Cables to be used outside

[domdom]

Hello

 

We live in a condo in front of water and outside lamps are fitted.. Recently the manager had the outside electricity redone.. Cable used is not NYY..

they fitted it in yellow rigid pipes.. which end 20 centimeters before the wire entering the light pole.. wires are not buried but just set (and there without any yellow pipes protection) in type of plumbing blue pipes 10 centimeters diameter running along the garden limit wall (10 centimeters high)

Those pipes regularly get filled by water when raining, rats can go easily inside.. on top of it when there are important high tides, the wire will be completely under water..

I complained to the management which will come saturday to check.. with the guy who redid the electricity who will obviously say everything is fine

Does anyone have an official document pointing out, there should be earthing, this type of cable cannot be used etc.. (it is normal black cable normally used inside) as I wish to give it to the manager

Thanks a lot

Have a nice day

[jastheace]

CROSSY !!

[Crossy]

Can you see the markings on the cable? We can then look up the actual spec. on a manufacturer's website.

 

If it's the regular THW found everywhere then 

http://www.bangkokcable.com/product/backoffice/file_upload/131004_1-450!750V 70C 60227 IEC 01 (THW).pdf

states :-

 

Quote

Application
• Use for general purpose
• For installation in raceway and shall be protected water into raceway
• Do not install in duct in ground or direct burial in ground

 

As you say, NYY is the correct stuff 

http://www.bangkokcable.com/product/backoffice/file_upload/131007_34-450!750V 70C NYY-2C.pdf

 

Is the circuit protected by an RCD/RCBO (probably not)?

Grounding may not be required if the fittings are double-insulated (they won't be) or local earth rods are fitted at each light.

 

All the above is assuming these are 220V lights and not low-voltage LED units with a power supply/driver in a protected location.

[domdom]

Hello and thank you

I went and checked and on the cable is written ANT cable 2x1 300/500 V Type 60227 IFC 53

I go and take some snaps and post them

On this wires are connected 5 220 volts outside lamps (old and to change)

No grouding etc..

Thanks again

[tjo o tjim]

Between the water and UV I thought you needed an XLPE insulation with a PVC sheath or the thick RHW insulation. 

[domdom]

Hello

 

Here are the snaps

 

First of all the 2 boxes located outside the building from which the wires go to the lamps (the length from the box till the last lamp is approximately 50 meters

Then the cables go partly protected in yellow rigid tubes partly without any protection.. every 10 meters there is a hole permitting access to the cables where the cables are totally unprotected and very often in water..

Then other boxes are along the path where you can see cables entering and going out in a yellow pipe but going again in the hole without any protection..

The last snap I put in the mail is taken from top of the path.. you can see the cables coming in yellow tubes.. stopped before the lamp .. It is taken from top.. When high tide the mud you see down is of course covered by water and the yellow pipe is in the water. By very high tide the water covers also 10 centimeters of the outside lamp base (the black sort of tube)

Thanks you very much

[Crossy]

60227 IEC 53 is a whole family of flexible PVC/PVC cables.

 

Some of the specs say damp conditions so may be OK. Can you get better image of the actual markings?

 

[domdom]

Hello

 

I checked again and the only things more are TIS 11 part 5.2553 TCC Cable

According to everything I found on internet, it specifies can be used inside to connect lamps or electrical appliances.. one specifies even to be used only in dry rooms..

Pls tell me which snap you want me to take more precisely

Thank you

[Crossy]

TIS 11 part 5.2553 pretty much puts it as VKF. Just regular flex.

 

Not suitable for outside (but far better than THW would be), definitely not suitable for continuous wet although the Bangkok Cable site doesn't actually state "indoor use only".

 

http://www.bangkokcable.com/product/backoffice/file_upload/131004_18-300!500V 70C 60227 IEC 53-2C (VKF).pdf

 

Note that I have some VKF that's been outside since 2012 (no I didn't install it) and, apart from the outer jacket being rather less flexible than it was, the cable is in good condition and I'm in no hurry to replace it. Of course, that doesn't make it right. 

[domdom]

Thank you very much

I had asked them to put NYY 2 or 3x1.5 and had required to make a proper grouding/earthing..

I also got an answer from SK Bangkok .. can be interesting for you to know..

He tells me

Cable type 60227 IEC 53 it cannot be used in wet area or underground. (see attached file cable specification it has only English)

 

Underground cable and wet area for cable size 2C x 1 mm2, I recommend you to use H07RN-F 2C x 1 mm2 for more info>> H07RN-F and you need cable conduit pipe or tube to protect cable from water.

 

Although NYY is an underground cable, if its size 2C x 1 mm2 it still can't be used in underground.

 

 

[Crossy]

Yes, k. Bell at SK (I'm assuming he's still there) has excellent knowledge. Good call! 

[domdom]

Do you know if it exists here in Thailand (Pattaya) a company able to check an electricity connection (I think of Bureau Veritas or equivalent as in fact we don t need a big company to do it but a really qualified company as I am pretty sure the contractor answer will be that everything is right and the manager does not know anything about technical details)

May be you did not see very well on the snaps, but he on top of it put the yellow pipes only on the parts of cables which are not fitted in this type of plumbing pipes which run under the dock..

Do you agree with me that the full cable has to be under a pipe (as this type of plumbing pipe is around 10 centimeters wide), then I do think in the existing holes in the dock where the cable is completely visible and can be touch by anyone there should be special boxes to protect it.. and then I do think that the pipe cannot be stopped 10 centimeters before the cable enters into the lamp pole but has to go inside and the connection has to be done in the lamp pole and above the water level ever reached

Have a nice afternoon and thank you very much

[Crossy]

The pukka underground cable (recommended by SK) is fine even with no conduit, the conduit provides additional mechanical protection. So the areas that are exposed are not really a safety issue.

 

Sorry, I can't recommend and contractor in Pattaya.

[domdom]

Hello

I didn t mean a contractor but an audit company to check the existing connections..

Pukka ?? is it NYY or H07RN ?

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, domdom said:

Hello

I didn t mean a contractor but an audit company to check the existing connections..

Pukka ?? is it NYY or H07RN ?

 

Sorry, pukka is a British loan word from Hindi, it means good, correct etc.

 

NYY or H07RN would both be fine provided the NYY is 1.5mm² or bigger (from the SK quote).

 

[OneMoreFarang]

Do you have already something in mind what you will do if they don't care what you think or what is right or what is wrong?

I know in principle you are right. But do you expect that some official will expect this and that official will care if it is correct or not? And do you expect the electrician will do it again according to specifications (which he probably never even heard about)?

And do you expect to live happy ever after in that condominium?

Just asking.

 

[domdom]

Hello,

There will be 2 choices.. either the contractor remakes it free of cost (changing the cable and fitting it properly)  either we have to repay somebody else to do it correctly.. but we cannot stay with that type of electricity even more after the contractor charged 2 times the price I got recently from another contractor for the same job with correct cables

I clearly stated this is dangerous for people and with risk of fire.. and also for the boats (electrolite)..

I did not ask for a meeting but after receiving my mail the juristic decided to come and check himself (I imagine with the contractor). and the new day to day manager is very much worried about that (we had a short circuit last week and the electrician who came also pointed out the bad quality of the work)

We are not a big condo and have a good relationship with the juristic..

Have a nice evening

 

[eunobius]

We know a qualified electrician (Swiss) who carries out all repairs in our house. Maybe he can help you?


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