LIVE STREAM: TM30 and how it will impact the lives fo expats in Thailand

[ASEAN NOW Sales]

 

All that matters - In Thailand

 

Tonight's stream is all about the TM30 and how it will impact the lives of expats in Thailand

 

[My 2 cents]

How to do if someone sleeps in 4 or 5 different places per week ? in different provinces as well ?
As per example tonight i sleep in Bangkok, tomorrow i have a seminar, tomorrow evening i visit my company in petchabury, then one day later back in Nakhon Pathom for 1 night, then travel to my home in Nong Khai and after the weekend return to Nakhom pathum , Petchabury , Lampang, Phrao, and so on...

Edited August 29, 2019 by My 2 cents

[billshuey]

We will be travelling less in Thailand because of this requirement.

[csmith]

Where do we find the archive of the session .… only just arrived home as it finished

[jackdd]

11 minutes ago, My 2 cents said:

How to do if someone sleeps in 4 or 5 different places per week ? in different provinces as well ?
As per example tonight i sleep in Bangkok, tomorrow i have a seminar, tomorrow evening i visit my company in petchabury, then one day later back in Nakhon Pathom for 1 night, then travel to my home in Nong Khai and after the weekend return to Nakhom pathum , Petchabury , Lampang, Phrao, and so on...

The hotels report you, nothing to do by you.

Only if you go to a place where you are the owner / housemaster / possessor you have to report yourself.

Edited August 29, 2019 by jackdd

[pmh2009]

Just face the truth & reality!!!!!! they do not want any foreigners here in Thailand!!! White, Brown, Black or Yellow --- they---Thailand only want for a short period!!!! foreigners who will come to spend ALL their money!!!! OK Don't cry, whine or complain!!! I am not a Thai but face facts;  America, Italy, Britain with their Brexit and other EU etc.... countries do not want foreigners, rich or not!!!! Even in Brasil they killing their own true natives!!!! It is just like 1935!!! before Fascism took over!!!! We are at that stage!!! Best thing if you can't tolerate or bow your head to the new crackdowns (the laws were there except no one enforced it) go back to your home country!!! 

 

It is tiring and boring to see these whining, complaints blah blah blah !!!! Either you get with it or GO BACK to your home country where your own people, culture and laws are!!!! OKAY??????????????

[MartinKal]

22 minutes ago, pmh2009 said:

Just face the truth & reality!!!!!! they do not want any foreigners here in Thailand!!! White, Brown, Black or Yellow --- they---Thailand only want for a short period!!!! foreigners who will come to spend ALL their money!!!! OK Don't cry, whine or complain!!! I am not a Thai but face facts;  America, Italy, Britain with their Brexit and other EU etc.... countries do not want foreigners, rich or not!!!! Even in Brasil they killing their own true natives!!!! It is just like 1935!!! before Fascism took over!!!! We are at that stage!!! Best thing if you can't tolerate or bow your head to the new crackdowns (the laws were there except no one enforced it) go back to your home country!!! 

 

It is tiring and boring to see these whining, complaints blah blah blah !!!! Either you get with it or GO BACK to your home country where your own people, culture and laws are!!!! OKAY??????????????

Pmh methinks you have lost all your spirit

[jackdd]

Deemoney should have paid more attention to finding somebody who does the technical part properly instead of just trying to put their logo at as many places as possible, then it would be more appealing to watch.

Finding a proper room which doesn't have so much echo, use proper microphones, use a filter to reduce the noise in the audio, and the easiest to solve mistake: Change the frames per second in the camera from 60/30 (ntsc) to 50/25 (pal), then the light / image would not flicker.

 

I didn't watch it completely because i got annoyed by the poor sound quality, but one section which i watched:

They said that immigration might fine the foreigner if the owner / housemaster / possessor didn't do the TM30 and that this is a grey area.

How is fining the foreigner (if he isn't in a position which makes him responsible), because the landlord failed to do something, and refusing to process his extension if he doesn't pay, a "grey area"? This is outright extortion, and the IO is probably breaking several laws by doing this. So it would have been interesting to know if a foreigner has any legal options which might work. Because filing a police report against the IO will probably not work.

