so much of Apple's fortunes riding on China production, it's not surprising that Cook has somehow gone out of his way and tried to reason with the unreasonable Trump.

 

I don't think he has much chance though weighed against Trump's base who are pulling him the other way, and Trump will always choose pandering to votes over any other concern, even economic meltdown.

[jany123]

49 minutes ago, Tug said:

After this latest episode were are the republicans why are they cowering why can’t they call it for what it is Donald is a clear and present danger he needs an intervention 

They are distancing themselves to preserve their own political careers, whilst at the same time, being to afraid to actually stand up to the trump (for the same reason.)

 

as the trumps star dims, so these gutless creatures will emerge from their holes, and then make comment

 

i saw a compilation of comments made by the trumps opponents prior to the last election (before becoming afraid of his petulant etc etc)... from calling him the candidate of chaos (how accurate that seems now) to Cruz suggesting he is so unstable that one day he might wake up and decide to “nuke”... ????????????... wait for it... Denmark.

Ted must be feeling pretty smug about that one!

[quadperfect]

This is great news. I love it.

[DLock]

50 minutes ago, jany123 said:

Yes indeed.... and here’s another (older and opposing) POV, but seemingly accurate in its predictions, even forecasting exactly what Apple conveyed to the trump during the week past. 

https://www.imd.org/research-knowledge/articles/why-america-would-lose-a-trade-war-with-china/

 

Agree, there are some good articles offering opposing views.

 

It's going to be really interesting on how it plays out, who can sustain their economy longer and how it affects the rest of the world - both positively and negatively. 

[jvs]

I have been anti private gun ownership for most of my life but now very slowly the 2nd amendment is starting to make sense?

But never had i imagined the reason why i would nearly change my mind.

 

[tomacht8]

6 hours ago, zydeco said:

The problem with Trump's China policy is that he hasn't been tough enough, that his tariffs are on again, off again, that his ban on Chinese tech theft is insincere. In short, like everything else he does, his China policy is rooted in his own ego and the need to fill it with attention. And at the core there is always his fear that his "precious," his bloated up balloon like markets, which he regards as his political Nielsen ratings, will collapse. And his biggest error of all was pulling out of the only existent countermeasure to China's influence in Asia, the TPP.

 

But the fact also is that China is America's enemy. And Europe's and Japan's and South Korea's, and all those Southeast Asian countries who just recently had the water tap turned off with the Mekong River just to show who was boss.  Thus it is bewildering to read through this topic and see virtually no critical mention of Xi or China. The reference to Orwell's 1984 and the US, while entirely omitting China's social credit score system, 24/7 online and offline surveillance, censorship, imprisonment of critics, illegal claims to the SCS, Bhutan, Tibet, concentration camps for Uighurs and others who even slightly disagree with being made the objects of genocide, and made to order killing for organ harvesting--that this would be omitted just to get in another session on the Trump pinata is astounding. Trump if he has done only one thing, inadvertently or not, he has finally belled the Panda.

All right. But Trump is too stupid in his boundless self-esteem. Had he worked with his allies on the china problem together, he would have had a chance of success.

 

Instead, he starts quarrels and trade wars with all befriended nations (EU, Japan, Canada, Mexico, etc. + Paris Climate Agreement, Iran Nuclear Agreement, Nato Agreement, Russia missile deal, etc.).

 

Trump is unfit for president and will be forever.

 

 

 

 

[jany123]

25 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

All right. But Trump is too stupid in his boundless self-esteem. Had he worked with his allies on the china problem together, he would have had a chance of success.

 

Instead, he starts quarrels and trade wars with all befriended nations (EU, Japan, Canada, Mexico, etc. + Paris Climate Agreement, Iran Nuclear Agreement, Nato Agreement, Russia missile deal, etc.).

 

Trump is unfit for president and will be forever.

 

 

 

 

What’s really scary is the fact that he’s done all this bizarre s***, whilst in his first term, with an eye on re-election. If the trump gets a second term, with no need to heed public opinion in any way at all, imagine the damage he can do. Poor Americans will be in for a tougher time, but that’s ok because the rich will win again.

MAGA!

[meand]

You gotta love the rich white man's view of the world. Prices skyrocket for the poor but that does not mean much to him. I think the best thing this guy has done in his life is the self reported pussy grab. 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, meand said:

You gotta love the rich white man's view of the world. Prices skyrocket for the poor but that does not mean much to him. I think the best thing this guy has done in his life is the self reported pussy grab. 

Respect pussies please.

[candide]

8 hours ago, DLock said:

There is a lot more at stake here than "made in China" MAGA hats...personally I think it will come down to who blinks first...but I'm sure enjoying the show.

 

Probably worth the barstool economists reading up a little.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/investor/2019/08/12/why-us-will-win-china-trade-war/#681c9fd41394

Very interesting article. Thank you for linking it. It has to be balanced by the respective ideological ability of US and Chinese governments to mobilise public opinion. The Chinese public opinion is very well conditioned to endure economic hardship in the name of nationalism, as a 'victim' of the imperialism of the 'bad' USA.

[Guitarzan]

I remember the days when The USA didn't do business with communists, and brutal dictators. I'd like to see that happen again. 

[Guitarzan]

10 hours ago, stevenl said:

Of course there are many things wrong with China, many more than with Trump and the USA.

 

But that is not the issue here, the issue is that Trump is acting like a dictator, like Xi could do and would do if he felt the need. But the USA is not China.

It's about time Trump started acting like a dictator! Democracy is over rated!  

