TM30: The form getting expats in Thailand into a bureaucratic tangle

[Jumbo1968]

In interesting video which indicates why Expats are leaving Thailand and won’t return.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=bVy8BOKJP6Y

 

[SuwadeeS]

I hope that all foreigner start to complain to their embassies.

Further, as a matter of fact, it is a discrimination of foreigners!!!!!!!!!

Thais never fill any form, when moving around in Thailand.

They are only registered at there blue house book location.

 

It really need to be done something about all these discrimination for foreigners.

I would guess, it will be a good idea when all the foreigners publish and post their negative 

experiences online.

So this country might lose there last tourists and foreigners to Vietnam etc.

[Andycoops]

6 hours ago, 3421abc said:

Great BBC picked up this story. Hopefully other news outlets will report as well. This should be an embarrassment for Thailand if they ever want to be a modern international country this kind of law only going against it.

And no doubt the BBC and others who broadcast any negative story will be blocked just as before as had happened in the last few years.

[Globe Trotter]

4 hours ago, Vacuum said:

Unfortunately, that animal is extinct. It died with the introduction of mobile phones, google, facebook, windows, apple, plastic money, governments survilance agencies (a well known three-letter acronym in the west is famous).....

I was speaking to a friend about this today. Most people either do not see it or they simply don't care. The reason to both of these mindsets is because it has been carried out at a very slow pace. Tracking and surveillance tech has gotten more and more close to the human body, starting with the home computer that is of course stationary, to a laptop, to a smartphone, Google Glasses and the Apple iWatch thing. The next part of this process (which some people have already gone for) is to have tech inside of the body, which has been the agenda all along. 

People trade their privacy for sheer convenience and laziness. It's no secret that huge entities can tune into your phone cameras and listen to your microphones whenever they want, and even Smart TVs giving access to the camera when it's on standby mode. 

Think back a few decades ago, there were not even such things as passports or visas. People travelled freely around the world and hopped onto planes much like we do with buses. Now people have passports as a legal requirement, and you need to give up your fingerprint to cross into many countries. Again, this has all been done at a slow pace as to not shock or scare people. Some wonder, why is it even an issue.. I'm not doing anything 'wrong'?? That isn't the point, as human beings we should have the right to have a free and private life. What's ahead in the next 20-40 years is a whole lot worse than anything you'd find in a George Orwell novel. 

[logres212]

Maybe an ankle bracelet would be easier... ????

[Chazar]

I  think TM30  should be replaced with a daily  form letting them know we  will be at this  address  tonight, it  should be 4  copies signed by the head of the  village witnessed by 3-4  villagers, be signed in blood, with all finger and toe  prints a  rectal scan and  iris  scan also,  we  should also pledge allegiance to the govt and  have to eat somtam daily, all rules to be changed every 24  hours.

[Chazar]

1 minute ago, logres212 said:

Maybe an ankle bracelet would be easier... ????

or neck!

[alzack]

6 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

It will never be abolished because its a source of income and it assures that the IOs can keep their jobs. And the app will be kept malfunctioning for the same reasons.

POLICE STATE MENTALITY  PAPER MOUNTAINS PAPER REGIME

[Bangkok Barry]

6 hours ago, GraThai said:

I totally agree that TM30 is an outdated law however I have lived here in Thailand for 30+  years and try to abide by all the rules including this one. Every time I return home from a trip she fills in the form pops into immigration and its done so what is the massive problem...unless of course people have something to hide?????

 

How about some people don't appreciate being treated as a potential criminal? How about that many thousands can't just "pop into immigration" which might require a whole day and round trip of 200 kilometres or more? How about thinking about people other than yourself? How about naming any other country in the world, any at all, where they have such a draconian law that says that a wife can be fined for not reporting to a government agency that her husband has returned to his own house?

 

And don't talk about doing it on-line, where in typical Thai-fashion it's a mess. In the real world, the world where wife's aren't fined for not reporting their husband is home, if you register on-line for anything you normally choose your own name and password, submit it to the company/organisation and can use it instantly. In Thailand you apply and it can take weeks or months to wait for them to give you log-in details of their own choosing, and then often the system doesn't work.

 

They even admit there are problems. A pity they didn't sort out the system before imposing it on everyone, same as the 90-day reporting that also serves absolutely no purpose at all.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Bangkok Barry

[tandor]

22 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

You dont travel around Thailand frequently.  If a biker takes a trip for a day or two every week he will have to make frequent illogical trips to the IO. The requirement has not been necessary in the last 30 years and its not necessary now. I travel frequently around Thailand from my base in Pattaya.  Many small guesthouses,  resorts,  AirBnB, do not bother with TM30 leaving me with a gap to explain which might get people intk trouble. The TM30 comes from an era of fighting armed communist insurgency and was introduced by a government that burned demonstrators alive. The TM30 is totalitarian and authoritarian.