Edited August 29, 2019 by jackdd

[timendres]

4 minutes ago, jackdd said:

I didn't watch it completely because i got annoyed by the poor sound quality, but one section which i watched:

They said that immigration might fine the foreigner if the owner / housemaster / possessor didn't do the TM30 and that this is a grey area.

How is fining the foreigner (if he isn't in a position which makes him responsible), because the landlord failed to do something, and refusing to process his extension if he doesn't pay, a "grey area"? This is outright extortion, and the IO is probably breaking several laws by doing this. So it would have been interesting to know if a foreigner has any legal options which might work. Because filing a police report against the IO will probably not work.

Further evidence of the true purpose behind the new enforcement of the TM30, and justification for merely optimizing your convenience/cost formula. No need for drama.

[jollyhangmon]

1 hour ago, pmh2009 said:

Just face the truth & reality!!!!!! they do not want any foreigners here in Thailand!!! White, Brown, Black or Yellow --- they---Thailand only want for a short period!!!! foreigners who will come to spend ALL their money!!!! OK Don't cry, whine or complain!!! I am not a Thai but face facts;  America, Italy, Britain with their Brexit and other EU etc.... countries do not want foreigners, rich or not!!!! Even in Brasil they killing their own true natives!!!! It is just like 1935!!! before Fascism took over!!!! We are at that stage!!! Best thing if you can't tolerate or bow your head to the new crackdowns (the laws were there except no one enforced it) go back to your home country!!! 

 

It is tiring and boring to see these whining, complaints blah blah blah !!!! Either you get with it or GO BACK to your home country where your own people, culture and laws are!!!! OKAY??????????????

 

 

... ... seeing you're definitely not taking your psychomeds ... can I have them ...????????????????????????? !

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by jollyhangmon

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Not impressed by these guys in the least...

 

They're saying the landlords are responsible for the fines for non-filing, and they've "heard" that expats are being fined by "some" officers.

 

How about, expats/renters are being fined by Thai Immigration for non-filing of TM30s in VASTLY greater number than the puny numbers of Thai landlords/owners being fined for non-compliance.

 

Thai Immigration has no time or interest to go out hunting down huge numbers of Thai property and lodging operators. But with expats, they have them coming right to their desks at least once a year and easy to fine at that point under penalty of refusing their new extension.

 

In all the many TM30 threads here, I haven't heard ONE report of an expat going to Immigration, being told or finding out they don't have a valid TM30, and then Immigration's response being, "Ohh... Well then, I guess we're going to have to go out and track down your landlord and fine them! Meanwhile, let's take care of your new extension of stay."   

 

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

At 15:30, they're saying Thai Immigration has backtracked on the subject of expat condo owner reporting. According to these guys, after originally saying expat condo owners would not have to TM30 report themselves, these guys are saying Immigration is now saying yes, expat condo owners, must report arriving/staying at their own property.

 

[4675636b596f75]

3 hours ago, timendres said:

How is fining the foreigner (if he isn't in a position which makes him responsible), because the landlord failed to do something, and refusing to process his extension if he doesn't pay, a "grey area"? This is outright extortion

That's right, you took the words right out of my fingers.

[4675636b596f75]

I watched it.  I needed a good clean scrub after watching.  I felt a little dirty, a bit violated.  

 

So the TM30 is the responsibility of the landlord, but as these LAWYERS say, it will be addressed for you, that you comply with all laws while in Thailand.  That is double-speak.  It's the landlord's responsibility but YOU the foreigner are going to be judged as not following the law when the law doesn't apply to you.

 

They said it with a straight face.  I almost  wrote they said this without blinking, but that is out the window.

Edited August 29, 2019 by 4675636b596f75

[NCC1701A]

was there a heads up on this?

[4675636b596f75]

3 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

was there a heads up on this?

You had three talking heads up there, how many did you want?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

was there a heads up on this?

 

I didn't see or catch it... I just came across this thread after the fact....

[NCC1701A]

Immigration says TM30 is very easy.

 

That is why two attorneys are completely lost trying to interpret the law for others.

 

 

[legend49]

11 hours ago, billshuey said:

We will be travelling less in Thailand because of this requirement.

Travel in our household will be only outside Thailand to regain some happiness.

[wgdanson]

12 hours ago, jackdd said:

The hotels report you, nothing to do by you.

Only if you go to a place where you are the owner / housemaster / possessor you have to report yourself.