[RoadWarrior371]

10 hours ago, zydeco said:

But the fact also is that China is America's enemy. And Europe's and Japan's and South Korea's, and all those Southeast Asian countries who just recently had the water tap turned off with the Mekong River just to show who was boss.  Thus it is bewildering to read through this topic and see virtually no critical mention of Xi or China. The reference to Orwell's 1984 and the US, while entirely omitting China's social credit score system, 24/7 online and offline surveillance, censorship, imprisonment of critics, illegal claims to the SCS, Bhutan, Tibet, concentration camps for Uighurs and others who even slightly disagree with being made the objects of genocide, and made to order killing for organ harvesting--that this would be omitted just to get in another session on the Trump pinata is astounding. Trump if he has done only one thing, inadvertently or not, he has finally belled the Panda.

This.

 

What if China Imperialism is the biggest risk to our way of life this century, and the Bar-stool crowd totally missed it? ????  Nah, that would never happen.  If man smart about find cheap Boom Boom, he must be smart about politics.  ????

 

 

 

[Guitarzan]

3 hours ago, jany123 said:

All right. But Trump is too stupid in his boundless self-esteem. Had he worked with his allies on the china problem together, he would have had a chance of success.

 

Instead, he starts quarrels and trade wars with all befriended nations (EU, Japan, Canada, Mexico, etc. + Paris Climate Agreement, Iran Nuclear Agreement, Nato Agreement, Russia missile deal, etc.).

 

Trump is unfit for president and will be forever.

I do believe he left for Tokyo today to meet with Abe. Do you honestly believe Trump hasn't been in contact with our allies?  

[tomacht8]

31 minutes ago, Guitarzan said:

I do believe he left for Tokyo today to meet with Abe. Do you honestly believe Trump hasn't been in contact with our allies?  

Before or After he Twitter?

With Trump, the reliability of the US has dropped to zero. 

[jany123]

@Guitarzan somehow you managed to mess up your copy and paste or whatever, and assigned my name to another posters post. My post at 106 above is a response to this same post that you are responding to at 113... please try and be a little more careful. 

 

that aside.... I believe the trump may have had contact with allies, but it would have been ineffective, as witnessed by his position on Russia rejoining the G7/G8, which all bar him are against. This is an issue to discuss privately with the principles, vs his disturbing tweet fests, which only last week also included advising the world of his snub to the Danish royals.... contact alone, isn't necessarily “communication.”.

[RJRS1301]

27 minutes ago, jany123 said:

@Guitarzan somehow you managed to mess up your copy and paste or whatever, and assigned my name to another posters post. My post at 106 above is a response to this same post that you are responding to at 113... please try and be a little more careful. 

 

that aside.... I believe the trump may have had contact with allies, but it would have been ineffective, as witnessed by his position on Russia rejoining the G7/G8, which all bar him are against. This is an issue to discuss privately with the principles, vs his disturbing tweet fests, which only last week also included advising the world of his snub to the Danish royals.... contact alone, isn't necessarily “communication.”.

Communication, Trump = oxymoron

Communication requires the element of active listening, remain silent at times while others speak, analysing what has been said, then responding in measured tones. 

I look forward to his “performance” and reception at G7 meeting.

[Stargeezr]

This from the guy who has  few morals.  The art of the deal , book, was successful, but Donald seems to be using that old information a bit too much.  Enjoy the coming reccession USA,  I know that Canada will also suffer, but we will survive , just like the last time.

Geezer

[ExpatOilWorker]

15 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

"Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME and making your products in the USA," Trump wrote on Twitter. "We don't need China and, frankly, would be far better off without them."

 

If there is one thing Trump does not seem to understand it is this. The US does not control corporate America. Corporate America owns and controls the US government, and Donald Trump. Both he, and the entire federal government are bought and paid for. So, they will do as they please. They are laughing in boardrooms all over the country, and the world right now. There is no doubt that Donald Trump is by far, the most mocked man in the world. And he deserves every bit of that. He has earned it. 

 

Another thing he does not understand is that the US needs China far more than China needs the US. When it comes to accumulated debt, debt per capita owed by all forms of government, from local, to state, to the federal level, China is way under half of what the US is burdened by. Plus China is sitting on trillions of dollars of cash and US debt. The US barely has any cash, and is near a trillion dollars in debt in 2019, due to Trump spending money like a drunken sailor. 

 

And in the future there is no doubt in my mind that China will become more of a factor economically, and in many other areas. And the US will diminish in their influence, power and wealth by the year. Trump and the GOP, and most Americans have no perspective whatsoever, on any of this. 

Remember Thailand 1997?

At the onset of the Asian Financial crises Thailand wasn't broke, they still had about $20 billion left in foreign reserve, which at the time was about 15% of their GDP. It just wasn't enough.

China's foreign reserve isn't that mighty any more and is fast approaching 20% of their GDP. Not sure they can afford to go much lower.

 

 

[kevin612]

I doubt it, there are huge profits from big companies annually.

[Berkshire]

6 hours ago, Guitarzan said:

I remember the days when The USA didn't do business with communists, and brutal dictators. I'd like to see that happen again. 

What if other countries didn't want to do business with the USA because of our dictator?

[keemapoot]

5 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

What if other countries didn't want to do business with the USA because of our dictator?

So true. Luckily, this or any dictator can only last 4, or in the worst case 8 years. That is, unless that dictator can successfully warp the democratic process so that it takes many years to repair it. At this point, he has done significant damage, but it is repairable.