..correct..and a lot of these small places you mention are not registered either, so they're not about to do anything until sprung.

[Chazar]

Just now, alzack said:

POLICE STATE MENTALITY  PAPER MOUNTAINS PAPER REGIME

one  day theres  gong to be a very big  fire nationwide.

[Vacuum]

Why not just report the TM30 the same day you apply for your extension and accept the 800-1600 fine.

[Chazar]

Just now, Vacuum said:

Why not just report the TM30 the same day you apply for your extension and accept the 800-1600 fine.

I do  not have never  done one my  current  plan is to  just pay the fine and if travelling only stay where my details are not required by either  using the Wifes  name when  booking or staying illegally in unregistered  places with the very small chance of capture.

Facial recognition however  will make that redundant in time and they will see Ive left an area.

Ill  move to a town thats split between two provinces and revert daily as i walk over the road back and forth to  immigration to let them know Ive been over the road to buy a paper etc

[tandor]

4 minutes ago, logres212 said:

Maybe an ankle bracelet would be easier... ????

my thoughts exactly..perhaps a yellow wrist bracelet ala the rubber ones for merit making with a chip embedded..oh then a Stat Dec by a witness to say you took it off for a shower and replaced it later.

[tandor]

Just now, Chazar said:

I do  not have never  done one my  current  plan is to  just pay the fine and if travelling only stay where my details are not required by either  using the Wifes  name when  booking or staying illegally in unregistered  places with the very small chance of capture.

Facial recognition however  will make that redundant in time and they will see Ive left an area.

Ill  move to a town thats split between two provinces and revert daily as i walk over the road back and forth to  immigration to let them know Ive been over the road to buy a paper etc

you will be ok...you only have a Purple 'C' to identify you by!

[aussienam]

Owners of condos who are overseas who have tenants that come and go and fail to lodge TM30 forms is also a dilemma. 

Registering online has been an exercise in futility with the website never working and confusing.  What do owners do in this situation? 

Also, the 24 hour reporting every time you leave the province and stay elsewhere means you need to find an immigration office if not staying in a guesthouse or hotel (and even then you just need to hope they do the right thing).

Then there are often the horrific queues.  It hardly ever is a quick process unless you are able to get in very early ahead of the queue.  Been in Chonburi IO for 2 hours before and often an hour just to report.  Almost fainted from heat exhaustion.  Scuffles and arguments break out as tempers flare.  Seen it several times. Seen others just give up and leave. Is a massive disincentive to travel about frequently. 

Hopefully the system will at least be streamlined.  Maybe a scan and go process? Face recognition? 

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by aussienam

[Chazar]

3 hours ago, Isaanlawyers said:

You wanna help, sign at www.reform-thai-immigration.com

 

Only 6,000 signatures. DO NOT BE AFRAID. No names given to immigration. Making noise and showing that it is not efficient, undated, bureaucratic, unnecessary is the way to go.

 

According to our internal survey, it is continues, 25% of expats in Isaan will leave Thailand. That's more than 2 billion baht in income for the area.

Anymore updates from officialdom yet? apart from the toe the line mindset

[jamesbbkk]

6 hours ago, GraThai said:

I totally agree that TM30 is an outdated law however I have lived here in Thailand for 30+  years and try to abide by all the rules including this one. Every time I return home from a trip she fills in the form pops into immigration and its done so what is the massive problem...unless of course people have something to hide?????

We were told that one time does it. No need to redo after each trip.

[SuwadeeS]

I hope all the nations understand and do post a travel warning online.

This government behaves more fascist than Hitler's Nazi regime. Immigration is similar to the "Stasi" (Secret Service spying on anybody) of former East Germany

[TSF]

15 minutes ago, SuwadeeS said:

I hope that all foreigner start to complain to their embassies.

Further, as a matter of fact, it is a discrimination of foreigners!!!!!!!!!

Thais never fill any form, when moving around in Thailand.

They are only registered at there blue house book location.

 

It really need to be done something about all these discrimination for foreigners.

I would guess, it will be a good idea when all the foreigners publish and post their negative 

experiences online.

So this country might lose there last tourists and foreigners to Vietnam etc.

Embassies don't care, our govs & embassies don't want us living in foreign countries, frequently making work for them...they want us back in our own countries, working and paying taxes. Try complaining to your embassy and they'll say...we'll you don't have to be here, if you don't like it that much go back to your own country.

[Jumbo1968]

As long as the TM30 does not affect the minority of people in Thailand who have control of the majority of the money in Thailand nowt will change.

[Eligius]

13 minutes ago, Globe Trotter said:

I was speaking to a friend about this today. Most people either do not see it or they simply don't care. The reason to both of these mindsets is because it has been carried out at a very slow pace. Tracking and surveillance tech has gotten more and more close to the human body, starting with the home computer that is of course stationary, to a laptop, to a smartphone, Google Glasses and the Apple iWatch thing. The next part of this process (which some people have already gone for) is to have tech inside of the body, which has been the agenda all along. 