When you get back to your home in Nang Kai on a Friday after a gruelling week's work, you or your missis must go to local IO before Saturady evening to report you back, or do it online. P I T A.

[Moti24]

If I visit my in-laws in the north east, my f-i-l will have a 160km round trip to the immigration office; he won't be able to do that, so that means I'll have to go.  Before anybody tells me that I can present my TM30 at a local police office, forget it; they don't even know what day it is, half the time.  Then, on return to my home, I'll have another 40km round trip to the immigration office.   It ain't going to happen!

 

Thailand doesn't want expats, they want only the money.  After 15 years here, 10 of those paying an annual tax bill, they've had enough of my money.  I doubt that I'll renew my visa extension next year, and I don't have a problem with that; I'll just join the hundreds of expats already left; I already feel better, just thinking about it.

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, Moti24 said:

If I visit my in-laws in the north east, my f-i-l will have a 160km round trip to the immigration office; he won't be able to do that, so that means I'll have to go. 

Why bother, will you need to visit immigration up there or will somebody report your father in law to the authorities. If I go to the wife's village in Bahn Khee Kwai I have no intention of doing a TM30 there, nor when I return, as immigration will know nothing of it. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by jacko45k

[Peterw42]

6 minutes ago, Moti24 said:

If I visit my in-laws in the north east, my f-i-l will have a 160km round trip to the immigration office; he won't be able to do that, so that means I'll have to go.  Before anybody tells me that I can present my TM30 at a local police office, forget it; they don't even know what day it is, half the time.  Then, on return to my home, I'll have another 40km round trip to the immigration office.   It ain't going to happen!

 

Thailand doesn't want expats, they want only the money.  After 15 years here, 10 of those paying an annual tax bill, they've had enough of my money.  I doubt that I'll renew my visa extension next year, and I don't have a problem with that; I'll just join the hundreds of expats already left; I already feel better, just thinking about it.

Will you be visiting immigration at FILs house ?  There is no need to do the report at FIL house, nobody will ask for a report or be aware you traveled there. And since you wont be lodging a report at FILs, there will be no need to re-report when you get back.

[mtls2005]

13 hours ago, jackdd said:

The hotels report you, nothing to do by you.

Only if you go to a place where you are the owner / housemaster / possessor you have to report yourself.

 

Actually, My 2 cents query is certainly causing consternation with big and small companies here. Some have been briefed by Immigration saying that each and every movement must be reported within 24 hours. If a hotel happens to report someone, that's fine - as long as you file a TM30 when you return to your primary domicile. If they don't, the individual/company is responsible. If they stay in the home of a local work colleague, that colleague/company is responsible. If they stay in company housing, then the company is responsible.

 

So it's a bit more than a binary solution.

 

Companies are evaluating their exposure and options. They are considering hiring staff to manage the reporting process.

 

The fact that this is, for the most part, just a charade that's gotten out of hand - no criminals will be found to have filed a TM30, or if they did, they will no longer be at that address - and cannot be walked back without a serious loss of face. If anything, Immigration will crack down, conducting raids, sweeps and seeking donations  tips fines.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by mtls2005

[Moti24]

33 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Why bother, will you need to visit immigration up there or will somebody report your father in law to the authorities. If I go to the wife's village in Bahn Khee Kwai I have no intention of doing a TM30 there, nor when I return, as immigration will know nothing of it. 

You're quite right.  But, my post was aimed at the law, as it stands; a ridiculous law, and just the tip of the iceberg.

 

You need to watch where you are walking when visiting Bahn Khee Kwai.

[Moti24]

31 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Will you be visiting immigration at FILs house ?  There is no need to do the report at FIL house, nobody will ask for a report or be aware you traveled there. And since you wont be lodging a report at FILs, there will be no need to re-report when you get back.

Thank you for stating the obvious.  I've already replied to a similar post.

[4MyEgo]

47 minutes ago, Moti24 said:

If I visit my in-laws in the north east, my f-i-l will have a 160km round trip to the immigration office; he won't be able to do that, so that means I'll have to go.  Before anybody tells me that I can present my TM30 at a local police office, forget it; they don't even know what day it is, half the time.  Then, on return to my home, I'll have another 40km round trip to the immigration office.   It ain't going to happen!