People trade their privacy for sheer convenience and laziness. It's no secret that huge entities can tune into your phone cameras and listen to your microphones whenever they want, and even Smart TVs giving access to the camera when it's on standby mode. 

Think back a few decades ago, there were not even such things as passports or visas. People travelled freely around the world and hopped onto planes much like we do with buses. Now people have passports as a legal requirement, and you need to give up your fingerprint to cross into many countries. Again, this has all been done at a slow pace as to not shock or scare people. Some wonder, why is it even an issue.. I'm not doing anything 'wrong'?? That isn't the point, as human beings we should have the right to have a free and private life. What's ahead in the next 20-40 years is a whole lot worse than anything you'd find in a George Orwell novel. 

If only more people had your level of discernment, Globe Trotter (in your superb post above). The sheep will go along with all the constrictions of their liberty - eagerly and encouraging each other to follow suit - to their own doom and destruction - and will say to us who question what is being implemented world-wide: 'If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to fear'. As the great Aldous Huxley stated: People will be trained 'to love their servitude'. That slavish, masochistic mentality is here - alive and well - or rather, sick and abysmally pathetic.

 

May God preserve us all !

[bowerboy]

2 hours ago, looplaw said:

I agree. What's the big deal? If you have a problem with Thai Immigration requirements , go somewhere else. This is not our country. We should be great full  they let us stay here long term in the first place.

 

You pathetic little sissy boy......give this dog a treat.

[lkv]

9 minutes ago, jamesbbkk said:

We were told that one time does it. No need to redo after each trip.

The law says every time.

 

The IO is encouraging you to break the law, and you will be liable for the subsequent fines. And they will be written by the hand of the same smiley IO.

 

On a second thought, they might ask a colleague to do it, to save face.

Edited August 29, 2019 by lkv

[Chazar]

2 minutes ago, TSF said:

Embassies don't care, our govs & embassies don't want us living in foreign countries, frequently making work for them

Well my govt does want me out so i cant claim from the health service when Im older, they also plan to freeze  my 32years of pension payments on retirement in Thailand , they also increased pension age to 67 and are  looking at 75 yrs  old I would  not be surprised if they abolished pensions for expats.

Any "work here" for them they charge a hefty fee unless  your banged up in jail

[kentrot]

Step by little step - this government is making it harder,  and then harder again,  for those of us who do so much good for the Kingdom. We raise the standard of living for our Thai families (all levels), promote higher education for our Thai kids, support local businesses - not just hotels and tourist traps frequented by the hoards of "unwashed" - but pharmacies, grocery stores, gas stations and mechanics, letter carriers, handy men, home improvement stores, hospitals, etc.,  etc.,  etc.  ------------------

With these added restrictions and demands it has become ------->  "Guilty until proven innocent .."  I feel like we have entered into the steps described in this poem:

* First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist ......
* Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist ....
* Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist .....
* Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew .....
* Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me  ....... 

 

(1946 by the German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller)

[Chazar]

4 minutes ago, Eligius said:

If only more people had your level of discernment, Globe Trotter (in your superb post above). The sheep will go along with all the constrictions of their liberty - eagerly and encouraging each other to follow suit - to their own doom and destruction - and will say to us who question what is being implemented world-wide: 'If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to fear'. As the great Aldous Huxley stated: People will be trained 'to love their servitude'. That slavish, masochistic mentality is here - alive and well - or rather, sick and abysmally pathetic.

 

May God preserve us all !

It  all sounded good  until  that last  line.

[puchooay]

44 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

You dont travel around Thailand frequently.  If a biker takes a trip for a day or two every week he will have to make frequent illogical trips to the IO. The requirement has not been necessary in the last 30 years and its not necessary now. I travel frequently around Thailand from my base in Pattaya.  Many small guesthouses,  resorts,  AirBnB, do not bother with TM30 leaving me with a gap to explain which might get people intk trouble. The TM30 comes from an era of fighting armed communist insurgency and was introduced by a government that burned demonstrators alive. The TM30 is totalitarian and authoritarian.

No. If you stay at places that don't register you then no need to register when you return. No one knows you have been gone. No evidence no gaps.

[Dice Man]

6 hours ago, puchooay said:

You are going to sell your bike because a TM30 must be completed upon your return to your registered address? Really? Get online and register. It is very simple.

 

This whole TM30 saga has been blown totally out of proportion.

yu are not in the REAL Thailand

[hotchilli]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

Since arriving in Thailand in April, she has racked up immigration fines totalling 12,400 baht (£330). A large part of that is because her apartment manager failed to promptly file a form saying where she was staying.

So why has she paid the fine... the apartment manager is the guilty party ?