 

Thailand doesn't want expats, they want only the money.  After 15 years here, 10 of those paying an annual tax bill, they've had enough of my money.  I doubt that I'll renew my visa extension next year, and I don't have a problem with that; I'll just join the hundreds of expats already left; I already feel better, just thinking about it.

I think far too many expats have got their knickers in a knot as I did previously when I heard all about this TM30, more paperwork, invasion of privacy etc etc etc, suffice to say, I was ready to leave, that said, I calmed down several times after reading more and more on this and visiting the immigration office on a Tuesday, an hour 20 up the road and after that visit, allowing the paranoia to disappear and letting go of my privacy issues, here in the LOS, otherwise forget it, might as well leave, but weighing up the goods Vs the bads and I am staying, well for now at least as it's pretty much a 60/40 split, LOS favour at the moment ????

 

Background in short:

 

Went to immigration on a Tuesday, as I said above, an hour 20 up the road, did my 90 day reporting and spoke with the boys at immigration, I mentioned that I was going to Chiang Mai on Friday, an 11 hour drive each way and wouldn't be back until Sunday night and enquired about this ancient TM30 rule that was raising its ugly head with us expats, and asked; do I need to come back to you within 24 hours after returning to my province as the hotel would do the TM30 at Chiang Mai, his reply was; your wife the Landlord must come and report that you have returned, please get her to go online and apply for a password, so when she gets it, all future reporting can be done online so you don't have to drive all the way here, she did just that, the following Monday morning after returning from Chiang Mai, we drove to the immigration office, yeh, I was pretty knackered, and the wife did the TM30, the wife advised the IO that she applied online for the password, he had a look online and saw her request, and gave her a password, he said try that, she did that on the spot with her mobile, password didn't work, so he said he would look into it, and by Monday she had a password in her inbox, logged in, no problem, so all future TM30 reporting will be done online, e.g. we are overseas in 5 weeks, when we return we will be staying at another province for a week, and all we have to do is go online when we go back to our province....easy !

 

The above said, it isn't that hard, we can take it on board, give them what they want, for whatever reasons they want it and go about or merry ways, or remain angry, huff and puff, but we will only be hurting ourselves, or we could not travel domestically or move to another country, and their response would be, "up to you", just remember this, the world is changing, facial recognition is here, I mean what do you think these guys discuss at G20's, economics, or how they are slowly they are going to collect data to keep tabs on their sheep around the world.......

 

I will also leave you with this thought, if they didn't want us here, why don't they just say, no more extensions from such and such a date, e.g. giving us all time to relocate to another country, history has shown this to be the case, I know my mum had to exit Egypt a long times ago, because everyone was told they had to get out, Greeks, Italians and the like, who had been there for a long time.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[Puchaiyank]

I came to Thailand to escape the rigors of living in a country where the government wants to control peoples lives.

 

Once here, Thailand has become one of the most oppressive governments on earth in regards to wanting to control and track the movements of their legal paying guests...

 

What seems to be your problem with aliens who enter the country legally Thailand?  ????

 

 

[heiri007]

Perfect police state, that's all they're good at.

 

Have an arrest warrant outstanding for a Thai who cheated us, he keeps on working and doing his business, police just don't care.

 

Tens of thousands of arrest warrants pending in Thailand... and now they go after foreigners of whom they have all details.

 

Love the people, but the disrespect for the scumbags in power is at its maximum now.

 

Imagine their crying out loud if they're treated with double pricing, racism and police-state actions somewhere abroad.

 

While looking at them I <deleted> at them.

 

Oh, and had my citizenship application pending for years. Following up they let me know it costs two Rolex watches.

 

That's their thanks for having family here, pay taxes, trying to be a nice citizen.

Edited August 30, 2019 by heiri007

[Orton Rd]

9 hours ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

I watched it.  I needed a good clean scrub after watching.  I felt a little dirty, a bit violated.  

 

So the TM30 is the responsibility of the landlord, but as these LAWYERS say, it will be addressed for you, that you comply with all laws while in Thailand.  That is double-speak.  It's the landlord's responsibility but YOU the foreigner are going to be judged as not following the law when the law doesn't apply to you.

 

They said it with a straight face.  I almost  wrote they said this without blinking, but that is out the window.

My immigration office says nothing about landlords or property owners, they have said for two years it is the foreigners responsibility to report. This is stamped on 90 day receipts as a reminder